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They can be the new thing!. Codex: Invisable marines!

Kroothawk wrote:Well, all Codices now get a bunch of special characters of all fractions in the book. Would be difficult to add "can't be used as an HQ" to all non-Tau HQ selections. Some people are not satisfied with getting all the options they want, they also want that noone else gets his options

Well in that case I second Kilkrazy, I want a Space Marine codex that makes it possible to build a Space Marine army with no Space Marines in it. And if I don't get that then I'm going to cry foul and accuse Space Marine players and GW of denying me the options I want.

Personally though, I don't think GW is going to focus more on the alien auxiliaries than they have now. I mean look, this is the same company that couldn't figure out how to put both Chaos Space Marines and Daemons in the same book (despite the fact that it's actually kinda simple since the Chaos Space Marines summon daemons, and there were rules for that in the last book even), so what makes you think they're going to put any more effort into the Tau codex (one of the more unpopular races, apparently) and make it possible to field not only a traditional Tau army, but a purist Tau army, a Kroot mercenary faction, and an all-Demiurg army, and make them all balanced/competitive? Sounds like wishlisting to me, especially since you'd have more options in each FOC slot than a Space Marine codex.

I dunno though, I don't pretend to know what GW is planning. Maybe ghost21 is right and there will be options for Kroot and Demiurg armies, maybe the fluff will change dramatically and Tau won't be anything like they are today (very likely if Mat Ward is writing the codex). I'm not saying I don't want anyone to get what they want, but I'm going to be pretty disappointed personally if all the new kits we get are auxiliaries and Tau don't actually get any new suits or vehicles because GW had to focus too much on making sure the Kroot and Demiurg players could make legal armies (because like I said, you're going to need to cover all the bases: HQ, elite, heavy support, etc.).

Just for the record, I don't hate Kroot or Vespid (well I do hate Vespid but that's only because they're a festering pile of gak in-game), I just like the look of a mostly Tau army with a couple alien auxiliaries for support. I've never really been that interested in fielding nothing but Tau or Kroot or whatever, like you guys I also like the Empire part of Tau Empire, but I don't forget the word that comes before it.

Personally I don't think all kroot and all demiurg armies will be "competitive" but so what?
If you want a competitive army you should have to use every thing in the codex. There is a reason why tau incloued those aliens in the first place B|.

But for those players who care more about style and story of their army and just like that particular alien race, why not have some all alien setups?
Nobody forces you to use on or the other.

It all comes back to the story of the chapter/sept/ craftworld for me. I'm a bit of a background lover. You know this when you want to write up storys to go with every battle that your guys fight.

Are Tau unpopular? During 4th edition when they were fresh, they apparently comprised nearly 10% of models sold for 40K.

If they are unpopular now, it is surely because they are the weakest army in the game, haven't had any new models for five years, and have dismal amounts of fluff.

Kilkrazy wrote:... and have dismal amounts of fluff.

OTOH, what they do have is very strong, at least in terms of being distinct. I think this is one of the reasons Tau have such a loyal fanbase. The dex as rumored looks like a strong follow up to the direction of Tau Empire. All-member-race armies (regardless of competitiveness) would be icing on the cake. And yet consider the Necron retco (Retcron?).

Sidstyler wrote:
You can't compare the Tau to the British (not just because one exists only in fantasy) because the Tau have billions and billions to their number, the Tau race stretches across several worlds and every world in their empire likely does have a Tau presence on it to ensure that the will of the ethereals is being carried out and that all their subsumed races are operating in the Tau way, for the Greater Good (because the Tau not only have the manpower but they probably also give more of a gak than the British in ensuring their Empire was run the way it "should" be*). If I recall correctly, the Fire Caste is also very traditional and purist, and they don't really prefer using alien auxiliaries if they can help it, they mostly only do so because the ethereals will it and have incorporated auxiliary forces into the military themselves. If the Fire Caste had their way Tau armies would probably all be purely Tau. But I might be wrong about that.

