Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2016/04/28 01:01:35
Subject: Volunteer deputy who mistook his pistol for his taser found guilty
Tulsa, Oklahoma (CNN)A jury found a sheriff's deputy guilty of second-degree manslaughter Wednesday in the fatal shooting of an unarmed suspect.
Robert Bates, who was a volunteer reserve sheriff deputy for the Tulsa County Sheriff's Office last year at the time of the shooting, never denied killing Eric Courtney Harris.
Bates, 74, said he meant to use his Taser stun gun, not his revolver, on the suspect, who had been tackled by other deputies and was being held on the ground.
The jury deliberated less than three hours and recommended Bates serve four years in prison, the maximum possible sentence. Preliminary sentencing is set for May 31. After the verdict, Bates was escorted out of the courtroom by two deputies from the department he once served.
In his closing argument to the jury, defense lawyer Clark Brewster said Bates should be be thanked for trying to help his fellow deputies. He displayed the stun gun and Bates' pistol and showed how they were similar size and weight.
"He got out of his vehicle to man up and help," Brewster said. "I truly believe you will find this was an accident driven to this point by the actions of Mr. Harris."
Robert Bates
Robert Bates
Video of the deadly shooting released
Prosecutor John David Luton told the jury Bates was nodding off in his car before the arrest. He said it was wrong to blame Harris for the shooting.
"Bob Bates didn't act with usual and ordinary care," Luton said in his closing argument. "He also didn't do what a reasonable person would do under similar circumstances. ... Eric Harris deserved to be chased, he deserved to be tackled, he deserved to be arrested. He did not deserve to be killed by reserve deputy Bob Bates."
Bates was CEO of insurance company
The all white jury, consisting of six women and eight men, had to decide if the shooting was, in the words of court charging documents, "an act of culpable negligence." Those documents said Bates believed he had his Taser in his hand when he shot.
Bates didn't testify in his own defense and only made one comment on the record in court. When the judge asked if he was satisfied with his defense, Bates replied, "I'm absolutely tickled to death."
Eric Courtney Harris.
Eric Courtney Harris.
The death of Harris is one of several nationally known cases in which the killing of an unarmed black man by law enforcement has galvanized people over tactics that police are trained to use.
Bates' lawyer releases training documents
At the time of the shooting, Bates was 73 and the CEO of an insurance company. He had worked for the Tulsa Police Department for a year in the 1960s and had been a reserve deputy since 2008.
On April 2, 2015, he was providing backup and parked several blocks away from an undercover officer conducting a sting operation to try to catch Harris illegally selling a gun.
As deputies rolled up to arrest Harris that day, the suspect bolted and was pursued by officers, who caught him and took him to the ground. Bates got out of his vehicle and fired his pistol into Harris' back.
Bates experienced heavy stress, psychiatrist says
'Oh! I shot him! I'm sorry!" Bates said, as captured in a video of the shooting.
Authorities said Bates thought he pulled out his Taser but "inadvertently" fired his gun.
The first defense witness was Dr. Charles Morgan, a forensic psychiatrist, who was shown video of the incident. He testified that Bates may have pulled his gun during the arrest because people tend to resort to their habits, not training, during times of "uncontrollable stress."
2015: Robert Bates speaks about shooting
2015: Robert Bates speaks about shooting 01:17
Prosecutor Kevin Gray questioned Morgan about how he knew it was Bates' habit to use his pistol. After being prodded by the judge, Morgan answered that he didn't look at any of Bates' training records to come to his conclusion.
Bates' training was an issue throughout the investigation and trial.
Deputy Ricardo Vaca testified that if Bates actually had used a stun gun instead of a pistol at the moment the shot was fired, it would not have been consistent with their training.
"You are supposed to wait until you have a clear opening and then deploy," he said.
Vaca was the first deputy to tackle Harris and was on top of him when the shooting happened.
'I almost got killed,' deputy says
"I almost got killed," Vaca said, his voice cracking. "It makes me emotional. Inches to my right and I would have been killed,"
Vaca and another deputy testified they observed Bates in his patrol vehicle nodding off a few minutes before the takedown order was given.
Deputy Michael Heisten said Bates gave a statement to investigators and claimed to have been in situations like this before. He meant to use nonlethal force as he had in the past, the statement said, according to Heisten.
"Based on his record how often had Bates been in a situation involving a fleeing felon?" Gray asked.
"Never." Heisten replied.
Shooting puts spotlight on reserve officer programs
The defense contended that mistaking the stun gun for the pistol was an honest mistake. On video, Bates could be heard saying he was going to deploy his stun gun. Deputy Leighton Boyd testified he heard Bates say that and moved back to avoid being hit by a stun gun prong.
The judge allowed Brewster, the defense lawyer, to give the jury an opportunity to hold Bates' gun and a stun gun similar to the one Bates carried that day. Brewster took the revolver himself and activated the barrel laser on the courtroom wall. The stun gun also projects a red dot, he said.
Heisten, a detective with the sheriff's office, said the weapons are different. A switch must be flipped before making the stun gun operational. There is no corresponding switch on the revolver, Heisten said.
