Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello would like to know feedback and if someone have matchup experience with nick nanavati demon list
2N heralds, 2 Tz heralds 8plague drones, 2x8 screamers 11+11 horrors Kairos
if someone have hints, matchup experiences , how you should change list after latest COTW supplement, or something interesting about that list, is welcome to comment tysm

He brought a different list for the LVO, which includes a Tz Chaos Knight Paladin (imagine a 2++ with reroll IK rampaging thru your army). Didn't do too well tho at the tourney :(

yes i know i was asking if someone played this list and have some hints, infos.He played only two turns 1st match and he lost i dont think the problem was the list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
i still need to find where is write a Tz chaoss knight get reroll on saves of 1.
i am looking to fit that list at 1650 (tournament organization decided for 1650pt) so to fit a knight i should take off both screamers units and i m not sure is a good idea, screamers are useful at maelstroma nd to get a very resilient unit where put heralds.

The tzeentch knigth thing is an ITC ruling

yes and i said i didn't find where it is write.In that tournament they want use ITC rules

 blackmage wrote:
yes i know i was asking if someone played this list and have some hints, infos.He played only two turns 1st match and he lost i dont think the problem was the list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
i still need to find where is write a Tz chaoss knight get reroll on saves of 1.
i am looking to fit that list at 1650 (tournament organization decided for 1650pt) so to fit a knight i should take off both screamers units and i m not sure is a good idea, screamers are useful at maelstroma nd to get a very resilient unit where put heralds.

I play that list a lot. The 1650 version of his list would basically take out one of the nurgle heralds and replace the pink horrors with nurglings. You get to keep everything else. The Wulfen book gives you access to the Doomsday bell, which I would definitely recommend including. Definitely worth 30 points

If you want to run a list with an imperial knight, I actually prefer the khorne one. Getting +d3 attacks and re-rolling how many stomps you get is pretty clutch, and you can get a relic to make his invuln save a 4++ for 35 points. The 1650 list I would run with the knight would be as follows:

CSM CAD:

Be'Lakor

10 Cultists
10 Cultists

Chaos Knight Paladin of Khorne with 1st War of Armageddon Legacy of Ruin

Daemons CAD:

Fatey
D-Thirster w/Grim

Nurglings
10 Pink Horrors

so you suggest 4 CW less but keep both screamers units, interesting to know ty.
what is legacy of ruin i dont have that expansion

I think base on OP's first post he's more interested in bringing Nick's classic 2015 Daemon Army which is probably better for 1650 without making too much modifications.

Basically Nick would use the Dronestar as a tank and it is very resilient, good to control center of the board. The HoN rolls on Bio, and if he gets the right powers like warp speed and iron arm, the Dronestar will basically wipe out almost everything it touches with its high attack output.

The screamers would fly around as a natural anti-tank/infantry and can also tank dangerous units if its grim+cursed earth. Most importantly the HoT would be with them flying around summoning more daemons every turn. Fatey is just there to give its re-roll powers and to act as a flying shooting platform and summoner.

Its still a very good list, but requires good player skills and decision making, and Nick is one of the best in game. However in the current meta, a lot of armies are bringing anti-cover shootings which can give Dronestar a disadvantage. Screamer star is more effective in Nova format than in ITC due to the nerf to 2+ reroll.

indeed this is why i dont want play a list heavily based on screamerstar, yes some armies have lot of anti cover, but beside tau i didn't see so much around, some necrons with nebuloscope, that is where grimorie come in handy, at least if you have no cover you still have 3++ and FNP. Just need find good balance to fit it at 1650pts

Now I'm not saying its bad or anything, but Nick's 2015 list is a little outdated. In the ITC format, Chaos Knights are the new Daemon Hotness. They are extremely cheap for what they bing to the table, especially when buffed up. That is why many Daemon/Chaos players are gravitating towards Chaos Knights in the ITC (fyi, ITC is the only major format that allows them to my knowledge).

yes you right but here in Italy very seldon they let chaos knight to be played, a user above suggested a list with a chaos knight at 1650pts but i m just unsure how that can perform at maelstrom, too few pieces and too few WC to rely on constant flood of summoming, only 9+d6 WC aren't a lot you will use at least 5 each turn for invisibility on D thirster and left you with just 4+d6 for the rest, summoning takes at least 6-7 dices .

 jy2 wrote:
Now I'm not saying its bad or anything, but Nick's 2015 list is a little outdated. In the ITC format, Chaos Knights are the new Daemon Hotness. They are extremely cheap for what they bing to the table, especially when buffed up. That is why many Daemon/Chaos players are gravitating towards Chaos Knights in the ITC (fyi, ITC is the only major format that allows them to my knowledge).

Yep I agree, Nick's old list can still probably beat face at your local gaming tourney but might not at a GT.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 blackmage wrote:
yes you right but here in Italy very seldon they let chaos knight to be played, a user above suggested a list with a chaos knight at 1650pts but i m just unsure how that can perform at maelstrom, too few pieces and too few WC to rely on constant flood of summoming, only 9+d6 WC aren't a lot you will use at least 5 each turn for invisibility on D thirster and left you with just 4+d6 for the rest, summoning takes at least 6-7 dices .

Nick's LVO list had 14 WC
Fateweaver
Herald of Tzeentch; Disc, Grimoire, Lv. 3
Herald of Tzeentch; Disc, Lv. 3
Herald of Nurgle; Lv. 2, Greater reward, Locus of feel no pain
Herald of Nurgle; Lv. 2, greater reward,
Nurglings
Nurglings
Plague Drones x7; Champion with greater reward
7x Screamers
Chaos Knight Paladin of Tzeentch
- See more at: https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/02/04/las-vegas-open-2016-day-1-blog/#sthash.WpS2Z0Jg.dpuf

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Now I'm not saying its bad or anything, but Nick's 2015 list is a little outdated. In the ITC format, Chaos Knights are the new Daemon Hotness. They are extremely cheap for what they bing to the table, especially when buffed up. That is why many Daemon/Chaos players are gravitating towards Chaos Knights in the ITC (fyi, ITC is the only major format that allows them to my knowledge).

Yep I agree, Nick's old list can still probably beat face at your local gaming tourney but might not at a GT.

It's still very good. Few armies can boast being so spoiled as to have multiple top tier tournament level builds. You don't want to summon - you want to buff up the screamers and the plague drones so that they are absolutely unkillable


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Interesting that he took a knight in a daemons CAD....would be interesting to toy around with. I wonder if re-rolling ones is worth not having +1 invuln...guess it's not as huge of a deal with the ion shield

Nick's LVO list had 14 WC
Fateweaver
Herald of Tzeentch; Disc, Grimoire, Lv. 3
Herald of Tzeentch; Disc, Lv. 3
Herald of Nurgle; Lv. 2, Greater reward, Locus of feel no pain
Herald of Nurgle; Lv. 2, greater reward,
Nurglings
Nurglings
Plague Drones x7; Champion with greater reward
7x Screamers
Chaos Knight Paladin of Tzeentch
- See more at: https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/02/04/las-vegas-open-2016-day-1-blog/#sthash.WpS2Z0Jg.dpuf
yes i know i was talking about that chaos list proposed by another user above


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 luke1705 wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Now I'm not saying its bad or anything, but Nick's 2015 list is a little outdated. In the ITC format, Chaos Knights are the new Daemon Hotness. They are extremely cheap for what they bing to the table, especially when buffed up. That is why many Daemon/Chaos players are gravitating towards Chaos Knights in the ITC (fyi, ITC is the only major format that allows them to my knowledge).

Yep I agree, Nick's old list can still probably beat face at your local gaming tourney but might not at a GT.

It's still very good. Few armies can boast being so spoiled as to have multiple top tier tournament level builds. You don't want to summon - you want to buff up the screamers and the plague drones so that they are absolutely unkillable


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Interesting that he took a knight in a daemons CAD....would be interesting to toy around with. I wonder if re-rolling ones is worth not having +1 invuln...guess it's not as huge of a deal with the ion shield

i had chance to watch some nanavati's matches and yes he summoned a lot

With the knight you lose a lot of bodies. The old list that he had included pink horrors (which are so annoying to remove) and another full unit of screamers (in lieu of the knight of course).

