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No one should be able to have their physical form survive the warp without a patron god protecting them from it. Unless I'm wrong. If I'm not, I think it could be fixed by just saying the warp pulls him into different places and times randomly without him actually being left inside the warp as the current lore reads. Also, since that's what's happening to him, please take away any leadership bonuses that would imply advanced planning like allowing units to scout, and give him a datasheet instead of an entry in the Grey Knights book---He's not able to lead them anymore after being abducted into the warp. He should usable by any and every faction that's fighting against Chaos Daemons in accordance with the allies chart. That should be the rule to field him in the game. Also, he needs to be placed in reserves and deep strike to enter because he's showing up with the demons, not before them.

Am I the only one who thinks this?

More often than not, demons are already on the planet before the GK show up, so he simply pops in with the demons, then link up with the GK when they're here.

The rules are not designed to match the lore.

I actually like that idea, but it is plausible the rules represent what he does before getting sucked into the Warp. I mean, you can use Tycho still even though he's kinda dead.

Doesn't routine space travel require warp jumps?

 Ashiraya wrote:
The rules are not designed to match the lore.

Well obviously not entirely, but that's clearly one of the goals.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bobthehero wrote:
More often than not, demons are already on the planet before the GK show up, so he simply pops in with the demons, then link up with the GK when they're here.

True. That's one Kaldor Draigo. I'm talking about the other Kaldor Draigo. Two Draigos from two times. So maybe leave the current Draigo in the Grey Knights book with the clarification that he represents the Draigo up until that point.

Oh, you know what, that gives me an idea. Just for fun, we could add into the lore that Draigo and his fellow Grey Knights had reported fighting with doppelgangers of Kaldor Draigo before he got pulled into the warp. This represents the idea of the warp sometimes winding backwards in time instead of forwards. It could even allow the rule of fielding my suggested datasheet version of Draigo alongside the original Kaldor Draigo in the same game.

The Warp, as we understand it, is made up entirely of emotion. Emotion spurred on by thoughts and dreams, wants and desires, but emotion none the less. It's also manipulated by faith / force of will / various names for the same stuff.

In essence, if Draigo is absolutely sure of himself and the emperor, and does not harbor a single shred of doubt in his ability to prevail and the emperor protecting him.. He'd be totally and completely immune to warp corruption and the perditions of demons.

Spaceships have Gellar fields.
And Gellar fields failures can be pretty nasty.

 godardc wrote:
Spaceships have Gellar fields.
And Gellar fields failures can be pretty nasty.

or fun, if you're an ork.

Every faction can take Draigo. An army of daemons can field Draigo. That was the point of unbound, to give the freedom to do such things.

 morganfreeman wrote:
The Warp, as we understand it, is made up entirely of emotion. Emotion spurred on by thoughts and dreams, wants and desires, but emotion none the less. It's also manipulated by faith / force of will / various names for the same stuff.

In essence, if Draigo is absolutely sure of himself and the emperor, and does not harbor a single shred of doubt in his ability to prevail and the emperor protecting him.. He'd be totally and completely immune to warp corruption and the perditions of demons.

He's gotta sleep sometime. Or I guess all rational explanations as to how he can survive inside the warp indefinitely goes out the window because once you're in the warp, you don't have to explain gak.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JamesY wrote:
Every faction can take Draigo. An army of daemons can field Draigo. That was the point of unbound, to give the freedom to do such things.

Yeah, I had a personal debate with myself over whether I should make this thread in proposed rules or background, and in the end I decided that the rules I'm suggesting are pretty much in the game already. So I put it in background instead of proposed rules.

@Quarterdime good call. Personally I am not a fan of the character, his background, and never use him in games. I was tempted during that brief period before the new dex came out when it was possible to get him to a 1++ (I know rolling a 1 would still fail), but resisted the urge to cheese it.

Kaldor Draigo doesn't make sense to anyone.

What doesn't make sense?

