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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/09 11:15:42
Subject: Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Hi there,
I'm in the middle of planning and starting a Night Lords army - the list I've been working with currently can be found over at http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/659817.page if anyone is interested.
There's some rumours running about that Chaos Marines will be getting a new Codex soon, so my dilemma becomes thus; should I start putting together my force based on this list and hope that it doesn't get too messed with when it comes to rule changes, or do I hang fire for a bit and peruse the new Codex first when it arrives?
Little uncertain, so would welcome advice.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/09 11:19:09
Subject: Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch
Netherlands
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Definitely wait. CSM are in a very tough spot right now, they need some serious overhauling and often big changes in codexes make for a lot of turbulence and inner imbalance. This could possibly make a lot of stuff obsolete or below average.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/09 11:21:07
Subject: Re:Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader
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Well if you've got a box of Dark Vengeance kicking around that can be a playable army for the time being.
If you're planning on doing a Slaanesh force, wait and see if there's any legitimacy in the "THEY'RE REMOVING BEWBS GOD! OH NOES!" rumors.
But you can't go wrong with a bunch of models anyway, and if a new codex drops and makes x and y obsolete, either pull them apart and re-use them or they're nice models anyway.
It's really subjective as to whether one should start an army now or later.
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3000pts Blood Angels (4th Company) - 2000pts Skitarii (Voss Prime) - 2500pts Imperial Knights (Unnamed House) - 1000pts Imperial Guard (Household Retainers)
2000pts Free Peoples (Edlynd Fusiliers) - 2000pts Kharadron Overlords (Barak Zilfin) - 500pts Ironweld Arsenal (Edlynd Ironwork Federation) - 1000pts Duardin (Grongrok Powderheads)
Wargaming's no fun when you have a plan! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/09 12:16:42
Subject: Re:Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Appreciate the advice. Given that I'm putting together a pretty small force right now, I'll probably crack on with it and use the DV for practicing with whilst I wait for the new codex to drop. Then I can reassess.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/09 12:47:29
Subject: Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Revving Ravenwing Biker
England
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I'll just mention that those rumors have been called into doubt.
Nevertheless waiting might be good because it still COULD come soon and even if it doesn't, it still seems that CSMs are in a bad place at the moment.
Just a side note about the army list, are you sure you have the right Legion for those units? The Night Lords are unaligned and generally not big on the actual Chaos part of Chaos, whereas the Emperor's Children are the Slaanesh worshipers and the source of the original Noise Marines.
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Don't believe me? It's all in the numbers.
Number 1: That's terror.
Number 2: That's terror.
Dark Angels/Angels of Vengeance combo - ???? - Input wanted! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/09 12:51:12
Subject: Re:Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
PA Unitied States
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you'll be safe to paint some troops and a HQ. It'll give you a head start when the new dex comes out.
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22 yrs in the hobby
:Eldar: 10K+ pts, 2500 pts
1850 pts
Vampire Counts 4000+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/09 14:03:59
Subject: Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Morphing Obliterator
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If you plan on going Night Lords you'll want a bunch of raptors, to make a fluffy-like list a squad or two should be present in every edition, again focusing on fluff over competitiveness. They've never been the star of any codex afaik but they look cool and that's one of the main characteristics of the VIIIth legion and well they are assault marines with jump packs they can't get a radical change, that's what Warp Talons are there for.
Reading the HH army lists and fluff besides having raptors they had a heavy use of deepstrike via dreadclaws and terminators. For these I'd wait until the new codex, but you can't go wrong with a box or 2 of raptors.
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CSM 10k points
IG 3k points
Orks 2k points
WoC 3.5k points
VC 2.5k points
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/09 14:49:13
Subject: Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Screaming Shining Spear
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I love Chaos, but I'm planning to wait to go CSM until the codex gets updated. CSM were basically obsolete on launch, and have only gotten worse since. The model range needs a major update too.
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~3000 (Fully Painted)
Coming Soon!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/09 15:00:51
Subject: Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker
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Whatever happens with the new CSM, you are still going to have a need for basic troops such as your standard Chaos Space Marines/cultists if doing a combined arms detachment. However, chances are there will be some new formations coming out with the new book. I personally would wait for the new book to come out, put together your lists based on that and then look at what you need to buy. You can't go too wrong with getting some of the above mentioned basic troops before the new book, but save getting the more specialist stuff until the new book comes out.
Looking at your list from your previous post, it doesn't seem much like a Night Lords army to me personally. Night Lords for me are all about Raptors, Warp Talons and units that move quickly, hit hard and are stealthy if they can be (a bit like an evil version of Ravenguard - you never know Night Lords might get infiltrating Raptors). If you can afford them, the Night Lords Raptors on Forgeworld are just beautiful, as is the Night Lords Contemptor and their standard dreadnought.
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"For The Emperor and Sanguinius!"
