Switch Theme:

Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






Peregrine, I still think Sentinels have a great place in any list, because for 35 points they're a fairly durable unit for the Engineers secondary in ITC. If the objective is behind some LOS blocking terrain, just park the Sentinels on it, and they'll almost certainly survive since they're much harder to damage with most indirect fire weapons than anything else.

If you find yourself with some points left over in an army list after taking what you want, there's really no better way to spend 35 extra points IMO.
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






Sure, in an ITC list if you're playing by that set of house rules, and even then you're still talking about the cheapest possible option and not upgrading them with bigger guns. Cheap Sentinels are ok for a few things, my objection is to trying to put expensive guns on them and turn a cheap utility unit and FOC slot filler into a bad attempt at being a LRBT.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Heroic Senior Officer





Murray, Kentucky

Horst wrote:Peregrine, I still think Sentinels have a great place in any list, because for 35 points they're a fairly durable unit for the Engineers secondary in ITC. If the objective is behind some LOS blocking terrain, just park the Sentinels on it, and they'll almost certainly survive since they're much harder to damage with most indirect fire weapons than anything else.

If you find yourself with some points left over in an army list after taking what you want, there's really no better way to spend 35 extra points IMO.

I guess that works, but that's the first time I've heard of a sentinel being the optimal choice for a job.
Peregrine wrote:Sure, in an ITC list if you're playing by that set of house rules, and even then you're still talking about the cheapest possible option and not upgrading them with bigger guns. Cheap Sentinels are ok for a few things, my objection is to trying to put expensive guns on them and turn a cheap utility unit and FOC slot filler into a bad attempt at being a LRBT.

To be fair that set of house rules is one of the most established for competitive play. Like it or not, if we're talking tactics, it needs to be considered for many people.

I'd also have to agree with this. The only way I could sentinels working is if you were taking something like 30 alongside a bunch of tauroxes and other T6 units to try and super saturate that bracket, and even there I feel the smarter way would be leman Russ/chimera/Valkyrie spam. Unless you take Tallarn as your regiment, you have an army of Ork walkers whenever you attempt to move, and you really need to be moving if you plan on winning games. Compare it to it's obvious competitors, leman Russe's and Hellhounds variants, and the sentinel really just doesn't have a lot going for it. It's not as tough or powerful on the move as a leman Russ, and it's not as fast and aggressive as a Hellhound. So if it can't do either of those, what niche is it filling besides looking cool?

The only upside I can think of is that they're the cheapest in terms of raw wounds, so if you were in an area with a ton of AP4 or mortal wounds they might have edge. Now if they could still do stuff like outflank that'd be one thing, but when all we have is the paltry scout move it's really not much. They're cool for narrative and fluff games, but I just fail to see any sort of edge they have over our other backbone units like leman Russe's.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/03 18:17:38


'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




I see great potential in Tallarn Sentinels. 50 pts for lascannon platform which is mobile, hardish (you need to dedicate AT to kill it), not degrading and very threatening. If you are aiming for brigade and/or using Tallarn they are very good for their points. Do not forget that Ambush stratagem allows you to outflank with up to 3 sentinels which is nice.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/04 10:21:04


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Heroic Senior Officer





Murray, Kentucky

Gnollu wrote:
I see great potential in Tallarn Sentinels. 50 pts for lascannon platform which is mobile, hardish (you need to dedicate AT to kill it), not degrading and very threatening. If you are aiming for brigade and/or using Tallarn they are very good for their points. Do not forget that Ambush stratagem allows you to outflank with up to 3 sentinels which is nice.


I mean if you want a lascannon platform that can shoot and move the leman Russ Annihilator can do that. It'll put out 4 shots on a leman Russ profile while moving and shooting 5" a turn with no penalties, and you'll get other regiments traits on top.

Maybe not exactly comparable, but even there it's a competition, and you can outflank 3 Russe's, a much more efficient use of CP and a much bigger threat

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in de
Been Around the Block





I only recently got started and therefore so far lack experience "in the field" but regarding (Tallarn) Sentinels they also seem the cheapest platform to spam Hunter Killer missiles. I'm undecided if this is efficient at BS 4+ on a Tallarn Sentinel, but it might be worth it in some cases.

Furthermore depending on terrain and positioning of enemy troops their small base size for a vehicle can be advantageous when getting through choke points onto objectives or into range to bind other units in close combat. And in close combat they are rather hardy for their points cost. They might not kill anything, but it takes some time to kill them.

But of corse, both points are not really strong arguments towards points efficiency both rather situational.
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






It isn't efficient. HK missiles are trash, they're a one-shot weapon that is way too expensive compared to guns that can fire every turn.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






Yea... HK missiles are a bit gak. If they were 5 points each though, and you could take 2 per vehicle, they'd be amazing with Cadian, just like how Seeker Missile spam works with Tau. You could use overlapping fields of fire, fire off 20 of the things, and just alpha strike an enemy superheavy off the board.

