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 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
(A Shadowsword would probably overkill a Leman Russ, no?).


Not really. Average of 6 shots, 3 hits, 2.5 wounds, 17.5 damage. That's overkill but not by all that much and it's very easy for a bad die roll or two to bring that average down. I'd say it's just about the right damage to let you put the lascannons into a second target while still being pretty confident that you'll kill the primary target.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/12 03:08:16


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Just a question,
has anyone of you tried the Carnodon thing?

If yes, is it worth it? Which loadout suits them the best?


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tag8833 wrote:

So I'm going to put some hobby effort into a "Bunkerblade"
Stormlord with No Upgrades (keep it cheap)
3 units of Cadian Command Squads with Sniper Rifles
2 units of MT Command Squads with Hot Shot Volley Guns.


If you want to go mental, as a thought experiment I've wondered about how a "Plasmablade" would fare

Stormlord
1 Command squad full Plasma
6x SWS full Plasma
That's 22 gunners so you can cut 2 to optimize or keep them for overheat-casualty redundancy

Make the Stormlord Tallarn to outflank, and the infantry Armageddon for 18" RF or Vostroyan for 30" range and 15" RF (Or Cadian to play it safe)

It's in the 800-900ish depending on upgrades and is surely gimmicky but if you can proxy it for a couple of casual games it could be hilarious
   
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nvm

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/12 14:35:15


 
   
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I don’t think you can put Armageddon models in a Tallarn baneblade.

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Texas

Nostro wrote:
tag8833 wrote:

So I'm going to put some hobby effort into a "Bunkerblade"
Stormlord with No Upgrades (keep it cheap)
3 units of Cadian Command Squads with Sniper Rifles
2 units of MT Command Squads with Hot Shot Volley Guns.


If you want to go mental, as a thought experiment I've wondered about how a "Plasmablade" would fare

Stormlord
1 Command squad full Plasma
6x SWS full Plasma
That's 22 gunners so you can cut 2 to optimize or keep them for overheat-casualty redundancy

Make the Stormlord Tallarn to outflank, and the infantry Armageddon for 18" RF or Vostroyan for 30" range and 15" RF (Or Cadian to play it safe)

It's in the 800-900ish depending on upgrades and is surely gimmicky but if you can proxy it for a couple of casual games it could be hilarious


Hmmm...
add 2 astropaths nearby for -1 to hit and +1 save.
I would say make the stormlord voystroyan for the +1 to hit stratagem. Infantry Voystroyan also to ensure you get that plasma in range. Put a CC and platoon commander in there as well for orders.
so
Platoon cmd
Comp Cmd
3x 6 man units Veterans all with plasma (only 3 can take it, so 9 plasma, 9 lasguns).
That fills your 20 slots. Issue FRFSRF or Reroll 1's. Can even take Laurels of Command on the CC to stack Take Aim! with it.

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 JNAProductions wrote:
I don’t think you can put Armageddon models in a Tallarn baneblade.
I mean, you can't put Tallarn models in one either.

If you meant "Stormlord", you can. Because GW are the masters of consistent writing, while a Novamarine (who are Ultramarine companies 11 though 20 in all but name) is absolutely forbidden by the GLORIOUS CODEX ASTARTES from catching a ride to the EXTRA HONOURABLE LATRINE DUTY in an Ultramarines Rhino, literally any shlub who has a flak jacket and a flashlight from whatever backwater world can ride in a Tallarn holy God-Engine-Telic-Of-The-Emperor. Even OGYRNS!

(All Codex: Astra Copywritum transports can carry ASTRA COPYWRITUM units and are not locked down to <REGIMENT>-equivalent like other armies are.)

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Ah, like Dark Eldar.

Okay, didn’t realize. And was AFB, so just went off memory.

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Nostro wrote:
tag8833 wrote:

So I'm going to put some hobby effort into a "Bunkerblade"
Stormlord with No Upgrades (keep it cheap)
3 units of Cadian Command Squads with Sniper Rifles
2 units of MT Command Squads with Hot Shot Volley Guns.