'I thank God for the conviction'
After court convened, a tearful Andre Harris, brother of Eric Harris, he was relieved the jury convicted Bates.
"I thank God for the conviction," Andre Harris said. "I hope he's [Bates] taught a lesson that all lives matter."
Bates should never have been working as a deputy, he said.
"For a 73-year-old to be out on a drug task force, supposedly chasing deadly criminals, is not his line of work," Harris said. "Seventy-three is the age where you retire with your grandkids and enjoy life."
Andre Harris also said "pay for play" helped Bates obtain his position as a reserve deputy. The Harris family lawyer has said Bates donated equipment to the sheriff's department, an allegation the sheriff's department has denied.
An internal inquiry by the Tulsa County Sheriff's Office in 2009 concluded that Bates was shown special treatment and that training policies were violated regarding his role with the agency.
Information about the internal investigation was not revealed to the jury.
I'm usually pretty cynical, but I am pleasantly surprised that two all-white juries were able to convict two police officers with black victims in my state.
2016/04/28 01:55:44
Subject: Re:Volunteer deputy who mistook his pistol for his taser found guilty
Ouze wrote: What a travesty of justice - how could our system have treated a Job Creator so shabbily?
Yeah he should have got commendation for shooting a lousy peasant right? IMHO i found the sentencing lenient and why is a 73 year old a deputy? couldn't they find someone younger? Is there no upper limit?
The excuse that he "mistook his pistol for a taser" has only two conclusions. First is that he's way too senile to be *near* either and the Sheriff's department also needs to be held responsible for allowing him to be both equipped and engaged in such a situation.
Second is that it's total bs and it's a desperate excuse to avoid taking responsibility for killing someone. You don't just mistake a taser for a pistol if you're of sound body and mind. They have a totally different look, feel, heft, balance, trigger, aim, operation, etc and (if following proper practices) are not carried or drawn from the same place as a sidearm (this is intentional). If he did actually do this, he should have had numerous tactile, visual, and body motion cues that he pulled the wrong item before he could ever bring it on to target, much less pull the trigger (which is another tactile data point that should have said "this doesn't feel right!").
Jury made the right call. Dude was either grossly negligent and irresponsible, or he intentionally pulled a firearm and killed someone and tried to squirm out of responsibility after the fact.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2016/04/28 02:17:05
Subject: Re:Volunteer deputy who mistook his pistol for his taser found guilty
Ouze wrote: What a travesty of justice - how could our system have treated a Job Creator so shabbily?
Yeah he should have got commendation for shooting a lousy peasant right? IMHO i found the sentencing lenient and why is a 73 year old a deputy? couldn't they find someone younger? Is there no upper limit?
An Oklahoma sheriff was indicted Wednesday by a grand jury called to investigate his office following the fatal shooting of an unarmed man by a volunteer deputy whose training had come into question.
Grand jurors indicted Tulsa Sheriff Staley Glanz on two misdemeanors counts, accusing the longtime sheriff of refusing to perform his official duties for not promptly releasing documents in an internal investigation related to the volunteer deputy, Robert Bates. Bates, one of Glanz's longtime friends, has said he mistook his handgun for a stun gun when he shot Eric Harris in April.
In addition to being a long-time friend, he also donated to his campaign fund for sheriff and held fundraisers, and most people agree that it was pretty much a "pay-to-play" type of situation.
The basic point is that if you are equipped with two weapons, a lethal one and a non-lethal one, you have a strong duty to be sure you use the right one for the situation in which you find yourself.
Yes, it's an accident that this guy shot the other guy with a bullet not a zap, but it was an accident he caused by inattention to detail. His gun didn't fall off his belt because the stitching burst and go of by hitting the floor through no fault of his.
That's why a manslaughter charge is appropriate rather than murder. He did pull the trigger and kill someone.
I know there's some sort of education for actual police officers, but sheriffs can pretty much use any non-felon citizen as a deputy, right? Old West tradition and all that?
Mr. Bates messed up because he wasn't properly trained and probably too excited to think clearly. He was put in a situation he wasn't suited for. The manslaughter charge sounds fair - he didn't intend to kill but committed a critical error. What's even better is the sheriff being investigated for allowing someone unfit to serve on the force.
2016/04/28 18:33:20
Subject: Re:Volunteer deputy who mistook his pistol for his taser found guilty
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2016/04/28 18:36:42
Subject: Volunteer deputy who mistook his pistol for his taser found guilty
So I can be a deputy too if I move to the US? Awesome!
Actually you have to be a US Citizen first
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2016/04/28 18:41:41
Subject: Volunteer deputy who mistook his pistol for his taser found guilty
So I can be a deputy too if I move to the US? Awesome!
Actually you have to be a US Citizen first
Don't worry, I will wear one of those Uncle Sam hats. Now gimme my gun.
Here.....have a water pistol.