Of course we know they're not like that and they suck, but maybe in a parallel universe they're useful.
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





WA

Hk spam is a route you could go. Could actually be really good, but you would have to really dedicate to it. With cadia reroll 1s and overlapping fields of fire you would be rerolling 1s, hitting on 3s.

I think Mordian Glory did a video on it a while back

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Baltimore, MD

Sentinels pop up in some really successful IG lists in ITC. Cheap brigade filler plus objective grabber. Since they’re mostly there for the extra CP (and freed up detachment) over two battalions, you don’t need much out of them.

My Painted Armies
: Co. B, 37th Praetorian IG: 11,000pts
Cygnar: 350pts
KOW Ogres: 4500 points
Loyalist Emperor's Children: 2500 points 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Heroic Senior Officer





Murray, Kentucky

Pyroalchi wrote:
I only recently got started and therefore so far lack experience "in the field" but regarding (Tallarn) Sentinels they also seem the cheapest platform to spam Hunter Killer missiles. I'm undecided if this is efficient at BS 4+ on a Tallarn Sentinel, but it might be worth it in some cases.

Furthermore depending on terrain and positioning of enemy troops their small base size for a vehicle can be advantageous when getting through choke points onto objectives or into range to bind other units in close combat. And in close combat they are rather hardy for their points cost. They might not kill anything, but it takes some time to kill them.

But of corse, both points are not really strong arguments towards points efficiency both rather situational.

Be careful with the "tough in melee" bit. Usually smart opponents use that against you. With guard you either want the unit to die in melee going into your turn so you can shoot, able to fall back, or it's a Baneblade/Catachan/bullgryn and can fight back.

Oftentimes with stuff like sentinels the opponent uses them to protect their assault units in your turn. Then they kill the sentinel in your assault phase and slingshot into your lines on their next turn

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in de
Been Around the Block





Thanks for the tip. As I said I'm new and want to use some sentinels because I like the model. I appreciate the warning that this could be exploited.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wichita, KS

Powerlifter Sentinels are kinda fun. They are a FW sentinel varient that essentially has a powerfist. You can scout move them 9". Move and Advance 9+d6". Pop Smoke. Then use the "Crush them" strat to charge after advancing and hit on 2's.

It's like a weird, but cheap as chips version of a Sydonian Dragoon. If they were Fast Attack instead of Heavy Support, I'd take them in most armies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the Topic of Baneblades. I'm taking a Doomhammer to a tourney tomorrow, and as I was picking my baneblade vairent I realized that they transport "Astra Militarum" instead of (Regiment).

So I'm going to put some hobby effort into a "Bunkerblade"
Stormlord with No Upgrades (keep it cheap)
3 units of Cadian Command Squads with Sniper Rifles
2 units of MT Command Squads with Hot Shot Volley Guns.

It's cheap, and has a kinda silly amount of firepower coming out of it. Alternative approach using Cadian Heavy Weapon Teams.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/06 14:02:04


 
   
Made in de
Been Around the Block





I'm currently building a Tallarn army and was thinking about the possibility to take a set of 2-3 heavy bolter Tarantula batteries, put them in an ambush and drop them on an objective or somewhere I need anti-infantry firepower. Mostly because I like the idea of hidden batteries fluffwise and it would be possible to get these immobile unit outside of my deployment zone. Has anyone ever tried this? Does it make sense in a competetive way?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wichita, KS

A little tale of 3 tourneys if anyone is interested. I've played 3 tourneys in the last 7 days with 3 different lists, I won 2 of the tourneys, and I figured my thoughts might help some players.

Tourney 1:
Wooden Spoon. 14 players. 2/14 players were really competitive, and running competitive lists.


My list:
Spoiler:
Imperial Guard Battalion (Cadian)
*Emperor’s Fist Tank Company
Tank Commander (Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolters x 3)
*Relic: Hammer of Sunderance
Pask (Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolters x 3)

Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad

Heavy Weapon Team (Mortars)
Heavy Weapon Team (Mortars)
Heavy Weapon Team (Mortars)

Imperial Guard Battalion (Cadian)
Tank Commander (Executioner, Plasma Sponsons, Heavy Bolter)
Tank Commander (Executioner, Plasma Sponsons, Heavy Bolter)

Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad

Imperial Guard Spearhead (Cadian)
*Emperor’s Wrath Artillery Company
Company Commander
*Warlord: Old Grudges (sometimes grand strategist)
Company Commander

