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Made in es
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xttz wrote:IMO just measure all distances with the same value in cm instead of inches. Would be close enough and saves any calculating mid-game.

Binabik15 wrote:Maxime Pastourel had a blog article recently about playing the Imperial Knight: Renegade game with AT knights, doing the inches = cm swap as well. Seemed to work fine, so the same should go for Apocalypse.

I might check that out. Gut feeling says that maybe regular ranges might make it look more believable.

Binabik15 wrote:Just...getting good Epic infantry and recent ranks is impossible unless you're one of those "I know a guy" types woth their fancy 3d printed stuff :( I'd literally buy hundreds and thousands of tiny doods! (And with 8mm Apocalypse rules more widely available than old Epic stuff I might get some of those 3rd party Not-Death Korps dudes and actually try my hand at it)

I don't know about that... Troublemaker games' late stuff is outstanding, for example, well worth the (low) price. I've also found that all that talk about Epic being 6mm and AT 8mm is... kind of hogwash, really. They look perfectly ok together:

Spoiler:




   
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Rampaging Carnifex






changemod wrote:
Labelling it as a Heresy game is entirely an excuse to only release one faction for now and pretend it’s two because you have two insignia choices, yes.


Yes, FW staff time-travelled to 1988 to ensure the game they remade had lower production costs in 2018
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




 xttz wrote:
changemod wrote:
Labelling it as a Heresy game is entirely an excuse to only release one faction for now and pretend it’s two because you have two insignia choices, yes.


Yes, FW staff time-travelled to 1988 to ensure the game they remade had lower production costs in 2018


And I assume you’re completely unaware that designers at that time have gone on record that the original heresy-lore game was an excuse to do imperial vs imperial fights and make less models for the first release?
   
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AT is not 8mm. This misconception stems from a statement that “space marines would be 8mm tall in AT”, what people forget is that space marines are 8’ tall compared to average 40k human height of 6’, which would translate to 6mm in AT. So really it’s a 6mm scale game.

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Southeastern PA, USA

Deathwatch101 wrote:
 schoon wrote:

Also of interest - they mentioned that one of the new books would start seeing a more evident Chaos influence on Titans.

...and they opened the door to an eventual Xenos expansion, at least not in the seminars i have seen/been in, saying it would be in a slightly different period, though it's still far off.


I don't think they ever said that they were ruling out Xenos, more that they weren't focusing on it at the moment as there was a lot of stuff from the Heresy to cover first.
Once the Heresy era titans were all gone, it stands to reason that they would look at other revenue streams for AT, and Xenos is the obvious choice.


Yep. It's AT becoming Epic that they've consistently shot down. Xenos titans for AT will probably happen, but it has to be at least two (?) years away, and probably more. They have more Titan classes to release and then fallen versions too.

Jack Flask wrote:
I'm curious though if they'll eventually start putting out models/rules for Chaos specific titan/knight patterns as they move AT forwards through the Heresy and after?

I'd love to see the old Slaanesh super heavies come back along with Chaos refit weapon options for existing chassis.


The old battle of Kado fluff specifically mentions Hell Knights. That book is probably the place where we start seeing that stuff.

changemod wrote:
Labelling it as a Heresy game is entirely an excuse to only release one faction for now and pretend it’s two because you have two insignia choices, yes.


Fortunately, there's *plenty* of depth to the game with the existing Titan classes, various Knights, stratagems, Legio rules, new Titans and Legios to come. Chaos will come and xenos may too, but the game doesn't need to spam factions and units like 40K does to keep the gameplay interesting.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/12 16:00:29


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 Nostromodamus wrote:
AT is not 8mm. This misconception stems from a statement that “space marines would be 8mm tall in AT”, what people forget is that space marines are 8’ tall compared to average 40k human height of 6’, which would translate to 6mm in AT. So really it’s a 6mm scale game.


By that logic it’s not 6mm either, given that marines are 7 foot tall on average.
   
