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The root causes of Islamic terrorism are many. Economics, the dogma of the religion, the culture of the Middle East.

If the West bombs, them, many argue this makes more terrorists.

I'd hazard that even if every person in the world converted to Islam tomorrow, there would still be terror attacks.

Every time there is, neighborhoods get raided, people lose their rights in some way, and nothing stops the attacks.

So my proposal is....let them happen and just ignore them. Yes, lives will be lost. It'll end up being the same thing as a hurricane or tornado...a force of nature.

It's a recurring theme we see in inner cities with drug crime. Take down one dealer, a new one shows up. Even with legalization, there's still a black market and the gangs don't really go away.

Evil fills a vacuum.

General Hobbs wrote:
So my proposal is....let them happen and just ignore them. Yes, lives will be lost. It'll end up being the same thing as a hurricane or tornado...a force of nature.

Isn't that the current response, normally? Someone rolls out a piano, sings 'Imagine' by John Lennon while crying, then we all go back to sleep until the next attack?

 VorpalBunny74 wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:
So my proposal is....let them happen and just ignore them. Yes, lives will be lost. It'll end up being the same thing as a hurricane or tornado...a force of nature.

Isn't that the current response, normally? Someone rolls out a piano, sings 'Imagine' by John Lennon while crying, then we all go back to sleep until the next attack?

That comment was all too real...

General Hobbs wrote:
The root causes of Islamic terrorism are many. Economics, the dogma of the religion, the culture of the Middle East.

If the West bombs, them, many argue this makes more terrorists.

You seem to have set up a framework in which you acknowledge the diverse causes of terrorism, but then only consider bombing as the means to prevent terrorism. Why shouldn't we address the economic, cultural and religious causes of terrorism, and approach those in ways other than bombs?

And why dismiss the effect of security and surveillance in preventing some attacks?

 sebster wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:
The root causes of Islamic terrorism are many. Economics, the dogma of the religion, the culture of the Middle East.

If the West bombs, them, many argue this makes more terrorists.

You seem to have set up a framework in which you acknowledge the diverse causes of terrorism, but then only consider bombing as the means to prevent terrorism. Why shouldn't we address the economic, cultural and religious causes of terrorism, and approach those in ways other than bombs?

And why dismiss the effect of security and surveillance in preventing some attacks?

I believe merely preventing the attacks as a reactionary measure is not simply enough as you will never be able to stop every attack. We should be on the proaction approach and prevent the seeds of terrorism from spawning: poverty, hunger and oppression. Unfortunately, it is doubtful solving these issues would stop terrorism.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I believe merely preventing the attacks as a reactionary measure is not simply enough as you will never be able to stop every attack. We should be on the proaction approach and prevent the seeds of terrorism from spawning: poverty, hunger and oppression. Unfortunately, it is doubtful solving these issues would stop terrorism.

That's letting perfection be the enemy of good. If a process stops some attacks then it is better than doing nothing, even if it doesn't stop all attacks.

Ignorance is Bliss? Stop demonizing Islam, work with the moderate Muslims to put an end to the hardline Muslims, Stop supporting countries that bankroll these terrorist organisations. There is no easy road.

One strange thing with these terrorists is how so many of them are said to have been not very religious at all. Like the guy suspected of planning much of the Paris attacks, Salah Abdeslam - keeping a bar, smoking pot, playing console games and frequenting gay bars.Or quite a few of those who join ISIS and spout one-line slogans they barely understand. What is it that makes a youngster brought up in a western country suddenly decide to dedicate himself to not only a religion he's had little interest in but the most brutal aspects of it?

No reply? So we let people die and do not hunt the perpetrators?

Umm apeasement did not work with Hitler, and this ones a even nastier foe.

I have a counter proposal, give them what they want, a full scale war, we should treat these people like we treated the nazis and systematically wipe them out, then make sure they know for generations to come, don't feth with Europe.