Platoon Commander

2 Basalisks
3 Hydras
2 Wyvrens

Trojan Support Vehicle


Game 1:
Spoiler:
Mission: ITC Champs with 3 objectives.
Opponent: I'm playing the Ringer's Ork army. He is a little scattered, and deploys movement trays to represent all of his boyz, and only puts the boyz on the table once they hit combat. Has to look up a few rules, and has to judge the rest of the tourney.
Deployment: Terrain on this table is NUTS!!!!. Hammer and Anvil. This is an Ork Hoard army with over 200 models, and I can only see 2 non-characters (mek gunz)
Game Summary: I got 1st turn, and moved to midfield, kill a bunch of gretchin, and a few lootas and tankbustas with my artillery. Only a few of my tanks could see the 2 Mek gunz, and I only killed 1 of them.
Every turn he shot his relic shock attack gun twice, and every time it shot it killed a vehicle (except for 1). It racked up 7 vehicle kills all by itself.
He jumped some boyz to the middle objective, killed my guardsmen there, and took a prisoner in an adjacent squad. I charge in some more guardsmen, but don't clear the middle objective until turn 3. So he held more, but I killed more most turns. He got all of his Big game points, and most of his head hunter points with the relic shock attack gun. I got all of my Reaper points, all of my old school points, but only a couple of my butcher bill points.
We only got to the top of 4. We talked out the bottom of 4. At the bottom of 4 he had very little left, but the score was a dead tie, so somehow I didn't beat an Ork army even going 1st. Not sure how that happened.
Outcome: TIE


Game 2:
Spoiler:
Mission: ITC Champs with 5 that are player placed
Opponent: Tyranids with 2 Scythed Heirodules and 1 Barbed Heirodule, Tervigon, Malanthrope, Gants
Deployment: Dawn of War. I make a scythed Heirodule for death, and deploy my Tank Commanders, Hydras, and Mortars all in range of my warlord. My Basaliks take one corner, Wyvrens the other.
Game Summary: I went 1st, and his 2 Scythed Heirodules deployed on one flank out of range of his Malanthrope. I use overlapping fields of fire to torch the one that I had marked for death, and am able to do 13 wounds to the other one. Ouch. I also pick up about 30 gants. On his turn he moves to the middle, and kills a unit of guardsmen, but fails to touch a tank. I kill the other Scythed heirodule, and take the Barbed heirodule down to 4. He fails to kill a hydra, but does manage to 3 point a guardsmen with his entire army, so on my turn I just move around and get objectives. Table him on turn 4.
Outcome: Win


Game 3:
Spoiler:
Mission: ITC Champs with 4 objectives in a diamond.
Opponent: Death Guard. 3 PBC, DP, 3 Plaugue haulers, 1 flamer drone thing, some plague bearers This player hasn't finished a game to this point, and had a really contentious game 1 vs the guy who should have probably won the event.
Deployment: Crooked Dawn of war. I have nowhere to hide the mortars, so I just deploy them in the middle. I take the Relic of lost cadia, and all my tanks, hyrdras and mortars are in range. He infiltrates nurglings onto the 2 objectives on the flanks.
Game Summary: I am trying to play at light speed, because I know he has the advantage in early game, and I have the advantage in late game. He goes 1st, manages to kill a Tank Command with red hot dice, and takes a basilisk down to 1, despite me spending the CP to put my army in cover. I respond by popping the relic, but there are some LOS blocking terrain that make it hard for me to pick my targets. I kill 2 of the Plague Haulers, the Drone, and most of the plague bearers. He responds by finishing the basilisk, and taking a hydra down to 2, and killing a pile of guardsmen. I had nominated 2 Hydras as engineers, and goof this turn by shooting them both (and doing nothing). I finish the plague bearers, kill the nurglings, take some wounds off a PBC, and finish the Hauler. At this point, he's been moving his PBC's straight up the field, and his DP and PBC charge in and neutralize a couple of my tanks. What I have left is able to kill the PBC, and take the DP down to 1 wound. I goof and forget to move a unit of guardsmen onto an objective. At this point we are out of time, but my opponent wants to try a turn 4. So we talk through it, and he tells me his DP is going to kill a full wound hydra, so we roll it out and the DP dies to overwatch, so we finish talking it through. Sure enough he outscored me early holding more thanks to his nurglings, and killing the same every turn. I have severely neutered him. He's got just 2 PBC's, and 1 character left, and I have 1/2 of my army intact, but because we end on 4, he had a 2 point lead. If I had not shot one of my hydras on 2, or I had not forgotten to move my guardsmen to an open objective I would have had a draw on 4, and on 5, I was going to start running away with it. Still it is what it is. He played it well, took his time and scored his points, while I was rushing like crazy because of the 2 hr 15 min rounds.
Outcome: loss


Final tourney thoughts:
Spoiler:
The army was OK, but the Trojan didn't deliver what I wanted it to, and 2 hr 15 min rounds is insane. very, very few games reached their natural conclusion.
60 Guardsmen aren't enough for the board control I need to win.
I'm not sold on Pask.
I need a bit more anti-tank to deal with the local meta which seems to be going more and more towards big things.

