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Cerebrium wrote:Comparing a Crisis Suit and a space marine is a bit silly. There are FAR more Space Marines than crisis suits.

Maybe on the table top, but there are only around one million SMs in the entire galaxy, (probably less) And while Tau numbers are a subject of debate, considering they occupy multiple planets I'm going to say they number in the billions. Granted, not all of them are Fire Caste, and even fewer elite enough for a Crisis Suit. Perhaps only as few as 100,000,000 over all could operate a crisis suit. That's still 100 times more than all SMs combined.

Hell, I'd go as far as saying crisis suits are more comparable to dreadnoughts. And dreadnoughts win that hands down.

They are like dreadnaughts in that they can carry much larger, more powerful weapons. But their armor is too light be be considered vehicular. They are armored infantry, just like SMs... Only physically stronger, more mobile, and able to sustain more damage... In addition to carrying bigger, better guns. SMs better pray Crisis Suits don't receive melee upgrade options in the new codex...

Plus Tau don't need to make their tech NEARLY as mass-produced as the Imperium. Compare the pulse rifle to the lasgun. Yes, the pulse rifle is instantly superior, but there are BILLIONS more guardsmen than fire warriors.

You make it sound as though each Firewarrior has to forge his own pulse rifle. Mass producing their tech is exactly what Tau do. Though I don't see how numbers are relevant. Mass production is mass production.

If you want to draw comparisons, the Crisis Suit and the Terminator I think are a closer starting point than Crisis Suit and Marine PA.

Both are comparable in size and in the extensiveness of their augmentation. Both are designed as elite infantry forces. Both are capable of using weapons heavier than those by infantry.

The big difference is the Terminator went towards armoured protection while the Crisis Suit went for mobility.

Something new for you to discuss.
It's probably fake but I post it anyways.. ^^

SUMMARY OF THE LEAK
(For you impatient people who don't want to read through the whole long conversation for the details.)

-Tau will be the first codex of next year
-Phil Kelly is writing the new book, not Cruddace or Ward as has otherwise been rumored.
-Crisis suits do not get a new kit, but they are getting an upgrade sprue for making special issue weapons and Broadsides.
-A Shas'el Commander unlocks Crisis suits as troops. Other types of commander are implied, including a Stealth Suit commander.
-Drones are changing significantly in how they are bought. Several new types of drones (heavy weapons, melee) are being added.
-Markerlights are Assault 1 weapons now; burning one counter lets you reroll misses or forces the enemy to reroll either cover or pinning tests. Pathfinders have the innate ability to split their fire to multiple targets.
-At least one unit from each of the five castes will be fieldable in the codex.
-There is at least one flyer (the Barracuda) in the book and getting a plastic kit, possibly more.
-Several other Forge World units (Tetras, XV9 Hazard Suits) are getting brought over as well.
-There is at least one new named character "pilot" for a flyer, a la Pask, but the system to represent them is apparently being reconsidered as part of 6E.
-Demiurg are added to the book, functioning "like Dwarves in Fantasy," with ponderous, low-AP guns and strong melee attacks. Hrud are present as well.
-Gue'vesa are available, working similarly to Inquisitorial allies drawn from the IG codex.
-Kroot Carnivores will be 5pts to bring them more in line with IG costs. They keep the same statline (and have Stealth?) but require a Shaper (unsure if he meant as an HQ or as a mandatory squad member.)
-Disruption Pod gives the Stealth USR and grants a 6+ cover save if you lack one.
-All Pulse weapons are Strength 6 in the new codex, as are Burst Cannons.
-Plasma Rifles and Missile Pods are now the same stats as their Imperial counterparts (the Plasmagun and Autocannon, respectively.)
-Seeker Missiles are 72" range and can be fired with one of several different profiles. The basic missile is still S8 AP3, but gains the Blast property. A second, "frag"-type mode is S6 AP5 Large Blast; these two fire modes come standard on the missiles (only one type can shoot each turn.) Two additional upgrade fire modes are available that improve on them, one that is S5 AP6 Large Blast No Cover Saves, another that is S9 AP1 and rolls 2d6 for penetration.
-The new codex expands on their fluff significantly, giving them more interactions with other xenos races, including resolving their grudge with Urien Rakarth and more on the story between them and Crowe.
-It's also implied that there is a faction friendly to (or at least neutral with) the Tau within the Imperium itself. Heresy!
-We learn a lot more about Tau culture and the kinds of lives their citizens lead.