My Armies:
Blood Angels, Ultramarines,
Astra Militarum,
Mechanicus |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/09 15:06:45
Subject: Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Slaphead wrote:
Looking at your list from your previous post, it doesn't seem much like a Night Lords army to me personally. Night Lords for me are all about Raptors, Warp Talons and units that move quickly, hit hard and are stealthy if they can be (a bit like an evil version of Ravenguard - you never know Night Lords might get infiltrating Raptors). If you can afford them, the Night Lords Raptors on Forgeworld are just beautiful, as is the Night Lords Contemptor and their standard dreadnought.
I am intending to develop the force with more units related to the Night Lords (Raptors etc.), however I am somewhat financially constrained so am starting quite basic. The list I have comprised so far relies on Noise Marines for their pinning ability weapons that I feel fits with the "fear" idea of the NL. I do also say at the top of that list that I intend to acquire Raptors later along the line.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/09 15:07:02
Subject: Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I'd wait. You'll know soon enough.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/09 15:07:21
Subject: Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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DONT BUY THE CURRENT CODEX (for full price)
It will probably be outdated soon.
Buying basic troops from dark vengeance should be safe, creating a huge army probably isn't. They might change most of the units but the dark vengeance models are really cost effective.
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Inactive, user. New profile might pop up in a while |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/09 15:18:48
Subject: Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Morphing Obliterator
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Slaphead wrote:
Looking at your list from your previous post, it doesn't seem much like a Night Lords army to me personally. Night Lords for me are all about Raptors, Warp Talons and units that move quickly, hit hard and are stealthy if they can be (a bit like an evil version of Ravenguard - you never know Night Lords might get infiltrating Raptors). If you can afford them, the Night Lords Raptors on Forgeworld are just beautiful, as is the Night Lords Contemptor and their standard dreadnought.
The current kit for raptors/talons is pretty sweet as well, lots of bits and great looking models. I was about to order the Night Raptors ( HH) for my own army, but they are pretty pricey so until I get some extra money for them I got the terror squad heads and some NL shoulderpads to use on the GW Raptors, they look good. Besides you can never have enough raptors as a NL player.
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CSM 10k points
IG 3k points
Orks 2k points
WoC 3.5k points
VC 2.5k points
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/09 15:25:24
Subject: Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Deadshot Weapon Moderati
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You could start with some Forgeworld stuff maybe. That stuff wont get updated or changed with the next codex (most likely).
Don't buy any of the codices or supplements though.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/09 17:53:21
Subject: Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
Hatfield, PA
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slickviscous wrote:Hi there,
I'm in the middle of planning and starting a Night Lords army - the list I've been working with currently can be found over at http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/659817.page if anyone is interested.
There's some rumours running about that Chaos Marines will be getting a new Codex soon, so my dilemma becomes thus; should I start putting together my force based on this list and hope that it doesn't get too messed with when it comes to rule changes, or do I hang fire for a bit and peruse the new Codex first when it arrives?
Little uncertain, so would welcome advice.
If you want to play now, buy minis now. It is that simple. You can't plan for the future with GW because you just don't know. They have gotten better at not invalidating units anymore and removing them from the game completely when they release a new codex, but yeah some armies don't work exactly the same way after a new book sometimes. The key is that we really have zero idea of when a new chaos book is coming. The most accurate rumor sources have said nothing else for chaos until 2016 at the soonest. That could be January 2016, or September 2016. Only GW really knows and they go out of their way to keep things totally quiet until the last possible minute these days. The sources for the CSMs getting a new codex in October are suspect at best.
Build your army, have fun with it and enjoy playing. When a new book drops you can worry about it then.
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CSM 6k points CSM 4k points
CSM 4.5k points CSM 3.5k points
 and Daemons 4k points each
Renegades 4k points
SM 4k points
SM 2.5k Points
3K 2.3k
EW, MW and LW British in Flames of War |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/09 18:59:23
Subject: Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Go ahead and buy the models to use as Loyalist Marines. That's about all you can do to be honest.
Otherwise, Daemonkin is actually really good.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/09 20:51:55
Subject: Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Hellacious Havoc
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In the past 5 months I have bought 9000 points of chaos space marines. I will admit though they are lagging quite badly and against the 6th edition Tau and Eldar, you will lose 8/10
However it's up to you
I love them but you might not
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10000
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/09 20:57:39
Subject: Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian
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One suggestion would be to invest in IA:13 units. Even if a new codex hits, their rules will stay the same.
Ones I'd suggest:
-Typhon
-Fire Raptor
-Blood Slaughterer
-Plague Hulk
-Hell Blade
-Giant Spawn
-DREADCLAW (I didn't accidentally hit caps there).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/09 21:59:20
Subject: Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Power-Hungry Cultist of Tzeentch
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I've yet to play a game (for various reasons) but that hasn't stopped me from buying, modeling, and painting for nearly a year now. In my case, this is because I'm a "hobbyist" first. I've gotten into this for the lore and the conversion/painting. The happy lie I keep telling myself is that by the time I'm finished with everything I want to do a new codex will drop and I'll be all set to go.