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It's "good enough", really
   
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I am confident that the 8mm Marine I sculpted is in line with the 40k Marine I put next to my 40k Knight. At that size the difference between a 7mm and 8mm Marine comparing to a 6mm human is so marginal that it truly is close enough and terrain marketed as 6mm scale should be fine.

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Moustache-twirling Princeps




We'll find out soon enough eh.

The fact is, despite the "8mm Marine" thing being correct, they're also on record as saying they have no intention of being more accurate than "1/4 the size of however big the 40K model is".

If you're intent on collecting things in a consistent scale, you're going to have to pick a scale - a proper one, not "Xmm" - and figure things out from there.

Based on the actual Titan models and the 8mm Marine number, I chose eventually to go with 1:265. If scale doesn't bother you that much, you should be fine using old Epic models until GW choose to do new Epic models, both will be "wrong", but both will look fine to anyone who doesn't care if they're "correct".

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 Albertorius wrote:
Well, regarding "Epic", I wonder how would Apocalypse work with Epic and AT minis? Maybe halving ranges and the like would work well enough... maybe even leaving them as-is would make them look more believable.

I have the Epic/AT minis and terrain, so I wonder if it would be too hard to get some players to test it.


That is a REALLY interesting idea!

I really do hope someone digs into that a bit more and lets us know if it would work!

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 Nostromodamus wrote:
AT is not 8mm. This misconception stems from a statement that “space marines would be 8mm tall in AT”, what people forget is that space marines are 8’ tall compared to average 40k human height of 6’, which would translate to 6mm in AT. So really it’s a 6mm scale game.


I've not done the measurements myself(sadly I no longer have the older epic stuff to compare with), but it is being sold as "8mm" by Wayland. Also, Warcradle have released scenery for the game( clearly designed for AT ) also using "8mm" in their descriptions on their site...

Not saying you're wrong, but merely that thats what they are going with. Unless of course, GW has said outright "Nope. Its 6mm.", but I've not read anything official to that effect, yet. I would ask them over email, but I've probably pestered them enough in recent times...

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Incidentally, is there any reason to buy two rules-sets if the wife and I are both going to be playing? I imagine a 2nd set of dice and consoles isn't a bad idea, but getting stuck with the extra, pricey, hardcover kind of feels inefficient.

Basically just trying to figure out if it is better to buy that, or the individual weapon/console packs? I suppose I could just photocopy the one set and laminate them...?

Ended up ordering the rules box and two of those Axiom Maniple bundles since we don't need/want the terrain.

I figured tomorrow i'll start ordering Knights slowly, over time, until we have a pool of a couple boxes of each to share?

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 Alpharius wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
Well, regarding "Epic", I wonder how would Apocalypse work with Epic and AT minis? Maybe halving ranges and the like would work well enough... maybe even leaving them as-is would make them look more believable.

I have the Epic/AT minis and terrain, so I wonder if it would be too hard to get some players to test it.


That is a REALLY interesting idea!

I really do hope someone digs into that a bit more and lets us know if it would work!
I really like this idea. One of the biggest problems I've had with Apocalypse over the years is how cramped it ends up being and that largely because most people can't scale up their table space... but playing it at a smaller scale you're able to have more tactical play and not just the standing around or charging straight forward.

It might be difficult for some, but it shouldn't be... rather than cutting ranges in half it might be simpler to just use all the same charts and whole numbers but when playing measure in centimeters. Crude, but simple.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/12 19:34:32


 
   
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Moustache-twirling Princeps




We'll find out soon enough eh.

SamusDrake wrote:
 Nostromodamus wrote:
AT is not 8mm. This misconception stems from a statement that “space marines would be 8mm tall in AT”, what people forget is that space marines are 8’ tall compared to average 40k human height of 6’, which would translate to 6mm in AT. So really it’s a 6mm scale game.


