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Now that supplements are a thing, it would make sense to make a Traitor Guard supplement for the Astra Militarum codex. They probably could use a tad more personalisation and bespoke rules than a random Imperial regiment, but should have most of the same base stuff than the normal Guard.

gungo wrote:
I mean it makes sense for GW to just combine deathriders and roughriders into 1 datasheet..

I don’t expect the same unit in 2 variants to exist in the future. I’ll be presently surprised though if they include dkok head options.

I do hope the unit that has the dkok keyword is the engineers or some form of combined grenediers/engineer kit..

I just really like the idea of shotgun and gas grenade veteran type deepstriking unit… give them hotshot lasguns option as well and a special mole launcher type weapon and I’ll be happy.

It couldn't be just Death Riders with a head swap without a stark unit redesign, which the art in kill team does not suggest it would be.

They'd need the rebreather unit, different legs, different torso's (4+ save carapace on death riders) different arms to go with the trench coat... Basically, would need whole new riders, and then the steeds are also different with clawed hooves and hairless bodies.

Unless the Attileans had a big redesign of their kit. Datasheet wise, maybe they could be combined with the different options?

If the Rough Rider rumour pans out, I'm expecting a box/kit that can build three (a la Serberys Raiders / Sulphurhounds).

An alternate build option could be included, but I can't imagine two very visually distinct regiments such as the Atillans and
DKOK in the same box. Standard horse body with plain head and gasmask head might work for the mount, but the riders..

Old-Four-Arms wrote:

If the Rough Rider rumour pans out, I'm expecting a box/kit that can build three (a la Serberys Raiders / Sulphurhounds).

An alternate build option could be included, but I can't imagine two very visually distinct regiments such as the Atillans and
DKOK in the same box. Standard horse body with plain head and gasmask head might work for the mount, but the riders..

I imagine it will be all models having long coats, with a Generic/Attilan torso front and head combo that has light armour, and a DKOK one with heavier armour and gas mask heads.

A sprue of horses and a sprue of riders? The sprue of riders changes between Rough Riders and Death Riders box. This kind of... thing, isn't completly alien to GW, they did it at least once with Stormcast heroes, that have an identical torso sprue but everything else is on another sprue that changes between boxes

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Lord-Veritant
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Stormcast-Eternals-Lord-Castellant

 Crimson wrote:
Now that supplements are a thing, it would make sense to make a Traitor Guard supplement for the Astra Militarum codex. They probably could use a tad more personalisation and bespoke rules than a random Imperial regiment, but should have most of the same base stuff than the normal Guard.

The could also do something like they did with the Belakor AoR and just allow them to pick up the cultist units from Codex: CSM.

 Crimson wrote:
Now that supplements are a thing,

Yeah... except supplements aren't really a thing. They're an 8th edition thing that had no momentum (beyond, oops, people care about Black Templars, might as well shovel that one out, too) and weren't done for any other faction but loyalist marines (chaos ones just got their options chopped- bye bye Crimson Slaughter, Purge, etc).
Someone out there claims we'll see them redone for the Loyalist 2.0 codex, but that still doesn't mean that any other army is going to be blessed/cursed by them.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I dont know why, but the feel I am getting from the pic is that it is inspired by the Churchill, with added sponsons.

Spoiler:

That was my immediate thought as well, before I'd even noticed the multimeltas. Looks like the guard have had some progression like the SM, they have now moved from WWI to WWII!

Old-Four-Arms wrote:

If the Rough Rider rumour pans out, I'm expecting a box/kit that can build three (a la Serberys Raiders / Sulphurhounds).

An alternate build option could be included, but I can't imagine two very visually distinct regiments such as the Atillans and
DKOK in the same box. Standard horse body with plain head and gasmask head might work for the mount, but the riders..

Why? The rumor (from a very reliable source) directly stated there are no DKoK rough riders/death riders in the kit.

It didn't say that.

It said there was not a Death Riders unit in the codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:
This chain came after the "there is a unit with the Krieg keyword in it":

Death Riders FTW!

Dual build kit with rough riders? Or just no rough riders at all?