My point? Chaos is a labor of passion: we do it because we love it. If you want an army of Night Lords, then by the gods build your army of Night Lords. I, for one, endorse this plan. Ave Dominus Nox, my friend.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/09 22:22:36
Subject: Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Monstrously Massive Big Mutant
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Poly Ranger wrote:One suggestion would be to invest in IA:13 units. Even if a new codex hits, their rules will stay the same.
Ones I'd suggest:
-Typhon
-Fire Raptor
-Blood Slaughterer
-Plague Hulk
-Hell Blade
-Giant Spawn
-DREADCLAW (I didn't accidentally hit caps there).
As much as I love my Chaos Space Marines, they're trash outside of FW. And no one should ever have to invest in $100+ on an IA book just to be competitive within the 40k Scene. LIterally, aside from Troops and HQs our entire competitive list of units comes from FW for an extremely large cost in comparison to other armies. Not to mention Import Charges.
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Life: An incomprehensible, endless circle of involuntary self-destruction.
12,000
14,000
11,000
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/09 23:20:56
Subject: Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine
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Scourged wrote:I've yet to play a game (for various reasons) but that hasn't stopped me from buying, modeling, and painting for nearly a year now. In my case, this is because I'm a "hobbyist" first. I've gotten into this for the lore and the conversion/painting. The happy lie I keep telling myself is that by the time I'm finished with everything I want to do a new codex will drop and I'll be all set to go.
My point? Chaos is a labor of passion: we do it because we love it. If you want an army of Night Lords, then by the gods build your army of Night Lords. I, for one, endorse this plan. Ave Dominus Nox, my friend.
This is about the best advice one could offer for a prospective Chaos player. Ignore the fluff (forge your own warband and include what you want). Paint and model the units you want at this point and just enjoy the hobby. Chaos will never likely be a top tier army, even with a new codex. You might as well get what enjoyment you can out of it. Ave Dominus Nox.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/09 23:21:55
Help me, Rhonda. HA! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/09 23:24:48
Subject: Re:Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
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I'd wait on a Chaos Marine army. They're in a rather awkward spot right now, and if the current design paradigm holds up, the army may get a rather intensive reboot of sorts, and nobody wants to go out and buy and build and army only to have a new book come out 5 or 8 months later and make you want to build the army in a completely different manner.
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IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/10 00:00:46
Subject: Re:Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Screaming Shining Spear
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Vaktathi wrote:I'd wait on a Chaos Marine army. They're in a rather awkward spot right now, and if the current design paradigm holds up, the army may get a rather intensive reboot of sorts, and nobody wants to go out and buy and build and army only to have a new book come out 5 or 8 months later and make you want to build the army in a completely different manner.
Honestly, Chaos desperately needs a reboot, along with a massive redo of their model line.
CSM is currently lacking severely in internal balance, flexibility, and intra-army synergy between units. Not helping this is a preponderance toward random tables that only serve to make things clunkier and more obtuse, often making units worse in the process. Chaos Daemons is in a better place, but also suffers from plenty of Phil Kelly-style random tables.
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~3000 (Fully Painted)
Coming Soon!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/10 00:10:49
Subject: Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
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Aye, the army really is in a sad state. There's nothing particularly inspiring about it, it really does lack a "soul" of sorts, really feels like "we took C:SM, but half the book out, added some Marks, and tossed in a couple crappy daemon engines".
There's really basically nothing about it that would really spark one to the army. The external balance is poor, the internal balance is even worse, and GW seems to have an increasingly less clear idea of what they want the faction to really be anymore.
Every iteration is seemingly more and more one dimensional, increasingly generic "bad guy" stuff, with nothing left from the earlier editions where you actually were almost rooting for the bad guys at times.
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IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/10 00:29:16
Subject: Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Screaming Shining Spear
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Vaktathi wrote:Aye, the army really is in a sad state. There's nothing particularly inspiring about it, it really does lack a "soul" of sorts, really feels like "we took C: SM, but half the book out, added some Marks, and tossed in a couple crappy daemon engines".
There's really basically nothing about it that would really spark one to the army. The external balance is poor, the internal balance is even worse, and GW seems to have an increasingly less clear idea of what they want the faction to really be anymore.
Every iteration is seemingly more and more one dimensional, increasingly generic "bad guy" stuff, with nothing left from the earlier editions where you actually were almost rooting for the bad guys at times.
Hey, I actually like the new dinobots! They at least look a lot better than the Defiler. That thing just looks dumb.