Final Outcome: 1-1-1 6th place.





This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/07 03:15:05


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wichita, KS

Tourney 2:
4th of July RTT. 10 players. 8/10 players were really competitive, and running competitive lists.

My List:
Spoiler:
Imperial Guard Battalion (Cadian) +5 CP (-1)
*Emperor’s Fist Tank Company
Tank Commander (Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolters x 3, Storm Bolter)
*Relic: Hammer of Sunderance
Pask (Battle Cannon, Las Cannon, Plasma Cannons x 2)

Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad

Platoon Commander

Heavy Weapon Team (Mortars)
Heavy Weapon Team (Mortars)

Imperial Guard Battalion (Cadian) +5 CP
Tank Commander (Executioner, Plasma Sponsons, Heavy Bolter)
Tank Commander (Executioner, Plasma Sponsons, Heavy Bolter)

Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad

Imperial Guard Spearhead (Cadian) +1 CP (-1)
*Emperor’s Wrath Artillery Company
Company Commander
*Warlord: Old Grudges (if there is a big target. Otherwise Grand Strategist)
Company Commander

Ogryn Bodyguard (Bullgryn Plate, Bullgryn Maul, Slagshield)
Ogryn Bodyguard (Bullgryn Plate, Bullgryn Maul, Slagshield)

2 Basalisks
3 Hydras
2 Wyvrens


Game 1:
Spoiler:
Mission: ITC champs 5 objectives with fixed placement
Opponent: 12 Harlie bikes, max unit of grotesques, a bunch of venoms full of kabalites. I knew this player to be relatively slow, so was putting on the gas.
Deployment: Hammer and Anvil. He deep struck his grotesques, and tried to hide his bikes, but all of my LOS requiring shooting could see 1 or 2 bikes.
Game Summary: I went 1st. He made one bike unit -2 to hit, I used overlapping fields of fire to negate that. Killed 4 units in each squad of 6. Killed a venom for 1st blood. He failed leadership on the 1st squad, then did a CP reroll to pass, and the other squad failed and ran. He was really demoralized having lost so many bikes. His remaining 2 bikes double moved, and tied up a tank commander, but I killed one bike on overwatch, so he only got that 1 vehicle. On my turn 2 I killed all of the venoms, and most of what came out of them. His grotesques deep struck, failed there charge. I shoot them to death. We are running out of time, but I convince him to go one more turn. He kills some guardsmen, I table him. My Ogryn were key making sure I had board control. A good list adjustment.
Outcome: Win (Turn 4 tabling)


Game 2:
Spoiler:
Mission: ITC Champs 3 objectives.
Opponent: a terifying chaos knight list. 2 Knights with double Gatling cannons, 2 armigers, 4 helverins.
Deployment: Hammer and Anvil. I pick the relic of lost cadia, and deploy in an insane castle that gets all 4 tank commanders, all the mortars, all 3 hydras, and both basalisks. The wyvrens take the other flank alone. He tries to out-range me by deploying fairly deep in his zone.
Game Summary: I went 1st, and took it even though my 2 Executioners had to move to get range (less than 5 got them range on a helverin). I pop vengence for cadia on one of my executioners. All of my tanks use strike and shroud. I pop the relic and go to town. Use the mortars to take off one wound on the big knight that everyone can see, then use overlapping fields of fire on it. I do 13 wounds to it from mortars, and Hydras, so I switch to the other big knight. The 2 battle cannons take it down to 5 wounds left, and the executioners kill a helverin with help from the basalisks for Old School. On his turn his armigers kill 18 of the 20 guardsmen on the center objective, and his helverins kill a hydra. So he killed more, but I held more thanks to 2 very brave guardmen. I pop vengence for cadia on a double shooting basalisk, and use pound them into dust on all my tanks. Kill a armiger, and the knight that had 13 wounds left. I charge a full squad of guardsmen, and both bullgryn into the armiger on the center objective, and surround it. He kills a wyvren. I kill 2 helverins and his remaining big knight, and get guardmen to all 3 objectives for the bonus. He tries to kill a unit of guardsmen, but fails, and I table him.
Outcome: Win. (Turn 4 tabling)