I meant that that list doesn't usually need to summon all that much. But yes with the knight you have very few bodies so do need to summon more often.

well... i watched a match nanavati old list against another demon, and he summoned in just 3 turns, horrors, tz herald, demonettes and other 2 horrors units ,almost 2 unit/ turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
anyway tysm for feedbacks that help me a lot

 luke1705 wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Now I'm not saying its bad or anything, but Nick's 2015 list is a little outdated. In the ITC format, Chaos Knights are the new Daemon Hotness. They are extremely cheap for what they bing to the table, especially when buffed up. That is why many Daemon/Chaos players are gravitating towards Chaos Knights in the ITC (fyi, ITC is the only major format that allows them to my knowledge).

Yep I agree, Nick's old list can still probably beat face at your local gaming tourney but might not at a GT.

It's still very good. Few armies can boast being so spoiled as to have multiple top tier tournament level builds. You don't want to summon - you want to buff up the screamers and the plague drones so that they are absolutely unkillable


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Interesting that he took a knight in a daemons CAD....would be interesting to toy around with. I wonder if re-rolling ones is worth not having +1 invuln...guess it's not as huge of a deal with the ion shield

One of the major problems with Nick's list currently is that his units have no ways to get out of combat. All the really good deathstars currently has either Hit-&-Run or can Gate out of combat. A Knight solves this problem because 1) he can potentially Stomp his way out against unkillable deathstars and 2) even if he does got tarpitted, he's dirt cheap at around 420-450-pts compared to the 500-600-pt Screamerstar or the 700-800-pt Dronestar.

There are a number of ways to get +1 Inv. There is Forewarning. There is Cursed Earth and there is Tzeentch Warlord trait now, though I don't see him taking someone else over Fateweaver as the Warlord unless it is in a Daemoncurion build. Tzeentch Knights are actually the preferred Daemon Knight over the Khorne Knight, at least in most armies currently. But that could change. I'm currently running the Murderhorde with a Khorne Knight + Legacy and it is really good. There are a lot of good things you can do with the Khorne Knight in the ITC. People just don't know it yet.

 luke1705 wrote:
If you want to run a list with an imperial knight, I actually prefer the khorne one. Getting +d3 attacks and re-rolling how many stomps you get is pretty clutch, and you can get a relic to make his invuln save a 4++ for 35 points.

The applications for this are amazing. Plop a knight down and surround him by 9 bloodcrushers. Give the crushers or the knight a 2++ with the grim.

Even just moving from a 5++ to a 4++ is a big jump, it's 50% more damage mitigation. Instead of mitigating 33.3% of incoming damage, you get a boost of 16.6% for a 50% total damage mitigation.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
If you want to run a list with an imperial knight, I actually prefer the khorne one. Getting +d3 attacks and re-rolling how many stomps you get is pretty clutch, and you can get a relic to make his invuln save a 4++ for 35 points.

The applications for this are amazing. Plop a knight down and surround him by 9 bloodcrushers. Give the crushers or the knight a 2++ with the grim.

Even just moving from a 5++ to a 4++ is a big jump, it's 50% more damage mitigation. Instead of mitigating 33.3% of incoming damage, you get a boost of 16.6% for a 50% total damage mitigation.

Imagine running the Murderhorde with the Knight, where all your flesh hounds, bloodletters and crushers around him are getting 4-ups! He becomes a HUGE force-multiplier.

 jy2 wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Now I'm not saying its bad or anything, but Nick's 2015 list is a little outdated. In the ITC format, Chaos Knights are the new Daemon Hotness. They are extremely cheap for what they bing to the table, especially when buffed up. That is why many Daemon/Chaos players are gravitating towards Chaos Knights in the ITC (fyi, ITC is the only major format that allows them to my knowledge).

Yep I agree, Nick's old list can still probably beat face at your local gaming tourney but might not at a GT.

