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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/05 22:18:50
Subject: How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Fully-charged Electropriest
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Hey, the question mentioned in the subject is something that I've really struggled to figure out. I'm talking about 80+ plague zombies, multiple massive squads of Boyz, Renegade Unending Host etc... all of these are the kind of armies I face off against on a regular basis and I've yet to figure out a way to successfully play against them. How do I remove the most models off the table every turn? Spam Vengeance Weapon Batteries with cannons? Always field 3 squads of 3 Quad Mortars? Just give up on DA and play Sisters with nothing but flamers?
I don't think that there's anything that's actually effective against hordes in the DA Codex (RIP Dakka Banner  ) but feel free to prove me wrong. In case that's impossible any Imperial solution works really.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/05 22:23:05
Subject: How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Blast weapons are helpful. Ravenwing Dark Talons and Black Knights also pretty good with their stasis weapons. The rift cannon actually does more than ruffle the targets hair now lol.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/05 22:30:57
Subject: How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Fully-charged Electropriest
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Obviously blast weapons are helpful. What I really want to know is how can I get the most blast weapons for the least amount of points?
I don't really want to get into CC with an unit of 30 Boyz with my Black Knights. The Orks win by attrition every time and CC is the only way they can hurt my bikers. I'd much rather go punch something that can't hurt me back properly, if only I could get through the damned wall of 120+ Boyz, Renegades or Zombies!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/05 22:35:32
Subject: How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Black Knights shouldn't HAVE any trouble against Ork Boyz. Now, LatD Zombies are something else, but Boyz just die.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/05 22:39:47
Subject: How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
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Throw in a pair of whirlwinds if its basic low cost hordes you want to delete.
Or vindicators if its slightly tougher as they double up for killing most things.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/05 22:52:13
Subject: How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Fully-charged Electropriest
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Jackal wrote:Throw in a pair of whirlwinds if its basic low cost hordes you want to delete.
Or vindicators if its slightly tougher as they double up for killing most things.
Paying 65 points for 1 large blast/turn that kills maybe 3 zombies if I'm lucky with dice doesn't sound very appealing. 3 Vindicators in a squadron might be a good answer but having such a short range and being AV 11 for all intents and purposes is not a good combo either. My opponents rarely lack in AT either so even 1 penetrating hit on the squadron screws me up royally. The Dark Talon is not an option I'd even consider. 1 small blast maybe on turn 2 for 160 points? So what if it instakills 2 zombies or boyz? That's horribly ineffective nevertheless.
3 batteries of 3 Rapier Quad Mortars would be 540 points, giving me either 36 S5 AP5 small blasts or the same amount of S8 AP4 sundering shots. Is there anything that comes even close to this kind of effectiveness in killing hordes? I'd also rather not field a Typhon every single game I play, superheavies without a prior warning is frowned upon.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/05 23:02:44
Subject: How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
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The quad mortars are pretty damn good for points, but survivability is alot lower than most options.
I mentioned whirlwinds as you also said renegades and boyz, in which they shred them fairly quick.
Zombies are more of a pain to shift however.
The mortars are easily the strongest option for firepower however.
I'm also sure you would get frowned at alot more for those than a Typhon lol.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/05 23:03:28
Subject: How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Krazed Killa Kan
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Boy, you've got some bad luck killing 3 plague zombies with an ignores cover large blast. Guess it is only str 4, I think.
Ally to a thunderfire cannon, I suppose. Those are amazing at anti-horde.
Possibly deep strike behind their lines to distract the masses?
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"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." Words to live by. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/05 23:15:15
Subject: How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Fully-charged Electropriest
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Kap'n Krump wrote:Boy, you've got some bad luck killing 3 plague zombies with an ignores cover large blast. Guess it is only str 4, I think.
Ally to a thunderfire cannon, I suppose. Those are amazing at anti-horde.
Possibly deep strike behind their lines to distract the masses?
Plague zombies that are properly spread out that have a 4+ FNP are just not that easy to kill. In order to kill 3 you have to hit 9 of them with a single blast! None of my opponents make such mistakes as bunching up their dudes to present easy targets so saying that I'd kill 3 might be an exaggeration really. Thunderfire Cannons do have that anti-horde capability I'm looking for but in my case I'd have to field at least 3 of them and none of them would do anything to models with AV. The Quad Mortars pump out similar amount of horde-shredding firepower but they can even deal with AV 14 if needed.
Deep striking behind enemy lines is completely impossible when your enemy fills their whole deployment zone with models. Also, what would I even DS there? Assault Marines with a couple of flamers? Throwing away 100 point squads to roast maybe 20 points worth of zombies or boyz is a certain way of losing quickly.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jackal wrote:The quad mortars are pretty damn good for points, but survivability is alot lower than most options.
I mentioned whirlwinds as you also said renegades and boyz, in which they shred them fairly quick.
Zombies are more of a pain to shift however.
The mortars are easily the strongest option for firepower however.
I'm also sure you would get frowned at alot more for those than a Typhon lol.
