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 ZergSmasher wrote:
I'm waiting for the book they recently announced before I truly get started with the game; I did already pick up a pretty good Orlock model collection from a friend. I just don't want to get their gang sourcebook (House of Iron?) only to have it invalidated within a couple of months.

Don't let these nitpicking doomsayers like Baxx there mislead you. The game is in a very good place.

Waiting for Outlands is still a good idea but House of Iron isn't going to be invalidated anytime soon.

Having Baxx actively shee-iting on the game is actually an external balance.

The game deserves constant scrutiny and blunt criticism. Anything that is worthwhile does ...

 ohreally wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I'm waiting for the book they recently announced before I truly get started with the game; I did already pick up a pretty good Orlock model collection from a friend. I just don't want to get their gang sourcebook (House of Iron?) only to have it invalidated within a couple of months.

Don't let these nitpicking doomsayers like Baxx there mislead you. The game is in a very good place.

Waiting for Outlands is still a good idea but House of Iron isn't going to be invalidated anytime soon.

For those playing the home game of this edition in air quotes.
Orlocks started the 2017 edition with a get you by pdf in November
In 2018 they got a gang war book for around $30 usd
Also in 2018 the gang war books were superseded by the Gangs book for around $50
Two years later House of Iron was released replacing Gangs book

In four and a half years, there have been three books for the gang.
Escher and Goliath have had four books in the same period.
The updated rule books cycle spins fast for the current edition.

Resting One wrote:
Having Baxx actively shee-iting on the game is actually an external balance.

The game deserves constant scrutiny and blunt criticism. Anything that is worthwhile does ...

Valid criticism is always welcome.

Unfortunately someone who advocates stealing the rules no matter what and doesn't even play the RAW disqualifies themselves from being taken seriously.

Of course, this forum also bullied Petitioner's City out of the thread for having anything positive to say.

So we all know which way the wind blows around here.

If you like this edition of Necromunda, the Ash Wastes Rulebook is the best expression of the rules so far. We just got a FAQ and updated trading post. The game continues to be actively developed and expanded.

I look forward to Outlands making a true Ash Wastes vehicle campaign playable. It should have been released alongside the box set. The Ash Wastes Rulebook should have been released separately at the same time like the new models. Unfortunately that wasn't the case. It's not the way I would have done things but there are only more good things to come from the Ash Wastes as far as I can tell.

 privateer4hire wrote:

For those playing the home game of this edition in air quotes.
Orlocks started the 2017 edition with a get you by pdf in November
In 2018 they got a gang war book for around $30 usd
Also in 2018 the gang war books were superseded by the Gangs book for around $50
Two years later House of Iron was released replacing Gangs book

In four and a half years, there have been three books for the gang.
Escher and Goliath have had four books in the same period.
The updated rule books cycle spins fast for the current edition.

The Orlock from the 300 USD ash waste box have different point cost and how ganger equipped (come with forced mesh armor instead of nothing) than the one in House of Iron. This is the same for Nomad except there're no nomad book to drawn comparison from. Gotta add more confusion to the players with each new release, just copy paste the thing that existed instead of writing rule like rule writer try to write them again by memory, how hard can that be???

Same thing happen in the "Hive Wars" box, different cost and gang structure? What's going on here at the SG studio? Ctrl +C and Ctrl +V.

So it really is V4.0 of Orlocks?

Maybe the Necromunda team is a bit like the teams Activision has working on Call of Duty. With that they have 3 (maybe 4 now?) teams working on a regular development cycle doing one game every 3 years, but from the outside it looks like one game every year because they've staggered their development.

So with Necromunda the people who worked on the Necromunda starter are now working on something new, whereas the people who worked on Dark Uprising are the ones who worked on Ash Wastes. It would explain why the rules don't seem to have much relation to the one just prior, almost like they're 'skipping' the updates and only working off of the base rules from the major rule release before that.

