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Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

So I've got around 2k of TS built up, never actually used them yet, not even in 8th. Might have a 2k doubles game coming up this week, alongside my friend who runs Orks, will probably be against Necrons and something else.

Just wondering how this looks for a 1k list:

HQ
Exalted Sorcerer - Disk of Tzeench
Sorcerer

Troops
10x Rubrics - Soulreaper, Icon of Flame
5x Rubrics - Soulreaper - Icon of Flame

Elites
Hellbrute - Twin-Las
5x Scarab Terminators - Soulreaper, Hellfyre Rack

Comes to 941. I have some more Rubrics, another Hellbrute, a Defiler and a Daemon Prince at my disposal. It feels a bit light to me. I've seen good things done with the Scarabs but I'm unsure as to wherever 5 is enough. Overall I'm wondering if it's worth swapping out the Hellbrute for the Defiler.

Additionally, what spells should I be focusing on, and on who?

   
Made in pt
Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp




An Exalted Sorcerer kitted out with Aetherstride, Relic Disc and a Kopesh seems to be able to act quite similarly to the Heldrake, as far as a unit that can dive 30” at will and start causing trouble.

   
Made in us
Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch





 Valkyrie wrote:
So I've got around 2k of TS built up, never actually used them yet, not even in 8th. Might have a 2k doubles game coming up this week, alongside my friend who runs Orks, will probably be against Necrons and something else.

Just wondering how this looks for a 1k list:

HQ
Exalted Sorcerer - Disk of Tzeench
Sorcerer

Troops
10x Rubrics - Soulreaper, Icon of Flame
5x Rubrics - Soulreaper - Icon of Flame

Elites
Hellbrute - Twin-Las
5x Scarab Terminators - Soulreaper, Hellfyre Rack

Comes to 941. I have some more Rubrics, another Hellbrute, a Defiler and a Daemon Prince at my disposal. It feels a bit light to me. I've seen good things done with the Scarabs but I'm unsure as to wherever 5 is enough. Overall I'm wondering if it's worth swapping out the Hellbrute for the Defiler.

Additionally, what spells should I be focusing on, and on who?



I would drop out the sorcerer and swap in the DP. You have 59 left plus 90 which is 149 so drop the rubrics to a 9 man (tzeentch’s number) and you can put one in without wings. This is similar to my 50 point crusade list (swap you sorcerer for infernal master and put warp flamers on the 5 man) which I have had a lot of success with. Don’t sleep on 5 man SoT. They are good
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Yoyoyo wrote:
An Exalted Sorcerer kitted out with Aetherstride, Relic Disc and a Kopesh seems to be able to act quite similarly to the Heldrake, as far as a unit that can dive 30” at will and start causing trouble.



Ehhh. You're moving 18.5" turn 1. You can warptime yourself and guarantee a charge, but you're putting a lynchpin character in their lines to die next turn. With just one cast ( more with CP ) he's doing very little.

Maybe 4 wounds to an admech flyer in melee if you have swelled on. Heldrake does 5.5 damage in melee plus flamer on some worthwhile target. It can drop a flat 3MW on something with FLY. It move blocks so much better. You can drop to hover and still get enough distance to charge a back field objective holder. And it has more than twice the wounds with a better toughness.

And it does that without a WL trait, relic, and spells.



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/25 15:57:12


   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator





 Daedalus81 wrote:
Ehhh. You're moving 18.5" turn 1. You can warptime yourself and guarantee a charge, but you're putting a lynchpin character in their lines to die next turn. With just one cast ( more with CP ) he's doing very little.


The Exalted Sorcerer is a 2/1 caster. I think you need Dilettante and Seer's Bane for the Exalted Disc Sorcerer to be really effective. At that point it's cheaper than the DP, hits almost as hard, and is more easily buffed. Temporal Surge, for example, doesn't work on the DP or Magnus anymore, but it will work on a disc rider. What you do for a second relic is a matter of taste.

"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."  
   
Made in pt
Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp




@ Daedalus : Point taken but you always want the take the most favourable trade possible. Which means something like their linchpin HQ (ie. Logi Manipulus w/Luminiscent, Flare), not a plane.