Ok_Entrepreneur3004
2 points
·
1 day ago
Rough riders yes, death riders no

Then there was this, after that bit was settled:

Will there be attilan rough rider bits?

Ok_Entrepreneur3004
1 point
·
4 hours ago
Yup

I know there's a lot of potential conjecture, but the line of discussion points towards:

-There are not Death Riders in the codex. There are Rough Riders. There are Attillan Rough Rider bits in there, and there's also Death Korps Rough Rider parts.

Reddit makes some of this stuff a lot harder to follow, so maybe I'm just reading into it something which is not really there...but it does kind of jibe with what we've seen. Cadian Shock Troops are supposed to always have the Cadian keyword. It would make sense for Death Korps of Krieg Siege Troopers(or whatever) to have the same thing happen.

Add in the rumors of Grenadiers/Engineers, no confirmation on the Kasrkin being said to have their own datasheet(just that whatever they are is "restricted to 3, tops"), the rumored "Death Riders"(which might just have been Rough Riders from the get-go!) and it looks like they're adding some potential localized variants of things.

This is getting silly. He NEVER says there are Death Rider bits in the kit. In fact, he directly says that the kit does not build Death Riders.

To remove any doubt, heres the exchange on Reddit:



Its very clear that the other poster, ArynCrinn, assumed that Death Riders were the unit with the Krieg keyword and would be getting a kit. They asked if the supposed Death Rider kit would be dual build with Rough Riders. They were *NOT* as you theorized asking about Death Riders being in the Codex, and OK_E did *NOT* reply in a fashion that would be indicative of the presence of rules.

OK_E replied by clarifying "Rough Riders yes, Death Riders no" - meaning, "Its a Rough Riders kit, not a Death Riders kit".

The only bits or parts which OK_E confirmed the presence of at all are Attilan rough rider bits. Its unclear if that means that the Rough Riders are *only* Attilan or if they can be built as Attilan or Generic as some were speculating, etc. But what is clear is that at no point in this does he actually state anywhere that there are Death Rider parts in a forthcoming kit (if he does - please show me where because I went back through 6-9 months of his posts and found *NOTHING* to indicate that). In fact, if we go back far enough, we see another example of him clearly denying Death Rider miniatures exist - this is in response to the rumor engine image of what looks to be the tip of a hunting lance:



Note the exchange, Jazano107 asked "Krieg or regular". Ok_Entrepreneur replies "Attilan" - which is a mighty odd thing to say if the actual answer is "Krieg or Attilan", dont you think?

In short you're reading in a lot of information that is either unclear at best or is frankly not there at all. Stop.

*shrug*

We'll see in the end though, won't we? Maybe there's parts, maybe there's not.

Sure, maybe there are - but right now our most reliable rumor source on the topic seems to be indicating that there aren't based on the statements he's actually made.

Real question: why does anyone want plastic death riders? The current models are perfect already, why would anyone want a lower-detail plastic copy? Is price really that important?

Because they'd be readily available and not made of resin.

They'd also be more modular for the most part, and FW resin unfortunately is very inconsistent when it comes to warping/bubbles, not as bad as finecast, but it's not a great sign when recasters often do a better job of quality control.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Because they'd be readily available and not made of resin.

So, lower detail and subject to the same stock issues as any other GW product? Gotcha. Still don't see the appeal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:
They'd also be more modular for the most part, and FW resin unfortunately is very inconsistent when it comes to warping/bubbles, not as bad as finecast, but it's not a great sign when recasters often do a better job of quality control.

GW plastic also has major quality control issues. You get fewer warped parts but more mold lines and total cleanup time is about the same as FW resin. IMO the people who think plastic is easier are mostly the ones who carelessly tear parts off the sprue and glue them together as fast as possible with no attempt to make them look decent.

You seem to be caught in a vortex of time that puts you back 10-15 years ago when plastics weren't very detailed.

And like FW is any better with supply issues.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You seem to be caught in a vortex of time that puts you back 10-15 years ago when plastics weren't very detailed.

They aren't as detailed right now. Look at the plastic DKoK next to the FW originals and it's embarrassing how bad the plastic kit is. I have no idea why anyone would want to make a similar replacement with the death riders.

