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 scarletsquig wrote:
They came direct from Ronnie, so I'd imagine its more of a case of plans changing or the scope expanding from a DZ 2 ks to a full warpath ks. They consider the two to be the same thing as far as production goes, since every model is cross-compatible. I wouldn't rule out a pre-ks WP 3.0 release with enforcers and plague headlining as factions #5 and #6 for the game, more stuff has been tooled for DZ than was ever tooled for WP.

There's that new external IP thing they might do first as well, hopefully not though, as fun as Mars attacks was, I'd have much preferred it to be warpath.

Ooh, I hadn't heard that about a new IP. Any idea on what it might be?

Agree, I am still waiting for my 'dream force' of Forge Fathers for Warpath..

It's The Coneheads.

Calling it now.

I hope that whenever the Warpath KS launches Mantic will seriously consider redoing their hard plastic Marauder grunts and Forge Father steel warriors. Both should consist of dedicated, original, full on sci-fi sculpts, not slightly modified Kings of War leftovers.

 Vermonter wrote:
I hope that whenever the Warpath KS launches Mantic will seriously consider redoing their hard plastic Marauder grunts and Forge Father steel warriors. Both should consist of dedicated, original, full on sci-fi sculpts, not slightly modified Kings of War leftovers.

I totally agree with this. TBH I think they will do that. The old models dont really fit in with the new deadzone stuff stylistically.

 Vermonter wrote:
I hope that whenever the Warpath KS launches Mantic will seriously consider redoing their hard plastic Marauder grunts and Forge Father steel warriors. Both should consist of dedicated, original, full on sci-fi sculpts, not slightly modified Kings of War leftovers.

Launching your new sci-fi game with weapon swaps from your fantasy line is such a terrible decision on so many levels. I still can't really get over it.

 Vermonter wrote:
I hope that whenever the Warpath KS launches Mantic will seriously consider redoing their hard plastic Marauder grunts and Forge Father steel warriors. Both should consist of dedicated, original, full on sci-fi sculpts, not slightly modified Kings of War leftovers.

I hope mantic would realise the ammount of hassle they would get if they went down that route again.

 edlowe wrote:

 Vermonter wrote:
I hope that whenever the Warpath KS launches Mantic will seriously consider redoing their hard plastic Marauder grunts and Forge Father steel warriors. Both should consist of dedicated, original, full on sci-fi sculpts, not slightly modified Kings of War leftovers.

I hope mantic would realise the ammount of hassle they would get if they went down that route again.

Huh? Who WOULDN'T want Space Men-at-Arms!?

I know for definite that the Marauders will get a new sprue. I've not heard anything on Forgefathers but it's an almost certainty.

For Marauders, the current sprue will be kept AS WELL as the new sprue. The existing plastics will be made into a young-uns scout unit. It'll be a rite of passage for marauders to get a hand-me-down gun shoved in their hands before they're fully grown and sent off into battle without any training. Any which survive are then given full military training and emerge fully grown as the Marauders we've seen in Deadzone.

Friendly Bunny Rabbit wrote:

 edlowe wrote:

 Vermonter wrote:
I hope that whenever the Warpath KS launches Mantic will seriously consider redoing their hard plastic Marauder grunts and Forge Father steel warriors. Both should consist of dedicated, original, full on sci-fi sculpts, not slightly modified Kings of War leftovers.

I hope mantic would realise the ammount of hassle they would get if they went down that route again.

Huh? Who WOULDN'T want Space Men-at-Arms!?

Since we know a plastic kit for Enforcers is on the way, I think a better question would be: When will they release an accessory pack with equipment so we can run Enforcers in Kings of War?

 Gallahad wrote:

 Vermonter wrote:
I hope that whenever the Warpath KS launches Mantic will seriously consider redoing their hard plastic Marauder grunts and Forge Father steel warriors. Both should consist of dedicated, original, full on sci-fi sculpts, not slightly modified Kings of War leftovers.

Launching your new sci-fi game with weapon swaps from your fantasy line is such a terrible decision on so many levels. I still can't really get over it.