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2016/04/28 19:35:25
Subject: Volunteer deputy who mistook his pistol for his taser found guilty
I wonder how big the guy must have been if the 73 year old felt the need to taser someone who was already being restrained by at least two others. From the article they were sitting on top of the suspect. This man just seemed to want an excuse to taser someone and ended up murdering somebody just to get that experience out of life.
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP)
2016/04/28 19:59:05
Subject: Volunteer deputy who mistook his pistol for his taser found guilty
LordofHats wrote: Be advised the water pistol dual functions as a beer, brandy, scotch, tequila, or vodka dispenser
Or, for the more psychotic party-goer, a hydrofluoric acid dispenser.
Do that and were halfway towards real life Batman!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/28 20:10:03
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP)
2016/04/28 20:19:07
Subject: Volunteer deputy who mistook his pistol for his taser found guilty
This was the case where someone who donated a lot of money/equipment got to 'pay to play policeman' for a night by being deputized. He was an Insurance broker CEO, not a former police officer.
He was rich and wanted the thrill of beating a perp. And he killed him.
My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RULE OF COOL: When converting models, there is only one rule: "The better your model looks, the less people will complain about it."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
MODELING FOR ADVANTAGE TEST: rigeld2: "Easy test - are you willing to play the model as a stock one? No? MFA."
2016/04/28 20:27:48
Subject: Volunteer deputy who mistook his pistol for his taser found guilty
This was the case where someone who donated a lot of money/equipment got to 'pay to play policeman' for a night by being deputized. He was an Insurance broker CEO, not a former police officer.
He was rich and wanted the thrill of beating a perp. And he killed him.
This is how American Police forces work?
2016/04/28 20:50:05
Subject: Volunteer deputy who mistook his pistol for his taser found guilty
Small towns often have volunteer or reserve forces for Police, Fire and EMT because they don't need large numbers of people on the payroll and can't afford full time people. In some parts of the country, Fire are 100% volunteer. The only way someone is putting a hose on your house is because someone with a full-time job wears a pager, leaves his job, gets in a truck and drives it to your house.
There would be times where it would make sense to deputize a reserve citizen for police work and some places can do that. Playing Cop and shooting a perp like you were big game hunting is not one of them.
My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RULE OF COOL: When converting models, there is only one rule: "The better your model looks, the less people will complain about it."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
MODELING FOR ADVANTAGE TEST: rigeld2: "Easy test - are you willing to play the model as a stock one? No? MFA."
2016/04/28 20:51:32
Subject: Volunteer deputy who mistook his pistol for his taser found guilty
Well, for Sheriff departments it happens. The Sheriff in the county I live in now is pretty bad at his job. Total favoritism to the "red bloods" of the county. If you make a complaint against them, he'll ignore you unless you threaten to call the State troopers (or as in one case, actually call them). He's horrible at his job beyond that. He gets reelected over and over again simply because he's been sheriff for so long he and his friends, which are many, threat his position as something that's necessary and not an electoral process.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/28 20:51:53
nkelsch wrote: This was the case where someone who donated a lot of money/equipment got to 'pay to play policeman' for a night by being deputized. He was an Insurance broker CEO, not a former police officer..
But as a CEO, it's reasonable to think he is hundreds of thousands of times better than the average person at stuff.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2016/04/28 23:59:02
Subject: Volunteer deputy who mistook his pistol for his taser found guilty
I think you guys have a similar program with folks called Metropolitan Special Constabulary.
As for this specific case:
Tulsa County is the second most populous county in Oklahoma. It covers almost the same amount of area as Greater London, although with a much smaller population. London has 31,000 police officers, together with 5,000 volunteers. And Tulsa County has 760 police officers in the City of Tulsa and 300 officers with the sheriff department, and 115 volunteers.
Even our "big" departments don't really have a lot of police officers, so they still rely on volunteers to step up and support the community. I know it's a stretch comparing the two, but London has ~240 people per officer compared to ~840 people per officer, and one officer per 0.04 square KM compared to 1.25 square KM. And I think the area is the bigger deal than the number of population served. One officer is responsible for the same amount of "territory" as 32 officers in London. So volunteers are used to supplement that force, but most of the time volunteers don't do the kind of stuff that Bates did. Reserve Deputies have all the same powers and duties as regular deputies, but their usual duties include going on traffic patrols, providing policing at public events, staff public stations for fingerprinting and other office service, honor guard, mounted police, etc. They also have the same training requirements as the full time deputies, but they don't get paid for attending months of training, pay for their own uniforms, and don't get paid for their actual police duty.
I did 5 years as a volunteer firefighter, we didn't get paid for our time doing training or working (I usually did 24 hours each week on duty at the station and then whatever other calls I responded to from home) and even though we were issued out basic gear most of us paid out of pocket to upgrade our stuff. Like deputies we did it to serve our community and 99% of volunteers are just regular folks wanting to make a difference.
Bates was a guy who was way to old to be a deputy who donated money to the sheriff and was his personal friend, who didn't complete the required training (and people were basically told to shut up when they discovered it) and who was able to use his friendship with the sheriff to participate in high risk operations that reserve deputies usually don't participate in.