I'd guess that's the way GW does FAQs/points updates as well, as we've seen things revert back to the way they were two FAQs/points updates before without any rhyme or reason.

As I expected this is not Necromunda Underhive anymore, rules are not compatible. This is a whole new game/edition so books will be replaced with a full new cycle of releases.

Which for me is not a bad thing since me and my group completed our gangs not long ago (upgrades are still pretty new) and we're basically ready now to play Underhive at its full potential, although some of the scenery for the campaign still needs work. So not having to update the rules for a long time for a game that will be played only occasionally is good, really good.

Eventually when the game has settled, like the current state of Underhive, I might start looking at Ash Wastes. For the moment it's an easy pass for me, but nevetheless the miniatures (some of them at least) look good and the game is interesting and promising, so I'll keep following how it grows.

Should not the new gangs that dont have the under hive sculpted bases supplied in the box, actually be cheaper?

 NAVARRO wrote:
Should not the new gangs that dont have the under hive sculpted bases supplied in the box, actually be cheaper?

You're a funny guy NAVARRO.

Well they come with the "fine sand" sculpted base

 NAVARRO wrote:
Should not the new gangs that dont have the under hive sculpted bases supplied in the box, actually be cheaper?

 Blackie wrote:
As I expected this is not Necromunda Underhive anymore, rules are not compatible. This is a whole new game/edition so books will be replaced with a full new cycle of releases.

This is 100% wrong. The rules in Ash Wastes are additive. It's all compatible.

Apparently some people can't tell the difference or read the designer notes in Hive War or the Ash Wastes instructions that clearly state the gang rules are not the full rules and are only intended for skirmish games to help you play right out of the box. Neither were new versions of the Orlock gang list they expected people to start using in all circumstances. The definitive Orlock list is House of Iron. It even says as much in the Ash Wastes instruction pamphlet where their rules are for the box. The complete rules for their vehicles will specifically be in Book of the Outlands, but that's new content.

There are going to be new books and new gangs, but anyone who thinks we're about to start a new cycle of House books immediately is either maliciously confusing and misleading protentional new players or being willfully ignorant.

I'm glad your group is ready to go all in on Underhive and it is essentially a complete setting, unlike Ash Wastes, but the Ash Wastes is just another setting using the same rules you already know with the addition of the new rules for vehicles. The game is the same otherwise. I also think it's worth waiting a bit for Ash Wastes to settle down for most groups, but if you're already ready to go with custom vehicles, you should be able to start a complete campaign once Book of the Outlands is released anyway.

I really feel bad for anyone who relies on this forum to get to know this game. Lots of misleading, trolling and malicious comments from people with suspect motives and experience.

 ohreally wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
As I expected this is not Necromunda Underhive anymore, rules are not compatible. This is a whole new game/edition so books will be replaced with a full new cycle of releases.

This is 100% wrong. The rules in Ash Wastes are additive. It's all compatible.

Apparently some people can't tell the difference or read the designer notes in Hive War or the Ash Wastes instructions that clearly state the gang rules are not the full rules and are only intended for skirmish games to help you play right out of the box. Neither were new versions of the Orlock gang list they expected people to start using in all circumstances. The definitive Orlock list is House of Iron. It even says as much in the Ash Wastes instruction pamphlet where their rules are for the box. The complete rules for their vehicles will specifically be in Book of the Outlands, but that's new content.

There are going to be new books and new gangs, but anyone who thinks we're about to start a new cycle of House books immediately is either maliciously confusing and misleading protentional new players or being willfully ignorant.

I'm glad your group is ready to go all in on Underhive and it is essentially a complete setting, unlike Ash Wastes, but the Ash Wastes is just another setting using the same rules you already know with the addition of the new rules for vehicles. The game is the same otherwise. I also think it's worth waiting a bit for Ash Wastes to settle down for most groups, but if you're already ready to go with custom vehicles, you should be able to start a complete campaign once Book of the Outlands is released anyway.

