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That would have been much better orks vs cadians w a GSC upgrade sprue. Gives you 3 different potential factions and more fluffy for an armaggedon set. Regardless people will complain.

What we can infer from the roster is that models probably simply level up after every 3 missions instead of counting XP.

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:

Hardly.. If you compare it to board games this is basically DOA at 130$. You can get many high quality games for 60-80$ that come with objectively more useful models than old scouts and ork boys. If you think the terrain alone is worth 130$ then go for it? However, the models listed have virtually 0 value on the market.

Of course you can.
What you're missing is "made by GW". Remember that for many people on dakka, this is the most important part.

#sigh

Maybe because GW are the ones, that produce 40k products with minis and noone else? Maybe because their kits are customizable and other board games don`t have that? And what are those "more useful models" exactly?
GW products are easier to get, more people are into games sold by them due to that (among other reasons), and as an overall package people find more value in their products?

So "made by GW" holds those qualities behind it, it`s not just a Lacoste croc.

Note, that I didn`t say anything about price or rules GW puts out (like they are leaders in these aspects), so you can save your occusations of me being a fanboy

This isn't intended to compete with board games, but be another entry point into 40K (and another way to get existing players to buy more stuff).

 lord_blackfang wrote:
What we can infer from the roster is that models probably simply level up after every 3 missions instead of counting XP.

I severely hope that is just a print out for trial games and the proper system will have full xp. If not, then I suspect many will just use the a full xp system ported from Necromunda.

Alendrel wrote:


This isn't intended to compete with board games, but be another entry point into 40K (and another way to get existing players to buy more stuff).

That is strongly debatable, as it has clearly 2nd ed/Necromunda ruleset (range modifiers and variable damage on those rooster sheets further confirm that), which is so vastly different from 7th ed 40K, that even veteran post-3rd ed players will have to relearn A LOT.

I see this release more as a nod to people who like 40K setting, but will never hook up so much, that they'll be willing to spend thousands of dollars for full armies. Having Shadow War box you can just buy a squad of new faction minis per year to refresh your experience with it.

nou wrote:

Alendrel wrote:


This isn't intended to compete with board games, but be another entry point into 40K (and another way to get existing players to buy more stuff).

That is strongly debatable, as it has clearly 2nd ed/Necromunda ruleset (range modifiers and variable damage on those rooster sheets further confirm that), which is so vastly different from 7th ed 40K, that even veteran post-3rd ed players will have to relearn A LOT.

I see this release more as a nod to people who like 40K setting, but will never hook up so much, that they'll be willing to spend thousands of dollars for full armies. Having Shadow War box you can just buy a squad of new faction minis per year to refresh your experience with it.

The latter is what I meant, 40K as "greater hobby" versus "Warhammer 40,000 the full-size wargame." It looks like the tack GW is setting up is having each IP and model range support multiple games. I fully expect the next edition of 40K to be "WH40K: Blahdeeblah" to show it's just another game in the broader range of "games to use our models with".

Joyboozer wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

If they brought out a new game called 'Necromunda' I'd jump for joy. What is so fething difficult about that to understand?

Let's just clear this up once and for all. They're releasing a game that seems to be an updated Necromunda in everything but name and fluff and that's no good. The original Necromunda that you already own at home is also no good, because it's not in print. What you want is for GW to sell you an exact reprint of what you already own with a new copyright date on it?

I see you've met the nostalgia brigade.

Blood Bowl says hello to its little friend, ignorance.

Funny you should mention BB because as of the end of the League GW just ran it's now a dead system again in my local area. Anecdotal I know but both stores and the local club have seen play drop off a cliff.
Nostalgia and rose tinted hype from the crusties got a lot of the young blood in after one demo game, playing a full league with nearly 3 decade old rules which were vastly overrated in the first place got 99% of them back out with the crusties hoovering up cheap plastic.
Seriously all 3 venues hadl to cancel planned leagues due to non interest and could not even scrape the players together for tournamens.
One of the.outgoing players stated "it makes AoS look like a good game"

Basicly I think they have blown there nostalgia load early and any other "classics" may now strugle. BB always struck me as a strange one to launch with as while there is a vocal fan base it is small and the actual core mechanics have aged probably the worst out of most of the successful boxed games. Mordheim/Necromunda probably made the most sense as while a bit clunky they stll have wfb/40k DNA that people would recognise oh and there fun.

I am very happy to see that scenery appears to be the same high quality as Void Shield Generator, Promethium Relay Pipes and Haemotrope Reactors. I am definitely getting a box or three.

Deathworld Forest were fun designs but they take forever to clean up. Two seasons of Family Guy and I'm not even halfway through.