If you want to go mental, as a thought experiment I've wondered about how a "Plasmablade" would fare

Stormlord
1 Command squad full Plasma
6x SWS full Plasma
That's 22 gunners so you can cut 2 to optimize or keep them for overheat-casualty redundancy

Make the Stormlord Tallarn to outflank, and the infantry Armageddon for 18" RF or Vostroyan for 30" range and 15" RF (Or Cadian to play it safe)

It's in the 800-900ish depending on upgrades and is surely gimmicky but if you can proxy it for a couple of casual games it could be hilarious
Unfortunately you can't take 6 SWS with plasma because you can't take more than 3 SWS or any other nontroop unit.

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 ph34r wrote:
Unfortunately you can't take 6 SWS with plasma because you can't take more than 3 SWS or any other nontroop unit.
And consider my pet peeved.

The "Rule of 3" is only a suggestion for "Organised Play". Normal Matched Play has no such restriction.

Also, you can bypass it by bringing Elysian Special Weapon Squads, as these are not considered by the FAQ to be dodging the rule of 3.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/12 20:31:31


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+++++List of "broken" RaW in Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
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Iowa

 BaconCatBug wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
I don’t think you can put Armageddon models in a Tallarn baneblade.
I mean, you can't put Tallarn models in one either.

If you meant "Stormlord", you can. Because GW are the masters of consistent writing, while a Novamarine (who are Ultramarine companies 11 though 20 in all but name) is absolutely forbidden by the GLORIOUS CODEX ASTARTES from catching a ride to the EXTRA HONOURABLE LATRINE DUTY in an Ultramarines Rhino, literally any shlub who has a flak jacket and a flashlight from whatever backwater world can ride in a Tallarn holy God-Engine-Telic-Of-The-Emperor. Even OGYRNS!

(All Codex: Astra Copywritum transports can carry ASTRA COPYWRITUM units and are not locked down to <REGIMENT>-equivalent like other armies are.)

The non-notable exception to this last point is the Taurox Prime. It can only carry Militarum Tempestus and Officious Prefectus models.

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Dynas wrote:
Hmmm...
add 2 astropaths nearby for -1 to hit and +1 save.
I would say make the stormlord voystroyan for the +1 to hit stratagem. Infantry Voystroyan also to ensure you get that plasma in range. Put a CC and platoon commander in there as well for orders.
so
Platoon cmd
Comp Cmd
3x 6 man units Veterans all with plasma (only 3 can take it, so 9 plasma, 9 lasguns).
That fills your 20 slots. Issue FRFSRF or Reroll 1's. Can even take Laurels of Command on the CC to stack Take Aim! with it.


Vets come in units of 10 though. But yeah there's definitely some room to toy with the Regiment of the Stormlord, Vostroya for the strat, Valhalla for the fire efficiency, though I like Tallarn for the strat, it can't be killed until you plonk it down a flank and start erasing units. You need a big gap though, hence the gimmicky thing, but in this day and age of armies geared for knight-killing, the survivability of a Blade-chassis is questionable if deployed straight up.

ph34r wrote:Unfortunately you can't take 6 SWS with plasma because you can't take more than 3 SWS or any other nontroop unit.


Dang, of course !
...show's how much actual thought I've put into this. Just a random musing inspired by the Bunkerblade idea earlier.

I mean it's just the general direction, just rejig around a bit, for example:

3 SWS = 18 men, 9 plasma
2 Command Squads = 8 men, 8 plasma
1 Vet Squad = 10 men, 3 plasma

=> 36 men, 20 plasma. FIll the extra slots to taste

BaconCatBug wrote:If you meant "Stormlord", you can. Because GW are the masters of consistent writing, while a Novamarine (who are Ultramarine companies 11 though 20 in all but name) is absolutely forbidden by the GLORIOUS CODEX ASTARTES from catching a ride to the EXTRA HONOURABLE LATRINE DUTY in an Ultramarines Rhino, literally any shlub who has a flak jacket and a flashlight from whatever backwater world can ride in a Tallarn holy God-Engine-Telic-Of-The-Emperor. Even OGYRNS!


Omigod I've awaken the BCB !