The only race that really operates independently is the Kroot, and they only get away with that because they do it outside of the watchful eye of their Tau overseers. The Tau probably wouldn't be too happy if they learned the Kroot were acting as mercenaries for the other races against their back, and doing it purely for their own gain (their continued evolution and survival by consuming the dead of other races, a practice the Tau don't condone and are fighting hard to change even though it would lead to an evolutionary dead end and the stagnation of the Kroot race).


*In case anyone was wondering this was meant more as a joke than anything, I'm not exactly a history buff so I couldn't tell you.

More like the mid-late Roman Empire (without the East/West bit). Local governors that leave the non-Roman populous pretty much alone as long as they mind their p's and q's. Auxilliary forces comprised of units from member-states with a Roman core at the center and administration.

Sorry to be off-topic all.

The Tau have a just Tau Faction: Farsight. It exists, and I expect it to expand in the next dex. I don't see how they could not expand it somehow.

I'm focusing on the Empire aspect because that's really what makes the Tau distinct. The Fact that you have insect(stupid vespids) and bird and fish people all fighting together is what sets them apart from CODEX:"Race/Sub Race". A faction defined by ideals and not by biological mishap.

From a purely Fluff perspective there would have to be points where Tau leadership could be incapacitated, and the best leadership option would be a Kroot or Vespid (okay, maybe not a vespid) or a Demiuirg, or whatever these lil rock people will be called.

While the fluff doesn't state the Kroot fighting on their own as anything besides Mercs, it doesn't really delve into the background that much either (The Kroot dex thingy has a great helping of little tidbits of Kroot info, did you know Eldar Kroot get psychic powers? Now you know).

I'm not saying the Tau shouldn't come first and foremost, as a Tau player I would find that pretty disappointing if it did happen. Excluding other HQ's just because they aren't Tau seems like a rather extreme measure to allow the focus to stay completely and totally on the Tau, which is not what the Tau Empire as a whole is all about.


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agnosto wrote:More like the mid-late Roman Empire (without the East/West bit). Local governors that leave the non-Roman populous pretty much alone as long as they mind their p's and q's. Auxilliary forces comprised of units from member-states with a Roman core at the center and administration.

For the Greater Good of Rome?

I heard someone say something anout tarelian dog soldiers, could that possibly be true, if so, feth YEAH!

Sidstyler wrote:Well in that case I second Kilkrazy, I want a Space Marine codex that makes it possible to build a Space Marine army with no Space Marines in it. And if I don't get that then I'm going to cry foul and accuse Space Marine players and GW of denying me the options I want.

You are lucky. The only SM Codex that featured non-SM before, now has an option for making a non-SM list: Codex Grey Knights.
BTW, even with the first Codex, the author made a Kroot only WD list.

Sidstyler wrote:I dunno though, I don't pretend to know what GW is planning. Maybe ghost21 is right and there will be options for Kroot and Demiurg armies, maybe the fluff will change dramatically and Tau won't be anything like they are today (very likely if Mat Ward is writing the codex). I'm not saying I don't want anyone to get what they want, but I'm going to be pretty disappointed personally if all the new kits we get are auxiliaries and Tau don't actually get any new suits or vehicles because GW had to focus too much on making sure the Kroot and Demiurg players could make legal armies (because like I said, you're going to need to cover all the bases: HQ, elite, heavy support, etc.).

Just for the record, I don't hate Kroot or Vespid (well I do hate Vespid but that's only because they're a festering pile of gak in-game), I just like the look of a mostly Tau army with a couple alien auxiliaries for support. I've never really been that interested in fielding nothing but Tau or Kroot or whatever, like you guys I also like the Empire part of Tau Empire, but I don't forget the word that comes before it.

Almost all rumours currently come from ghost21. He suggests that non-Tau lists are possible. He also says that beside new Xenos, we will see 4 new tau units. So what's the problem? Even the fluff supports the addition of new races to the Tau Empire.