It also permanently cemented Warpath as a space fantasy game with space orcs, space dwarves, space elves, space skaven etc.

Not something it can get away from without a lot of effort. It's trying to, but it got off on the wrong foot, fell flat on its face (lots of people I know play KoW. No-one plays Warpath), and it'll take a lot to get it done properly in a way that actually interests people.

Asterians are now primarily an AI construct faction rather than space elves, and plague were similarly shifted away from the space undead roots. These are quite well-done, I think. Could have easily been fantasy zombies in space, fantasy elves in space, but aren't. Don't like the plague models, mind.. only the zombies, 1st Gen Teraton and Swarm look good to me.

Forgefathers aren't too bad, dwarves are always a hi-tech fantasy race so they feel like a reasonably good fit as space miners. And they don't refer to them as "Dorfz" in the background constantly like they do with Orx which cuts out a lot of the stupidity.

Marauders could be rescued with a change in paint scheme I think... get away from the GW Ork clone style, move towards other barbaric alien designs.. the background is already going that way, but the model design is headed in the opposite direction. I can't see myself ever liking the faction much if remains as the clearest 40k knock-off.

Veer-myn, not really interested in, although a lot of 40k players have been wanting Hrud armies and stuff so I guess there's a market? No idea how well they sell for Mantic.

Does anyone know when the invoice for the second Deadzone wave has to be paid?

I believe 5/31.

There are three things I'd like to see out of a Warpath Kickstarter:

1. Multipart HIPS female infantry. Companies keep promising to do this, then snatching it away. Defiance did it twice, DFG and Raging Heroes are both a year behind schedule for theirs and counting, GW has left the Sisters to rot and McVey went back on his promise to make the Vanguard available for sale. This is incredibly frustrating.

2. At least one good looking modular HIPS vehicle kit. A Rhino/Chimera equivalent with variants for at least an IFV (Chimera/Repressor), MLRS (Whirlwind/Exorcist) and medium tank.

3. HIPS drones. Not Asterian cyborgs, human military robots.

The first is the most important. None of the other stuff is of any use without that foundation of infantry.

I submit drones or an APC/vehicle are plenty useful, even if female infantry is not available.

 AlexHolker wrote:
There are three things I'd like to see out of a Warpath Kickstarter:

1. Multipart HIPS female infantry. Companies keep promising to do this, then snatching it away. Defiance did it twice, DFG and Raging Heroes are both a year behind schedule for theirs and counting, GW has left the Sisters to rot and McVey went back on his promise to make the Vanguard available for sale. This is incredibly frustrating.

There really needs to be a line of human soldier miniatures that include both genders. We've got Victoria's coming, and I plan on buying many, but they are fairly restricted to the GW style "historical minis with lasers".

There actually seems to be more than a few sources of female sci-fi infantry either out or on the way (Raging Heroes should be about 80% done by 2030 or so) but there is rarely a range of male soldiers they'd fit alongside or vice-versa.

I don't get this "no girls allowed" sentiment in sci-fi and the "space amazons" thing that also seems to pop up from time to time. Are we supposed to believe that all armies in the future are incredibly sexist and are completely segregated? Seems a bit daft.

On a side note, give how many manufacturers have promised HIPS and gone back on their word, I am forced to conclude that the method of producing minis in this material is an archeotech mystery from the Dark Age of Technology lost to all except the triad of GW, Renadra, and "the Chinese."

It's not that HIPS is lost, it's that at our tiny scale, for gaming purposes, there's no difference between HIPS and ABS. The differences between the two don't really manifest until you're talking about dinner plate sized single piece slabs that have the chance to see a bit of sunlight and some physical stress.

It's really just easier, and I believe cheaper, to stick with ABS

 CptJake wrote:
I submit drones or an APC/vehicle are plenty useful, even if female infantry is not available.

I agree in the general case. There are many armies which could take advantage of such a chassis and variants, and drones could be slotted into a support role for many armies, or potentially form the bulk of a force themselves. But for me personally, that army does not yet exist, which is why I put them in second place.

