Land Raiders

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**Lord Corellia**

I have just acquired my 4th Land Raider. None of the 4 of them have been bought from GW at full retail, so I'm not suffering too much buyer's remorse, but I'm to the understanding that they are generally terrible. I have 2 standard Raiders (1 with multi-melta) as well as a Crusader and an incomplete one.

For this incomplete Landraider, I have the flamestorm cannons from the Crusader/ Redeemer kit and I can kitbash a twin-linked asscannon from a Baal Predator turret. Is this a good idea or is the Redeemer another useless variant? I'm inquiring because for it to really be proper I'll need to find bits for or convert the frag assault launchers for the front of it. If the variant is no good then I might as well just use it as a normal LR.

**niv-mizzet**

I like the redeemer. It's enough transport space for a full squad and characters, it shaves 10 points off the currently ludicrous overcostedness of the base model, and should it ACTUALLY live after accomplishing its difficult job of crossing the table without getting haywired or D'd right out, a pair of flamestorms and an assault cannon can actually be quite threatening on the otherwise empty box.

Still bad, but better than the other variants IMO.

**Wulfmar**

You'd be forgiven for believing that Landraiders had been discontinued based on the lack of them on the tabletop. I run one because I like the wheely-big box and I'm not trying to optimise everything.

As far as the redeemer is concerned - go for it! Flamers are fun (especially if you're Salamanders)

**Tibs Ironblood**

Wulfmar wrote:
You'd be forgiven for believing that Landraiders had been discontinued based on the lack of them on the tabletop. I run one because I like the wheely-big box and I'm not trying to optimise everything.

As far as the redeemer is concerned - go for it! Flamers are fun (especially if you're Salamanders)

Well the land raider itself gains no benefit from the Salamanders chapter tactics so sadly it does not get re rolls. :(

However if you mean as a theme then yeah I 100% agree. Let it burn! Let it burn! Their pain is not my concern!

**Jayden63**

I'm in the LRC camp. I love that tank. You can get a good sized squad of pretty much what ever you want, usually where you want to go. Its also not quite the fire magnet as a redeemer is because the hurricane bolters do not instill the level of fear that flame storm cannons do. Thus allowing the hurricane bolters and assault cannons actually more opportunity to do damage.

**GreenShoes**

I have a Redeemer, and while it's not the most cost effective thing going (especially when loaded with Thundernators) it's hella cool and fun to use. I've had the unpleasant experience of a WK D-sniping it and ruining the day, but such is the nature of WKs, so can't really complain.

I find that LRs and Leman Russes (other LRs hah) are actually more survivable than they get credit for. Sure there's stuff out there than can wreck their faces, but I find more often than not that a lot of average forces (i.e. not tournament fun-sponges) really do struggle with AV14. In a casual setting there is still plenty of room for AV14 to be big and scary. Tournaments -- which I participate in often enough -- are a different story, but in a FLGS where that's not the majority mindset or play style, big tanks can hold their own.

If I were to get another Raider, it'd be a Crusader so that I can fit an EVEN BIGGER unit of Thundernators inside, because with my Salamanders it's all about rule of cool.

I recommend building your 4th Raider as a Redeemer for variety's sake of nothing else. Those Flamestorm cannons can do serious work, too, so don't underestimate them.

Now let's see a list with all four of your beasts in it!

**ZergSmasher**

I think Land Raiders are underrated these days. That AV14 is no joke, and as long as the enemy doesn't have D-weapons or grav, the vehicle is pretty solid protection for an assault unit that otherwise would get shot up on its way to the target. I like to take one if I take Deathwing Knights. I've magnetized mine so I can just swap out the weapons (although I don't have the twin lascannons for the standard LR

). The problem with Land Raiders is that the top armies have either D-weapons (Eldar, Tau), Grav (Space Marines), whatever that thing is that glances on 6's always (Necrons), or massed Haywire (AdMech). I do enjoy the big tanks in casual games, though. Plus its the only way for Marines, Chaos Marines, or Daemonkin to assault right out of a metal bawks.

**Scott-S6**

Multiple land Raiders can be interesting as a novelty. Some players have gotten so used to not seeing vehicles that they no longer bring sufficient AT weapons and against a land raider they're going to suddenly discover that S6-7 is useless.

**ionusx**

i have an excelsior im not certain what the issue is people are having with land raiders then again i paid real money for the best non forgeworld raider money can buy

its a tough lil lady with 6++ and av14 that can buy EA. its got the guns to smash apart most opposition.

i think that marine players really need to sit down and try the excelsior more its not a bad vehicle just a bit expensive

i also have a crusader i used to like it a lot i still take it for random spins around the block

**SickSix**

It doesn't matter what LR I field they get blasted to bits by the end of turn 2.

I field them anyways because I like them. They are fluffy. Not my fault GW has broken the game.

**Martel732**

They are useless junk that gets stuck on a shubbery.

**casvalremdeikun**

I used to have a Redeemer, but then I changed it to a Crusader. The points ended up being the same, I just think Bolters fit Fists better. Now I have stopped using it altogether in favor of sending Pedro-Honor Guard-Librarian down in a Drop Pod. A lot cheaper in the end.