So overall it sounds like there are some big changes ahead for the little blue guys. Fire Warriors not being gak, Broadsides not being horrible on your hands and worse on your wallet, Skyrays being a unit that you can actually field without being laughed at, lots of new options for ally races. And, most importantly, NOT CRUDDACE'S WORK. You can't imagine how happy that makes me.


source:
http://www.3plusplus.net/2012/01/new-tau-info-believe-it.html

Its a joke by Abuse Puppy. Scroll down into the comment section and you will see that the readers discovered that Abuse Puppy bolded several letters in his post that spell out LOLITROLYU.

Yes, definitely a fake. That's why the rumour thread presenting this fake was immediately locked.

I'm hoping that all of the alien races will get HQ and troop choices so that people will have the freedom to run 'pure' armies for fluff purposes, even if they're not competitive.

I know people like to run Kroot armies already, how about Demiurg?

Archonate wrote:

Cerebrium wrote:Comparing a Crisis Suit and a space marine is a bit silly. There are FAR more Space Marines than crisis suits.

Maybe on the table top, but there are only around one million SMs in the entire galaxy, (probably less) And while Tau numbers are a subject of debate, considering they occupy multiple planets I'm going to say they number in the billions. Granted, not all of them are Fire Caste, and even fewer elite enough for a Crisis Suit. Perhaps only as few as 100,000,000 over all could operate a crisis suit. That's still 100 times more than all SMs combined.

Hell, I'd go as far as saying crisis suits are more comparable to dreadnoughts. And dreadnoughts win that hands down.

They are like dreadnaughts in that they can carry much larger, more powerful weapons. But their armor is too light be be considered vehicular. They are armored infantry, just like SMs... Only physically stronger, more mobile, and able to sustain more damage... In addition to carrying bigger, better guns. SMs better pray Crisis Suits don't receive melee upgrade options in the new codex...

Plus Tau don't need to make their tech NEARLY as mass-produced as the Imperium. Compare the pulse rifle to the lasgun. Yes, the pulse rifle is instantly superior, but there are BILLIONS more guardsmen than fire warriors.

You make it sound as though each Firewarrior has to forge his own pulse rifle. Mass producing their tech is exactly what Tau do. Though I don't see how numbers are relevant. Mass production is mass production.

Actually from what I read, crisis suits were originally supposed to be dreadnoughts with a JSJ move. They changed that to being MEQ with multiple heavy weapons options.

Soo, anybody going to do an indepth analysis of the leaked 6th edition to determine its impact on Tau?

Some things that caught my attention so far:

- Assault move changed to a 2D6" movement in the new consolidation phase.

Tbh, I'd rather have had it stuck on 6", it will really suck if you cant jump behind cover just because of a sucky roll :(.

- Jet pack units getting the 'Airborn' rule -> they ignore dangerous/difficult terrain

Yay for no more slim chance of getting a wound for tripping over a branch when landing in a forest .

- Disruption pod down to 5+ cover save.

:(.

- Stealth field generator is Veiled(2), meaning 2D6" * 2 spotting distance.

I think that is an improvement, if I'm not mistaken its 2D6" * 3 atm.

-Units with preffered enemy hit on a 3+ in ranged combat.
allways..
On a 2+ if they would have allready hit on a 3+.
I will so send my ethereal in every close combat he can reach. XD

-3 rapid fire shots on 12" 2 on 18"...

-Also deep striking for close combat units got neverd extremely, while I can place my battlesuits wherever I want them to be! (ok not for sunforges, but hey^^)

I don't like Tau that much, but my cousin will be pretty happy XD.

IPS wrote:-3 rapid fire shots on 12" 2 on 18"...

This is only for relentless models, i.e. battlesuits. This is now called sustained fire, and simply adds +1 shot, as you can now have Rapid Fire (2), so you have 2 shots up to max range, and 3 shots at 12"/18". Also, relentless models can use rapid fire weapon as 2nd CCW. Not that we have any CCW but still, that might be nice for some other race .

MoD_Legion wrote:

IPS wrote:-3 rapid fire shots on 12" 2 on 18"...