Psykers are able to keep coherence within the Warp after they die. Devout belief in the God-Emperor can defend against Daemons. Combine the two and it is feasible that a Grey Knight could sustain himself within the Warp (within which time has little meaning and I doubt sleep or nutrition is necessary). An important part of Draigo is that he is essentially Sisyphus in 40K. He remains intact in the Warp but everything he does there is meaningless. Every Daemon he defeats and every obstacle he overcomes reforms. His existence within the Warp means nothing to the Ruinous Powers. Nothing he does there matters. Only his will and his faith keeps him going. For eternity, as it may as well be in the Warp.

I believe it is the work of Ward.

People go through the warp all the time, Terminators for example. Normal Space Marines and Grey knights wearing Terminator armour have that armour to protect them. Grey Knights wearing power armour have their psychic abilities. Draigo has more psychic ability than a hell of a lot of other psykers, easily a high Beta level psyker, and he has TDA and he is a phenominal warrior and fighter AND he's a Grey knight so he is able to resist the effects of the Warp AND there's a whole hell of a lot of reasons why there is nothing wrong with his original fluff except people don't like that he's more important and badass than their special character.

It makes total sense for the leader of the Grey Knights to be non existent.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Kaldor Draigo doesn't make sense to anyone.

Except to Matt "Skubmaster" Ward.

You're not looking at the bigger picture with regards to the character of Draigo.

He's not an over the top, manly man, who can kill daemons blindfolded and asleep.

He's a failure. Nothing he does matters at all. Not even the things he does last, they just reset. He is, quite literally, the most useless person in the entire setting, as every thing he does leaves no impact whatsoever.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
You're not looking at the bigger picture with regards to the character of Draigo.

He's not an over the top, manly man, who can kill daemons blindfolded and asleep.

He's a failure. Nothing he does matters at all. Not even the things he does last, they just reset. He is, quite literally, the most useless person in the entire setting, as every thing he does leaves no impact whatsoever.

There is one part about him that's useful in that he's basically immune to Daemonic assault, between his utmost power at fighting them and his bonded destiny to M'kar the Reborn. There are instances in the GK codex where other Daemons see Draigo as a black spot in their vision, unable to foresee or counter him at all, likely because of his ties to M'kar, and with M'kar having suffered True Death at the hands of Ventris and Calgar using the Shard of Erebus, last I and Lexicanum checked, that should mean Draigo is basically unkillable by Daemonic forces. Therefore, humanity's greatest warrior is practically untouchable.

 Deadshot wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
You're not looking at the bigger picture with regards to the character of Draigo.

He's not an over the top, manly man, who can kill daemons blindfolded and asleep.

He's a failure. Nothing he does matters at all. Not even the things he does last, they just reset. He is, quite literally, the most useless person in the entire setting, as every thing he does leaves no impact whatsoever.

There is one part about him that's useful in that he's basically immune to Daemonic assault, between his utmost power at fighting them and his bonded destiny to M'kar the Reborn. There are instances in the GK codex where other Daemons see Draigo as a black spot in their vision, unable to foresee or counter him at all, likely because of his ties to M'kar, and with M'kar having suffered True Death at the hands of Ventris and Calgar using the Shard of Erebus, last I and Lexicanum checked, that should mean Draigo is basically unkillable by Daemonic forces. Therefore, humanity's greatest warrior is practically untouchable.

But also incapable of causing any lasting damage. He may be unkillable, but won't exactly be a huge threat alone. His main strength is his ability to know and see what the daemons are up to, but is still unable to tell his brethren because he's stuck there.

Humanity's greatest hope, but is useless.

I understand your point, its hard to lead a chapter make crucial decision when you are the warp. as supreme grand master it is his duty to make the choices for the chapter. but I just love him, the idea, his concept.

Most people already explained why he should survive the wrap I agree

I guess there should be less demons in table top because a gak of load of them got banished, so as said before lore doesn't equal Game play

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
You're not looking at the bigger picture with regards to the character of Draigo.

He's not an over the top, manly man, who can kill daemons blindfolded and asleep.

He's a failure. Nothing he does matters at all. Not even the things he does last, they just reset. He is, quite literally, the most useless person in the entire setting, as every thing he does leaves no impact whatsoever.