I don't really care if someone doesn't like that I'd spam mortars, superheavies are just thought of in a different way. Just about every single opponent I play against spams one unit or other. One day it's 30 burna boyz in trukks backed up by at least as many lootas, other days it might be triple Baledrake with Wyverns and zombies. The fun just never ends. My meta requires me to remove large amounts of models off the table very quickly or I'll just simply be overrun.
Also, how is T7 3+ weaker than AV 11? Even 1 pen means I can't shoot.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/05/05 23:37:23
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/06 00:22:24
Subject: Re:How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Dakka Veteran
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Hammer of Caliban formation- 3 vindicators a techmarine and a land raider to tank for squadron.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/06 00:23:07
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/06 03:45:05
Subject: Re:How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
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You don't need to tailor your list as much as simply playing on tables with more terrain. How are these guys perfectly spacing out 80+ models so that a large blast can only hit 3 models? I used to regularly play an Ork list that had two 30-man mobs, and I routinely had to bunch up to get through a gap in two pieces of terrain. Actually entering terrain was a nightmare: even with a 6" move, by the time you got to the back row of a mob, you were inexplicably only moving an inch or two.
You know what also forces people to bunch up? Tank shocks. Start driving Rhinos into crowds of plaque zombies and then drop your large blasts and templates into the clumps.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/06 09:56:45
Subject: Re:How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Fully-charged Electropriest
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the_Armyman wrote:You don't need to tailor your list as much as simply playing on tables with more terrain. How are these guys perfectly spacing out 80+ models so that a large blast can only hit 3 models? I used to regularly play an Ork list that had two 30-man mobs, and I routinely had to bunch up to get through a gap in two pieces of terrain. Actually entering terrain was a nightmare: even with a 6" move, by the time you got to the back row of a mob, you were inexplicably only moving an inch or two.
You know what also forces people to bunch up? Tank shocks. Start driving Rhinos into crowds of plaque zombies and then drop your large blasts and templates into the clumps.
Please read again what I wrote. I said that I'd need to HIT 9 zombies with one Whirlwind blast to on average kill 3 of them. I never said that I could only hit a few of them with a large blast, the root of my problem seems to be that no amount of blasts seems to be enough. Herding zombies with Rhinos does sound like a nice trick and I'll definitely look into it. Might not work as well with a list focusing mostly on RW but some sort of mech Greenwing could maybe make it work.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/06 10:25:21
Subject: How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Battleship Captain
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There is something to be said for just multiple squads of bolter-wielding infantry. You don't need to kill a boyz squad in its entirety, just enough that you can beat them in combat.
Also, bikers should never have any issues with attrition - you can disengage with hit and run every other turn.
A ravenwing biker charging in gets hammer of wrath and a twin-linked rapid fire burst and the orks on the receiving end are only S3.
You could always go for company veterans with many combi-flamers, or a command squad with flamers.
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Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/06 11:35:02
Subject: How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Fully-charged Electropriest
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locarno24 wrote:There is something to be said for just multiple squads of bolter-wielding infantry. You don't need to kill a boyz squad in its entirety, just enough that you can beat them in combat. Also, bikers should never have any issues with attrition - you can disengage with hit and run every other turn. A ravenwing biker charging in gets hammer of wrath and a twin-linked rapid fire burst and the orks on the receiving end are only S3. You could always go for company veterans with many combi-flamers, or a command squad with flamers. If I play an elite army against a horde army I don't want to get into CC because the Orks always win by attrition. Power Klaws always kill several bikers before I can disengage from the fight, or should I say IF I can disengage? Where other people fail 2+ saves and immobilize their vehicles on turn 1, I lose my guys to Gets Hot and failing my Hit and Run tests. Black Knights can never earn their points back if I'm in close combat with Boyz. Edit: in a typical RW list, even if every single one of my models killed 6 Orks before dying I'd still get tabled.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/06 11:38:01
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/06 12:11:03
Subject: How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Junior Officer with Laspistol
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I take it DA can't have thunderfire cannons.
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Star Trek taught me so much. Like, how you should accept people, whether they be black, white, Klingon or even female...
FAQs |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/06 12:17:02
Subject: Re:How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Flashy Flashgitz
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Take a lions blade strike force and max the tacticals. Then you should overwatch at BS4. Nobody will be able to charge you 'cos they will just loose to many models. Plage zombies are slow and can't run so bolter fire should kill them easily. Plus your devs come standart with heavy bolters that decimade infantry realy well.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/06 16:04:11
Subject: How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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What are the stats on these zombies? Automatically Appended Next Post: Looks like zombies are T3 FNP 4+ so what you want is S6 to deny the FNP. Unfortunately there's not a lot of that in the DA codex.
Ok here's a crazy idea: Land Raider Redeemer with S6 flamers and twin-linked S6 Assault Cannon. Expensive, but also tough enough to drive right up on the horde.
Inside that, a squad of Deathwing Knights swinging S6 maces. It might take a while, but that might be the best way to spend 475 points to take on that horde or anything else they can get their hands on.