Game 3
Spoiler:
Mission: ITC with 5 player placed objectives.
Opponent: 3 Riptides, 3 Coldstars, 24 Drones, 45 Fire warriors, a few marker light characters.
Deployment: Vanguard, I deploy fairly aggressively, but get nearly all of my guardsmen on terrain, and my mortars out of LOS. I mark one of his riptides with Old Grudges. He deploys as Tau does.
Game Summary: I go 1st. My guardsmen jump from terrain to terrain moving up-field. Hydras, Wyvrens (double shooting), and Mortars kill all but 4 drones. This leaves my marked riptide with no drones in range, so I kill it with the tank commanders. I also kill a few fire warriors out of a whole bunch of different squads. On his turn, he flys his coldstars right into the middle of my army. Kills pask. Charges a Hydra, and actually manages to 3 point a wyvren between 2 coldstars and terrain, all while engaging the other wyvren. His fire warriors shoot at guardsmen. I pop Take cover on one squad, and only lose a total of 15 or so. So my guardsmen rip into the fire warriors and kill about 2/3 of them. My hydras kill the coldstar that I can fall back from, My mortars finish the drones, and my tank commanders claim another riptide. He is worried about being tabled. He kills a basalisk, and then using 2 squads of fire warriors and a riptide to try to 3-point a guardsmen. Thankfully he kills 3 in Close combat, I initially make my leadership, but use a CP reroll to fail it, so I can take the 3-pointed guardsmen for moral. I take the riptide with the 3++ down to 2, kill everything that isn't the riptide and 2 coldstars. He manages to kill another tank to get himself big game points, and then I table him.
Outcome: Win (turn 4 tabling)


Final tourney thoughts:
Spoiler:
Wow. This was a really competitive event, and I outperformed my expectations somewhat. I didn't think I was going to beat that knight army (though maybe I wouldn't have if he'd gone 1st)
The Harlies would have been close had he gone 1st, but I think my Hydras gave me a clear edge in that matchup. I don't know how that Tau army ever beats my list, even if it goes 1st.

Adding the Ogryn bodyguards to the army were key to board control in all 3 games, and a definite improvement.
Also, taking a gamble to put a few more anti-tank guns on the tank commanders was a good choice. I think going all in on pask is probably the right way to play him.

Final Outcome: 3-0 1st place.
.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/07 03:15:55


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wichita, KS

Tourney 3:
Neighborhood RTT. 12 players. 3/12 players were really competitive, and running competitive lists. This event was know to be more friendly, so I wanted to mix it up with something off the wall, and bring a baneblade variant.

My List: “Stop! Hammertime!”
Spoiler:

Imperial Guard Battalion (Militarum Tempestus) +5 CP (-1 for Relic)
Tempestor Prime (Command Rod) *Relic: Laurels of Command (Might Change)
Tempestor Prime (Command Rod)

MT Scions (2 Plasmaguns)
MT Scions (2 Plasmaguns)
MT Scions (2 Plasmaguns)

MT Command Squad (4 Hot Shot Volley Guns)
MT Command Squad (4 Flamers)

Imperial Guard Battalion (Tallarn) +5 CP
Company Commander *Warlord: Old Grudges (Might Change)
Company Commander (Power Sword)

Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad

Command Squad (4 flamers)
Platoon Commander

Heavy Weapon Team (Mortars)
Heavy Weapon Team (Mortars)
Heavy Weapon Team (Mortars)

Imperial Guard Suppreme Command (Vostroyan) +1 CP (-1 for Vigilis)
*Emperor’s Fist Tank Company
Tank Commander (Executioner, Plasma Sponsons, Heavy Bolter)
Tank Commander (Executioner, Plasma Sponsons, Heavy Bolter)
Tank Commander (Battle Cannon, Plasma Sponsons, Heavy Bolter)
*Relic: HAMMER of Sunderance
Primaris Psyker *Psychic: Nightshroud, Psychic Barrier
Primaris Psyker *Psychic: Nightshroud, Psychic Barrier

Techpriest Engineseer

DoomHAMMER (Magma Cannon, 5 Twin Heavy Bolters, 4 Las Cannons)
Note: I'm using the Vostroyan strat every turn for +1 to hit on the Doomhammer.