BTW thanks for not hating Kroot

We're not hating non-Tau, we're hating the thought that the Tau book will become a mess filled with non-Tau options everywhere, and people are going to be fielding armies without a single blueie in it, sidelining the titular force IN THEIR OWN CODEX. Lets not joke around here, Tau are on thin ice, a lot of people would be glad to see them gone, this will be a small step in that direction.

Kroothawk wrote:BTW thanks for not hating Kroot

Because the only thing that's worse than messing with the inquisition is beeing hunted by the kroot.
Man, they even eat you allive and sh*t.. ^^

chaos0xomega wrote: Lets not joke around here, Tau are on thin ice, a lot of people would be glad to see them gone.

Who exactly?

I like my Tau alot, but the problem with them currently is that they have very few worthwhile units (Crisis Suits, Broadsides, Hammerheads, Fire Warriors), so having alot more variety wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Most players want to field armies that either have a theme or are unique to them personally, so a heavy Kroot or Vespid army isn't unthinkable.

As a matter of fact it makes more sense fluff-wise. Kroot operate independently from Cadres (take the Taros Campaign for example) where the Shapers lead their packs but fight for the Tau. It also fits with the Empire's theme of unification under one goal or idea.

Besides, putting the Kroot Merc Army from chapter approved into the Tau Codex would be awsome.

All the Tau units are kind of samey. I guess that's fine by SM standards where it's all power armor all the time. I like a little variety in an expanding, assimilating xeno empire.

Sidstyler wrote: People are trying to argue that it should be possible to build a Tau army with no actual Tau in it, and that doesn't really make sense or even seem reasonable.

Why not? It was certainly possible to fight the British Empire without seeing a single Brit on the field not too many decades back. Same with the Romans, the Chinese, the Mongols... It's not as if Empires in general feel risking one of their own is necessary in every little backwoods dust up. Even if the Tau have administrators on every planet, I doubt they would come roaring out of their ivory towers to face the Chaos legions mano-a-mano unless they really felt they were needed there. Nor would they be at every fight across the planet.

It's very unlikely that GW could produce enough new models to provide Kroot, Vespids and Demiurg with enough models in all the different Force Chart slots to make a legal and viable army.

Thus the codex will hopefully be a solid Tau army with a good variety of alien auxiliary units.

chaos0xomega wrote:We're not hating non-Tau, we're hating the thought that the Tau book will become a mess filled with non-Tau options everywhere, and people are going to be fielding armies without a single blueie in it, sidelining the titular force IN THEIR OWN CODEX. Lets not joke around here, Tau are on thin ice, a lot of people would be glad to see them gone, this will be a small step in that direction.

Yeah, and the fact that other people make army lists that aren't thematically what you think they should be affects you... how?

Let's be reasonable. There is no massive conspiracy to get Tau removed from the game. Having the option of non-Tau units will not affect the prominence of Tau in the meta-game. Only one factor will affect that, and that is if the xenos units are better mechanic-wise than Tau units. And judging by the last to codicies, that doesn't seem likely.

JOHIRA wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:We're not hating non-Tau, we're hating the thought that the Tau book will become a mess filled with non-Tau options everywhere, and people are going to be fielding armies without a single blueie in it, sidelining the titular force IN THEIR OWN CODEX. Lets not joke around here, Tau are on thin ice, a lot of people would be glad to see them gone, this will be a small step in that direction.

Yeah, and the fact that other people make army lists that aren't thematically what you think they should be affects you... how?

Let's be reasonable. There is no massive conspiracy to get Tau removed from the game. Having the option of non-Tau units will not affect the prominence of Tau in the meta-game. Only one factor will affect that, and that is if the xenos units are better mechanic-wise than Tau units. And judging by the last to codicies, that doesn't seem likely.