 AlexHolker wrote:
There are three things I'd like to see out of a Warpath Kickstarter:

1. Multipart HIPS female infantry. Companies keep promising to do this, then snatching it away. Defiance did it twice, DFG and Raging Heroes are both a year behind schedule for theirs and counting, GW has left the Sisters to rot and McVey went back on his promise to make the Vanguard available for sale. This is incredibly frustrating.

2. At least one good looking modular HIPS vehicle kit. A Rhino/Chimera equivalent with variants for at least an IFV (Chimera/Repressor), MLRS (Whirlwind/Exorcist) and medium tank.

3. HIPS drones. Not Asterian cyborgs, human military robots.

The first is the most important. None of the other stuff is of any use without that foundation of infantry.

Seconding this. I know good, affordable female minis would get my wife (Who is normally far more of an RPG player than a wargamer for a small handful of reasons heavily including this) playing in a heartbeat, and it drives me up a wall that there's not a good source for this stuff out already.

 scarletsquig wrote:


It also permanently cemented Warpath as a space fantasy game with space orcs, space dwarves, space elves, space skaven etc.

Not something it can get away from without a lot of effort. It's trying to, but it got off on the wrong foot, fell flat on its face (lots of people I know play KoW. No-one plays Warpath), and it'll take a lot to get it done properly in a way that actually interests people.

Dunno. I might be a minority, but I'd rather see a not-40k-done-well (aka KoW) than another boring generic doomed-to-fail sci-fi game and setting. (Hi, GoA!) KoW works for me because I can use my existing collection of models, and supplement them with the models that Mantic manage to do well (Undead, Ogres). If I could do the same with my 40k figures and add in the stuff that Mantic manage to do well (Enforcers, um.. maybe 2nd-gen Forgefathers?) then I'll have a reason to give WarPath a go and play. 7th edition of 40k is just making me likely to go back to 1st, 3rd or 5th edition....




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 darkPrince010 wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:
There are three things I'd like to see out of a Warpath Kickstarter:

1. Multipart HIPS female infantry. Companies keep promising to do this, then snatching it away. Defiance did it twice, DFG and Raging Heroes are both a year behind schedule for theirs and counting, GW has left the Sisters to rot and McVey went back on his promise to make the Vanguard available for sale. This is incredibly frustrating.

Seconding this. I know good, affordable female minis would get my wife (Who is normally far more of an RPG player than a wargamer for a small handful of reasons heavily including this) playing in a heartbeat, and it drives me up a wall that there's not a good source for this stuff out already.

The best ones out there at the moment are Vic's Arcadians, but they're $50 for a squad of 10. A nice characterful add-on, but too much for me to build an army out of.

 Azazelx wrote:

Dunno. I might be a minority, but I'd rather see a not-40k-done-well (aka KoW) than another boring generic doomed-to-fail sci-fi game and setting. (Hi, GoA!) KoW works for me because I can use my existing collection of models, and supplement them with the models that Mantic manage to do well (Undead, Ogres). If I could do the same with my 40k figures and add in the stuff that Mantic manage to do well (Enforcers, um.. maybe 2nd-gen Forgefathers?) then I'll have a reason to give WarPath a go and play. 7th edition of 40k is just making me likely to go back to 1st, 3rd or 5th edition....
.

Thing is, I think they may have already gone as far as they can in terms of making factions that resemble the 40k ones, and the est is going to have to be up to your imagination - so many of the armies have a distinct art style, and in some cases also a provenance that GW can reasonably claim was theirs, that if Mantic were to skirt too close to them, the lawyers would sally forth.

IG/Corp and Orks/Marauders are the most generic, and that's why they're close, but Mantic super soldiers and space elves can't resemble GW super soldiers and space elves except in the most basic terms of troop availability, and even then I can't see them stretching out the rules just to accommodate every new $100 kit that comes out.

I think using your imagination, and accepting that you'll be able to use some-to-most of your GW stuff as proxies, but never all, is the best you're going to be able to do.