There is one part about him that's useful in that he's basically immune to Daemonic assault, between his utmost power at fighting them and his bonded destiny to M'kar the Reborn. There are instances in the GK codex where other Daemons see Draigo as a black spot in their vision, unable to foresee or counter him at all, likely because of his ties to M'kar, and with M'kar having suffered True Death at the hands of Ventris and Calgar using the Shard of Erebus, last I and Lexicanum checked, that should mean Draigo is basically unkillable by Daemonic forces. Therefore, humanity's greatest warrior is practically untouchable.

But also incapable of causing any lasting damage. He may be unkillable, but won't exactly be a huge threat alone. His main strength is his ability to know and see what the daemons are up to, but is still unable to tell his brethren because he's stuck there.

Humanity's greatest hope, but is useless.

A curse laid upon him, and in all medieval tropes, including medieval space fantasy tropes, curses can broken. So eventually he will find a way to break the curse, maybe now that M'kar is gone. After all, M'kar was destroyed shortly after he imprisoned Draigo, the same year even, so maybe the curse will be broken now or soon. Or he has to find M'kars mortal form and burn it.

Draigo (like all the Gray Knights) does have a god patron, Malal.

 G00fySmiley wrote:
Draigo (like all the Gray Knights) does have a god patron, Malal.

That's not how you spell Star Child.

 raverrn wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
Draigo (like all the Gray Knights) does have a god patron, Malal.

That's not how you spell Star Child.

I feel like that is all related though, The emperor in rejecting and faith and encouraging the suppressing of knowledge of the chaos gods was in fact strengthening Malal the chaos god of anarchy, chaos and disbelief. In tis way it is giving the power in the warp for the continuation of the cause and the energy needed to create the star child.

arthorn wrote:
I guess there should be less demons in table top because a gak of load of them got banished, so as said before lore doesn't equal Game play

Time doesn't work in the Warp as it does in the Materium so defeating Daemons within the Warp might mean nothing in relation to the Materium. If a Daemon is "killed" by Draigo within the Warp it may recoalesce in time for a Warp incursion that would seem a second later.

The only times he affects the Materium are when he gets spat out along with the Daemons. And at those points the world is probably cleansed of life one way or another anyway.

Besides that, he's just one guy. He can't be at every Warp incursion at the same time (though in theory he could be at one side of galaxy one minute and then dragged to an incursion on the other side of the galaxy the next).

Deadshot wrote:A curse laid upon him, and in all medieval tropes, including medieval space fantasy tropes, curses can broken. So eventually he will find a way to break the curse, maybe now that M'kar is gone. After all, M'kar was destroyed shortly after he imprisoned Draigo, the same year even, so maybe the curse will be broken now or soon. Or he has to find M'kars mortal form and burn it.

I imagine Tzeentch (or any of the Ruinous Powers if they really put their will to it) would be capable of breaking the curse. Possibly exceptionally powerful Psykers\rituals as well. I imagine he'll stay cursed though unless something very serious occurs (along the lines of the Cadian Gate being breached or even Sol itself being threatened).

 G00fySmiley wrote:
Draigo (like all the Gray Knights) does have a god patron, Malal.

The Emperor protects!
As it happens, this sayin is actually true - everything involving the Emperor is somehow anathema to the Warp, as demonstrated by Euphrati Keeler banishing a Daemon with nothing but faith and a symbol of the Emperor, and Kaldor Draigo surviving being inside of the Warp without a gellar field.

 Lord_Inquisitor_Doge wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
Draigo (like all the Gray Knights) does have a god patron, Malal.

The Emperor protects!
As it happens, this sayin is actually true - everything involving the Emperor is somehow anathema to the Warp, as demonstrated by Euphrati Keeler banishing a Daemon with nothing but faith and a symbol of the Emperor, and Kaldor Draigo surviving being inside of the Warp without a gellar field.

Ahh the emperor, Malal's greatest servant. In a sense he is the equivilant of a Greater Demon to Malal in that Malal fights other chaos gods.. the big E does too