This is only for relentless models, i.e. battlesuits. This is now called sustained fire, and simply adds +1 shot, as you can now have Rapid Fire (2), so you have 2 shots up to max range, and 3 shots at 12"/18". Also, relentless models can use rapid fire weapon as 2nd CCW. Not that we have any CCW but still, that might be nice for some other race .

I thought that all models have one ccw automatically, so they would gain one attack automatically.

MoD_Legion wrote:

IPS wrote:-3 rapid fire shots on 12" 2 on 18"...

This is only for relentless models, i.e. battlesuits. This is now called sustained fire, and simply adds +1 shot, as you can now have Rapid Fire (2), so you have 2 shots up to max range, and 3 shots at 12"/18". Also, relentless models can use rapid fire weapon as 2nd CCW. Not that we have any CCW but still, that might be nice for some other race .

What?

Mmm, ok..
But Jet Pack infantry does not get the reletless rule if I read correctly, so it's still 12" rapid fire as usual for all tau.

Also that draw back rule is kinda strange.
It's a shooting attack?
Does this mean you have to spent a fire action on it, or what?
Or is it just assumed that the battlesuits shoot while retreating?

Also: Can a battlesuit commander (as independent character) use dirceted hits at point blank range?

IPS wrote:Mmm, ok..
But Jet Pack infantry does not get the reletless rule if I read correctly, so it's still 12" rapid fire as usual for all tau.

It would make me a sad panda to not get extra new goodies, but tbh none of our currently relentless suits can use heavy weapons to begin with ([edit] wait, except for stealth suits and markerlights perhaps[/edit]), and the only rapid fire weapon they have access to (I think) is the plasma rifle. What is kinda weird though is that the relentless rule description itself does include jet packers, so either it is a typo there, or an oversight on the part of the listing at the jet pack section (same goes for bikes, also mentioned under the relentless rule, but no relentless entry under their type description).

strange..

also an extremely awesome thing to note:
Tau railguns! (every weapon with "rail" in it's name)
You pick a target unit, roll to hit like with a template weapon,
then draw a straight line to where to shot lands.
Every model in that line get's one hit.
You must not have a los to hit the units.

edit:
you first roll to hit, like with a normal weapon,
and only if it misses it scatters... and kills something else. XD

IPS wrote:strange..

also an extremely awesome thing to note:
Tau railguns! (every weapon with "rail" in it's name)
You pick a target unit, roll to hit like with a template weapon,
then draw a straight line to where to shot lands.
Every model in that line get's one hit.
You must not have a los to hit the units.

edit:
you first roll to hit, like with a normal weapon,
and only if it misses it scatters... and kills something else. XD

So, HH railguns and Broadside Railguns evolves to become something like



I Freaking love it xD

Well, dont get to happy about it, everbody gets it for similar weapons (dont know the names of the top of my head, something with lances, amongst others).

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Archonate wrote:
The only thing the Imperium really has on Tau is Warp travel... In all of its perilous, unstable glory.

And Titans. And ships. And power armour, which is being improved on all the time BTW, thus refuting your first AND your second point. And void shields. And man-portable anti-tank weapons. And so on, and so forth. Yes, the Tau are more advanced in a few select areas (very important areas though), but on the grand scale of things, the Imperium is still well ahead.

Tau do not use Titans because they do not see the need for them. They draw alot of attention and cannot manouvre easily. Why would they need Titans when the Manta can Fly, deliver a similar level of firepower, there are more of them and can carry troops?

They have Ships. While not fully on par with Imperial versions they are actually improving theirs constantly and developing new ones.

Power armour - they have Crisis, stealth stuits and all sorts of other suit variants. If i remember correctly they are controlled by the Tau actually becoming the suit and controlling it like they would their body.

They also do not see a need for man-portable anti tank weapons. That is what Crisis suits are for. Each unit has their own purpose.

The Imperium, while it has access to more powerful technology, much of it is not actually being made by them anymore, nor do they know how it works. Technically that would mean they aren't ahead of the Tau in those areas, they just found some old technology and use it.

Mentlegen324 wrote:
Tau do not use Titans because they do not see the need for them. They draw alot of attention and cannot manouvre easily. Why would they need Titans when the Manta can Fly, deliver a similar level of firepower, there are more of them and can carry troops?

Because the Mantas are even larger targets? Seriously, they're Titan-sized flyers, they're gonna get hit by every single AA gun that is availabe and will be far more of a target than a Titan would ever be.