If you don’t have a great trade, well, it’s still a 2/1 psyker as mentioned which generates cabal points and can hide as a character. There’s no reason to simply throw a HQ away.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





True, but you'd definitely have to put MW into them before charging and hop the final rolls don't get spiked by an invuln. It's otherwise an easy 6 points if they have assassinate and abhor. I'll keep my mind open though.

   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





I don't know. I still think more rubric marine squads are better than more trall sorcerors.
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Art of War just interviewed Liam who went on a 18-0 streak with his Tsons list. Liam ran only 2 characters in the entire list. He didn't even run an Infernal Master.
   
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

What did he run?

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in pt
Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp




I checked that interview and it’s more interesting to understand his strategy and tactics than list composition.

Essentially it’s board control Rubrics, backed up with Rhinos, Spawn and a Terminator brick. Nothing fancy but extremely well-considered and constructed, and amply supported with some very underhanded tricks from Time Flux.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

How would a Land Raider fare as an alternative toa Rhino. With the 5++ is it viable? More flexible as it can take SoT as well as Rubrics? Decent anti-tank too?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dreadblade/
Chaos Knights - Ultramarines - Thousand Sons - Grey Knights 
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench




Bath

 dreadblade wrote:
How would a Land Raider fare as an alternative to a Rhino. With the 5++ is it viable? More flexible as it can take SoT as well as Rubrics? Decent anti-tank too?


it has the same problem it always has: it has two mostly incompatible jobs, both of which can be done cheaper by other units, and you pay a hefty premium for the "flexibility". its neither fish nor fowl but is expensive for just one of those.

transport wise, being able to carry termies isnt that big of a deal when the SoT can natively deep strike to get on a objective, and while two twin lascannons are decent AT, you could get that on 2 dreads for almost the same price, and have a more survivable solution to boot, or a lascannon predator for significantly less..

a rhino isnt amazing, but it does have a few things going for it:

its less than a 1/3 the points price of a LR, and cheap enough that if it gets blown up, its not really a big loss so long as it got its cargo on the point

its takes a dedicated transport slot, not a heavy support like a Raider, and using the Raider as a battle taxi means you;ve blocked off a heavy support slot you could potenailly use on something else.

A rhino full of rubrics is a target, but it can be overlooked or ignored in favour of a presumed greater threat. A Raider with termies inside is the single most juicy target in your army and will attract every shred of AT firepower the opponent can bring to bear.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/30 07:31:28


Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 1000pts
Western Host 1000 pts
 
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





To make the LR worth it for Tsons, you absolutely need to have a big plan for a squad of 5 occult terminators that you put into the LR. Because if its to transport rubric marines, then you might as well use the Rhino for one third the cost.

And so the question is, what's the big plan for that squad of occults? Is it to enable you to push them onto an objective?

The LR can also shoot decently, and it can even charge into combat and tie up stuff. I mean, its a fairly large model that shoots into combat. So, if doesn't really lose much effectiveness even if its locked in combat. So, you could actually use its large bulk to block up approaches. Some armies might have problems killing a T8 vehicle with 16 wounds that can pop smoke and has a 5++, 2+ save.

But if its just for its shooting, you might as well get other shooty stuff. You could get two triple ectoplasma cannon Forgefiends for just 310 points. And that's 6d3 AP 3, Damage 3 blast shots. And now you have 24 T7 wounds that regenerate each turn compared to 16 T8 wounds.

If you want to throw a vehicle into combat, a maulerfiend or a Mutalith or even a hellbrute is probably better. So really, its all about whether you can utilise its terminator transport capability, because that is the only really unique thing about the LR.

And its 300 points, so add the squad of terminators you put in it, you are putting over 500 points into this package. So it better achieve alot!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/30 13:13:38


 
   
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

Also, given its native 2+ Armor, it benefits less from the 5++.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in pl
Been Around the Block






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What did he run?


Ahriman on Disc
Exalted Sorcerer on disc
4x 10 Rubric marines
10 SOT
2x 5 Chaos Spawns
2x Chaos Rhino

11 Cabal Points
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Xyxel wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What did he run?