 Formosa wrote:
I have a counter proposal, give them what they want, a full scale war, we should treat these people like we treated the nazis and systematically wipe them out, then make sure they know for generations to come, don't feth with Europe.

EU lacks backbone required for that. They are too concerned about human rights of terrorists, criminals etc. Bombing the gak out of then would probably breach there human rights to cause terror or such....
plus EU military capabilities are so weak vs what where. Need a large rearming program.

 Formosa wrote:
I have a counter proposal, give them what they want, a full scale war, we should treat these people like we treated the nazis and systematically wipe them out, then make sure they know for generations to come, don't feth with Europe.

I don't think it would work, I can't think of single historical precedent for terrorists being defeated by "full scale war". The best way to deal with terrorists is to undermine their support. Most people only look to extremists when they feel they are out of other options. If people feel they can make a nice life for themselves by running their farms and businesses, then violent fanatics are just a liability.

Fight violence with more violence and stigmatizing innocent people because some cowards with the same skin color/religion did that will never be a solution.

It will only bring more violence and get more people drawn to the conclusion there is no compromise/hope possible - and then become radicalized.

That's why I'm tired to read stupid people's comments about wanting to bomb everything and kick out all refugees, like it was able to resolve anything at all.

It doesn't. It will just fuel the terrorist's propaganda.

Spreading panic by talking over and over about these disgusting events and thus giving strength to the fear of terror attacks is only playing their game. Better to get more vigilant, fighting the true roots of Evil and stop playing the populist demagogue.

Spetulhu wrote:
One strange thing with these terrorists is how so many of them are said to have been not very religious at all. Like the guy suspected of planning much of the Paris attacks, Salah Abdeslam - keeping a bar, smoking pot, playing console games and frequenting gay bars.Or quite a few of those who join ISIS and spout one-line slogans they barely understand. What is it that makes a youngster brought up in a western country suddenly decide to dedicate himself to not only a religion he's had little interest in but the most brutal aspects of it?

I think it's entitlement, life isn't giving them want they want or feel not appreciated and they blame it on society. Escapism, substance abuse, religion, and a need for a purpose in life, this makes them easy targets for extremist organizations. Access is easy enough through some mosques and the internet.

No. i only feel better about myself when we bomb the feth out of terrorists.

If you have brown people in your country, better tell them to watch the feth out!

 Formosa wrote:
I have a counter proposal, give them what they want, a full scale war, we should treat these people like we treated the nazis and systematically wipe them out, then make sure they know for generations to come, don't feth with Europe.

I'll second this assessment.

Unfortunately, direct military confrontation is not an option with most terrorist forces as they are not conventional militaries but ideological groups that draw support from multiple nations. A knee jerk military action with high civilian casualties/collateral damage would be a dream for these groups as it legitimizes and validates them.

It is important to remember that these groups have different goals and do not always get along well with each other. They are generally opportunistic but lack the resources to conduct more than occasional civilian attacks. ISIS has the closest thing to a standing army, and they are suffering tremendous setbacks and turning back to traditional terrorist activities.

Good intelligence is the biggest threat to these groups. That means investigation and effective communication between intelligence groups. That is how you track the funding, recruiting, and planning of these groups. One of the big issues that we have with cutting funding is that one of the biggest funders of these groups is also a western ally- Saudi Arabia.

However, overly porous borders and turning a blind eye to the problem doesn't help at all. These groups are more than happy to pose as refugees or asylum seekers to infiltrate targets that do inadequate screening. Likewise, supporting so called moderates failed terribly in Syria as they were subsumed by more radicalized groups. Fortunately, regional factionalism helped out as the Kurds have been much more effective.

 jhe90 wrote:
No reply? So we let people die and do not hunt the perpetrators?

Umm apeasement did not work with Hitler, and this ones a even nastier foe.

Nastier than Hitler? *sigh* Why do people have such short memories?