Game 1:
Spoiler:
Mission: 5 Objectives progressive scoring.
Opponent: Basalisk, Wyvren, Manticore, 6 units guardsmen, 3 sentinels with las cannons, Valkerie full of Crusaders and buffing characters, Tank Commander, 10 Scions, and a few misc other stuff. This is a local guy that is still learning.
Deployment: Table Corners. I take a look at his army and judge that if I go Hard, he won't be able to get 1st strike, so I put the mortars inside my Doomhammer with the tallarn command squad, and the psyckers. I pay for the relic dagger, and the tallarn ambush strat to outflank 2 tallarn characters, and all 3 infantry squads, and I deep strike my scions. He deploys everything but the scions I then deploy the Doomhammer on the line, and the tank commanders farther back.
Game Summary: I went 1st. I used strike and shround on my tanks, and got both psychic barrier, and nightshroud off on my doomhammer. So everything was -1 to hit T8. My shooting was unspectacular. I killed 1 sentinel, and 1 unit of guardsmen, took his tank commander down to 1, then charged and killed more guardsmen using the crush them strat. On his turn 1 basalisk does 11 wounds to a tank commander (who had popped smoke!), and he finishes it. He uses the Grav shoot rule on the valkerie to drop out the crusaders, and makes an 11" charge on a primaris psycker which lets him conga-line into one of my tank commanders to tie it up, and he is on 4 of the 5 objectives, which score at the end of the round, so we end the round 6-2 with him in the lead. Oops. I thought this was going to be a pushover. Guess I've got to play. I bail out my command squad to flame his primaris psyker dead. I back out my engaged tank commander. I bring in my tallarn, and my Hot Shot Volley guns. Mortars, plus volley guns plus an infantry squad manage to kill the crusaders. Doomhammer kills the manticore, my other infantry squads manage to kill 2 of his infantry squads, and charge a taurox holding an objective, and then my command squad charges a sentinel, and piles into his tank commander. He is somewhat unperturbed. Screens out my remaining deep strikers, and managed to get to 3 of the 5 objectives (including 1 worth double points), and he takes 15 wounds off the doomhammer. So at the bottom of 2, the score is 9 - 5 with me losing. I advance my tallarn infantry, and bring in my remaining scions. The Tank Commander plus Scions kill the Valkerie, and the talarn kill a couple characters including his warlord. I've now got the Taurox completely encircled, and am holding it on an objective with infantry. The Doomhammer kills the basalisk, and a bunch of infantry. He deep strikes in his scions, to take an objective, and double moves some infantry to get 3 of the 5 objectives again. 12-7, but he is running out of steam. I kill everything left except the Taurox, and the game goes to 5 turns allowing me to finally catch him. Whew. That was closer than I thought. I gave the guy a few tips on how to beat me (like conga-lining the crusaders to my tank commander), but I'm a pretty savvy player, and I almost dropped my 1st game to a guy at his 1st ever event.

Outcome: Win


Game 2:
Spoiler:
Mission: A weird mission where you mark 3 characters, and if they are alive they get you points.
Opponent: a terifying Custodes list played by a top notch player. 2 of the big grav tanks, 3 of the small ones. 9 Bikes, bike captain, Trajan, Banner that gives -1 to hit.
Deployment: Vanguard. Terrain is weird causing me problems deploying. I try to deploy back, but the only place I can set my Doomhammer is more foward than I like. I deploy my mortars in terrain, but no place to hide, so he can see them. I load up the flamers, volley guns, and the characters, and mark the bikes with Old grudges, but the terrain made it so I really only had the Doomhammer and the BC tank, and the mortars in range of the Old grudges. He deploys aggressively on the line with everything inside the -1 to hit banner.
Game Summary: I went 1st, I put the Doomhammer's big guns into the big grav tanks, and mainly bounce off (5 total wounds). The Heavy bolters manage to kill a bike thanks to old grudges. The Hammer of Sunderance does like 21 wounds to a Grav tank, and puts it down. My Executioners do a bunch of wounds to themselves, while killing a 2nd bike, and then the mortars go ham and kill a bike all by themselves. So I did work, but not as much as I had hoped. So he moves up, and his 1st 2 small tanks punk one of my executioners. His bikes kill most of my mortars with hurricane bolters. His big tank does 9 to my Battle Cannon commander. Then he lines up an 8" charge on my doom hammer with the bikes. I pop "defensive gunners", but he makes his invuls. Still he fails his charge, even with a CP reroll. Then he tries with his bike captain who takes 3 wounds from heavy bolters in overwatch. This leaves the bikes outside the -1 to hit aura. I drop my techpriest back, and between him, a CP reroll, and jury rigging, I heal 4 wounds on my BC tank. I bring in all of my scions, and between my doomhammer, scions and executioner, I kill all of the bikes except the captain. The Relic Battle cannon kills the other big grav tank. My opponent is super-duper salty at this point. He moves forward his little tanks, and charges managing to 3-point my doom hammer with some terrain. He didn't want to face the overwatch, so he charged my primaris psykers with a wounded grav tank. The primaris psykers take that tank all the way down to 1, and the doom hammer finishes it, leaving it free to leave combat, which it does, and I kill everything but Trajan. Trajan charges in, and fights twice, managing to do 10 or so wounds to the doomhammer, and then he dies.

Outcome: Win Note: This was a top tier player, playing a top tier list. This win was an absurd miracle for my silly doomhammer list.



