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School is coming back for kids everywhere, and recent studies have been done on homework loads:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/12/health/homework-elementary-school-study/index.html?sr=fb081215toomuchhomeworkVOPtopLink



What are your thoughts?

Maybe?

I tend to think that yes, they might - in certain areas.

I didn't notice it in elementary school, but junior high it popped up.

And it seems that high school homework loads are increasing quite a bit.

From 2006-2011, I was substitute teaching at schools. I graduated from HS in 2003. The workload that I had then was worse than what I saw while subbing, and kids seemed to have mandatory study halls to work on the problems while in school (which I think is a good thing, as they have time they can ask teachers for help, if they're having a tough time with material). So this has led to less actual "homework". Is HW back on the rise, in these past 4 years?

It wasn't uncommon for me to have soccer practice or karate, followed by 2-4 hours of homework a night. And I had to fight to get a study hall to get started.

 Alpharius wrote:
Maybe?

I tend to think that yes, they might - in certain areas.

I didn't notice it in elementary school, but junior high it popped up.

And it seems that high school homework loads are increasing quite a bit.

Reading that article I posted, they make mention of the current "theory" that kids should have 10 minutes per grade of homework each night.

Now, my daughter was in Kindergarten last year, and while I think that homework would usually take about 10 minutes for what she had, usually she took longer (seriously, she had to tell us a story for each problem on the page). I think that, at least in elementary school, this "10-minute rule" works, because students generally have a single teacher, and that teacher can greatly control the amount and timing of homework.

I think that it's really junior high and high school that it really begins to creep up, simply for the fact that in most schools, those students no longer have a single teacher but anywhere from 4-8 teachers, depending on school scheduling systems. If we view high school as being "college prep" then having a bunch of homework isn't such a problem, but that may be the problem. High school was, at least in theory, supposed to give people the basic skills to survive into adulthood (way back when a HS diploma was worth something, and you didn't need a Masters in Philosophy just to get a job at Starbucks ).

Homework for me never got that hard. It was always getting into a groove an know when a teacher gives what.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Homework for me never got that hard. It was always getting into a groove an know when a teacher gives what.

It isn't actually hard to 'know when a teacher gives what' is it?

I mean, if you're paying attention?

Having been through secondary school recently, the amount of homework you get seems to shoot up around the time of GCSEs onwards (14yo+). The problem is that at that time, teachers start taking homework very seriously, because, you know, these are important exams, and so it's not uncommon to get 3-5 pieces of homework per day, each of which normally take between 30 minutes and an hour to complete. Of course, teachers who realise that their subject is not the single most important thing you will ever do are few and far between, so God forbid that you ever try and point out to them that there are, in fact, other things that it might be necessary for you to do.

Wow, I never had homework in kindergarten. I'm not even sure if I had all that much in first grade.

This article is pretty surprising.

YES!


Waaaay too much homework.


Teachers always seem to think their subject is the only one in existence and give you loads of "very important" homework. And with every teacher doing that you end up completely buried and unable to finish assignments in time. If teachers would better coordinate the amounts of homework with the other teachers, it would be much better.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

Teachers always seem to think their subject is the only one in existence and give you loads of "very important" homework. And with every teacher doing that you end up completely buried and unable to finish assignments in time. If teachers would better coordinate the amounts of homework with the other teachers, it would be much better.

Hah.

Hahahahahah.

Hahahahahahahhahahaha.

You realize, on average, a teacher at a "normal" sized American High School is going to have between 140 and 200 students a day, right?

And that each of those students is going to have a unique class schedule, with different teachers and different subjects.

I mean, I think it's cute that you assume that kind of coordination would be possible, but at the secondary level, it simply isn't.

And no, I don't think students have too much homework. Homework is about gaining proficiency, and most teachers I know weight it fairly low when it comes to an overall grade (typically below 20%). If you're already proficient, it shouldn't take you much time. If you're already proficient, it should basically be free points.

Maybe kids are taking home more work these days, but is that really such a burden? I remember in High School (graduated 2007 from US public school) having a moderate load of work, but way more free time than was probably needed. Obviously mental health is a big issue that needs to be better addressed, but I'm not convinced the amount of homework is such a heavy factor.

If anything I wish my High School would have pushed for more homework to give a better sense of work load and responsibilities. It's too easy for kids to slink out of the administrations eye and get by with the bare minimum. Of course my high school had about 3,000 students. This could be totally different if you came from a smaller school of say, 150 students.

It's just perspective and priorities I suppose. During school it seems like the hardest, most stressful thing ever. I mean, I guess it is since it's the hardest thing you've yet run across. But realistically your still living in the most stress-free and lasting consequence-free period of your life.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:


Reading that article I posted, they make mention of the current "theory" that kids should have 10 minutes per grade of homework each night.