   
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Before the rule of 3 hit I was going to run a stormlord packed full of catachan platoon commanders, company commanders + straken and a priest and possibly yarrick and just rush the thing forward and use crush them on the tank and assault with loads of plasma pistol and power fist wielding commandos. I even got the baneblade kit in the mail, but then the rule of three hit and it's still in the box now

I have no idea how well it would do, but thats a ton of s8 power fist attacks and overcharging plasma all with rerolls from yarrick.

The idea of this slimmy, weathered jungle tank loaded with commandos just really had me excited. I actually hate the rule of three, it tries to fix one hole by making even more holes elsewhere. Completely shafts armies like deathwing.

   
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Not sure if this was discussed before, but is there another viable load-out for the Vulture Gunship other than the twin gattling gun? I have a 1000pt scion drop force with 2 valks but they are all pretty anti-infantry and was wondering if a more anti-tank load-out could work to help out my plasma. I was thinking 6 hunter killer missiles (vulture usually dies after one turn of shooting anyways) with twin autocannon. Any suggestions?
   
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Murray, Kentucky

 BaconCatBug wrote:
 ph34r wrote:
Unfortunately you can't take 6 SWS with plasma because you can't take more than 3 SWS or any other nontroop unit.
And consider my pet peeved.

The "Rule of 3" is only a suggestion for "Organised Play". Normal Matched Play has no such restriction.

Also, you can bypass it by bringing Elysian Special Weapon Squads, as these are not considered by the FAQ to be dodging the rule of 3.

Call it a suggestion all you want, that "suggestion" is widely used norm across many playgroups, and pretty much every tournament. You want tactic advice, that's going to be a relevant restriction, just like how your list would interact with ITC. I get being annoyed, I miss being able to runore than 3 Onagers in my admech, but thems the rules and beta rule or not, it IS the norm in most areas.

It's especially bad to say that around a new player who doesn't know much or may be buying and building an army before he even has joined a group yet. You go on here saying "oh yeah run 6 SWS, it'll be great" is gonna really suck when every group in a 50 mile radius uses the rule of 3, because in my experience most do.

It's the same reason I don't recommend gimmicky lists to new players. Build the basics, start simple, focus on meat and potatoes and magnets. It's better to have a slightly less ruthlessly efficient army starting out if it means half of it won't be invalidated in 6 months when chapter approved hits. A new player ain't winning a tournament no matter how perfect his list, he can learn the basics with a simple army and once he comes to grips and has a sizeable collection, then he can field the weird curveball stuff that tends to be truly competitive. Plus we're guard, we're better off than most when it comes to running a bog standard infantry or tank company and for the average newbie, he'll still do just fine against other new players.

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

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Robcio wrote:
Not sure if this was discussed before, but is there another viable load-out for the Vulture Gunship other than the twin gattling gun? I have a 1000pt scion drop force with 2 valks but they are all pretty anti-infantry and was wondering if a more anti-tank load-out could work to help out my plasma. I was thinking 6 hunter killer missiles (vulture usually dies after one turn of shooting anyways) with twin autocannon. Any suggestions?


To add onto my last post, would an avenger strike fighter with 2 lascannond and 2 missile launchers be a good anti tank option, only 30pts more (me and my buddies are semi-conpetative and I really like my air focussed scions list)
   
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Robcio wrote:
Robcio wrote:
Not sure if this was discussed before, but is there another viable load-out for the Vulture Gunship other than the twin gattling gun? I have a 1000pt scion drop force with 2 valks but they are all pretty anti-infantry and was wondering if a more anti-tank load-out could work to help out my plasma. I was thinking 6 hunter killer missiles (vulture usually dies after one turn of shooting anyways) with twin autocannon. Any suggestions?


To add onto my last post, would an avenger strike fighter with 2 lascannond and 2 missile launchers be a good anti tank option, only 30pts more (me and my buddies are semi-conpetative and I really like my air focussed scions list)

The avenger is fun but it doesn't do a whole lot for the points. Mine usually gets focused super fast because it looks cool. The Gatling cannon really needs to be 2 damage or something. It actually feels like a misprint, because it's really underwhelming otherwise.

For casual games it's probably fine, especially if you've got Valkyries with lascannons/hellstrikes or other AT. Just don't expect it to annihilate an enemy armored column or clear the skies of hostiles.