Ahriman on Disc
Exalted Sorcerer on disc
4x 10 Rubric marines
10 SOT
2x 5 Chaos Spawns
2x Chaos Rhino

11 Cabal Points


It's really worth listening to the first half of the podcast (I haven't listened to the second "premium" half yet). Despite the plethora of warlord traits and especially relics available to the TSons, his design philosophy is simple and he sticks to it religiously. TSons are good at being weirdly mobile and holding objectives, and so he builds his playstyle around that. He doesn't try including a killy Daemon Prince (for example) because, as he puts it, TSons just aren't that great at actually killing stuff, so you should play to their strengths instead (i.e., being annoying as hell to move off of objectives). That leads to picking stuff like Mutate Landscape, Raise the Banners, etc., that reward you for doing what you're already going to be doing anyway: taking and holding objectives. Presumably, if you really do need something dead, that's what Ahriman, the Spawn, and the SOTs are for (in fact, he's been so impressed by the SOTs that he's considering dropping some Rubrics and adding more SOTs to his list).
   
Made in gb
Sinister Chaos Marine




I've listened to the first half and the way he talked about the Rhinos and how he uses them is very cool. Although I was imagining trying to do the same at the extremely variable terrain setups I get at the tournaments I go to and shaking my head.

I would be interested to know what his win rate against various factions was/is. Has he been beating Dark Eldar and AdMech or getting lucky to avoid them? Which can happen. My last 10 tournament games have been 8 power armour factions, 1 necron, 1 (not dark) elf.
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





shogun wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 dreadblade wrote:
I thought Helldrakes were supposed to be good now too?


It's more vulnerable than it used to be, but I quite like it. If you go first it's very useful.


I played with one helldrake a few games and I'am removing it from my list. It either died to fast or didn't really earn back his points. Removing 5 ad mech infiltrators in cover still takes 3 turns and meanwhile the battle rages on and it is not contributing anything.

Something else, played against grey knights with my thousand sons:

- I got one contemptor with volkite blasters and missile launcher and I like the possibility to get an extra shooting attempt with the 'forewarning' stratagem. With a contemptor at one side and my terminators at the other flank I really got my deployment zone covered. Grey knights want to deepstrike/teleport close and that really gives a nice ' stay of my lawn' effect. I probably going to add two single spawn models so that I can close down my deployment zone against deep striking units.

- I really like the 10 terminator setup with cult of time. 3 wound models that could get a -1 damage in combination with reviving models, is really a pain for grey knights. You end up fighting a dreadknight on a objective and keep scoring and meanwhile the dreadknight loses more and more wounds.

- I also might keep the daemon prince instead of an exalted sorcerer... Against the dreadknights it is nice to have an extra close combat counter attack unit.

- Against grey knights, psychic powers are off course all over the place and that resulted in a lot of failed attempts for both of us. Both armies really need to know what the other can do so you can arrange the deny the witch attempts accordingly.

- I totally forgot that the reroll 1 aura only effects 'core' units now, so no reroll 1 for the daemon prince... lesson learned...


Just a tip about that inescapable forewarning strategem. Just like any other auspax scans, it is only activated during the reinforcement phase when they bring in stuff from deep strike. This strategem does NOT work when they teleport in a unit using their psychic spell like the old gate of eternity (forgot what the new psychic is called).

Similarly, any auspax scans type of shenanegans does NOT work against us if we are using either that Umbrelefic crystal (because that is activated during the command phase) or when we are using sorcerous facade to yeet something over because that is during the psychic phase. So, unless you are talking about deep strikes, that strategem is less useful than you think in a grey knights vs Tsons matchup.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
EightFoldPath wrote:
I've listened to the first half and the way he talked about the Rhinos and how he uses them is very cool. Although I was imagining trying to do the same at the extremely variable terrain setups I get at the tournaments I go to and shaking my head.

I would be interested to know what his win rate against various factions was/is. Has he been beating Dark Eldar and AdMech or getting lucky to avoid them? Which can happen. My last 10 tournament games have been 8 power armour factions, 1 necron, 1 (not dark) elf.


I listened to the first half as well. Really cool. And I imagine his Rhinos survive because there are just so many other stuff to worry about. Consider if you are the opponent. You have a big squad of 10 man occults that deals out deadly shooting, you have 4 squads of 10 man rubrics, you then have another 2 squads of 5 chaos spawn. Any one of these require a serious effort to remove even if they are open to be shot at. Given these, how much would he really devote into shooting two transports that have a 5++ and that can blow smoke for a -1 to hit ? Because if you fail to kill the Rhino, you just wasted a lot of shooting, and even if you did, the rubrics inside just pile out. The Rhino is not even obsec while the rubrics and Occults are. Also, bear in mind that if he keeps the relic Umbralefic crystal in his backpocket, then he has the option to yeet something over any time he really wants, and temporal surge is always a thing, so killing a Rhino may not actually accomplish that much.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/04 00:07:49


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Are you sure Forewarning does not work against the Crystal? I think it would.