120 minutes a night for a Senior in High School (12th Grade)? That seems excessive. About an hour a night, with the occasional 2 hours if I had a test was the norm. Longer/weekends for the big project/report.

 clamclaw wrote:
Living in the most stress-free and lasting consequence-free period of your life.

Lol. American South here.
I was bullied mercilessly by dozens of people from 3rd to 7th grade due to enjoying school and being intelligent. Every day caused more and more stress. I suffered two absolute tearful breakdowns due to the amount of stress created during 7th grade, and one at the beginning of 9th grade due to being humiliated by people in front of the entire class. I have to spend about an hour+ per day on homework.

 kronk wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:


Reading that article I posted, they make mention of the current "theory" that kids should have 10 minutes per grade of homework each night.

120 minutes a night for a Senior in High School (12th Grade)? That seems excessive. About an hour a night, with the occasional 2 hours if I had a test was the norm. Longer/weekends for the big project/report.

I would say its about 1-2 hours a day all in. GC tends to have a lot of projects. This does not include Tennis.
Z was about the same but he also took extra classes during the summer, and his band stuff was about 1-2 hours a day, depending on which competition cycle they were in (but they were top 5 state competitors every year).

Me, well, does running from pack hunters count as homework?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Verviedi wrote:

 clamclaw wrote:
Living in the most stress-free and lasting consequence-free period of your life.

Lol. American South here.
I was bullied mercilessly by dozens of people from 3rd to 7th grade due to enjoying school and being intelligent. Every day caused more and more stress. I suffered two absolute tearful breakdowns due to the amount of stress created during 7th grade, and one at the beginning of 9th grade due to being humiliated by people in front of the entire class. I have to spend about an hour+ per day on homework.

See if you just ate the liver of one of your tormentors that problem would be solved.
WWHLD? (What would Hannibal Lecter do?)

There should not be any homework at all. Hailing from a country where most schools still end at 13:30-ish, the best solution would be a school system that includes school lasting until the late afternoon (4 or 5 pm), all with a (good!) meal and teachers supervising students doing "homework" in order to provide good results.

It also solves a big social injustice problem with some parents not willing or able (single moms or fathers, for example, especially the latter) to help their children with their homework.

Germany, however, has the most backwards school system there is in modern states and a lot of teachers would rather die than stay in school any longer. Surprsingly, there are a few (mostly private) schools that do so, "forcing" teachers to stay longer so they actually play their lessons ahead together...with extremely good feedback, both from students and teachers alike.

You expect someone with my figure to be able to eat an entire liver in one sitting?

IMO its a big Maybe.

Since some kids need more home work. and others dont.

Should stop treating kids like numbers and teach them the way they individually need. (but not home schooled since kids still need to learn social skills)

(edit: actually wrong word)

 Verviedi wrote:
You expect someone with my figure to be able to eat an entire liver in one sitting?

I know the feeling.

The homework I have had so far can be hefty, but I can cope. Of course, I plan on taking more of the Honor/AP classes in the future, but as of now I can manage. Less would be nice, but I cam understand teachers reasoning for it.

Outside of reading and maybe a handful of math problems I never found homework to be useful when I was kid. By the time we got the assignments I already knew all the material very well and it was so much busy work putting it to paper. Seems like it's even worse for kids now, with hour upon hour of pointless repetition.

Given a choice I'd extend the school day for more direct instruction, and drop the concept of homework entirely.

 Desubot wrote:
IMO its a big Maybe.

Since some kids need more home work. and others dont.

Should stop treating kids like numbers and teach them the way they individually need. (but not home schooled since kids still need to learn social skills)

(edit: actually wrong word)

In an ideal world this would be the solution. Sadly the cost and manpower to give each child their own lesson plan is out of reach. Like I had mentioned, my High School had over 3,000 students for just this one Minnesotan suburb. I can't imagine how many more teachers and aides would be needed to cover that many people.

 Sigvatr wrote:
There should not be any homework at all. Hailing from a country where most schools still end at 13:30-ish, the best solution would be a school system that includes school lasting until the late afternoon (4 or 5 pm), all with a (good!) meal and teachers supervising students doing "homework" in order to provide good results.

So....the schools would then be providing all three meals for many students? And I assume teachers would be further compensated in addition to what they already are?

It also solves a big social injustice problem with some parents not willing or able (single moms or fathers, for example, especially the latter) to help their children with their homework.

So....are we going to hold parents accountable for anything anymore?

Germany, however, has the most backwards school system there is in modern states and a lot of teachers would rather die than stay in school any longer. .