I've not done the measurements myself(sadly I no longer have the older epic stuff to compare with), but it is being sold as "8mm" by Wayland. Also, Warcradle have released scenery for the game( clearly designed for AT ) also using "8mm" in their descriptions on their site...

Not saying you're wrong, but merely that thats what they are going with. Unless of course, GW has said outright "Nope. Its 6mm.", but I've not read anything official to that effect, yet. I would ask them over email, but I've probably pestered them enough in recent times...


From the horse's mouth:



"It's 8mm scale" stems from a single intro blurb on a WC article back around release time. The reality is, as per the image, it doesn't actually have a scale, because they've decided to just go forward with "1/4 40K size", and most of the 40K stuff isn't consistent. Personally I strongly disagree with his remark about height being a bad way to determine the scale because the proportions are distorted - it's the only way to derive a scale when the proportions are distorted, because it's the only dimension that could bear any relation to "reality". Having done the measurements, the Titans appear to be about 1:260-1:270, and that's consistent with an 8mm Marine, so 1:265 is what I'm going with when printing everything, so about 6.8mm for a human and just over 8mm for a Marine. Some of the older Epic stuff is already that size, at least for the humans, a lot of it isn't, same goes for third parties - in the end if you want it to be consistent the choice is between picking & choosing from what's available, or 3D printing everything on the Epic side of things.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/12 20:08:56


I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
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I really want to play Chaos but if there's hope for bespoke spiky titan kits in the future, maybe I should build a loyalist Legio from my initial purchase and get proper spiky titans later...?

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Glad to see Will Hayes agreeing with Will Hayes!

So the official scale of AT is actually 7mm, while old epic is 5.6mm. At best, tabletop game scales are merely a guideline for compatibility. Gotcha.

Right, now that we've sorted that out, lets back to the issue of Matt Hooper's bite radius issue...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
I really want to play Chaos but if there's hope for bespoke spiky titan kits in the future, maybe I should build a loyalist Legio from my initial purchase and get proper spiky titans later...?


The titan kits( well, at least the Reaver and Hounds ) come with traitor and loyalist options. If you must have "hard core" chaos titans then just do some conversion work - cocktail sticks and the like!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/12 21:28:02


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United Kingdom

Pre-orders up on the NZ site. Acastus weapons seem under-pointed:

Spoiler:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Loyalist Titans of Legend are:
– Ignis Ferrus
– Bellator Magno
– Dawn of Enlightenment
– Lucius Pretorian
– Iracundos

While the Traitors are:
– Hammer of Tyrants
– Penumbral Reaper
– Vestiti Ferrus
– Mantellum Fulmen
– Iben Faruk

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/12 22:13:52


 
   
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Moustache-twirling Princeps




We'll find out soon enough eh.

SamusDrake wrote:
Glad to see Will Hayes agreeing with Will Hayes!

So the official scale of AT is actually 7mm, while old epic is 5.6mm. At best, tabletop game scales are merely a guideline for compatibility. Gotcha.

Right, now that we've sorted that out, lets back to the issue of Matt Hooper's bite radius issue...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
I really want to play Chaos but if there's hope for bespoke spiky titan kits in the future, maybe I should build a loyalist Legio from my initial purchase and get proper spiky titans later...?


The titan kits( well, at least the Reaver and Hounds ) come with traitor and loyalist options. If you must have "hard core" chaos titans then just do some conversion work - cocktail sticks and the like!


Hah! I chopped out several posts of me waffling on about being a scale-stickler between the two replies

On the "properly" Chaotic engines, I'm expecting something like the FW Chaos Knight kit at first, just new armour panels with a slightly warped/spiky appearance(whether they end up as plastic or resin, who knows). The really proper stuff like god-specific daemon-possessed stuff will probably take a whole longer, surely.

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
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That can't be right. Considering an Acastus can give a Warhound a hard time, he costs only half the points. For the same price of a Warhound( two Acastus ) we can literally go Reaver-hunting...