SeanDrake wrote:

Spoiler:

Joyboozer wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

If they brought out a new game called 'Necromunda' I'd jump for joy. What is so fething difficult about that to understand?

Let's just clear this up once and for all. They're releasing a game that seems to be an updated Necromunda in everything but name and fluff and that's no good. The original Necromunda that you already own at home is also no good, because it's not in print. What you want is for GW to sell you an exact reprint of what you already own with a new copyright date on it?

I see you've met the nostalgia brigade.

Blood Bowl says hello to its little friend, ignorance.

Funny you should mention BB because as of the end of the League GW just ran it's now a dead system again in my local area. Anecdotal I know but both stores and the local club have seen play drop off a cliff.
Nostalgia and rose tinted hype from the crusties got a lot of the young blood in after one demo game, playing a full league with nearly 3 decade old rules which were vastly overrated in the first place got 99% of them back out with the crusties hoovering up cheap plastic.
Seriously all 3 venues hadl to cancel planned leagues due to non interest and could not even scrape the players together for tournamens.
One of the.outgoing players stated "it makes AoS look like a good game"

Basicly I think they have blown there nostalgia load early and any other "classics" may now strugle. BB always struck me as a strange one to launch with as while there is a vocal fan base it is small and the actual core mechanics have aged probably the worst out of most of the successful boxed games. Mordheim/Necromunda probably made the most sense as while a bit clunky they stll have wfb/40k DNA that people would recognise oh and there fun.

Same thing happened here in my town. Local stores sold 20+ copies, lots of attendance and excitement for two weeks, then everybody ditched the game and went back to AoS and 40K.

It's a shame, but times change, as do the metrics for enjoyment.

SeanDrake wrote:
Funny you should mention BB because as of the end of the League GW just ran it's now a dead system again in my local area. Anecdotal I know but both stores and the local club have seen play drop off a cliff.
Nostalgia and rose tinted hype from the crusties got a lot of the young blood in after one demo game, playing a full league with nearly 3 decade old rules which were vastly overrated in the first place got 99% of them back out with the crusties hoovering up cheap plastic.
Seriously all 3 venues hadl to cancel planned leagues due to non interest and could not even scrape the players together for tournamens.
One of the.outgoing players stated "it makes AoS look like a good game"

Basicly I think they have blown there nostalgia load early and any other "classics" may now strugle. BB always struck me as a strange one to launch with as while there is a vocal fan base it is small and the actual core mechanics have aged probably the worst out of most of the successful boxed games. Mordheim/Necromunda probably made the most sense as while a bit clunky they stll have wfb/40k DNA that people would recognise oh and there fun.

Sounds more like they flooded the scene with too much Blood Bowl, while I love the game a once a week game would be the most I do for it

SeanDrake wrote:

Joyboozer wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

If they brought out a new game called 'Necromunda' I'd jump for joy. What is so fething difficult about that to understand?

Let's just clear this up once and for all. They're releasing a game that seems to be an updated Necromunda in everything but name and fluff and that's no good. The original Necromunda that you already own at home is also no good, because it's not in print. What you want is for GW to sell you an exact reprint of what you already own with a new copyright date on it?

I see you've met the nostalgia brigade.

Blood Bowl says hello to its little friend, ignorance.

Funny you should mention BB because as of the end of the League GW just ran it's now a dead system again in my local area. Anecdotal I know but both stores and the local club have seen play drop off a cliff.
Nostalgia and rose tinted hype from the crusties got a lot of the young blood in after one demo game, playing a full league with nearly 3 decade old rules which were vastly overrated in the first place got 99% of them back out with the crusties hoovering up cheap plastic.
Seriously all 3 venues hadl to cancel planned leagues due to non interest and could not even scrape the players together for tournamens.
One of the.outgoing players stated "it makes AoS look like a good game"

Basicly I think they have blown there nostalgia load early and any other "classics" may now strugle. BB always struck me as a strange one to launch with as while there is a vocal fan base it is small and the actual core mechanics have aged probably the worst out of most of the successful boxed games. Mordheim/Necromunda probably made the most sense as while a bit clunky they stll have wfb/40k DNA that people would recognise oh and there fun.

Funnily enough my LGS has gone even harder at it. Like, seriously, during the leage you could say a third of the tables were BB. This week? I've checked out and: 54% of the tables are bloodbow-reserved..

And this is a store that has very strong and active 40k, AoS and Malifaux communities. People are going crazy at it, I guess part of it is also due to the desilusion of the 40k crowd and that the infinity and Flames of War groups are kind of burnt after the regional tournaments (cannot blame the infinity guys, they got a thorough spanking), they play it quite often (the most of all).

