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Local tournament recently where I ran into a silly death Star. There were 8 or 9 thunderwolves all with stormshields, half with rending swords the other half with axes, with a tooled up lord who gets like 7 attacks at str 10, with three white scars librarians on bikes for librarius conclave. He also had mephiston in a pod with scouts, he would drop ahead midfield of the bikes and join them for more possible str 10. The rest of the army was a knight with battle cannon and scouts.

Due to endurance, my all dread ork army couldn't kill them before I lost every dread, gorkamorkanaut, and killa kan could get that unit below half. His knight also did work.

Now he did have trouble at the very end with a nid player who had enough dice to deny invis every turn, but he still won from points. Now I can't think of much orks can do, other than a culexus ally disrupting buffs at just the right time. Assuming your local tournament can't see how insane 4+ allies in an army can be, how would you beat a t5, eternal warrior, 12 inch move, high str eternal warrior blob with hit and run?

Edit: I forgot he also had a blood angels apothecary on a bike for FnP

If you got the divination power for rending it wouldn't be too bad, if you're an ork player then could you not take a stompa? Just a thought, if you took down that knight it would appear that his ranged capability goes down very dramatically. Otherwise sheer weight of dice would hopefully kill them off as not much there seems to have a 2+ save. Or if you spam boyz in trukks you can easily outrun most of that army, as; lets be fair, jinking doesn't greatly reduce an orks effectiveness.

Throw your own strong invisible unit at it (preferably a sword & board wraithknight), block hit and run, kill troops, win game.

Buy gun
Find this guy
Shoot everyone of his models in front of him

jackl1324 wrote:
If you got the divination power for rending it wouldn't be too bad, if you're an ork player then could you not take a stompa? Just a thought, if you took down that knight it would appear that his ranged capability goes down very dramatically. Otherwise sheer weight of dice would hopefully kill them off as not much there seems to have a 2+ save. Or if you spam boyz in trukks you can easily outrun most of that army, as; lets be fair, jinking doesn't greatly reduce an orks effectiveness.

Orks can't get divination, stompas will generally lose to knights (low initiative, can't kill it at ranged), ork vehicles aren't that much faster than Calvary and can't jink regardless.

As for how to kill that......basically anything tougher than an ork boy will get doubled out or wrecked in CC. Big blobs of boyz could do the job eventually, or you could shoot them down. But a dread mob v. just about any kind of deathstar, much less a deathstar backed up by a knight, is pretty much auto-lose.

 Rypher wrote:
Throw your own strong invisible unit at it (preferably a sword & board wraithknight), block hit and run, kill troops, win game.

How do you block Hit and Run? Surround the combat with other units? Also can a Hit and Run move be used to move through opponents models locked in combat with the unit using Hit and Run?

A wraithknight would die quite easily to this. There are enough goons to eat the d sword attacks, and mephiston and his leader put out so many str 10 attacks a round its not funny.

What WAS funny though was that stompa suggestion. Pure comedy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hit and run was just to get out of units that could possibly tie up this unit, like 12 necrons wraiths or a green tide. It wasent even necessary for him the entire tourney. Anything they touched went poof in the first round of combat generally.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 astro_nomicon wrote:

 Rypher wrote:
Throw your own strong invisible unit at it (preferably a sword & board wraithknight), block hit and run, kill troops, win game.

How do you block Hit and Run? Surround the combat with other units? Also can a Hit and Run move be used to move through opponents models locked in combat with the unit using Hit and Run?

Yes. If you are smack dab in the middle of 30 orks, you can still get out. Its how it works and by using the libraries from white scars, he got two huge benefits.

How many points was all that?

 Orock wrote:
Local tournament recently where I ran into a silly death Star. There were 8 or 9 thunderwolves all with stormshields, half with rending swords the other half with axes, with a tooled up lord who gets like 7 attacks at str 10, with three white scars librarians on bikes for librarius conclave. He also had mephiston in a pod with scouts, he would drop ahead midfield of the bikes and join them for more possible str 10. The rest of the army was a knight with battle cannon and scouts.

Due to endurance, my all dread ork army couldn't kill them before I lost every dread, gorkamorkanaut, and killa kan could get that unit below half. His knight also did work.

Now he did have trouble at the very end with a nid player who had enough dice to deny invis every turn, but he still won from points. Now I can't think of much orks can do, other than a culexus ally disrupting buffs at just the right time. Assuming your local tournament can't see how insane 4+ allies in an army can be, how would you beat a t5, eternal warrior, 12 inch move, high str eternal warrior blob with hit and run?

Edit: I forgot he also had a blood angels apothecary on a bike for FnP

You generally don't. This exact type of list has won several major tournaments, largely because it's so autopilot to play as most armies can't appreciably stop such a death star once it gets Endurance off.

