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Been thinking about all of the various rumors and what have you...

I don't think GW is run by idiots. I believe they actually know what they are doing. Especially in light of their competition, Warmachine got a new edition and spent a year releasing all new army books. I believe GW saw that and did their best to do the same.

Marines are popular and primarches are also popular. FW is releasing all of those models. Therefore, I think GW will very slightly advance the fluff and bring them into the mainline 40k game.

As much as tourney players want 40k to not be a narrative game amoung friends. GW wants it to be that. Not sure how many times they need to write that in the rules for the message to get thru...

I don't think they are gonna AoS 40k, I think a small fluff advance will happen and campaign books with codex-like rules will be the new norm.

This is like the 5th or so thread in the last few days on this alone now...

Most of the primarchs are dead or daemonic at this point in 40k.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/678037.page#8445953

While I do feel this is certainly a reasonable topic of discussion, there is a dearth of similar threads on this right now- check for any variant of "End Times," "AOS," and "40k" and you'll find somewhere to join the conversation.

This is the reason I don't really spend any time here.

I read some of the other threads and well...whatever.

Yeah, cool. I'm out of step.

No need to be upset, I didn't mean to offend. Just it would likely work out better to have added to the existing threads if you want discussion as many will see the few, see one with more posts and gravitate to that instead.

evancich wrote:
As much as tourney players want 40k to not be a narrative game amoung friends. GW wants it to be that. Not sure how many times they need to write that in the rules for the message to get thru...

No. Please stop repeating this myth because it isn't true. GW does not want 40k to be a narrative game, they want to use "narrative" as an excuse to sell you garbage at obscene prices. Screaming "FORGE A NARRATIVE" every other page does not make up for the lack of a campaign system, character advancement, story-based missions, etc. GW actually gives very little support for narrative players and the things they could do to improve tournament play would help just as much with narrative games. If 40k succeeds as a narrative game at all it is despite GW's failures, not because of their strengths.

 Peregrine wrote:
No. Please stop repeating this myth because it isn't true. GW does not want 40k to be a narrative game, they want to use "narrative" as an excuse to sell you garbage at obscene prices.

I disagree with you about wanting to sell garbage, because I happen to like GW models, but I otherwise completely agree with this

The path of least resistance to players paying the maximum price possible will be the one that GW chooses.

The models are... decent. Sometimes really good. Sometimes fething terrible.

The rules to support said models?

Mostly garbage.

Sorry but gw isn't run by competent people the last few years show this blatantly as each week they do something to cause fresh outrage.

They don't do market research, they don't communicate with customers that alone shows massive incompetence.

 Peregrine wrote:
Screaming "FORGE A NARRATIVE" every other page does not make up for the lack of a campaign system, character advancement, story-based missions, etc. GW actually gives very little support for narrative players...If 40k succeeds as a narrative game at all it is despite GW's failures, not because of their strengths.

...he says on the eve of the release of the 7th campaign book, bringing the total number of published 7th edition campaigns to four and the total number of story based missions to over 70. And that's after the Advent release of PATH OF GLORY - a "campaign supplement" - outlining a story driven campaign complete with character advancement. Not to mention the 45 echoes of War Missions and 4 Apoc campaign books in the blink-and-you'll-miss-it edition that was 6th. And, oh yeah, CRUSADE OF FIRE, the book entirely about how to run a narrative campaign.

And that's all from mainstream 40k, not including the five up-to-date complete FW campaigns, or the 85+ Altar of War missions that can be worked into stories of your own.

If there's any myth that needs to die, it's the tin foil hat conspiracy theory that "Forging the Narrative" is some internal corporate plot to cover up for their complete inability to either write a balanced rule set or hire someone to do so, rather than a design philosophy attempting to adapt with a changing marketplace. There are 14 story based campaigns published in the last three and a half years. A book on how to make your own. And something absurd, like, 300 missions floating around out there. Anyone who doesn't think GW is committed to this this fething idea needs to have his head surgically removed from his hindquarter. There's having a difference of opinion, and then there's just plum being wrong.

 Massawyrm wrote:
Intelligent words, and facts.