Mentlegen324 wrote:
They have Ships. While not fully on par with Imperial versions they are actually improving theirs constantly and developing new ones.

Implying that the Imperium isn't constantly improving theirs. Also, my argument was that the Imperium had an advantage compared to the Tau, good to see you agree.

Mentlegen324 wrote:Power armour - they have Crisis, stealth stuits and all sorts of other suit variants. If i remember correctly they are controlled by the Tau actually becoming the suit and controlling it like they would their body.

They're slightly smaller than Dreadnoughts; I wouldn't call that "Power Armour", more like, you know, a suit. Otherwise the Dreadknight would count and, well, that's pretty damn advanced.

Mentlegen324 wrote:
They also do not see a need for man-portable anti tank weapons. That is what Crisis suits are for. Each unit has their own purpose.

Which is completely irrelevant. The argument was that the Imperium has better man-portable anti-tank weapons, which they do. Don't move the goalposts.

Mentlegen324 wrote:
The Imperium, while it has access to more powerful technology, much of it is not actually being made by them anymore, nor do they know how it works. Technically that would mean they aren't ahead of the Tau in those areas, they just found some old technology and use it.

"Much of it" such as? The only pieces of technology the Imperium posesses that they can't reproduce (that I can think of) is the Golden Throne, the Astronomican and that one sensor station in DoW II.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Mentlegen324 wrote:
Tau do not use Titans because they do not see the need for them. They draw alot of attention and cannot manouvre easily. Why would they need Titans when the Manta can Fly, deliver a similar level of firepower, there are more of them and can carry troops?

Because the Mantas are even larger targets? Seriously, they're Titan-sized flyers, they're gonna get hit by every single AA gun that is availabe and will be far more of a target than a Titan would ever be.

Mentlegen324 wrote:
They have Ships. While not fully on par with Imperial versions they are actually improving theirs constantly and developing new ones.

Implying that the Imperium isn't constantly improving theirs. Also, my argument was that the Imperium had an advantage compared to the Tau, good to see you agree.

Mentlegen324 wrote:Power armour - they have Crisis, stealth stuits and all sorts of other suit variants. If i remember correctly they are controlled by the Tau actually becoming the suit and controlling it like they would their body.

They're slightly smaller than Dreadnoughts; I wouldn't call that "Power Armour", more like, you know, a suit. Otherwise the Dreadknight would count and, well, that's pretty damn advanced.

Mentlegen324 wrote:
They also do not see a need for man-portable anti tank weapons. That is what Crisis suits are for. Each unit has their own purpose.

Which is completely irrelevant. The argument was that the Imperium has better man-portable anti-tank weapons, which they do. Don't move the goalposts.

Mentlegen324 wrote:
The Imperium, while it has access to more powerful technology, much of it is not actually being made by them anymore, nor do they know how it works. Technically that would mean they aren't ahead of the Tau in those areas, they just found some old technology and use it.

"Much of it" such as? The only pieces of technology the Imperium posesses that they can't reproduce (that I can think of) is the Golden Throne, the Astronomican and that one sensor station in DoW II.

Not everything can hit a manta as it is a fast moving flying object, unlike titans which anything can hit quite easily. Manta's would not be as much of a target as a Titan, and they are easier to produce. They have no need for Titans. Mantas are also not the size of Titans (Except for a Warhound)

The imperium is not constantly improving their technology, very little is actually improved and even then it takes a long time. The Imperium has an advantage for now.

A Crisis suit is certainly not comparable to a Dreadnought. It's a suit of powerarmour. The DreadKnight is vehicle sized, and is not advanced at all. Tau Crisis suits are Fast, manouvreable suits of armour. Dreadnoughts are vehicles. Dreadknights are Vehicles.

Saying that Tau do not use man-portable anti-tank weapons is not irrelevant at all. It is completely relevent. Obviously the Imperium will have better ones when the Tau don't even need them.

Lots of technology is either lost, difficult to produce or just completely unknown. For example, Teleportation technology, Graviton weapons, Void weapons, cloaking technology, Terminator armour, Dreadnoughts and lots of other stuff. They have access to them, but in many cases they have no idea how it works. Some of it they can make more, but is is very slow and expensive to make.