Game 3
Spoiler:
Mission: 6 objectives progressive scoring.
Opponent: Ad Mech. Stygies big unit of dragoons, electropriests in a drill, 3 Neutron laser Dunecrawlers, a variety of troops, and 3 punchy Castalan robots. A very high callibur player.
Deployment: Pointy hammer and anvil. I put all the flamers, the hot shot volley guns, and 1 unit of infantry into the Doomhammer. I outflank 2 infantry, and a company commander. The platoon commander babysits the mortars on one objective, and the Doomhammer deploys behind a wall on another objective with the relic battle cannon hiding behind it, and the 2 executioners hiding behind another wall. I mark the Dragoons with Old grudges. He scout moves the Dragoons, the drill, and the punchy robots.
Game Summary: He goes 1st, and his assault stuff moves right at me, but isn't close enough for a turn 1 charge. He shoots his neutron lasers at my baneblace, and rolls a bunch of 2's to wound. He only made me take 1 save, and I happened to make a 6+ (cover). Seeing his oncoming assault threat, I 1st consider moving the doomhammer foward to charge the dragoons, but realizing it would be a long charge I back it up instead. I make a critical error her, I should have dropped out the infantry squad, and used a move-move-move order, to put them in front of the dragoons, and movement block them. I focus all of my firepower on the Dunecrawlers, but only kill 1 (the Relic battle cannon did it all by itself) So he moves forward his assault elements again, Shoots the Battle cannon commander down to 2 wounds, and makes a long charge onto 1 of my executioners with his dargoons, and a super long charge (11") on the other executioner with his drill. Both executioners go down. So it's looking grim. The techpriest repairs the relic battle cannon TC back to mid tier, and I move the Baneblade forward to charge dragoons. I bring in some tallarn on an objective, and drop some plasma scions to help with the dragoons, but leave most of them in reserves. I smite the dragoons twice, killing 1 (which had been previously wounded), then I use the doomhammer's heavy bollters to kill 1 and 1/2, and it's main gun kills the drill, dumping out the electro priests for my Mortars to deal with. The Relic Battle cannon claims another Dunecrawler, and even picks up a dragoon with it's sponsons, and the Scions finish of the dragoons. I think the flamer squad killed one all by itself, so no charges needed, and things are looking up. He moves his robots to flame my mortars and kill a squad, and his remaining Dunecrawler takes 5 off of the Doomhammer. I move the Doomhammer forward, repair my tank commander again (to top level), and drop in my scions and remaining tallarn in his backfield. The psykers buff the doomhammer. The Doomhammer fails to kill a dunecrawler, but does kill some troops with heavy bolters. The Relic BC kills all but one robot who is left with 2 wounds. I'm starting to wage a heavy toll on his troops with my scions and tallarn. He fails to hit with the wounded Dunecrawler thanks to my nightshield, and kills a few scions. But then I finish his dunecrawler with the doomhammer, it explodes and does a bunch of wounds to characters. I finish his troops with my troops, and finish his robots with my tank commander. So it's just a few misc characters left running around, and he concedes.

Outcome: WinNote: I don't know how I won this, let alone tabled him.
.


Final tourney thoughts:
Spoiler:
Wow. This wasn't a competitive event, but I played 2 competitive players running 2 competitive lists, and managed to pull it out with my silly doomhammer army.
the doomhammer itself was fairly unimpressive, but it took a lot of firepower off of the other tank commanders
Flamers inside the doomhammer sounded better on paper than they worked out. Likewise the hot shot volley guns. I was frequently moving the vehicle which made them less effective.

Vostroyan was a fun regiment to play, but made the tank commanders less powerful than Cadian or Catachan. On the other hand, the extra range on my plasma cannons came into play frequently.

Tallarn infantry are quite impressive to me.

Final Outcome: 3-0 1st place.
.
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





WA

Great write up. Talk to me about how you are using ogryn bodyguards for board control. Is it because they are characters and cant be targeted so they can hang in the back field?

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wichita, KS

 UMGuy wrote:
Great write up. Talk to me about how you are using ogryn bodyguards for board control. Is it because they are characters and cant be targeted so they can hang in the back field?

Partially. Character comes into it. If I stick an infantry squad and a bullgryn on an objective usually I can count on controlling it, because by the time they clear the infantry squad they don't have enough firepower left to clear the bullgryn. Also, they are just really beefy by themselves. I tend to stick to terrain with them whenever possible, and it dissuades certain charges into my infantry.

For instance, in my game vs Harlies, an Archon charges a unit of guardsmen, but my bullgryn was in range to glorious intervene. It took a few rounds of combat, but eventually my Bullgryn killed the archon, and all of the time they were chewing on each other, my opponent's advance was more or less stopped. It didn't matter that I win that fight, just that I don't die quickly.

Another example is facing the Chaos knights. He parked a armiger right on an objective. Guardsmen could take it with Obsec, but not survive the armiger. So I put the bullgryn into the armiger too, and they were able to take attacks off of the guardsmen.