That said, if you've got a ton of volume-of-fire shooting and get first turn (or they just don't get Endurance/Invisibility on their psychic rolls for some reason), then you can soften them up fairly well.

With Orks, I don't think there's a particularly great answer. Other armies can resort to things like D weapons, something like IG Manticores can prove helpful, but overall, this type of army does well for much the same reason Necrons do, in that it's impossible for most armies to deal any meaningful harm to it.

Ally with Tau
Get Tau'nar
Done.

This would kill that especially if it got in is as tau has no psychic answer.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

jackl1324 wrote:
If you got the divination power for rending it wouldn't be too bad, if you're an ork player then could you not take a stompa? Just a thought, if you took down that knight it would appear that his ranged capability goes down very dramatically. Otherwise sheer weight of dice would hopefully kill them off as not much there seems to have a 2+ save. Or if you spam boyz in trukks you can easily outrun most of that army, as; lets be fair, jinking doesn't greatly reduce an orks effectiveness.

Orks can't get divination, stompas will generally lose to knights (low initiative, can't kill it at ranged), ork vehicles aren't that much faster than Calvary and can't jink regardless.

As for how to kill that......basically anything tougher than an ork boy will get doubled out or wrecked in CC. Big blobs of boyz could do the job eventually, or you could shoot them down. But a dread mob v. just about any kind of deathstar, much less a deathstar backed up by a knight, is pretty much auto-lose.

Thought they were fast vehicles? flat out moves and a red paint job means you can get across most boards very quickly, at least in my experience facing orks. Fair enough regards stompa, not well versed with the rules myself but have had to deal with the forgeworld version a few times and that has a couple of D weapons, which will kill that knight (or most of the other units for that matter) quite easily


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Orock wrote:
A wraithknight would die quite easily to this. There are enough goons to eat the d sword attacks, and mephiston and his leader put out so many str 10 attacks a round its not funny.

What WAS funny though was that stompa suggestion. Pure comedy.

Glad to help

Outscore them.

This sounds very close to the NOVA champion list. Its not hard to beat. You just have to understand how it is played. For orks, its an up hill battle. Stompa can put out the fire power to eliminate it, but once the str 10 attacks hit you are toast. You need mobility and lots of fire power. Personally, I think lots of flyers would be the answer. You directly negate his ability to melee. Also, you are going to need to do a little bit of a cat and mouse game. Which for orks is hard. Orks you just want to run up and punch them. Now you have to be clever and position your self that you for him to break the death star if he wants to deal with you.

Fight cheese with cheese.

Your army has no mobility with all Killa Kans. May be a problem.

Orks probably just try and tie it up. That's a lot of points for one unit and he's not bringing much to the field. For orks lots of boys would help. Grot screens would be useful too, line em up and either he spends a charge on them or shoots them. Either one is good for you. Then just shoot a lot, lootas, mek guns will work for that.

 Hawkeye888 wrote:
Grot screens would be useful too, line em up and either he spends a charge on them or shoots them.

This may be the cheapest option, just drown him in grots and he'll have to drive around. don't charge with the grots, just run up and fence him off. Max out the number of units so when he sweeps he doesn't take out all of them.

You can't tie this unit up it has hit and run. And 6 units of grots is not helpful anywhere else for a tournament list. Its just not a list orks could beat and still have a chance against anything else.

 Orock wrote:
You can't tie this unit up it has hit and run. And 6 units of grots is not helpful anywhere else for a tournament list.

MSU grots are great at swiping maelstrom points once or twice a game. If you're using 2 CADs you'll have all the troop slots you need, and grots are dirt cheap. They can help block out drop pods, absorb overwatch, fence, camp, and even shoot. For the cost, they are one of the most versatile units in the Ork codex.

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Hawkeye888 wrote:
Grot screens would be useful too, line em up and either he spends a charge on them or shoots them.

This may be the cheapest option, just drown him in grots and he'll have to drive around. don't charge with the grots, just run up and fence him off. Max out the number of units so when he sweeps he doesn't take out all of them.

This is exactly what a lot of tyranid armies can do with Mucolid Spores. Str 8 explosions if ignored. (In combat, so works against invis IIRC) If not ignored, you just spent an entire turn killing.....a 15 point unit. Use your reserves smartly and win the game in the movement phase as best you can. That star can take exactly one objective, and if someone departs from the star, focus it down for the kill point.

This may or may not have been said already...

Green Tide?

Bait his drop pod with an "open spot" in the tide place the PKs in the right spots.

Even with the 20+ attacks that the death star gets, you'll tie him up for the game and allow your grots to get those objectives.