Even at the worst end of it, the open ended nature of the Rebs means you could make an army of them out of Tau, Dark Eldar, Chaos Daemons (aliens of all kinds!) and CSM (humans and aliens in gussied up captured Enforcer gear), while SoB can just be female members of the Enforcers.

I think it's asking far too much to expect anything more than that.

They don't need to resemble them directly and visually - though space elves already has a prescedent before Eldar - Vulcans. So Asterians as that trope should be fine, especially since they already have orcs, dwarves, ratmenskaven, etc. Enforcers are fine as is visually. They just need an army list that contains a few(!) more options that would be easily substituted from entries in C:SM/C:BA/CA/C:CSM, etc.

Hell, I'd double down on the Science-Fantasy aspect and get Ogres, Trolls, Basileans, Abyssals, Broo...

40k-friendly is where the money is/will be...

Factions that are mechanically similar (and thus an excuse for the rules to support GW miniatures) are good. Just flat out copying the Science-Fantasy aspect I disagree with, especially when so many of Mantic's fantasy races are so very ugly.

Well, what units in those can't you find spots for?

Enforcers = Marines, Peacekeepers = Terminators, and when they finish turning them into a full army rather than just Corporation elites I imagine they'll have a heavy weapons team = devastators. A bike and recon units were added in Deadzone, so that will cover bikes and scouts, while either Centurions or Dreads should pass for Striders, plus tanks, APCs and flyers are part of the plan for every army. Landspeeders and Assault Marines are the only things without homes that stand out to me right now.

CSM with their chaotic spiky extras aren't really going to find much of a home unless you run them as Rebs and squint, in which case there's options - all Marine types as regular rebs or missile teams or cc or whatever basic infantry as the weapon in their hand suits, Helbrutes and Dreads as striders, Terminators as Teratons, vehicles falling into place, etc

NTRabbit wrote:
Well, what units in those can't you find spots for?

I haven't exactly looked carefully at WP or DZ, but lots of specific units across pretty much all of the 40k armies from Tyranids to Tau.


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 AlexHolker wrote:
Factions that are mechanically similar (and thus an excuse for the rules to support GW miniatures) are good. Just flat out copying the Science-Fantasy aspect I disagree with, especially when so many of Mantic's fantasy races are so very ugly.

There's no need to buy their figures when they're gakky. Just like KoW. I just want to see things covered by their rules. Or someone's decent rules.

NTRabbit wrote:
Well, what units in those can't you find spots for?

Enforcers = Marines, Peacekeepers = Terminators, and when they finish turning them into a full army rather than just Corporation elites I imagine they'll have a heavy weapons team = devastators. A bike and recon units were added in Deadzone, so that will cover bikes and scouts, while either Centurions or Dreads should pass for Striders, plus tanks, APCs and flyers are part of the plan for every army. Landspeeders and Assault Marines are the only things without homes that stand out to me right now.

CSM with their chaotic spiky extras aren't really going to find much of a home unless you run them as Rebs and squint, in which case there's options - all Marine types as regular rebs or missile teams or cc or whatever basic infantry as the weapon in their hand suits, Helbrutes and Dreads as striders, Terminators as Teratons, vehicles falling into place, etc

Devestators = Suppression Team, Assaut Marines = Assault team. It's a very easy proxy situation that is about to get easier.

I'm not sure the DA/BA/SW codexes really need direct translation, though some rules to encapsulate the "spirit" of those "variation" Codexes might be a good way to bulk out the Enforcers to their own full-fledged list representing different ships that conform themselves to various Council member's whims and predilections.

When they add in the Plague adding a few units as "Strains" to encompass the Daemon range would be pretty neat and tidy. Double down with Plagued Enforcers (which DZ has established as extant in the universe) and you could rope in CSM. Hell, at that point the WP rules would allow for a LatD army better than GW's own.

The Tau could fall in as the Rebs (since both are a conglomeration of aliens anyway). Things like the Riptide could be problematic even though the Strider could do a decent job as battlesuits.

The Tyranids as Veer-myn is a bit of a stretch since in WP I don't see the Veer-myn being scary gigantic close-combat monsters. The idea of planet-consuming swams is pretty much a sci-fi trope though so it's not like they have to worry about the lawyers overmuch here. The Nameless could certainly fill in here and would prompt much "squee"-ing among the people who model their 'Nids with tentacles anyway.

As I said earlier, I believe Azazelx is correct that a well-done ruleset that encompasses most of the 40k range will see much better results than not doing so. It won't result in increased model sales initially, which is certainly a concern for Mantic, but if you get a solid playerbase going and then offer quality models at a lower price point then you will likely capture sales of new players and new armies.

 Krinsath wrote:

The Tyranids as Veer-myn is a bit of a stretch since in WP I don't see the Veer-myn being scary gigantic close-combat monsters. The idea of planet-consuming swams is pretty much a sci-fi trope though so it's not like they have to worry about the lawyers overmuch here. The Nameless could certainly fill in here and would prompt much "squee"-ing among the people who model their 'Nids with tentacles anyway.

I'm sorry if I missed something, but I thought the insectoid Z'zor would have been a closer Tyranid analogue? I had the Nameless down as far more civilised than a swarm type race- actually the Kalimarin Ancients team blurb says "The Nameless Confederation is home to many related species living in harmony". I don't know, that gives me the impression they aren't a ravening swarm devouring everything in it's path. Especially as a confederation which suggests a capacity for diplomacy and treaties and suchlike. Could be wrong though.

Zz'or aren't necessarily a planet-consuming swarm, generally Warpath avoids the 40k thing where every race is pimped up as the doom of the galaxy.

The largest threat is humanity, which is described as spreading like a cancer across the galaxy. So far its only permanent border is the Death Arc (filled with long-dead worlds hit by Plague infestation), and places where it can't advance (forgefather star realm).

Zz'or are described as a hornet's nest that the Corporation poked, not as some planet-eating hivemind.

Nameless are extremely friendly, with the exception of some sub-species. They're also extremely deadly and numerous and far away so the Corporation isn't messing with them just yet.

Forgefathers are the tyranids of the Warpath universe, they will reduce a planet to bedrock (including the removal of atmosphere/ water) , then break apart the planet itself and make use of the rubble. There have been instances of a Corporation selling mining rights to a planet to the Forgefathers without fully understanding exactly what that entails.

They can live on their colossal starships in comfort and see habitable planets as resources to be made use of.

 scarletsquig wrote:
Zz'or aren't necessarily a planet-consuming swarm, generally Warpath avoids the 40k thing where every race is pimped up as the doom of the galaxy.

The largest threat is humanity, which is described as spreading like a cancer across the galaxy. So far its only permanent border is the Death Arc (filled with long-dead worlds hit by Plague infestation), and places where it can't advance (forgefather star realm).

Zz'or are described as a hornet's nest that the Corporation poked, not as some planet-eating hivemind.

Nameless are extremely friendly, with the exception of some sub-species. They're also extremely deadly and numerous and far away so the Corporation isn't messing with them just yet.

Forgefathers are the tyranids of the Warpath universe, they will reduce a planet to bedrock (including the removal of atmosphere/ water) , then break apart the planet itself and make use of the rubble. There have been instances of a Corporation selling mining rights to a planet to the Forgefathers without fully understanding exactly what that entails.

They can live on their colossal starships in comfort and see habitable planets as resources to be made use of.

Z'zor only swarm to protect their homeworlds, is that right? I'm sure I read that at some point.

I would love to see the Nameless Confederation fleshed out though. The whole concept of them- from aesthetics to the snippets of background we have so far- is awesome.

 scarletsquig wrote:
Forgefathers are the tyranids of the Warpath universe, they will reduce a planet to bedrock (including the removal of atmosphere/ water) , then break apart the planet itself and make use of the rubble. There have been instances of a Corporation selling mining rights to a planet to the Forgefathers without fully understanding exactly what that entails.

rofl, I like that. There's no such thing as digging too deep when you can just vaporise whatever balrog pops up down there. Mantic do have some great lore in Warpath, I hope to see it continue developing, perhaps a little more realistic and less cheesy than 40k if possible ; p