The unit may be picked up in the Command phase but it is set up as a reinforcement at the end of the movement phase, which is the qualifier for the strat.
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Tremble wrote:
Are you sure Forewarning does not work against the Crystal? I think it would.

The unit may be picked up in the Command phase but it is set up as a reinforcement at the end of the movement phase, which is the qualifier for the strat.


Oh you are right. My bad. I usually just set the unit up in command phase so that I won't forget. I didn't realise it came in during the reinforcement phase. You are right. It works on the crystal. But not against the grey knight gate of eternity or our sorcerous facade.
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Played a game against Deathguard yesterday. Wow, Tsons are tough for Deathguard to handle. We played cagey using terrain for first two turns. But his PBC mortars just couldn't do much. They are swingy and I could pay 1 cp to make a rubric squad -1 to damage. He had problems even killing off one Rubric squad.

And the one PBC, one Lawnmower drone and the one Volkite contemptor that poked their heads out to shoot or to get one a center objective got destroyed.

Turn 3, he made a big play and charged in two squads of deathshroud, one Lawnmower drone and one squad of Blightlords (bulk of his army). He sort of wiffed. Then it was my turn. By the time my psychic and shooting ended, the Lawnmower Drone was dead, both Deathshroud squads were down to one terminator each and the Blightlord squad was down to three man, and everything was about to be counter charged by a full ten man Occult squad and a 5man chaos spawn squad.

He said (and I agree), that if he didn't make that big play and just hid behind obscuring, he would have eventually lost the game too.

MW are just so brutal against DG. All their high toughness, disgustingly resilient and even terminator armor is useless against MW.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/11/05 03:26:39


 
   
Made in us
Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch





 Xyxel wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What did he run?


Ahriman on Disc
Exalted Sorcerer on disc
4x 10 Rubric marines
10 SOT
2x 5 Chaos Spawns
2x Chaos Rhino

11 Cabal Points


Do the rubrics use flamers in this list or bolsters?
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 xeen wrote:
 Xyxel wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What did he run?


Ahriman on Disc
Exalted Sorcerer on disc
4x 10 Rubric marines
10 SOT
2x 5 Chaos Spawns
2x Chaos Rhino

11 Cabal Points


Do the rubrics use flamers in this list or bolsters?
I believe no flamers, just bolters and a Soulreaper
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Need tips and advice!

I am playing a Tyranids player in my next game. This is my first time playing against the new Nids. In fact, its the first time I am playing against Tyranids period. So, I am a total newbie against this army.

He will be Leviathan (of course because all the new rules from the new Octarious book), fielding two big squads of Hive Guard, the Swarmlord, Neurothrope, Broodlord, a max unit of genestealers, 3 min squads of gaunts, two squads of Tyranid warriors, 2 lictors and a Maleceptor.

My list will be 2 exalted sorcerors on foot, an Infernal master, 6 barebones Rubric Marine squads, a Rhino, a 10 man occult termi squad, 2 x 5 chaos spawn units, 3 x Hellbrutes (plasma cannon and missile launcher).

Should I be aggressive? Or play my usual game, which is more defensive. For a Tyranids list, he doesn't look like he has that much scary melee actually, only Swarmlord and the genestealers, and maybe that Maleceptor?

I heard that if I can tag the hiveguard, I can negate them. But of course the problem will be that he might have his whole army around the hiveguard, so trying to tag it might mean having to go through his entire army.

I don't think I should bother with the lictors. They are so cheap and probably for something like ROD. I doubt if I can screen so much I stop a one model deep striker from coming in. Not unless I clump my entire army in my deployment zone and stay there the whole game, and I let his hive guard blast me to bits for 5 turns.

Staying in cover seems pointless too, since hive guard ignore cover and shoot out of line of sight. We are playing on the Orlando style GW terrain layout. (4 huge square area terrain pieces, etc).