**Martel732**

If you read the fluff on the LR and then see how it performs in an actual game is a very good example of why I give zero feths about the fluff.

**Experiment 626**

Overall, I'd rate the 'best to worst' effectiveness of the various non-FW variant Land Raiders as;
1. Crusader

2. Redeemer

3. 'Standard'
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1,000,000,000. Chaos Land Raider

The only truly "useless" LR is the Chaos one, because it simply can't function as intended... No PotMS equivalent, (because "screw Chaos" is GW's no.1 goal apparently), means it is not only dyslexic in it's loadout, but it can't even use more than a single gun at any time, unless it stays stock still! (or else enjoys snap shooting a lot & all at the same target!)
The best upgrade it gets is a Dirge Caster, but to use it, you're also putting it into Melta range, and can get the same thing 200pts cheaper by just taking a Rhino instead! (which even gets more effective firepower, which is freaking hilarious!!

)

**Martel732**

Don't kid yourself. None of them are worth a gak.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Bring three raiders in a Spearhead and watch the opponent crap themselves trying to break them.

**jhe90**

If someone forgot to expect them. A land raider with its heavy av14 hull could be a real danger.

Plus full av14, nonweak link, no weak point fir cc like others.

**Ankhalagon**

I like the LRC so much, that I converted one to a Macrocarid Explorator. Its waiting for a field-test.

**Slayer-Fan123**

The Crusader is the only one that isn't utter junk. Flamestorm Cannons are awesome, but you have to be able to aim them, and it'll either be immobilized or the opponent isn't close enough, and the standard pattern has almost no firepower.
On the other hand, the Crusader has two sponson weapons that aren't a pain in the ass to fire, and they cover the weaknesses of Grav, and it has more transport capacity too.

Even then, it isn't good. I took the Spartan Challenge and never looked back, and that's mediocre at best (Haywire being a thing again and D-Weapons in every Eldar list I've faced.

**Martel732**

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Bring three raiders in a Spearhead and watch the opponent crap themselves trying to break them.

Or just ignore them. Eventually, their occupants will have to get out. Then kill the occupants. Or get a single grav hit lol.

**hobojebus**

Sadly the hull point change in 6th made them way too fragile for their price.

Don't get me wrong vehicles were too tough in 5th but it swung way to far the other way in 6th.

**ChazSexington**

Consider running all four at once - if you can, take ceramite plating. That much AV14 can be very difficult to deal with.

**IllumiNini**

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Bring three raiders in a Spearhead and watch the opponent crap themselves trying to break them.

I agree with this, but I feel taking something which is also scary side-by-side with the spearhead is needed so you can capitalise on them trying to focus on one of them. For example, run the LR Spearhead and a Linebreaker Squadron. That'll get your opponent pissing themselves while you're able to at least use one of them at full capabilities.

hobojebus wrote:Sadly the hull point change in 6th made them way too fragile for their price.

Don't get me wrong vehicles were too tough in 5th but it swung way to far the other way in 6th.

Yep, agreed. 6 HP may be a bit much, but I reckon they should have at least 5.

**casvalremdeikun**

For extra measure, put a Techmarine in the Spearhead Land Raiders.

**TheNewBlood**

Land Raiders are too costly for their points and durability to be competitively viable. That doesn't mean that they are useless or can't be fun.

With the amount of S6/7 out there, Land Raiders can be a strong anti-meta choice. If you can find something sufficiently scary to put inside (Terminators are not), they make a decent enough delivery system for a Turn 2 charge. After than, you can use all the standard tactics with Metal Boxes, albeit with a much larger Box. My personal favorite is parking it on an objective and daring someone to move it off.

**Drasius**

Spearhead with the Assault Centurions and Ironclad Formation is hilarious against opponents who aren't expecting either.

**HoundsofDemos**

With Maelstorm missions requiring you to be quick and all over the board, MSU is the name of the game these days. Having a big tank with a big uni in it doesn't matter when I'm racking up points with multi rhinos and scouts in speeders.

**jeffersonian000**

I use to run three Land Raiders at 1500pts, which usually meant that half of my army was killing most of my opponents, will the rest either rode around in an AV14 bunker or hopped out to scored objectives. Fun for me, frustrating for those not prepared. Of course, against a prepared opponent, it was a more challenging fight, so still fun for me, maybe a little less frustrating for them.

That was pre-hull points. Post hull points saw my Land Raiders collecting dust on the shelf. Might try the new Land Raider formation again, seeing as most people still struggle against AV14 even today.

SJ

**Martel732**

Not the elite codices.

**xlDuke**

I quite like Land Raiders and I don't even have an army that can use them. I play Orks so I don't have a decent way to deal with them from range and with good manoeuvring they can avoid my units that pose a threat in combat. From my experience they are a good way to guarantee your assault unit gets the charge off on your terms. Against ranged D, Haywire and lots of Graviton guns I can see why they would feel lacklustre though.