So, how many hours would you like teachers to work a day, exactly? A week?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Chongara wrote:
Outside of reading and maybe a handful of math problems I never found homework to be useful when I was kid. By the time we got the assignments I already knew all the material very well and it was so much busy work putting it to paper. Seems like it's even worse for kids now, with hour upon hour of pointless repetition.

But that's for you, who, based on my interactions here, is above average intelligence;

That's not the case for all students, and for many the repetition and practice that homework provides is a necessity for comprehension.

 clamclaw wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
IMO its a big Maybe.

Since some kids need more home work. and others dont.

Should stop treating kids like numbers and teach them the way they individually need. (but not home schooled since kids still need to learn social skills)

(edit: actually wrong word)

In an ideal world this would be the solution. Sadly the cost and manpower to give each child their own lesson plan is out of reach. Like I had mentioned, my High School had over 3,000 students for just this one Minnesotan suburb. I can't imagine how many more teachers and aides would be needed to cover that many people.

True dat :/

 cincydooley wrote:

 Chongara wrote:
Outside of reading and maybe a handful of math problems I never found homework to be useful when I was kid. By the time we got the assignments I already knew all the material very well and it was so much busy work putting it to paper. Seems like it's even worse for kids now, with hour upon hour of pointless repetition.

But that's for you, who, based on my interactions here, is above average intelligence;

That's not the case for all students, and for many the repetition and practice that homework provides is a necessity for comprehension.

Sometimes little Johnny is really slow and needs 15 home work problems to figure out that 2 + 2 does equal 4! (For most values of 2 and 4, naturally)

I think that "repetition hammers in knowledge" is a complete myth. Repetition doesn't hammer in knowledge. Repetition hammer's in that homework is tedious, unimportant, and a waste of the student's time but they have to do it anyway cause "the man" says so.

I don't think that's an issue with homework per se. Calling what a lot of teachers assign 'homework' is being overly generous. It's busy work. It doesn't actually teach anything.

If we want US students to be more on par with those in the rest of the world (that's a thing we want right?) we might start by not treating them as idiots from the first grade onward and instead treat them as having actually learned something at some point in time.

Anyone take into account the internet at their finger tips?

 cincydooley wrote:

It also solves a big social injustice problem with some parents not willing or able (single moms or fathers, for example, especially the latter) to help their children with their homework.

So....are we going to hold parents accountable for anything anymore?

Repetition certainly does help with retaining knowledge, that's a pretty standard truth. Unless you have some crazy eidetic memory.

Secondary to that, life has busy work. Life's going to have repetition. Tedious work does not stop after school's over. It would be in students best interest to learn how to handle this and be accustomed to it, no?

 LordofHats wrote:
I think that "repetition hammers in knowledge" is a complete myth. Repetition doesn't hammer in knowledge. Repetition hammer's in that homework is tedious, unimportant, and a waste of the student's time but they have to do it anyway cause "the man" says so.

There are enough scholarly articles on spaced repetition to argue that you're wrong. Learning concepts is different than simple memorization, so the use of Loci isn't really applicable in many areas.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Yeah, how dare those parents work a job instead of picking up the slack for the public school system!

Actually teaching the material instead of just teaching to the tests.

Listen to you. You're making me smile.

You do realize that a teacher can fully "teach the material" and a student can still struggle with it when doing an at home assignment, right?

Or are you really operating under the notion that if a student doesn't immediately understand a concept that the teacher didn't teach the material or taught it poorly?

Teacher here! I rarely set anything that I think will take more than 25 minutes for my weakest students, though I often try to make the homework in such a way as that a stronger student can give me a better answer by spending a bit more time. I base the time for the homework on the time similar exercises take in classroom conditions, which I reckon is a fairly okay measure.
I think secondary school kids should be well able to do an hour and a half's homework every weekday during term time, with some days maybe lighter and work on the weekend. I am conscious of the demands on my older students, particularly those who are close to leaving, and I often ask them how they are doing with their other subjects before setting them a big piece of work. Unfortunately coursework still has to get done and sometimes long hours are needed. Sometimes this is a problem of the school not allocating sufficient time to cover the material properly.

I don't think my students get too much homework from their subjects, but I think the coursework load is increasing in every subject for older students and this is very stressful for them.

When I was in school we had classes 9-4, and then 2 hours supervised study for older students to get the independent work mostly done. It was grim, especially in winter, but you quickly got used to it- you just didn't have a social life or anything during the week outside of chatting to your friends in school. Not sure if it is the right way to go, just because I didn't find it onerous though. Plus we had ridiculously long summer holidays to doss around in.

My anecdotes don't answer the overall question, though. My impression is that expectations for kids these days are higher than they were for my generation, and competition is worse. They are often pretty legitimately stressed, and I have sympathy for my students in that regard. It may not always look that way from a student's perspective though as I do have to meet the requirements of the external examination boards.