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
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 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Robcio wrote:
Robcio wrote:
Not sure if this was discussed before, but is there another viable load-out for the Vulture Gunship other than the twin gattling gun? I have a 1000pt scion drop force with 2 valks but they are all pretty anti-infantry and was wondering if a more anti-tank load-out could work to help out my plasma. I was thinking 6 hunter killer missiles (vulture usually dies after one turn of shooting anyways) with twin autocannon. Any suggestions?


To add onto my last post, would an avenger strike fighter with 2 lascannond and 2 missile launchers be a good anti tank option, only 30pts more (me and my buddies are semi-conpetative and I really like my air focussed scions list)

The avenger is fun but it doesn't do a whole lot for the points. Mine usually gets focused super fast because it looks cool. The Gatling cannon really needs to be 2 damage or something. It actually feels like a misprint, because it's really underwhelming otherwise.

For casual games it's probably fine, especially if you've got Valkyries with lascannons/hellstrikes or other AT. Just don't expect it to annihilate an enemy armored column or clear the skies of hostiles.


My valks don't have lascannons but I have a lot of plasma (of being scions) I just wanted a few gun to add a bit more punch. I'm also trying out the "Officer of the Fleet" cuz it seems really cool and fluffy

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/16 17:55:32


 
   
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As anyone run double brigades competitively successfully? Its what I am working on now. I am just tweaking the list for between 90-120 infantry and not sure what is optimal.

   
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Double brigade is absolutely unnecessary. You will never need that much CP. Might as well just go triple battalion, less fast attack slots to fill and you can have up to 180 infantry.
   
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The dirty truth of the matter is that its an ITC based list and the CP's are being used to fund 2 Smash Caps and Libby Dread. And also a little towards the basilisks/wyverns I plan to take too. And might have to use some to save the infantry from morale.
   
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Since my question went under, I would like to try a second time:
I'm currently building a Tallarn army and was thinking about the possibility to take a set of 2-3 heavy bolter Tarantula batteries, put them in an ambush and drop them on an objective or somewhere I need anti-infantry firepower. Mostly because I like the idea of hidden batteries fluffwise and it would be possible to get these immobile unit outside of my deployment zone. Has anyone ever tried this? Does it make sense in a competetive way?
   
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 Smirrors wrote:
The dirty truth of the matter is that its an ITC based list and the CP's are being used to fund 2 Smash Caps and Libby Dread. And also a little towards the basilisks/wyverns I plan to take too. And might have to use some to save the infantry from morale.


So, I think you gotta think about a different approach. If you already have a brigade and a BA supreme command, you can run a second brigade, you can run a battalion and hope to not run out of CP... or you could up the BA detachment to a battalion.

The bumping the second IG battalion to a Brigade means adding another HQ, three fast attacks, and three elites. (heavies are too good to worry about). The cheapest you can fill three Fast attack and elite slots is 179pts for three sentinels and three astropaths. Tack on 46 pts for a psyker (I'm assuming you've used all three CCs), and you're at 225. Simply upping the supreme command to a battalion, and splash in three scout squads for 165pts, or even add in some missiles or heavy bolters to gain mortal wound strats.

The only way I would feel comfortable going double Brigade is if you were making good use of both brigades, which can be tricky to do at 2k, much less when leaving points for smash captains.

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So I've recently got 2 of the AM Spearhead detachment boxes which comes with the Cadian Command Squad sprues. Bearing in mind I've already got 2 company commanders built and painted, what should I do with the rest of these models?
   
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 Smirrors wrote:
As anyone run double brigades competitively successfully? Its what I am working on now. I am just tweaking the list for between 90-120 infantry and not sure what is optimal.


My latest list runs a brigade/batallion and even spamming 4 CP on a double firing aerial observed basilisk the first couple turns it felt like overkill. There's a certain point where you need to ask yourself what's more important, models that provide CP, or models that actually do something.

The former is stuff like guardsmen, basilisks, leman Russe's, the latter is sentinels, which you're probably using to pull off double brigade. I guess I just don't see the point in bringing a list that has 25+ command points but only has 3/4 the firepower and utility of a list that focused on actually good units at the expense of a few CP. With a double Vigilus detachments and a relic, I still start with 17, and that's pretty good all things considered, I'd imagine a smash captain would be dead long before he burned all that.