And like FW is any better with supply issues.

I never said it is, you're the one who claimed there's a difference in availability.

CadianSgtBob wrote:
Real question: why does anyone want plastic death riders? The current models are perfect already, why would anyone want a lower-detail plastic copy? Is price really that important?

Because it ensures my 20 deathriders stay legal and don’t go straight to legends death.. when GW decides to retire the resin kit because they have a new plastic cavalry they want to sell.
I mean I’ll just end up with attilan rough riders using my death korps of kreig models regardless but it just means they won’t benefit from any kreig traits either.

If you own the resin version and like it… why do you care if they make a plastic version. Odds are I’ll just buy 4-5 kreig rough riders and designate them as my command squad.

gungo wrote:
If you own the resin version and like it… why do you care if they make a plastic version.

Because GW has a nasty habit of letting older kits go OOP when they get a new resin version and I don't want to see the current ones disappear. But mostly I'm just baffled that people actually want these plastic kits for the sake of owning them, not just to preserve the rules for their FW collection.

CadianSgtBob wrote:
Real question: why does anyone want plastic death riders? The current models are perfect already, why would anyone want a lower-detail plastic copy? Is price really that important?

Because plastic is a superior medium for miniatures and doesn't cost ridiculous amounts for sub-standard products. Might as well ask why we don't want them in pewter.

 Scottywan82 wrote:
Because plastic is a superior medium for miniatures and doesn't cost ridiculous amounts for sub-standard products. Might as well ask why we don't want them in pewter.

It's a lower cost medium. It's inferior if you want detail quality instead of minimum cost. And if you're paying GW prices for plastic it's not like you're getting a cheap product anyway so why settle for lower quality?

Because then it would be even more expensive?
I don't think the quality is that much better to demand, what, double the price?

Also, isn't resin a lot lighter and more delicate? Or is that just finecast? I remember picking up a finecast model once and being surprised by how little it weighed. Not to mention all of those stories of the damned stuff being so fragile and prone to warping / holes.

Or does proper resin have some mass and durability behind it?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Because then it would be even more expensive?

At this point so what? It's not like we're getting $5 infantry squads or anything, if I'm paying $50 for a basic troops squad I'd rather pay $100 for a higher quality one. And I'd certainly rather see GW do something genuinely new and interesting instead of wasting a precious non-marine release slot on a lower quality ripoff of an existing kit. If I want cheap but poor quality there are plenty of third-party not-DKoK STLs available.

Also, isn't resin a lot lighter and more delicate? Or is that just finecast? I remember picking up a finecast model once and being surprised by how little it weighed. Not to mention all of those stories of the damned stuff being so fragile and prone to warping / holes.

Or does proper resin have some mass and durability behind it?

Yeah, Finecast is not resin. It's a weird pseudo-resin cast in molds that weren't designed for it, with the inevitable result of a 100% miscast rate and pieces that crumble or bend if you look at them too hard. Real resin like FW (and every other manufacturer) uses is slightly more fragile than plastic but it's not a problem unless you're really careless with your models. And I've certainly seen enough plastic kits with snapped off gun barrels/antennas/etc from careless handling.

I'm just saying, there would have be a pretty substantial increase in quality to demand 100 bucks for a set of basic troops.
I just don't see how that's possible or worth it.

If it were just like, I dunno, 10 dollars more, I'd understand that. But knowing GW, it would probably be something ridiculous.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I just don't see how that's possible or worth it.

Look at the plastic DKoK, some of GW's newest work, next to the 10-15 year old resin originals and that's how. The original kits make the plastic ones look like a lame third-party STL ripoff. Same thing for the FW LRBT variants vs. the GW plastic kit, FW hazardous environment Cadians vs. the plastic kit, etc, although those plastic kits at least have the excuse of being old and in desperate need of replacement. Resin just has way better detail and if I'm paying for a premium product anyway I want that highest level of quality.

I came here for Imperial Guard rumors, not one guy bitching about the quality of plastic kits.

There's only one person who thinks plastic is bad...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
There's only one person who thinks plastic is bad...

I mean there are a lot of people who think plastic has a lot of negatives for our environment.