Yeah, it's almost as if anecdotal evidence isn't.

*ahem*

Anyway, that platform has some pretty impressive detail. I wonder if it will be possible to do multi-level terrain with it (as right now it's just one level - very high!). Either way, it does look fantastic. I hope they release it and things similar/compatible with it very soon.

Interesting there is no points/credits cost on the ork sheet, wonder how detailed the inbetween mission stuff will be?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


Anyway, that platform has some pretty impressive detail. I wonder if it will be possible to do multi-level terrain with it (as right now it's just one level - very high!). Either way, it does look fantastic. I hope they release it and things similar/compatible with it very soon.

Doesn't look like it. The support pillars don't appear to have any gaps wide enough for models to fit through and the towers don't look stackable. I do hope they come out with some expansion parts that allow you to build a true multi-level hive. Be fantastic for 40k as well

The more I see, the more I froth.

So if Dwarfs would be April 1st, will Shadow War be available to preorder on the 25th of March? Or does GW consider this a late April release - any info from the people who attended Gama?

 zedmeister wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


Anyway, that platform has some pretty impressive detail. I wonder if it will be possible to do multi-level terrain with it (as right now it's just one level - very high!). Either way, it does look fantastic. I hope they release it and things similar/compatible with it very soon.

Doesn't look like it. The support pillars don't appear to have any gaps wide enough for models to fit through and the towers don't look stackable. I do hope they come out with some expansion parts that allow you to build a true multi-level hive. Be fantastic for 40k as well

I was hoping for this too - the video has a little time lapse thing showing various builds and there was no stacking in that at least.

I'm looking forward to getting my hands on it and seeing how it goes together with my cities of death Necromunda board

 Shuma-Gorath wrote:
Interesting there is no points/credits cost on the ork sheet, wonder how detailed the inbetween mission stuff will be?

Yep that surprised me as well. I really want to take peek in that rule book!

Other interesting bits -

Promethium Caches? Seemingly they replace territories

Orks get +1 on their attack rolls when they charge? That's not how Necromunda works, so a new hand to hand system?

I think it's a form of 'to hit' bonus.

In Necromunda and 2nd Ed, both players rolled dice equal to their attacks - highest roll won the fight, Initative deciding tied rolls.

So the Orks would add +1 to that combat roll?

I dunno. It's been ages since I played either game, so I could be misremembering?

Yup, you roll as many dice as you have attacks, add WS, add 1 for charging - other more niche modifiers - then you roll to wound as many times as you beat their score by.

A "to hit" roll sounds more like it is in modern 40k (and how it works in Mordheim if memory serves)

Vorian wrote:
Other interesting bits -

Promethium Caches? Seemingly they replace territories

If it's designed as a campaign-style game with 'missions', then it would make sense that you have some sort of home base/supply line aspect. Mightn't be a straight translation of Necromunda's territories/income, but something to fight over would make sense.

Vorian wrote:
Orks get +1 on their attack rolls when they charge? That's not how Necromunda works, so a new hand to hand system?

I hope so. I mean, as much as Necromunda was the perfect use of the 2nd Ed 40K rule set (which kinda fell apart at high points values, not to mention how long games would take) the HTH system wasn't the best. Good HTH fighters became impossible to beat, and it was possible to have no win situations against suitably beefed up opponents. It also made the Parry skill (and swords in general) far too crucial to winning combat.

If they've kept everything the same but changed the HTH system to something better, then I'm all for that.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
In Necromunda and 2nd Ed, both players rolled dice equal to their attacks - highest roll won the fight, Initative deciding tied rolls.

You're not misremembering. Each player would roll as many D6's as they had attacks, find their highest score, and add their Weapon Skill to it. If they charged, +1. For every 6 they rolled after the first, +1. For every 1 the opponent rolled, +1.

Compare scores, the difference = how many hits the winner got. Roll to wound, save, etc.

Initiative on draws. Proper draw on equal Initiative I think.

Made combat very decisive. You could win by considerable amounts (like Genestealers!!!), and get in tons of hits, practically guaranteeing an Out of Action result.

It was fine in one-on-one situations, and even worked with one-on-many situations because of the gang up rules (never get ganged up on by Genestealers!), but once you had 2-on-2 everything went to hell.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Vorian wrote:
Other interesting bits -

Promethium Caches? Seemingly they replace territories

If it's designed as a campaign-style game with 'missions', then it would make sense that you have some sort of home base/supply line aspect. Mightn't be a straight translation of Necromunda's territories/income, but something to fight over would make sense.

Vorian wrote:
Orks get +1 on their attack rolls when they charge? That's not how Necromunda works, so a new hand to hand system?