Or 420 points gets you six Landspeeders with heavy bolters and Assault Cannons. If the horde isn't in cover, that's an average of 17 dead zombies each turn. These units move 12" and should easily be able to stay 24" away.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/06 16:25:00
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/06 20:53:06
Subject: How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Fully-charged Electropriest
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Come to think of it, LR Redeemers might actually be an ok solution. I'm just not sure how effective it would be considering the high point cost. If I'd run a few Land Raiders I don't think I'd take DA ones but instead GK LRs with with Incinerator-wielding squads inside.
I don't think that Speeders would be the way to go, they don't just have enough shots to kill enough zombies. I'm going to try it out anyway pretty soon when I finish my RW Support Squadron so we'll see.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/06 22:50:50
Subject: How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Secretive Dark Angels Veteran
Canada
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dark talons and whirlwinds, and deredeo dreadnaught are my answers.
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DA army: 3500pts,
admech army: 600pts
ravenguard: 565 pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/07 01:15:00
Subject: Re:How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Irked Necron Immortal
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Alternatively, a Land Speeder with dual Heavy Flamers (or Heavy Bolter/Heavy Flamer) is 55 points and will do work against hordes. It's probably going to get wrecked in return, but 2 or 3 of these should do a great job of thinning down a horde or two.
As mentioned, LR Redeemers are a great option.
If you don't mind using allies Thunderfire Cannons are a swell option, or you could go full ham - there's a Forge World Knight that has some silly rule that lets it trade all of its close combat attacks for a single attack targeting every enemy model in base with it. And it still gets to Stomp! Don't remember which Knight it is, though.
Nova witchfire powers have the potential to be amusing.
Never underestimate the power of Tacticals with bolters - these are the types of armies that bolters were designed to murder.
EDIT: For hilarity, take Inquisitor Karamazov, and get a squad you don't care about in melee - then start dropping pie plates. Can't space models out too much in close combat!
EDIT2: Drop Pods with Deathwind Missile Launchers are fairly cheap and durable for putting on some extra wounds.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/05/07 01:38:09
DT:80+S++G++M--B--IPw40k11+D+A+++/cWD-R+++T(D)DM+
8000, mostly painted
14000, all over the place |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/07 03:18:41
Subject: How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Nasty Nob
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I am a horde player that fights against DA rather often.
Orkz are very vulnerable to Ld and Pinning. Three Whirlwinds in a squad force both.
Space Marine initiative sweeps my orkz reguarly. Get a Redeemer, fill it with a light assaulty squad that posssess the Lightning Claw attacks needed to kill orkz in droves. Win combat and sweep. Try to buff them with Zealot (Chaplain) to ensure the first round of combat is nasty. Or even Crusader to help ensure the sweep.
A Rhino herding models for a Redeemer is super effective.
Forcing fear and leadership checks with Psykers is nasty.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/07 03:19:28
I am the kinda ork that takes his own washing machine apart, puts new bearings in it, then puts it back together, and it still works. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/07 04:54:51
Subject: How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Fighter Ace
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traitor
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/07 05:01:21
Subject: How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
New Zealand
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Ally in Wyverns, they're designed to shred light infantry hordes and are stupidly good at it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/07 05:40:28
Subject: How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Nasty Nob
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Every dead ork is at least three more
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I am the kinda ork that takes his own washing machine apart, puts new bearings in it, then puts it back together, and it still works. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/07 17:25:07
Subject: How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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Just hit and run, shoot and charge again. Hordes suck now. Especially against fast bikes with hit and run.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/07 17:30:43
Subject: How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Tough Tyrant Guard
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Do DA not get the dope WW squadron bonus? 3 gives you shred? 3 Shredding barrage large blasts would be BRUTAL against most things, especially to hordes.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/07 17:34:56
Subject: How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
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Redeemers may actually cut it.
FNP gets doubled out and its not like you will be short of targets with the 2 flame storm cannons.
And from memory, plague zombies have no grenades right? (Doesn't really matter now lol)
So essentially you can park it in a horde and blaze away.
Being a land raider its about as robust as vehicles get too.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/07 18:19:38
Subject: How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions
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why dont you just charge things into that tarpit that cant hurt it. ie knights, (gasp) dreadnoughts, if they have a nob or a guy with str 10 potential challenge him out. id go with quad mortars, and lots of flamers. whats stopping you from using your amazing interrormancy stuff? or using psychic powers that destroy hordes. also use vehicles and make a line (rhino wall) now they cant pass you without taking out vehicles. literally make a square of rhinos and inside put your troops now they cant kill you without destroying the rhinos. or tank keep tank shocking the horde. dunno that always works for me
just my 2 cents
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/07 22:18:55
Subject: How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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The Redeemer is a terrible idea. Aiming just ONE Flamestorm, let alone two, is a complete pain in the ass.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/07 23:04:18
Subject: How to deal with horde armies as DA?
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Pete Haines
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After facing quad mortars, yeah, for 12 Melta bombs a pop, they are just a tad bit good. They are pretty good vs most target types as well.
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