Vs the Tau, whenever I had a chance to charge fire warriors I tried to lead with the bullgryn, and the bullgryn ended up killing the tau markerlight characters.

The most important thing is that most things that are good at killing infantry are less good at killing bullgryn so having a mix of the 2 really helps to stabilize your board control.
   
Made in us
Deranged Necron Destroyer





Awesome write up - thanks! Funny I started thinking about bullgryns this weekend but not the bodyguards I have 6 that I built and painted up but never got around to actually playing.

So to that end I was thinking about 6 bullgryns w/mauls and a mix of shields as catachans with a priest and an astropath. I'm guessing that's standard fare. What about adding straken? That's another +1 attacks bringing the bullgryns up to 31 S8 AP-2 attacks plus whatever straken brings to the party ( that's from memory - I'm at work). Looking at his abilities it's obvious he was designed to lead two catachan infantry squads into combat I think. I have 6 squads so what about sending two along with the bullgryns as wingmen? That is a lot of points....dunno...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/08 17:16:27


 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

Bullgryns are Auxilia, not Regiment. Cannot be made Catachan.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Deranged Necron Destroyer





 JNAProductions wrote:
Bullgryns are Auxilia, not Regiment. Cannot be made Catachan.


Ah, good catch thanks! So Straken won't help and they don't get the +1 to strength...too bad...I had high hopes...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
what are good tactics for keeping your buffing characters alive with your bullgryns? I can see me rolling them into a unit of X and then the astropath and priest get immediately trashed. Do you keep them surrounded by the bullgryns? If you're confident no one's going to sneak in behind them I guess you're ok with keeping your characters at arms length from the action. Those are the only two tactics I was able to come up with...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/08 21:04:01


 
   
Made in ee
Regular Dakkanaut





I need help building heavy weapons teams.
Currently have 9 mortars, 3 lascannons and 1 autocannon.
I can build 6 more heavy weapons but i dont know what to choose.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




If theyre flying solo, mortars. If you're putting them in Infantry Squads, it depends on the rest of your list.

Without bullet catchers, HWTs are easy (and priority) kills.
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




9 mortars and rest 3 each (for veteran squads)
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

Does the Vendetta get the same "+1 to hit if it hovers" rule that the Valkyrie gets? I realize that it's probably way too expensive regardless, but I've always had a soft spot for that and the Vulture.

On a similar topic, what are the best anti-armour units in the book (more thinking things like opposing Tank Commanders or things at that level that can be spammed rather than Knight-level anti-tank (A Shadowsword would probably overkill a Leman Russ, no?). There's more anti-infantry than you can shake a stick at, but anti-tank options seem a little flimsy.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






The Valkyrie has a +1 to hit ground rule, which negates the -1 it gets from moving. The Vendetta does not have that rule, no, meaning it's pretty useless.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Baltimore, MD

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
On a similar topic, what are the best anti-armour units in the book (more thinking things like opposing Tank Commanders or things at that level that can be spammed rather than Knight-level anti-tank (A Shadowsword would probably overkill a Leman Russ, no?). There's more anti-infantry than you can shake a stick at, but anti-tank options seem a little flimsy.


So, anti-tank is in a bit of weird place in 8th edition. Most of the big anti-tank weapons got repped as one shot, d6 damage guns, which is usually worse than multiple shot, d3 damage guns. So lascannons, vindicator cannons, and meltas range from "maybe almost okay" to complete trash. I rely most on tanks and artillery, but scions with plasma are great if you can wait until turn two. Basilisks do great against vehicles without an invulnerable save (run as cadian), Maticores do great against 5++, T8 chassis (run as catachan), while the basic LRBT or tank commander with battle cannon does yeoman's work against T7 or less. Remember that you can stack bonuses, so anything with variable shots should be catachan (except the bassie due to inherent reroll), but catachans have harker for a cheap aura, and also the master of ordnance. toss in a warlord with old grudges, and you can do serious work against hard targets.

This is one reason (among many) that a lot of IG lists run allies, most notably smash captains, shield captains, or knights.

My Painted Armies
: Co. B, 37th Praetorian IG: 11,000pts
Cygnar: 350pts
KOW Ogres: 4500 points
Loyalist Emperor's Children: 2500 points 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Cadian Tank Commanders can use Pound Them to Dust!, to get more shots with their battle cannons than their Catachan brethren. This can be combined with their inherent reroll 1's trait or the Relic of Lost Cadia as well.
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

Starting from the Apocalypse box, I'm thinking the following:

Pask in Punisher
Tank Commander Exterminator
Tank Commander standard Russ (for Hammer of Sundrance)
Company Commander
4 scrubs left over to convert fo Officers or advisors
Convert Chimera to Manticore

Does that seem about right for a start?

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Tactics
Go to: