Poll: 40k AoS style rewrite. What do you do?

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**KnuckleWolf**

90 Day poll.

The rewrite does all the things AoS did. No more point system, simplified combat, new turn structure, etc. What do you do with it, or with what you already have?

Dakka casual.

**TheCustomLime**

Quit, sell my stuff and play Warmachine.

EDIT: Except my 30k stuff. I'd probably come up with a 6.5 edition with my group and just play that.

**TheNewBlood**

Look into X-Wing and Warmahordes. Declare that 7th edition will form the foundation for a "living ruleset" to be worked out by others, preferably the ITC.

**Vaktathi**

If they redid 40k as they did Fantasy, like exactly?

I don't think I'd bother with it much. AoS felt (like much of what GW does these days), lazy to the point of actually going out of its way to be lazy, and I haven't seen it do anything to revive WHFB.

Now, I'd be all for a 40k reboot a-la 2E/3E. I think the game is a bloated, unfocused mess that does nothing well, and could very much use a reboot, but I don't think an AoS style reboot is the answer.

**jonolikespie**

I don't currently play 40k but I keep an eye out hoping it might get better.

That would kill my hope.

**KnuckleWolf**

@Vaktathi not sure about exactly but yes very close? The themes would stay true. Likely not a copy and paste though.

**Vaktathi**

KnuckleWolf wrote:
@Vaktathi not sure about exactly but yes very close? The themes would stay true. Likely not a copy and paste though.

I could live with completely redone mechanics and turn structure, however, the increasing irrelevance of points and quickly disappearing cohesion of army lists already has caused me to drastically cut back play and spending, if they were to be eliminated entirely, it would probably kill any desire to play.

Unless they were going to change really how the game functions and bring out more clearly defined gaming scenarios like those found in older hex games or Battletech or the like where deployment and forces are pretty much pre-determined and you're playing out scenarios on a more "historical" model.

**Peregrine**

Never play it, keep playing an older edition if there are enough opponents available. AoS is an unplayable mess, and 40k version of AoS would be just as bad.

**KnuckleWolf**

Interesting. I've been away for some time, not that I'm back really mind you, just exploring, so could you explain what you mean by increasing irrelevance of points and any cohesion? I haven't even cracked the book on the new edition.

**Vaktathi**

KnuckleWolf wrote:
Interesting. I've been away for some time, not that I'm back really mind you, just exploring, so could you explain what you mean by increasing irrelevance of points and any cohesion? I haven't even cracked the book on the new edition.

basically, an army used to be built from a Codex using the Force Organization Chart that restricted the number and type of units one could bring. About the craziest thing you'd get would be some Imperial Armour books having extra units that weren't in the codex or their own army lists, but everything basically was self contained and followed the same structure. There was at least ostensibly some sort of baseline everyone was working from there.

At this point, an "army" can be composed of 3-4 different factions and as many "detachments" allowing one to bring just about anything in any quantity, and get massive rules bonuses for doing so. Or you can go Unbound and just take literally whatever you want.

On top of that, with regards to points values, they're increasingly either irrelevant or have no connection to the game reality. When Wraithguard got a bump from S10 to D weapons, really just to match some outdated 2E fluff from what I can tell, and GW didn't increase their points at all. When a Wraithknight became a GC and its S10 guns were upgraded to D weapons, it went up in price maybe 20% for vastly increased killing power and survivability? Formations give bonus free special rules, sometimes even wargear and entire units, at zero additional cost.

Playing against an ostensibly "1850pt" Mechanicus War Convocation formation that got almost 600pts of free wargear (not to mention benefits like ignoring Gets Hot! and allow Cult Mechanicus rules to apply to Knights and Skitarii), and tunctionally playing at probably closer to a 2700pt capability, that really sealed my decision to cease attending events.

**Peregrine**

KnuckleWolf wrote:
Interesting. I've been away for some time, not that I'm back really mind you, just exploring, so could you explain what you mean by increasing irrelevance of points and any cohesion? I haven't even cracked the book on the new edition.

Formations that give out hundreds of points worth of free upgrades/transports/etc, army construction that is now unbound in all but name, and a general failure to have point costs that are even remotely balanced.

**Resin Glazed Guardsman**

I don't see much wrong in sticking with an older edition.

**Wyzilla**

Depends on how much the fluff gets mauled- the only reason why I even care about 40k is because of the fluff and campaigns, without it's just a pretty poor horribly expensive miniatures game. If they squat Dark Angels, or purge so many Space Marine models I can't continue my Chapter, yeah, feth you GW.

Because even if the rules are horrible, you can still have fluffy campaigns if your models are still being made and your fluff is still safe. If they squat everything, well it's like what happened to Bretonnians. They write off your entire faction and basically spit in your face while at it. I can deal with the rules and setting getting AOS'd so long as some of the fluff and factions remain intact.

**JohnHwangDD**

The idea that GW learned nothing from AOS is nonsense.

GW will simplify 40k at some point, because 7E is a bloated mess that is at odds with the gaming culture that the promote.

I'd expect 40k to adopt from AOS:
* a radically simplified core ruleset
* simplified unit Datafaxes with all of their details and rules on the page
* dicing for turn initiative
These are GOOD changes and help balance the game.

I'd expect 40k to retain:
* core 40k universe setting
* $50+ full-color Codices with loads of Fluff and pictures
* basic point costs for units and key options
* army formations
There is no reason for GW to change any of this, as the current 40k universe still makes money for GW.

**Toofast**

I would play 30k with the 7E BRB. It's far more balanced and with a few house rules is an awesome game. No unbound, LOW are restricted to games they belong in, nobody gets 600 points of free stuff for buying the newest models, etc.

**pwntallica**

Try it at least. See if it worked for me and my local scene. If not, just play an older edition. Probably a hybrid of 5th + some newer 6th/7th stuff. If the local players dried up, just move on to another miniature game I guess.

**koooaei**

Will be a good opportunity to get together and finally write good rules and codex faq-s. Cause now everyone acknowledges they're pretty bad but the fact that they're oficial and still somewhat playable makes them accepted.
But that's if people would like to stick to 40k. It's pretty possible they'll say: "Feth it, i just want to play a half-decent game without a need to reinvent it myself".

**jonolikespie**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
I'd expect 40k to retain:
* core 40k universe setting
* $50+ full-color Codices with loads of Fluff and pictures
* basic point costs for units and key options
* army formations
There is no reason for GW to change any of this, as the current 40k universe still makes money for GW.

If GW AoSifies 40k points will be removed from it too.

Jervis and the boys at Nottingham seem to think that is the superior way to play and now that it is implemented in fantasy I don't see them backing down from that position even if AoS tanks. Their response will be to do the same damn thing to 40k and blame it's failure on the fact that Fantasy just wasn't as popular as 40k.

**JohnHwangDD**

Jervis and co don't want to do points for Fantasy, because Fantasy is a product that they don't want to waste a lot of time on. 40k will continue to have arbitrary points from GW, and Jervis will continue to laugh about how players get wound up over "points".

**jonolikespie**

Given that they have been working on AoS since 2013 I highly doubt that they dismissed points because they didn't want to waste time. This is the new direction of GW game designed and we have already seen 40k going in that direction with unbound.

The end goal is to throw whatever models you want on the table and roll dice with some close friends.
They are halfway there, all that's left is removing the points.

**KnuckleWolf**

Yikes. That's insane. From the sound of it, you already have a unplayable mess of a game in front of you. I left back when formations were first starting and you were allowed the one detachment. Did not know it had gotten even worse. :/

Sounds super sarcastic, but I ask in all seriousness: what's the difference between a game whose point buy system is irrelevant, and a game that doesn't have point buy system at all?

I know the Pick up and play games are a lot easier to get going when you just need a set number to start with for all games and can have that list put together ahead of time. Which is also something of a requirement for tournament play if your into it. But AoS had showed me (much to my amazement) it's not necessary to have it for at least the pick up games part.

Another question: if there was some other arbitrary limiter installed in place of points, would that effect your decision?

Dakka casual!

**Lithlandis Stormcrow**

jonolikespie wrote:
Given that they have been working on AoS since 2013 I highly doubt that they dismissed points because they didn't want to waste time. This is the new direction of GW game designed and we have already seen 40k going in that direction with unbound.

The end goal is to throw whatever models you want on the table and roll dice with some close friends.
They are halfway there, all that's left is removing the points.

This.

As to what I'll do? I'll play anything but that, while drinking the tasty, tasty tears of the people who staunchly defended that "40k will never AoS'd".

**KnuckleWolf**

What is "Unbound"??

**Lithlandis Stormcrow**

KnuckleWolf wrote:
What is "Unbound"??

Take whatever you want. No army composition, no points barrier. Nothing.

Free For All clusterfeth.

**jonolikespie**

Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:
KnuckleWolf wrote:
What is "Unbound"??

Take whatever you want. No army composition, no points barrier. Nothing.

Free For All clusterfeth.

Well not technically, that's basically AoS.

Unbound is in 40k where you throw the force organisation chart out the window but you still use the points.

The problem there is that with points they are still masquerading as a system that tries to be balanced, at least with AoS you know what you are getting going in.

**Peregrine**

KnuckleWolf wrote:
What is "Unbound"??

Put whatever units you want on the table, up to the point limit (if you and your opponent agreed to use one). You still have to bring legal units (no tactical squads with every model armed with a melta gun or whatever), but there's no FOC, no restriction on what codices/supplements/whatever you can bring units from, etc. So you can bring three Baneblades, a tactical squad, some Tyranid MCs, an inquisitor, a crisis suit, a GK character, and a demon character.

The only thing you lose by doing this is your warlord trait (lol).

**Lithlandis Stormcrow**

jonolikespie wrote:
Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:
KnuckleWolf wrote:
What is "Unbound"??

Take whatever you want. No army composition, no points barrier. Nothing.

Free For All clusterfeth.

Well not technically, that's basically AoS.

Unbound is in 40k where you throw the force organisation chart out the window but you still use the points.

The problem there is that with points they are still masquerading as a system that tries to be balanced, at least with AoS you know what you are getting going in.

Well, true enough. I expressed myself wrongly when I wrote "no points barrier" as I know points are still used

. I think I should've wrote "Apocalypse-level points advised" or "No point limit" or something alike :p

**commander dante**

I Feel like GW is gonna give AoS type rules to the plastic 30k 'game' coming out to see if it works and if people like it (based on sales)
However people will mostly buy it for the models, not the rules
so GW will be like "based on our sales, people like this ruleset!" and change 40k, for the worse...

**Kilkrazy**

I presume that an AoS style rewrite of 40K would involve free rules and codexes, so I would be on it like badgers on a toupet.

There are two main things that scared me away from 40K, the price and the increasing complexity and crappiness of the rules.

**krodarklorr**

I'd give it a try. At this state in the game, I'd welcome the changes.