Your sir, get anew exalt.

 Massawyrm wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Screaming "FORGE A NARRATIVE" every other page does not make up for the lack of a campaign system, character advancement, story-based missions, etc. GW actually gives very little support for narrative players...If 40k succeeds as a narrative game at all it is despite GW's failures, not because of their strengths.

...he says on the eve of the release of the 7th campaign book, bringing the total number of published 7th edition campaigns to four and the total number of story based missions to over 70. And that's after the Advent release of PATH OF GLORY - a "campaign supplement" - outlining a story driven campaign complete with character advancement. Not to mention the 45 echoes of War Missions and 4 Apoc campaign books in the blink-and-you'll-miss-it edition that was 6th. And, oh yeah, CRUSADE OF FIRE, the book entirely about how to run a narrative campaign.

And that's all from mainstream 40k, not including the five up-to-date complete FW campaigns, or the 85+ Altar of War missions that can be worked into stories of your own.

If there's any myth that needs to die, it's the tin foil hat conspiracy theory that "Forging the Narrative" is some internal corporate plot to cover up for their complete inability to either write a balanced rule set or hire someone to do so, rather than a design philosophy attempting to adapt with a changing marketplace. There are 14 story based campaigns published in the last three and a half years. A book on how to make your own. And something absurd, like, 300 missions floating around out there. Anyone who doesn't think GW is committed to this this fething idea needs to have his head surgically removed from his hindquarter. There's having a difference of opinion, and then there's just plum being wrong.

Quoted for truth... +1 Massawyrm

Well Fenris is being attacked. By the Imperium.
The Angels bleed themselves dry again (ironic, huh) fighting Tyranids.
The Scars are returning home to head off a Ork invasion.
Tau are more or less a inconvenience.
Eldar have been using their amazing weapons and tactics, to hide.
Mork or Gork, Are using Ghazzy against the Tyranids, to create a huge number of Orks, that aint just boys.
Ultras are probably reading/ writing books. Or yelling at people for not following said books.

While its probably no longer 1 minute to midnight, Its 59 seconds to midnight, maybe 57.

Actually there's some pretty big implications Tau are on the cusp of discovering the warp and warp drive technology. Also a prophecy of Farsight being the only hope for the galaxy and the IoM falling. He is being helped by a Grey Knight trying to teach him to resist chaos.

A Tau Air Caste with warp drives would be frightening. Or who knows maybe they discover some other method of FTL. All I know is the story is being set up they are about to grow a lot bigger if they can survive the nids.

A Warp Drive is useless without a Navigator to guide you. Throwing yourself blind into the maelstrom of the Warp is a terrible, terrible idea.

GW has advanced fluff in the past before, the Eye of Terror campaign and Armageddon introduced a lot of interesting stuff, that was able to cycle out over time. I think they should really consider doing that in a greater way, but that would require more of a concentrated effort when designing a codex.

Just imagine an End Times where Chaos wins, the world is in shambles, and we see Marines being survivor factions, while other factions more on the fringes of the emperor's dead throne being those fighting chaos in force now. A supplement that offers corrupted units for all the factions, and the like, not a new army in itself, while other armies get new things to show their desperate state.

Then after that edition has passed, the Emperor returns, as the Star Child or whatever, and the dynamic of things shift. So forth and so on.

To be honest I think 40k needs something the game has for me became stale how ever gw decides to do it something needs to be done.

Some armys need reworked from ground up others completely replaced or something added to the game beyond the imperium. I don't know personally I really beleive something has to be done and I think it has to be big and has to be in big leaps at once rather than small releases.

 Tinkrr wrote:
GW has advanced fluff in the past before, the Eye of Terror campaign and Armageddon introduced a lot of interesting stuff, that was able to cycle out over time. I think they should really consider doing that in a greater way, but that would require more of a concentrated effort when designing a codex.

Just imagine an End Times where Chaos wins, the world is in shambles, and we see Marines being survivor factions, while other factions more on the fringes of the emperor's dead throne being those fighting chaos in force now. A supplement that offers corrupted units for all the factions, and the like, not a new army in itself, while other armies get new things to show their desperate state.