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I mean... if you bring a supreme command of 3 smash captains, and power one up per turn, you could absolutely spend 20 CP in a game on stratagems for them. Still seems excessive.
   
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Looking at Vulture Gunships, twin Punishes looks pretty juicy in combination with the mobility offered. Sure, you don't get quite the raw firepower of a Tank Commander or Pask, but you can threaten to snipe characters like nobody's business and 160 points for 40 S5 shots and a Heavy Bolter isn't prohibitively expensive. Anyone got experience with Vultures?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/19 14:20:34


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Pyroalchi wrote:
Since my question went under, I would like to try a second time:
I'm currently building a Tallarn army and was thinking about the possibility to take a set of 2-3 heavy bolter Tarantula batteries, put them in an ambush and drop them on an objective or somewhere I need anti-infantry firepower. Mostly because I like the idea of hidden batteries fluffwise and it would be possible to get these immobile unit outside of my deployment zone. Has anyone ever tried this? Does it make sense in a competetive way?

Unless there's some kind of exception to the normal deepstrike rules for them, I don't think it will work. By turn 2 most objectives are usually claimed or nearly claimed (in my experience), so you won't be able to block off or grab any objectives you don't have already simply due to being 9+ inches away from them and there will still be units on said objectives through turn 3 when you have to bring them in. Their only real use is being able to "reinforce a flank", but with 36" range heavy bolters don't usually need that level of repositioning to add firepower. So, I would compare them against other sources of deepstriking (scions) and conventional (tanks, heavy weapons teams) firepower to see if they make sense.

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What are you guys talking about not running out of CP? With my pure guard I run with 20+ CP and usually run out around turn 3.

Let's take my usual a brigade, battalion, and a supreme command detachment (21CP): -2CP for two vigilus detachments, -1 for an extra relic (relic battlecannon), -2 for an assassin, and -2 for cover since you're probably not going first. So out of the 21 you're down 7 to 14, first turn you probably use 1CP to dig-in your bullgryns to keep them alive along with 1 more CP to re-roll a failed save on one, down to 12. Your turn rolls around and you spend 2CP to make an artillery piece fire twice, spend another 2CP for overlapping fields of fire to take down their big unit, spend 1CP to either give an extra order or re-roll one of the number of shots on your artillery piece, down to 9 from 21 after your first turn.

Turn 2 rolls around, lets say you managed to get your bullgryns into cover where they can't be shot at, so no CP spent during your opponents phase. Now on your turn 2 you cast a psychic power on your bullgryns to +1 to your save but fail and need to spend 1CP to re-roll one to pass, you spend 2 for double firing artillery and 2 more for overlapping fields of fire, let's say you roll well and don't have to spend any on re-rolling number of shots, you get into the charge phase and your bullgryns fail the charge so you spend 1CP to re-roll a die to make them succeed. Now you're down to 3CP after your second turn.

Third turn you save that 3CP for double shooting artillery or overlapping fields of fire depending on what's still alive and 1CP for that important re-roll on either a save, psychic power, or charge. Now you've run out of CP.
   
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 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Looking at Vulture Gunships, twin Punishes looks pretty juicy in combination with the mobility offered. Sure, you don't get quite the raw firepower of a Tank Commander or Pask, but you can threaten to snipe characters like nobody's business and 160 points for 40 S5 shots and a Heavy Bolter isn't prohibitively expensive. Anyone got experience with Vultures?

They're fun, but remember flying targets they'll hit on 5's. Not just planes, but EVERYTHING with fly. Assault marines, land speeders, hell practically the entire Tau and Eldar codexes, you'd be amazed how much has the flu keyword. If it had the roving gunship rule the Valkyrie has absolutely it'd be amazing, but losing the +1 B's against many of the most important targets to hit with mass S5 shots really hurts.

Really fun though, and the mobility is nice. It sucks for my meta but if you see a lot of Ork, nid, rival guard, or chaos cultists I'm sure it would do well.

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
 
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