There are so many pages in the average codex and only so many plastic kits that will be released for units in it... if those resources are devoted more significantly to non-Tau, the variety in actual Tau units will not be as much. While I personally don't mind a bit of variety, a general clamor for tons of non-Tau in the Tau codex does affect people who won't be using them. On the miniscule chance that GW listens to anonymous fan feedback, blue-bloods need to stick up for themselves just as much as you smelly feather heads! If someone has a right to clamor for X, then others have a right to clamor against too much X.

warboss wrote:

JOHIRA wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:We're not hating non-Tau, we're hating the thought that the Tau book will become a mess filled with non-Tau options everywhere, and people are going to be fielding armies without a single blueie in it, sidelining the titular force IN THEIR OWN CODEX. Lets not joke around here, Tau are on thin ice, a lot of people would be glad to see them gone, this will be a small step in that direction.

Yeah, and the fact that other people make army lists that aren't thematically what you think they should be affects you... how?

Let's be reasonable. There is no massive conspiracy to get Tau removed from the game. Having the option of non-Tau units will not affect the prominence of Tau in the meta-game. Only one factor will affect that, and that is if the xenos units are better mechanic-wise than Tau units. And judging by the last to codicies, that doesn't seem likely.

There are so many pages in the average codex and only so many plastic kits that will be released for units in it... if those resources are devoted more significantly to non-Tau, the variety in actual Tau units will not be as much. While I personally don't mind a bit of variety, a general clamor for tons of non-Tau in the Tau codex does affect people who won't be using them. On the miniscule chance that GW listens to anonymous fan feedback, blue-bloods need to stick up for themselves just as much as you smelly feather heads! If someone has a right to clamor for X, then others have a right to clamor against too much X.

It's all for the Greater Good, right? As long as XV8s and 88s are good, are the Tau really losing that much ground? Fire Warriors are terrible, so any Tau troops that are capable of something are an addition to Tau forces that once wasn't. Thats a plus right? RIGHT!

Vespid suck, and no one likes them, so they can go meet a windshield. (This statement hasn't been evaluated by reasonable thought)

BIRD AND FISH PEOPLE UNITE!

Hey, look, I love my vespids, and I'm about to drop 180 dollars to buy 120 kroot minis, but the point of the matter is... its a TAU codex, and the TAU should be a staple feature of EVERY army.

chaos0xomega wrote:Hey, look, I love my vespids, and I'm about to drop 180 dollars to buy 120 kroot minis, but the point of the matter is... its a TAU codex, and the TAU should be a staple feature of EVERY army.

Agreed. I hope we get an update that takes things the Dark Eldar route and by that I mean a few established "branches" with the ability to have variation within each branch. I love how Dark Eldar have the option of having a Kabal, Wych force, or an entirely different group like an Incubi or twisted Haemonculi force with a small envoy of Kabalite Warriors of Wyches as representation of the core Dark Eldar.

I have 100 Kroots and 50 hounds. I whole heatedly support non-Tau variation much like Coteaz unlocks all-henchmen army.

I noticed rumors of a new WFB monster-sized model for Kroot. For the greater good, please let it be Greater Knarloc with monstrous creature rule and stats! Current rules doesn't do the model justice.

I'm more in line with the view that is it Codex: Tau Empire, as such so long as members of that empire are fielded it's fine. What I'd like to see is the option to have non-Tau member of the empire have the option to take some of Tau's tech. In short you could run an all kroot army, but you'd still see the touch of the Tau on them.

Eldar I think are coming first

Codex: Greater Good

Some would say: Codex Lesser Evil

Codex: Communist.



That one was just for you Kroot!

What Tau would really need is a Gigacrisis Suit that is made out of 5 different coloured regular crisis suits.

What I, on the other hand, really need is an idea on dimensions for the new vehicles coming in the codex, should there be any. I am repurposing a bunch of old mini's for a tau army (just beacuse I want to repaint all the little sob's with my airbrush I guess) and will be scratch building the vehicles I think.

Codex: Tau Confederacy?