Then after that edition has passed, the Emperor returns, as the Star Child or whatever, and the dynamic of things shift. So forth and so on.

So totally can't wait for the Tau to ascend. Their technology to reach such a peak it can't be stopped also warp drives.

The Tau has psychic races allied to them that "could" be navigators if they needed them. I'm surprised that hasn't happened yet. Also if you read the FSE book that was published as a supplement it seems fairly obvious that the ethereals are fully aware of the Warp and have been hiding it from the larger Tau Empire to help keep them in check/guarded from the daemons.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
GW has advanced fluff in the past before, the Eye of Terror campaign and Armageddon introduced a lot of interesting stuff, that was able to cycle out over time. I think they should really consider doing that in a greater way, but that would require more of a concentrated effort when designing a codex.

Just imagine an End Times where Chaos wins, the world is in shambles, and we see Marines being survivor factions, while other factions more on the fringes of the emperor's dead throne being those fighting chaos in force now. A supplement that offers corrupted units for all the factions, and the like, not a new army in itself, while other armies get new things to show their desperate state.

Then after that edition has passed, the Emperor returns, as the Star Child or whatever, and the dynamic of things shift. So forth and so on.

So totally can't wait for the Tau to ascend. Their technology to reach such a peak it can't be stopped also warp drives.

They already kind of have advanced. I mean the whole Mont'ka and Shadowsun-K-Word-Thing, is what should have been the result of the Imperium collapsing on itself because of Chaos taking over.

I mean why have this dinky "Oh 'nids attacked so Tau grabbed some land" when you can have the golden thrown explode, the Tau start taking over as a result, the Orks rampage across space, and so forth and so on as a result. It's not like Imperium has to just stop, they have tons of worlds, they can still have massive forces, this isn't fantasy where everything is on one planet.

I hope that happens. I hope these aren't the big event spoken of that are coming out in the new line of two book splats. I hope there is an actual huge event coming up that will advance all plots at once and be awesome. So interesting there will be books devoted to telling the stories and interactions of all the factions as gak gets real and that these two set books are all the big set up. Then again I never hope from GW and this allows me to remain content.

I never ever wanted some self contained plot.

 Tinkrr wrote:
I mean why have this dinky "Oh 'nids attacked so Tau grabbed some land" when you can have the golden thrown explode, the Tau start taking over as a result, the Orks rampage across space, and so forth and so on as a result. It's not like Imperium has to just stop, they have tons of worlds, they can still have massive forces, this isn't fantasy where everything is on one planet.

Because nobody gives a about the story of 40k. The official story is not the point, it's just the background setting. The whole point of 40k's fluff is that it's pretty much static and the players do all of the interesting stuff. If GW changes the setting then they invalidate the stories that the players have written and that's not supposed to happen.

 Psienesis wrote:
A Warp Drive is useless without a Navigator to guide you. Throwing yourself blind into the maelstrom of the Warp is a terrible, terrible idea.

Perhaps the Tau will invent a navigation machine to replace navigators, as happened in the Dune novels.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
A Warp Drive is useless without a Navigator to guide you. Throwing yourself blind into the maelstrom of the Warp is a terrible, terrible idea.

Perhaps the Tau will invent a navigation machine to replace navigators, as happened in the Dune novels.

That would be so befitting the original inspiration of the novels and for the Tau to just out tech the problem. I would just laugh so hard if the only real thing IoM has experience with (warp and navigation) is proven completely wrong and also the Eldar are going to feel super dumb. Please do it GW I want to see the tears.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
A Warp Drive is useless without a Navigator to guide you. Throwing yourself blind into the maelstrom of the Warp is a terrible, terrible idea.

Perhaps the Tau will invent a navigation machine to replace navigators, as happened in the Dune novels.

That would be so befitting the original inspiration of the novels and for the Tau to just out tech the problem. I would just laugh so hard if the only real thing IoM has experience with (warp and navigation) is proven completely wrong and also the Eldar are going to feel super dumb. Please do it GW I want to see the tears.

It wouldn't really make the other factions look worse if they were to do that.