The best thing would be to ignore the Middle East entirely. The current chaos there is ultimately caused by countries in other parts of the world sticking their noses where they don't belong. Let the Middle East develop and stabilise without foreign meddling.
Unfortenately, knowing the wonderful world of power politics that is never going to happen. So that leaves us without solutions. We will just have to deal with it and remember that as bad it may be for us, the people in the Middle East suffer much, much worse from it.

Alternatively, for a change of pace, we could stop bombing the Middle East and bomb the US, Israel, UK and France instead. Those are the countries that are mostly responsible for the current gak and terrorism in the Middle East. Maybe that would teach them a lesson about drawing lines on maps...

Stop bombing as a political gesture (gotta do something, bombing is something - better start bombing!).

But don't stop engaging with the region. Economic levers (both sanctions and aid), diplomatic efforts.

Address the inequalities that piss off minorities who are likely to become radicalized at home (ie. Feth off, neo-liberal capitalism).

In the end though, this will merely reduce the frequency of terrorist attacks. The world inevitably means that some people's interests get trodden on. I don't think it's avoidable. Those people will always be pissed off, and some of them will always be pissed off enough to counter using violent means. If you want to use violence to achieve a political aim these days, an insurgency with terrorist outrages in your enemies spheres of influence is the most effective way to do it.

I mean, those of you saying "Give them a war!" - what exactly would that war entail? They're not going to line up and fight you.

They wear no uniforms, they blend in with the populace, they don't typically gather in large groups.

How do you find them? How do you root them out?

Kill every male between the ages of 15 and 35?

 kronk wrote:
They wear no uniforms, they blend in with the populace, they don't typically gather in large groups.

How do you find them? How do you root them out?

Kill every male between the ages of 15 and 35?

There was a 15-year old girl in Germany who stabbed a LEO just a few weeks ago; she admitted she wanted to do a small-scale terror attack and that she was in contact with radical Islamists. So...I guess those guys advocating full-scale military operations will have to napalm-bomb girl's middle schools, too?

 Smacks wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
I have a counter proposal, give them what they want, a full scale war, we should treat these people like we treated the nazis and systematically wipe them out, then make sure they know for generations to come, don't feth with Europe.

I don't think it would work, I can't think of single historical precedent for terrorists being defeated by "full scale war". The best way to deal with terrorists is to undermine their support. Most people only look to extremists when they feel they are out of other options. If people feel they can make a nice life for themselves by running their farms and businesses, then violent fanatics are just a liability.

The Mongols in dealing with the Hashashin.
The US in dealing with the Comanche.

 Witzkatz wrote:

 kronk wrote:
They wear no uniforms, they blend in with the populace, they don't typically gather in large groups.

How do you find them? How do you root them out?

Kill every male between the ages of 15 and 35?

There was a 15-year old girl in Germany who stabbed a LEO just a few weeks ago; she admitted she wanted to do a small-scale terror attack and that she was in contact with radical Islamists. So...I guess those guys advocating full-scale military operations will have to napalm-bomb girl's middle schools, too?

I don't think we're scared of the 15 year old girl with a knife. That ranks up there with the crazy homeless guy attacking people on a subway.

I'm worried about the dickholes wearing vest bombs into crowded airports.

 kronk wrote:

 Witzkatz wrote:

 kronk wrote:
They wear no uniforms, they blend in with the populace, they don't typically gather in large groups.

How do you find them? How do you root them out?

Kill every male between the ages of 15 and 35?

There was a 15-year old girl in Germany who stabbed a LEO just a few weeks ago; she admitted she wanted to do a small-scale terror attack and that she was in contact with radical Islamists. So...I guess those guys advocating full-scale military operations will have to napalm-bomb girl's middle schools, too?

I don't think we're scared of the 15 year old girl with a knife. That ranks up there with the crazy homeless guy attacking people on a subway.

I'm worried about the dickholes wearing vest bombs into crowded airports.