I feel a lot of complaints would be addressed if Chaos had some sort of Traitor Legion-specific Chapter Tactics equivalent, with an option for Renegades. A decurion and plenty of formations would also give plenty of options as well. Chaos is meant to RIP AND TEAR up close in CC with some units providing fire support or deep-striking in. Give more options for unit synergy, reform Marks and Icons, and give players some flexibility in their list-building with regards to unit choices.
I like to think of Chaos as an unstoppable force. It may be fractured, fighting against itself and other enemies, but united together it can take on the whole galaxy. Give people a reason to root for the Great Enemy and make them less outright evil and more fleshed-out and interesting in the codex. Seriously, the Dark Eldar come off as more evil than Chaos does.
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~3000 (Fully Painted)
Coming Soon!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/10 00:44:00
Subject: Re:Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Dakka Veteran
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I'd wait, but for a different reason - if that Horus Heresy plastic rumour pans out it could make both SM and CSM a bit cheaper to collect
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/10 00:44:28
Subject: Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I'd say start building the army just don't buy the codex, some kits might get updated so just avoid the finecast stuff just in case. The older plastics that are long due for an update are usable and you could always go for loyalist lits.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/10 01:04:43
Subject: Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
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TheNewBlood wrote: Vaktathi wrote:Aye, the army really is in a sad state. There's nothing particularly inspiring about it, it really does lack a "soul" of sorts, really feels like "we took C: SM, but half the book out, added some Marks, and tossed in a couple crappy daemon engines".
There's really basically nothing about it that would really spark one to the army. The external balance is poor, the internal balance is even worse, and GW seems to have an increasingly less clear idea of what they want the faction to really be anymore.
Every iteration is seemingly more and more one dimensional, increasingly generic "bad guy" stuff, with nothing left from the earlier editions where you actually were almost rooting for the bad guys at times.
Hey, I actually like the new dinobots! They at least look a lot better than the Defiler. That thing just looks dumb.
I'm largely ok with the Dinobot models, really I was more referring to their rules (175pts for an AV12 3HP BS3 gun-walker? really?)
The defiler has it's own visual charm (though is also a decade older than the dinobots), but likewise also has crappy rules.
I feel a lot of complaints would be addressed if Chaos had some sort of Traitor Legion-specific Chapter Tactics equivalent, with an option for Renegades. A decurion and plenty of formations would also give plenty of options as well. Chaos is meant to RIP AND TEAR up close in CC with some units providing fire support or deep-striking in. Give more options for unit synergy, reform Marks and Icons, and give players some flexibility in their list-building with regards to unit choices.
Legion tactics would be a good way to go, I'm still absolutely boggled they didn't do that last time around, though the original Legions also had more restrictions in units, which I guess could be fit into a Decurion style deal (e.g. Thousand Sons Decurion wouldn't be able to take Raptor or Obliterator Cults as Rubric units or the like).
I like to think of Chaos as an unstoppable force. It may be fractured, fighting against itself and other enemies, but united together it can take on the whole galaxy. Give people a reason to root for the Great Enemy and make them less outright evil and more fleshed-out and interesting in the codex. Seriously, the Dark Eldar come off as more evil than Chaos does.
The older chaos books did a good job of this. Reading through the 2E and 3.5E CSM books, you get a sense that *they* were the ones who were betrayed in many cases, and it's the rotten Imperium that deserves to be destroyed at the hands of its own maltreated creations, and that's something that has been completely missing for quite a while with the Chaos Space Marines.
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IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/10 02:16:26
Subject: Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Nimble Pistolier
Australia
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I've been feeling the pull of starting up 40k (old school Fantasy player, was about to rejoin when AoS hit and ended that dream) for awhile now, and naturally I'm drawn the Chaos (tossing up between Alpha Legion, Slaanesh or Tzneetch). However, it irks me that Space Marines are lavished with several codex books whilst we're ignored.
There is a very strong case to have books for each of the chaos gods (like Khorne Daemonkin but for each Chaos god) or even 4 of the Legions (say...World Eaters, Emperor's Children, Deathwatch and Thousand Sons to represent each god) alongside a generic codex for the other Legions and renegade forces. Meanwhile Space marines get a generic codex alongside four other codex books for Space Marines...enough with the Imperium already. The only faction in IoM that needs love right now is Sisters of Battle.
Anyhow, as frustrating as it is for me, I'm in the camp of 'Wait and See'...I'd hate to buy up now only to have them completely obsolete. Hope it lands for Christmas 2015, or first quarter 2016.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/10 02:17:00
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/10 02:39:07
Subject: Chaos Marines - Start or wait?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Just started Chaos myself... what's this about the model line needing an overhaul? The basic Marine set seems fine to me... better than GK but obv not as nice as the new SM line.
Picked up a box of marines and a rhino... trying to decide between Black Legion scheme or one of the red ones. Life is hard.
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