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Mysterious Techpriest




United Kingdom

SamusDrake wrote:
That can't be right. Considering an Acastus can give a Warhound a hard time, he costs only half the points. For the same price of a Warhound( two Acastus ) we can literally go Reaver-hunting...

Yeah, they do seem to be badly under-pointed (and there's no reason to take a 'normal' Porphyrion over an Asterius).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/12 23:16:03


 
   
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Chaplain with Hate to Spare






SamusDrake wrote:
That can't be right. Considering an Acastus can give a Warhound a hard time, he costs only half the points. For the same price of a Warhound( two Acastus ) we can literally go Reaver-hunting...

Isn't this written by FW's rule team? So it sounds perfectly right.

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Croatia/Zagreb

So, some genius thought that 16 potential hits with str 9 at 48" for 200 is a good idea? Warhound with twin megabolters is 200 points, and it spits 12 shots at range 20". Acastus seems to be quite a bit underpointed
   
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London

Preorders are up down under. Here's the card for Acastus knights.



I came up with a list that I think might work. Comes in at 1740.

Lance 1

4 Acastus Porphyrons 370

2 Acastus Porphyrons 190

2 Acastus Porphyrons 190

Lance 2

2 Acastus Porphyrons 190

Acastus Porphyron 100

Acastus Porphyron 100

Lance 3

Acastus Porphyron 100

Acastus Porphyron 100

Acastus Porphyron 100

Lance 4

Acastus Porphyron 100

Acastus Porphyron 100

Acastus Porphyron 100

I guess there could be an argument for mixing in some Asterions, but why bother really? You'll generally just table people in turn one anyway. Probably go House Donar for the stratagem to make your lance of 4 have -2 strength on all attacks against it in turn 1, so that you don't have to worry about the enemy shooting back and stuff.

What a joke.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/13 00:27:08


 
   
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Dakka Veteran




They're overstated, Rule Writer boost the weapon's stat through the roof without comparing them to their 40k/30k counterpart.

I can see some favoritism here.

Castigator knight on the other hand, ugh..

And Questoris Stormspear Rocket Pod is overpriced lol.
   
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Mandragola, I saw your list and...I gotta have more Porphyrion.

I just don’t understand how that’s 100 points in this game.

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Yeah, also, why are the two weapon options the same price? One is a straight upgrade over the other (Same range, same dice, better strength, sometimes bigger blast vs sometimes +1 to hit?) even ignoring that the secondary weapon is better too.
Someone screwed up and released beta rules here.

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LA

Well the original rules writer for this game left the company. Whoever they hired to take up the reins probably has less a clear understanding of the game. That is what worries me going forward, and not just for this game but any kind of update to blood bowl or specialist games in general. I'm also not convinced the specialist games branch has the resources to do extensive playtesting at the same level as the main GW studio.

 
   
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This isn't something that require deep knowledge of the game, most gun's attack stat follow their 40k/30k profile, while the range stat is their 30k/40k counterpart divided by 3. Except for the Gatling weapons, which is a mess.

Ionstorm rocket pod is not a rapid firing weapon nor does it fire out 6 shot while the model itself only have 5 ready warheads

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/13 06:38:24


 
   
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Would anyone agree that a single Acastus should be closer to 150 pts?

Not jumping to a conclusion, but I'm now wondering if they should have bothered with Knights for the first year and maybe, instead, introduced a smaller support-focused titan. Personally I like the Knights and argued the case for them a while back, but for the interests of Titanicus itself a forth titan would have not only made the game more affordable for getting started, but also opened up far more options for maniples. Up until this point, we've had two Knight types(both are just as good for suicidal melee attacks) without available options and out-of-stock terminals, and an initially redundant expansion. And now we have Knight players rubbing their hands with glee thanks to the miracle of Acastus-spam!

Ah dear. Well, I'm just glad I have two games to use the minis with, because as a strict Titanicus player I would be going up the wall.

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The Acastus command terminals and dices are available from third parties, with typical discounts (which is great!).
   
 
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