You've clearly never had to take a whole van full of 15 year old girls to a cosplay/comic convention. The things I've seen. THE THINGS I'VE SEEN!

Here we go again.

"Hey guys, let's gak on an entire region, ethnicity and religion, exploit it, bomb it, topple democratic regimes and fund dictators and terrorists for our own economic gain... oh wait they're trying to strike back in the meager way that they can? KILL THEM ALL, THOSE MURDEROUS INHUMAN BASTARDS!"

 Frazzled wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 Witzkatz wrote:

 kronk wrote:
They wear no uniforms, they blend in with the populace, they don't typically gather in large groups.

How do you find them? How do you root them out?

Kill every male between the ages of 15 and 35?

There was a 15-year old girl in Germany who stabbed a LEO just a few weeks ago; she admitted she wanted to do a small-scale terror attack and that she was in contact with radical Islamists. So...I guess those guys advocating full-scale military operations will have to napalm-bomb girl's middle schools, too?

I don't think we're scared of the 15 year old girl with a knife. That ranks up there with the crazy homeless guy attacking people on a subway.

I'm worried about the dickholes wearing vest bombs into crowded airports.

You've clearly never had to take a whole van full of 15 year old girls to a cosplay/comic convention. The things I've seen. THE THINGS I'VE SEEN!

Well, obviously a gaggle of giggling 15 year olds is something to fear. I mean, mob mentality and all!

 Iron_Captain wrote:

Nastier than Hitler? *sigh* Why do people have such short memories?

Simply because it was a long time ago, and with cutbacks in education due to recession the Holocaust isn't a big item in history lessons anymore. Besides, it was perfectly good though misguided white people wiping out subhumans.

Nah, seriously - the EU countries being hit have a large islamic community where a few young men are easily influenced by the radical recruiters. We'd have to go Hitler on them to be 100% sure, and that means rounding them all up and putting them in camps. Who is next?

 Sarouan wrote:
Fight violence with more violence and stigmatizing innocent people because some cowards with the same skin color/religion did that will never be a solution.

Actually they need to be pretty courageous to be willing to sacrifice themselves for a cause they think is great.



Maybe working on the perception of that cause would be a thing we could do?

Spetulhu wrote:
One strange thing with these terrorists is how so many of them are said to have been not very religious at all. Like the guy suspected of planning much of the Paris attacks, Salah Abdeslam - keeping a bar, smoking pot, playing console games and frequenting gay bars.Or quite a few of those who join ISIS and spout one-line slogans they barely understand. What is it that makes a youngster brought up in a western country suddenly decide to dedicate himself to not only a religion he's had little interest in but the most brutal aspects of it?

It would be easy to chalk it up to, "they just don't fit in." But that's not accurate. Non-Muslim kids who don't fit in sometimes shoot up schools, but very rarely align themselves with terror organizations.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Here we go again.

"Hey guys, let's gak on an entire region, ethnicity and religion, exploit it, bomb it, topple democratic regimes and fund dictators and terrorists for our own economic gain... oh wait they're trying to strike back in the meager way that they can? KILL THEM ALL, THOSE MURDEROUS INHUMAN BASTARDS!"

Indeed, here we go again - with another justification of terrorism. This place never ceases to amaze me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Witzkatz wrote:


There was a 15-year old girl in Germany who stabbed a LEO just a few weeks ago; she admitted she wanted to do a small-scale terror attack and that she was in contact with radical Islamists. So...I guess those guys advocating full-scale military operations will have to napalm-bomb girl's middle schools, too?

I think the point is less than she was a 15 year old girl, and more the fact that she was a Muslim.

The scientific approach would be to study Islamic communities to determine the extent to which these ideals we call radical are held. But, apparently doing so, or even acknowledging that this would be fruitful, is "racist." (lol)

 Frazzled wrote:
The US in dealing with the Comanche.

Give them weapons and encourage them to attack Mexican settlements?