Mentlegen324 wrote:
Not everything can hit a manta as it is a fast moving flying object, unlike titans which anything can hit quite easily. Manta's would not be as much of a target as a Titan, and they are easier to produce. They have no need for Titans. Mantas are also not the size of Titans (Except for a Warhound)

Everything that DOES hit will deal way more damage, because the Mantas are flying and don't have void shields.

Mentlegen324 wrote:
The imperium is not constantly improving their technology, very little is actually improved and even then it takes a long time. The Imperium has an advantage for now.

New STCs are discovered, new technologies are invented. I'd say that qualifies as constantly improving technology.

Mentlegen324 wrote:

A Crisis suit is certainly not comparable to a Dreadnought. It's a suit of powerarmour. The DreadKnight is vehicle sized, and is not advanced at all. Tau Crisis suits are Fast, manouvreable suits of armour. Dreadnoughts are vehicles. Dreadknights are Vehicles.

No, really, both Dreadknights and Dreadnoughts are piloted by one dude, so it's totally a suit of power armour! Notice how silly that argument sounds? Also, you kinda lost all credibility by claiming that Dreadknights aren't advanced. They teleport throught THE FRIGGIN' WARP AT WILL WITH PINPOINT ACCURACY. That technology alone leaves the so-called mobility of the Tau battlesuits miles behind, especially considering that it's downscaleable to backpack-size.

Mentlegen324 wrote:

Lots of technology is either lost, difficult to produce or just completely unknown. For example, Teleportation technology, Graviton weapons, Void weapons, cloaking technology, Terminator armour, Dreadnoughts and lots of other stuff. They have access to them, but in many cases they have no idea how it works. Some of it they can make more, but is is very slow and expensive to make.

So what? They still make them. Again, the Tau have better technology in some areas, of which quite a few are pretty significant, but as a whole, the Imperium is still way ahead.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Mentlegen324 wrote:
Not everything can hit a manta as it is a fast moving flying object, unlike titans which anything can hit quite easily. Manta's would not be as much of a target as a Titan, and they are easier to produce. They have no need for Titans. Mantas are also not the size of Titans (Except for a Warhound)

Everything that DOES hit will deal way more damage, because the Mantas are flying and don't have void shields.

Mentlegen324 wrote:
The imperium is not constantly improving their technology, very little is actually improved and even then it takes a long time. The Imperium has an advantage for now.

New STCs are discovered, new technologies are invented. I'd say that qualifies as constantly improving technology.

Mentlegen324 wrote:

A Crisis suit is certainly not comparable to a Dreadnought. It's a suit of powerarmour. The DreadKnight is vehicle sized, and is not advanced at all. Tau Crisis suits are Fast, manouvreable suits of armour. Dreadnoughts are vehicles. Dreadknights are Vehicles.

No, really, both Dreadknights and Dreadnoughts are piloted by one dude, so it's totally a suit of power armour! Notice how silly that argument sounds? Also, you kinda lost all credibility by claiming that Dreadknights aren't advanced. They teleport throught THE FRIGGIN' WARP AT WILL WITH PINPOINT ACCURACY. That technology alone leaves the so-called mobility of the Tau battlesuits miles behind, especially considering that it's downscaleable to backpack-size.

Mentlegen324 wrote:

Lots of technology is either lost, difficult to produce or just completely unknown. For example, Teleportation technology, Graviton weapons, Void weapons, cloaking technology, Terminator armour, Dreadnoughts and lots of other stuff. They have access to them, but in many cases they have no idea how it works. Some of it they can make more, but is is very slow and expensive to make.

So what? They still make them. Again, the Tau have better technology in some areas, of which quite a few are pretty significant, but as a whole, the Imperium is still way ahead.

The Manta is the primary space bomber and Cadre transport of the Tau. It will have Tau shields on it and is the smallest ship within the Tau fleet, it is not going to stay in one spot for long. Titans are hard to move.

At no point did i say Dreadknights and Dreadnoughts are power armour, nor that a Crisis suit is because it is controlled by one person. A Stealth Suit or an XV22 would be more comparable to a Space Marine and a Crisis suit would be more comparable to a Terminator.

Sorry, i got the Dreadknight wrong. I do not own a Grey Knight codex so did not know they could teleport. From just looking at the model it seemed quite low-tech considering when the Grey Knight lifts his arms so does the Dreadknight. I was wrong about that.