I really feel bad for anyone who relies on this forum to get to know this game. Lots of misleading, trolling and malicious comments from people with suspect motives and experience.

Good post, thanks dude

 ohreally wrote:

There are going to be new books and new gangs, but anyone who thinks we're about to start a new cycle of House books immediately is either maliciously confusing and misleading protentional new players or being willfully ignorant.

I would say it's more malicious to misrepresent the game as a complete and coherent product and lure people into throwing away their money on something they might find to not be as polished you make it out to be, than the reverse.

 ohreally wrote:



Apparently some people can't tell the difference or read the designer notes in Hive War or the Ash Wastes instructions that clearly state the gang rules are not the full rules and are only intended for skirmish games to help you play right out of the box. Neither were new versions of the Orlock gang list they expected people to start using in all circumstances. The definitive Orlock list is House of Iron. It even says as much in the Ash Wastes instruction pamphlet where their rules are for the box. The complete rules for their vehicles will specifically be in Book of the Outlands, but that's new content.

A gang list with different cost is not "not the full rule", it is the wrong rule. It blown my mind a simple demand of keeping the cost the same between different publication is so hard to understand. Like giving them the "correct" cost would suddenly cause the value of the house book drop to 0.

With so many "why?" being thrown around, we all knew the real reason these stuffs was changed , because these starter box have "insane value", and players who spent 300USD for it but not for the books are cheapskate players, so they deserved the cheapskate rule.

 ohreally wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
As I expected this is not Necromunda Underhive anymore, rules are not compatible. This is a whole new game/edition so books will be replaced with a full new cycle of releases.

This is 100% wrong. The rules in Ash Wastes are additive. It's all compatible.

Apparently some people can't tell the difference or read the designer notes in Hive War or the Ash Wastes instructions that clearly state the gang rules are not the full rules and are only intended for skirmish games to help you play right out of the box. Neither were new versions of the Orlock gang list they expected people to start using in all circumstances. The definitive Orlock list is House of Iron. It even says as much in the Ash Wastes instruction pamphlet where their rules are for the box. The complete rules for their vehicles will specifically be in Book of the Outlands, but that's new content.

There are going to be new books and new gangs, but anyone who thinks we're about to start a new cycle of House books immediately is either maliciously confusing and misleading protentional new players or being willfully ignorant.

I'm glad your group is ready to go all in on Underhive and it is essentially a complete setting, unlike Ash Wastes, but the Ash Wastes is just another setting using the same rules you already know with the addition of the new rules for vehicles. The game is the same otherwise. I also think it's worth waiting a bit for Ash Wastes to settle down for most groups, but if you're already ready to go with custom vehicles, you should be able to start a complete campaign once Book of the Outlands is released anyway.

I really feel bad for anyone who relies on this forum to get to know this game. Lots of misleading, trolling and malicious comments from people with suspect motives and experience.

My point is that if new books are specifically designed for Ash Wastes and are not compatible with the Underhive game, then they're two different games/editions. For example is the rulebook significantly different from the 2018 ruleboook?

If Ash Wastes was just an expansion then gangs wouldn't need a new Book of X. It's a whole new game/edition instead. In 40k armies can play with 8th edition codexes, but they lack lots of features.

Well, although GW was instantly out of Ash Waste Nomad cards I did manage to get some from Element Games. My nomads arrived today as well. No rules or stats inside the box. No rulebook I can see to buy? I didn't want the giant box because a) price, b) I already have Orlocks I don't use.

So... are GW going to cater for people like me? Is there a plan for a rulebook in the future for Ash Waste Nomads? Or am I going to have to find illegal rules ffs.

I believe we're getting "Book of the Outlands" (not sure if that's the right name), with the Nomads, the Squats, and the Orlock Quads at the minimum. Not sure when it is due, though.

Here is the community link

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/06/revealed-squat-prospectors-hit-the-motherlode-in-the-ash-wastes/

Thanks Flinty - looking it up got interrupted by getting a pizza out of the over

Priorities, amirite?