Each Faction has their own way of looking at things, To the IoM, Since they have more bodies than they know what to do with, using a Navigator and sometimes loosing a ship here and there makes more sense than working on safer tech. For the Eldar, the Webway was made by one of, if not THE most advanced Races ever, the very same race that CREATED most living things in the galaxy. If I had access to their toys, I wouldn't be looking to build a better mousetrap either.

One of my Favorite things about the Tau, and the exact reason that even though I haven't played them since shortly after the 6th ed codex dropped and probably never will, they'll always be a faction near and dear to me, being my first army, is because of their outlook on most problems.

Since they are limited in manpower compared to most factions, their Solutions pretty much boil down to either Asking a neighbor for help or just straight up saying "Don't even worry about it, fam. Lemme tinker around with something real quick and see what I can do"

When your faction doesn't have so many bodies that mass genocide doesn't happen as a part of a regular 9-5 shift, or your faction doesn't have access to the toys Gods handed down to them, asking for help or general R&D is the completely rational thing to do.

 Iur_tae_mont wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
A Warp Drive is useless without a Navigator to guide you. Throwing yourself blind into the maelstrom of the Warp is a terrible, terrible idea.

Perhaps the Tau will invent a navigation machine to replace navigators, as happened in the Dune novels.

That would be so befitting the original inspiration of the novels and for the Tau to just out tech the problem. I would just laugh so hard if the only real thing IoM has experience with (warp and navigation) is proven completely wrong and also the Eldar are going to feel super dumb. Please do it GW I want to see the tears.

It wouldn't really make the other factions look worse if they were to do that.

Each Faction has their own way of looking at things, To the IoM, Since they have more bodies than they know what to do with, using a Navigator and sometimes loosing a ship here and there makes more sense than working on safer tech. For the Eldar, the Webway was made by one of, if not THE most advanced Races ever, the very same race that CREATED most living things in the galaxy. If I had access to their toys, I wouldn't be looking to build a better mousetrap either.

One of my Favorite things about the Tau, and the exact reason that even though I haven't played them since shortly after the 6th ed codex dropped and probably never will, they'll always be a faction near and dear to me, being my first army, is because of their outlook on most problems.

Since they are limited in manpower compared to most factions, their Solutions pretty much boil down to either Asking a neighbor for help or just straight up saying "Don't even worry about it, fam. Lemme tinker around with something real quick and see what I can do"

When your faction doesn't have so many bodies that mass genocide doesn't happen as a part of a regular 9-5 shift, or your faction doesn't have access to the toys Gods handed down to them, asking for help or general R&D is the completely rational thing to do.

That idea of having limited resources is why I don't like the 9 man standard crisis squads. It was a cute gimic for farsight, but I'd personally be fine dialiang them back down to 3.

Honestly anyone who fields them that big is doing it wrong anyways.

The whole point of 40k's fluff is that it's pretty much static and the players do all of the interesting stuff.

Sorry but this just isnt true at all.

I've been reading a lot of the Warzone books of late and whilst not all of them are amazing, there are some damn good ones which some very good fluff and stories and some great missions - Damolces, Pandorex, Red Waaagh, Montka, Valedor, Sanctus et al. Not to mention the FW IA campaign books.

Saying GW dosent tell stories in the 40k setting, or focus on events and fluff is just plain BS.

As to players doing interesting stuff, how exactly are they doing this if GW dosent provide these background scenarios? Dodgy home brew missions?

 Ratius wrote:

The whole point of 40k's fluff is that it's pretty much static and the players do all of the interesting stuff.

Sorry but this just isnt true at all.

I've been reading a lot of the Warzone books of late and whilst not all of them are amazing, there are some damn good ones which some very good fluff and stories and some great missions - Damolces, Pandorex, Red Waaagh, Montka, Valedor, Sanctus et al. Not to mention the FW IA campaign books.

Saying GW dosent tell stories in the 40k setting, or focus on events and fluff is just plain BS.

As to players doing interesting stuff, how exactly are they doing this if GW dosent provide these background scenarios? Dodgy home brew missions?

Not to mention there's nothing to say you have to be at the current and present date either.