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Which one is better vs which type of units?
Is one better at certain point values then the other?
On average which one do you think performs stronger (vs the majority of what you see on the tabletop)?
Discuss

How very broad of you!

I suppose the first question I'd have to ask you is what rule set to you usually play with?

ITC, Nova, House Rules, BRB rules, Adepticon, etc.

This provides information about how the Super Heavy will be played. Mission points every 3 wounds you strip off (BRB), Toe in Terrain working with GMC (ITC), +1 to Seize the Initiative (ITC), No downsides for SH (Nova).

There are a couple of pros and cons for using Super Heavies in general that differ place to place. Without knowing what rule set you are using, it's hard to have a starting point.

Saythings asks really good questions.

I would also add that the riptide and stormsurge are very different points wise and power wise model per model. A kitted riptide may run you halfish what a kitted stormsurge will run you. So you may want to consider that in your calculations. Also consider the formations that each can be in too. I personally don’t use stormsurges. My main reason being I don’t like building a list around one model. Which in my mind you have to do a bit because it really defines your list to have one. I like the versatility of a riptide wing and multi riptide lists.

Here are a few Pros I see of each (not comparing them to each other at the moment)

RIPTIDE
-Nova Reactor is versatile with four profiles to choose from as needed.
-Great mobility as a jet pack MC
-Sturdy, very hard to kill with T6 and 2+/5++ and…
-Can take FNP easily
-Access to a 72” weapon with 3 profiles (Iontides)
-Very reliable shooting (no randomness to weapons save the scatter on the large blast (Iontides))

STORMSURGE
-D weapon, 4 shots is still not bad at that range (60”?).
-T6
-Insane weapons (in additions to the Destroyer shots)
-Access to wargear to increase its ability to live and mess things up
-The anchors are not at all bad if you can defend the model well enough to let it stand still for a bit
-It’s a gargantuan creature

Now a few Cons

RIPTIDE
-Really work best in groups (IMO)
-Must shoot at the same enemy as it’s unit (So 3 tides in one unit really just destroy one thing a turn)
-Chance to get Nova reactor wounds. (Although only about 11% per roll if you have FNP)

STORMSURGE
-Only 3+ save no ++ save built in
-The Anchors can make it vulnerable
-Kitting it can be pricey in points.
-No Jet pack
-You could roll poorly on the cluster rockets.
-Can’t supporting fire or overwatch
-I don’t THINK it has a Blacksun Filter (That is just in my mind for some reason, it may be wrong)


Like I said I prefer Multi-Tide lists to the Stormsurge (which you will likely not run in multiples) So I am a little biased. But that is my list of straight pros and cons. There are more I’m sure, but that’s what I think of right off.

 Zeuriel wrote:
Saythings asks really good questions.

I would also add that the riptide and stormsurge are very different points wise and power wise model per model. A kitted riptide may run you halfish what a kitted stormsurge will run you. So you may want to consider that in your calculations. Also consider the formations that each can be in too. I personally don’t use stormsurges. My main reason being I don’t like building a list around one model. Which in my mind you have to do a bit because it really defines your list to have one. I like the versatility of a riptide wing and multi riptide lists.

Here are a few Pros I see of each (not comparing them to each other at the moment)

RIPTIDE
-Nova Reactor is versatile with four profiles to choose from as needed.
-Great mobility as a jet pack MC
-Sturdy, very hard to kill with T6 and 2+/5++ and…
-Can take FNP easily
-Access to a 72” weapon with 3 profiles (Iontides)
-Very reliable shooting (no randomness to weapons save the scatter on the large blast (Iontides))

STORMSURGE
-D weapon, 4 shots is still not bad at that range (60”?).
-T6
-Insane weapons (in additions to the Destroyer shots)
-Access to wargear to increase its ability to live and mess things up
-The anchors are not at all bad if you can defend the model well enough to let it stand still for a bit
-It’s a gargantuan creature

Now a few Cons

RIPTIDE
-Really work best in groups (IMO)
-Must shoot at the same enemy as it’s unit (So 3 tides in one unit really just destroy one thing a turn)
-Chance to get Nova reactor wounds. (Although only about 11% per roll if you have FNP)

STORMSURGE
-Only 3+ save no ++ save built in
-The Anchors can make it vulnerable
-Kitting it can be pricey in points.
-No Jet pack
-You could roll poorly on the cluster rockets.
-Can’t supporting fire or overwatch
-I don’t THINK it has a Blacksun Filter (That is just in my mind for some reason, it may be wrong)


Like I said I prefer Multi-Tide lists to the Stormsurge (which you will likely not run in multiples) So I am a little biased. But that is my list of straight pros and cons. There are more I’m sure, but that’s what I think of right off.

It lacks a Blacksun filter, despite what it has in the fluff.

Riptides are for killing infantry, Stormsurges are for killing tanks, SHW / GMC and deep striking grav cents.

Riptides are good from 500 points all the way to apocalypse, IMHO Stormsurges are good from 1250 to about 2000, then it's too easy to bring enough to destroy a significant chunk of points whereas a Riptide can soak almost the same amount of fire for half the points while being less threatening.

The Stormsurge probably has more impact, but the Riptide is more common and doesn't require a list built around it.

They don't really compare well despite being tau MC's with large high str ap2 blasts, secondary str 5 ap 5 missiles and fnp.

It lacks a Blacksun filter, despite what it has in the fluff.

Stupid open top GMC!

SJ

If you find your meta fields lots of other super heavies or GMCs then a stormsurge is I think better then a riptide. Mainly for the D missles. Otherwise Tau has no easy solution to that... more so i am talking about Wraithknights.

But yeah otherwise I think a riptide is more versatile, and because of this can be taken in just about any list you make. I rarely have success with one riptide in my list.. but when i bring two or more they start doing very well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I wanted to add that the 3+ save on the surge might seem like an issue, but it actually really helps them survive grav spam easier.

Tau are just screwed when it comes to warp spiders...

Drone-Net bubble wrap make Spiders cry.

SJ

I vote mallet for both of them.