It's still very good. Few armies can boast being so spoiled as to have multiple top tier tournament level builds. You don't want to summon - you want to buff up the screamers and the plague drones so that they are absolutely unkillable


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Interesting that he took a knight in a daemons CAD....would be interesting to toy around with. I wonder if re-rolling ones is worth not having +1 invuln...guess it's not as huge of a deal with the ion shield

One of the major problems with Nick's list currently is that his units have no ways to get out of combat. All the really good deathstars currently has either Hit-&-Run or can Gate out of combat. A Knight solves this problem because 1) he can potentially Stomp his way out against unkillable deathstars and 2) even if he does got tarpitted, he's dirt cheap at around 420-450-pts compared to the 500-600-pt Screamerstar or the 700-800-pt Dronestar.

There are a number of ways to get +1 Inv. There is Forewarning. There is Cursed Earth and there is Tzeentch Warlord trait now, though I don't see him taking someone else over Fateweaver as the Warlord unless it is in a Daemoncurion build. Tzeentch Knights are actually the preferred Daemon Knight over the Khorne Knight, at least in most armies currently. But that could change. I'm currently running the Murderhorde with a Khorne Knight + Legacy and it is really good. There are a lot of good things you can do with the Khorne Knight in the ITC. People just don't know it yet.

Lets see your Khorne list! Honestly I'm not very impressed with any of the Daemon formations in terms making it in the tier 1 meta.

Nick isn't into 40K that much anymore, he only really plays because his partner Zach Pawl likes to.

i dont know what legacy of ruin do

 blackmage wrote:
i dont know what legacy of ruin do

Google it.
It's a IA rule that lets you buy a trait for a vehicle per 1000 points of your army.

ITC lets you put them onto a chaos knight, which opens up some nice combos.

ty i asked they dont let use imperial armor books beside chaos knights

 blackmage wrote:
ty i asked they dont let use imperial armor books beside chaos knights

Local metas are like that. You just have to work with what you have, right?

Where in the FAQ does ITC allow Legacies on Demon Aligned Knights? (So I can start doing it!)

Also, would a Khorne Knight work better in a Murderhorde or in a Demonkin army? Are the objective capturing and buff stacking better than Fearless and Bloodtithe?

Does the 1st War of Arm have to be placed on a CSM knight? Or can it be used on Daemons or Daemonkin? Based on the IA you can only put on CSM so would need a CAD

 blackmage wrote:
ty i asked they dont let use imperial armor books beside chaos knights

The ITC is the only major tournament circuit that allows Chaos Knights at this time. NOVA or Adepticon does not yet, at least not to my knowledge.

However, ITC is currently the most popular standard here in the US so a lot of us gets to enjoy our Legacy Knights.

 whitedragon wrote:
Where in the FAQ does ITC allow Legacies on Demon Aligned Knights? (So I can start doing it!)

Also, would a Khorne Knight work better in a Murderhorde or in a Demonkin army? Are the objective capturing and buff stacking better than Fearless and Bloodtithe?

It has just been voted in a couple of weeks ago. I'm not sure if the FLG guys got around to updating their FAQ yet but it is currently legal in their system.

Results of the Poll can be found here:

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/02/29/signals-from-the-frontline-413/

It would work great in both a Murderhorde or Daemonkin army.

skycapt44 wrote:
Does the 1st War of Arm have to be placed on a CSM knight? Or can it be used on Daemons or Daemonkin? Based on the IA you can only put on CSM so would need a CAD

It's got to be on a Chaos Space Marines or Renegades vehicle. So no, Daemons and Daemonkin doesn't work. That's right. You need to run a CSM CAD to put it on a Knight.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

Lets see your Khorne list! Honestly I'm not very impressed with any of the Daemon formations in terms making it in the tier 1 meta.

1850 Murderhorde + CSM

Murderhorde:

Herald - Jugger, Hatred Loci, Exalted Gift (Grimoire)

8x5 Flesh Hounds

Furies

D-Thirster - 2x Greater Gifts, Armor of Scorn

CSM CAD:

Sorcerer

2 Cultists

Khorne Knight - 1st War of Armageddon

Void Shield Generator w/1 Shield

Can a culuxus not nullify his invis? I figured dropping a pod with it and a cent pod would ruin the knights day.

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:
Can a culuxus not nullify his invis? I figured dropping a pod with it and a cent pod would ruin the knights day.

Invis can be nullified but not the Grimoire or the Legacies. They aren't psychics powers.