I hope so. I mean, as much as Necromunda was the perfect use of the 2nd Ed 40K rule set (which kinda fell apart at high points values, not to mention how long games would take) the HTH system wasn't the best. Good HTH fighters became impossible to beat, and it was possible to have no win situations against suitably beefed up opponents. It also made the Parry skill (and swords in general) far too crucial to winning combat.

If they've kept everything the same but changed the HTH system to something better, then I'm all for that.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
In Necromunda and 2nd Ed, both players rolled dice equal to their attacks - highest roll won the fight, Initative deciding tied rolls.

You're not misremembering. Each player would roll as many D6's as they had attacks, find their highest score, and add their Weapon Skill to it. If they charged, +1. For every 6 they rolled after the first, +1. For every 1 the opponent rolled, +1.

Compare scores, the difference = how many hits the winner got. Roll to wound, save, etc.

Initiative on draws. Proper draw on equal Initiative I think.

Made combat very decisive. You could win by considerable amounts (like Genestealers!!!), and get in tons of hits, practically guaranteeing an Out of Action result.

It was fine in one-on-one situations, and even worked with one-on-many situations because of the gang up rules (never get ganged up on by Genestealers!), but once you had 2-on-2 everything went to hell.

This +1 for Orks could be either +1 to Combat Score or +1 Attack Dice, rooster shows shorthand notation only...

And old HtH system was far better for one-on-one combat than modern "whoever is faster always wins" - this is why current Kill Team CC phase is a joke. But I agree, that fighting squad vs squad in 2nd ed with multiple base-to-base contacts was a real, lenghty pain.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

You're not misremembering. Each player would roll as many D6's as they had attacks, find their highest score, and add their Weapon Skill to it. If they charged, +1. For every 6 they rolled after the first, +1. For every 1 the opponent rolled, +1.

Compare scores, the difference = how many hits the winner got. Roll to wound, save, etc.

Initiative on draws. Proper draw on equal Initiative I think.

Made combat very decisive. You could win by considerable amounts (like Genestealers!!!), and get in tons of hits, practically guaranteeing an Out of Action result.

It was fine in one-on-one situations, and even worked with one-on-many situations because of the gang up rules (never get ganged up on by Genestealers!), but once you had 2-on-2 everything went to hell.

Don't forget Parry forcing an opponent to re-roll.

Ah, that reminds me of the good old 40k 2nd edition combat phase and a particular 3 way fight of howling banshees, chaos marines and a few daemons fighting it out. Took about 20 minutes to resolve that one but it pretty much decided the battle Good times.

2 on 2 is pretty rare though. Actually HtH itself is pretty rare because guns are king.

I agree though, I'd prefer a Mordheim system because there seems to be more you can do with it.

Edit @nou it's quite a strange way of phrasing it if they mean add 1 to your combat score (or dice), especially as charging did that anyway (and you'd say they gained an attack).

Vorian wrote:
2 on 2 is pretty rare though. Actually HtH itself is pretty rare because guns are king.

I agree though, I'd prefer a Mordheim system because there seems to be more you can do with it.

Edit @nou it's quite a strange way of phrasing it if they mean add 1 to your combat score (or dice), especially as charging did that anyway (and you'd say they gained an attack).

While we know that the ruleset might be exactly the same, just by changing credits to points we can safely assume, that names of rules and wording of rules may be totally different...

Yay for my memory!

Though had forgotten highest dice + WS bit.

Role play group I occasionally play with (commute limits options) are looking at running Necromunda soon - guess it's time for me to dig out Rico's Rednecks, my ever reliable Cawdor gang.

It occurs to me that these rules would give us the first official (or as official as one can get in 2017) 2nd Ed rules for Tau weaponry.

Indeed.

I think many players will be dreading the Breacher's Pulse Shotgun things?

nou wrote:

Vorian wrote:
2 on 2 is pretty rare though. Actually HtH itself is pretty rare because guns are king.

I agree though, I'd prefer a Mordheim system because there seems to be more you can do with it.

Edit @nou it's quite a strange way of phrasing it if they mean add 1 to your combat score (or dice), especially as charging did that anyway (and you'd say they gained an attack).

While we know that the ruleset might be exactly the same, just by changing credits to points we can safely assume, that names of rules and wording of rules may be totally different...

Sure, but "+1 to attack rolls in the turn they charge" still seems incompatible with the old mechanics.

We know there are still attacks, we know there is still a Str stat - if it was +1 to either of these you'd say +1 attack or +1 strength as they are defined things.

If it was a +1 to your combat score, they wouldn't call it a roll and they'd have to say "additional" +1

It just seems to suggest changes, that's all