You won't tie him up, because the white scars component grants hit and run. And shooting isn't the answer either when they have 4+ psykers trying to roll invis. Throw 6 dice at it and succeed on a 2+ and even all knights with battle cannons can't shoot them off.

So I lost to a similar list recently except that he had sisters in their for re-rollable saves in close combat. If I had faced the army you described I probably would have done pretty well. I run green tide and daemon allies. Fateweaver + Pink horrors + screamerstar. The green tide+ misfortune or with hammerhand up has the number of attacks to sufficiently weaken a unit like this. Obviously, orks have very few of the good blessings available to them, however, with maledictions, allied psykers can be quite effective.

I wish I could help you with beating them with a walker list but I never played that and I don't have any useful experience to draw from for advice.

edit: Just saw your comment about invisibility. It's true, its brutal if they get it off. I have 17-20 psykic dice so I can usually deny it or force them to throw all their dice at it.

Green tide + screamerstar and 17 psychic dice is really just screamerstar with a bodyguard. It's more Daemon than ork. I don't think the OP was really looking to switch armies.

Personally i would go with nob bikers and normal bikers for extra wounds, pretty much bring the can openers with either a painboy on warbike or a big mek with a kff or a shokk attack gun or both, pretty much wanna glance anything with hall points to death or just plain krump them, the big mek with a kff on a warbike with the painboy will get soooo annoying if you have enough normal bikers to act like a meat shield. wouldnt hurt to have some mek guns to help out or so either

Kff will do nothing. That list beats you up in meelee. Unless you are heavily list tailoring to hear this you probably won't outside imperium culexus ally shenanigans.

 JimOnMars wrote:
Green tide + screamerstar and 17 psychic dice is really just screamerstar with a bodyguard. It's more Daemon than ork. I don't think the OP was really looking to switch armies.

You're partially right. My army is still majority ork with my warlord as orks. I also modeled all my daemons as orks so it still feels like an army of orks. I still love my orks and still want to play them but I'm a competitive guy so this is what I do. This is the 7th edition and unless your necron or eldar, allies are how you fill in weakness. Most codexes don't have all the answers.

 vercingatorix wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
Green tide + screamerstar and 17 psychic dice is really just screamerstar with a bodyguard. It's more Daemon than ork. I don't think the OP was really looking to switch armies.

You're partially right. My army is still majority ork with my warlord as orks. I also modeled all my daemons as orks so it still feels like an army of orks. I still love my orks and still want to play them but I'm a competitive guy so this is what I do. This is the 7th edition and unless your necron or eldar, allies are how you fill in weakness. Most codexes don't have all the answers.

This guy gets it. Although really, most codices Crons and onward have been at about their level, and there are a few notable older ones (Daemons and Nids, for example) that do have a competitive build or two.

I'm firmly of the opinion that anyone can play a normal game against Joe Six Pack and do just fine with any army. There are always things that you as a general can do better even if you're at somewhat of a disadvantage due to the list. But the point is that it's not insurmountable against most lists and most opponents. Sure what that guy was running was basically a hardcore tournament list (or at least part of one) and obviously it's tough to have answers for it, which is why it's in a tournament. There are not a whole lot of armies that can compete at the highest level without allies as is, so if you're set on being a fluff bunny that's all fine and good - you just won't win any GTs with your list. At least, not until GW updates all the codices for 7th. With the current release schedule, it doesn't look like anyone has all that long to wait.

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” - Sun Tzu, The Art of War

1. Run fast, MSU orks. Preferably a bunch of bikers.

2. Spread out the objectives as far away from each other as possible.

3. Now play to the objectives, and throw him scary-looking but inconsequential distraction units for his star to munch on.


The only way to really kill is to hit it with a strong alpha-strike before it gets the chance to power-up. Orks just don't have that capability (to cripple it on T1) so don't even bother.

koooaei wrote:Outscore them.

This is the true answer for deathstars when playing armies like Orks (ie any army before Crons in the release schedule). Take a bunch of fast units and disperse them around the board killing anything that is not the over 1000 pts deathstar and claiming objectives. If you do this right the deathstar will kill 1 unit every other turn and you should have a decent shot at winning. Still will probably not be an even game depending on the tournament rule packet as most of them except ITC tend to favor deathstar builds but you should still have a 30%+ chance to win. In ITC it would be extremely likely for you to win against this type of army with a good MSU Ork list (usually mostly biker, war copter, and tank busta in transport).

As for killing this. With pure Orks that is extremely unlikely. Pretty much any answer to this is going to be allies doing all the heavy lifting. There are a few FW LoW choices that could help somewhat and would have a chance but it still is not a good chance.

It would be interesting to calculate how long it would take for this unit to eat a green tide but I am sure it wouldn't matter as the unit can bounce out of combat, have the rest of the army shoot the greentide and bounce back in to finish it.