Pizza wins every time, my friend

Well, it reads as though that Book of the Outlands is due the same time those squat miners are due. The could be months away.
It'll give me time to build, paint and forget I had any interest in them.

 Blackie wrote:

My point is that if new books are specifically designed for Ash Wastes and are not compatible with the Underhive game, then they're two different games/editions. For example is the rulebook significantly different from the 2018 ruleboook?

The Ash Wastes Rulebook is not significantly different from the 2018 Rulebook as far as the rules themselves are concerned. The core rules are the same (inclusive of errata) but also have rules for handling vehicles.

They simply added a new concept called model so that old rules which refer to fighters will not affect vehicles, but new rules can specify if they work with just fighters, just vehicles, or both (ie. models).

You can play Nomads in the Underhive. You can play Goliath or any other gang n the Ash Wastes setting but they don't have any vehicles at the moment. That should be corrected for all gangs in the Book of the Outlands which is said to have generic vehicle rules. Even with the next book in hand, you'd still want House of Chains to play those Goliath.

It's not a new game or new edition in the sense of 40K. You can mix and match games set in the Underhive and Ash Wastes in the same campaign without issue. Some scenarios allow vehicles and some don't.

It's an expansion that has a stand alone rulebook so you don't need anything else but it's all additive and doesn't replace anything.

If you don't want the box or don't want to play Ash Wastes games or use vehicles you can ignore it, but it's not a brand new game. It's a new additional way to play the game in a new setting with new models.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
Well, it reads as though that Book of the Outlands is due the same time those squat miners are due. The could be months away.
It'll give me time to build, paint and forget I had any interest in them.

This also happened when N17 was released. People wanted to create campaigns but only Escher & Goliath were available for months. Then everybody went elsewhere for their tabletop fix.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
Well, it reads as though that Book of the Outlands is due the same time those squat miners are due. The could be months away.
It'll give me time to build, paint and forget I had any interest in them.

This also happened when N17 was released. People wanted to create campaigns but only Escher & Goliath were available for months. Then everybody went elsewhere for their tabletop fix.

Since they previewed the models already should not this be hitting us sooner rather than later?

 ohreally wrote:
Unfortunately someone who advocates stealing the rules no matter what and doesn't even play the RAW disqualifies themselves from being taken seriously.

I'm an advocate for that, while also being a proponent of the game (and how good it can be with some arbitrator/house rule intervention) compared to many in this thread.

 ohreally wrote:
If you like this edition of Necromunda, the Ash Wastes Rulebook is the best expression of the rules so far.

In what ways, specifically? How did you reach that conclusion, and what changes are in the rulebook that made you believe that?

Baxx made the specific claim that the stealth improvements to Pitch Black and Sentries - "improvements" which were nonetheless insufficient to fix the issues surrounding those rules, which are two of the worst things in the game, but were still better than nothing - have been rolled back in the new rulebook. If that's true the AW rulebook is objectively worse than the last one, unless you have uncovered some new tweaks which you can share.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

I would say it's more malicious to misrepresent the game as a complete and coherent product and lure people into throwing away their money on something they might find to not be as polished you make it out to be, than the reverse.

So because they are still releasing D&D books nobody should play D&D or maliciously misrepresent that it's a complete or coherent product? Just asking for an internet friend.

You can play any gangs in the Ash Waste, you just don't have any vehicle while the other guy have free 400 extra credit to spend on it.

Sound like fun, balanced game of ash waste bowling.

Chopstick wrote:
You can play any gangs in the Ash Waste, you just don't have any vehicle while the other guy have free 400 extra credit to spend on it.

Sound like fun, balanced game of ash waste bowling.

Begs the question...who the feth would agree to that? Ya know, you could just NOT take the vehicles. Or buckle-up and do a little work to have them for the other gangs.

It doesnt require any work. Just allow the other gangs to use the Orlock vehicle entry in exactly the same way that they do.