The innovation and initiative are frowned upon by the Adeptus Mechanicus. While they do recover old technology and very rarely make changes to things, they definately do not do so to the same scale as the Tau.

I am not saying that the Tau are more advanced in all areas at all. Much Imperial technology would not be understood by the Tau, but then again it's also not understood by the Imperium. The Imperium certaintly has better technology in many areas, but they just found old technology and use it without fully knowing how it works. The Tau actually know how all their stuff works and are constantly improving it.

Mentlegen324 wrote:
At no point did i say Dreadknights and Dreadnoughts are power armour, nor that a Crisis suit is because it is controlled by one person. A Stealth Suit or an XV22 would be more comparable to a Space Marine and a Crisis suit would be more comparable to a Terminator.

The point is, even GW themselves list Crisis and Broadside Suits as having pilots, not as being armour they simply don. If you compare the Crisis Suit to Terminator Armour, the Terminator Armour still wins because it's sturdier and deployed by teleportation, circumventing the need for them to be very mobile in the first place (hey, if the "they don't need it" argument is fine for Tau man-portable anti-tank, it should be valid here too!).

Well, to be correct terminator armors are something totally different
since they weren't developed for combat in the first place iirc...
Was something with plasma core maintenance me thinks.

Krisis suits just don't have any counter part in the imperial army, it's as simple as that.
Power armor could have the counter part in the Stealth suits,
but then again they are not really comparable either.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Mentlegen324 wrote:
At no point did i say Dreadknights and Dreadnoughts are power armour, nor that a Crisis suit is because it is controlled by one person. A Stealth Suit or an XV22 would be more comparable to a Space Marine and a Crisis suit would be more comparable to a Terminator.

The point is, even GW themselves list Crisis and Broadside Suits as having pilots, not as being armour they simply don. If you compare the Crisis Suit to Terminator Armour, the Terminator Armour still wins because it's sturdier and deployed by teleportation, circumventing the need for them to be very mobile in the first place (hey, if the "they don't need it" argument is fine for Tau man-portable anti-tank, it should be valid here too!).

There is difference between Tau not requiring Man-Portable anti-tank weapons due to the way they fight, and terminators not being manouvreable. Terminators were not designed with the purpose of being slow, that is just a downside - and not all Terminators teleport.

The new FAQ's are out and the only armies that did not receive an update were Tau and Black Templar.... Interesting or am I reading too much into it?

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Mentlegen324 wrote:

A Crisis suit is certainly not comparable to a Dreadnought. It's a suit of powerarmour. The DreadKnight is vehicle sized, and is not advanced at all. Tau Crisis suits are Fast, manouvreable suits of armour. Dreadnoughts are vehicles. Dreadknights are Vehicles.

No, really, both Dreadknights and Dreadnoughts are piloted by one dude, so it's totally a suit of power armour! Notice how silly that argument sounds? Also, you kinda lost all credibility by claiming that Dreadknights aren't advanced. They teleport throught THE FRIGGIN' WARP AT WILL WITH PINPOINT ACCURACY. That technology alone leaves the so-called mobility of the Tau battlesuits miles behind, especially considering that it's downscaleable to backpack-size.

I really don't understand this, it's not power armour, It's Tactical Dreadknight Armour, plus, Tau would not have a mecha suit, they believe in a way which combines maximum protection with good mobility and a Mecha Suit would not make sense as it would be slow and cumbersome. Sure, the Broadside is a slow suit, but the fact is it still has a 2+ save a S10 AP1 weapon and it can still move with an upgrade which I think should be compulsory in the new codex. The fact that in the rumours an assault transport doesn't really make any sense either, sure all Tau players, including myself would love to be able to perform drive by's, but in the fluff it says that all Tau vehicles are pressureized to maximize transport efficiency so they aren't Open Topped and there are no fire points.

Plus you can't really say that a Dreadknight's Technology is advanced through scientific technology, without them being psykers, they wouldn't have the Dreadknight teleporters! So from a scientific point of view it is the Tau, Necrons and Tyranids that have the best technology in the game.

Don't forget elder. For the best tech, I would have to say that crons, tau and elder have the best tech. Why would nids count? Hang on. I'm going to make a poll of this.

Lets just talk about Tau rumours, not your fanboyism.