My army isn't great in melee. But like I said, I can just tag him, I don't have to kill him in melee. And while not great, they are fine going into gaunts. (I don't know about nid warriors though and the big genestealer unit and swarm lord and Maleceptor might be a problem). The other option is to just try and have a shoot out and MW spell exchange. But He can hide behind cover, while I can't.

Also, which kind of secondaries would be best for such a game? We are playing Priority Target, so its a 5 objective mission map.

Priority target is often picked by both sides. I suppose I will pick that too. With my army, I am looking at either mutate landscape or wrath of Magnus (because he has psykers too). So, which is better? I will definitely pick one of these two.

The third one is a bit tricky. I could take raise banners and try and aggressively push forward. If I can get banners on 3 objectives early, and not let them fall I could get decent points (provided my army still has some models left by turn 5).

I could also take stranglehold if I am already trying for a more aggressive strategy. I kind of like this because it would make it a more interesting game instead of just me hunkering down and waiting to get shot up by his hive guard.

Also, what to do with my 3 Hellbrutes in the game? I usually clump them together around an exalted sorceror to give them reroll 1s. But in this game, I was thinking of splitting them up on my back two back objectives. They can add some more tough wounds on my back objectives which would make it harder for him to blast me off my 2 back objectives because they are -1 damage with a 5++. I mean, I doubt he will let me even see his hive guard, and I got bolters aplenty for everything else.

Finally, how should I handle the Maleceptor? Just tag it in combat and leave it? I don't know how dangerous it is really.

So, tips and advice would be much much appreciated! Thanks !!!!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/07 02:14:14


 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Spoiler:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
Need tips and advice!

I am playing a Tyranids player in my next game. This is my first time playing against the new Nids. In fact, its the first time I am playing against Tyranids period. So, I am a total newbie against this army.

He will be Leviathan (of course because all the new rules from the new Octarious book), fielding two big squads of Hive Guard, the Swarmlord, Neurothrope, Broodlord, a max unit of genestealers, 3 min squads of gaunts, two squads of Tyranid warriors, 2 lictors and a Maleceptor.

My list will be 2 exalted sorcerors on foot, an Infernal master, 6 barebones Rubric Marine squads, a Rhino, a 10 man occult termi squad, 2 x 5 chaos spawn units, 3 x Hellbrutes (plasma cannon and missile launcher).

Should I be aggressive? Or play my usual game, which is more defensive. For a Tyranids list, he doesn't look like he has that much scary melee actually, only Swarmlord and the genestealers, and maybe that Maleceptor?

I heard that if I can tag the hiveguard, I can negate them. But of course the problem will be that he might have his whole army around the hiveguard, so trying to tag it might mean having to go through his entire army.

I don't think I should bother with the lictors. They are so cheap and probably for something like ROD. I doubt if I can screen so much I stop a one model deep striker from coming in. Not unless I clump my entire army in my deployment zone and stay there the whole game, and I let his hive guard blast me to bits for 5 turns.

Staying in cover seems pointless too, since hive guard ignore cover and shoot out of line of sight. We are playing on the Orlando style GW terrain layout. (4 huge square area terrain pieces, etc).

My army isn't great in melee. But like I said, I can just tag him, I don't have to kill him in melee. And while not great, they are fine going into gaunts. (I don't know about nid warriors though and the big genestealer unit and swarm lord and Maleceptor might be a problem). The other option is to just try and have a shoot out and MW spell exchange. But He can hide behind cover, while I can't.

Also, which kind of secondaries would be best for such a game? We are playing Priority Target, so its a 5 objective mission map.

Priority target is often picked by both sides. I suppose I will pick that too. With my army, I am looking at either mutate landscape or wrath of Magnus (because he has psykers too). So, which is better? I will definitely pick one of these two.

The third one is a bit tricky. I could take raise banners and try and aggressively push forward. If I can get banners on 3 objectives early, and not let them fall I could get decent points (provided my army still has some models left by turn 5).

I could also take stranglehold if I am already trying for a more aggressive strategy. I kind of like this because it would make it a more interesting game instead of just me hunkering down and waiting to get shot up by his hive guard.

Also, what to do with my 3 Hellbrutes in the game? I usually clump them together around an exalted sorceror to give them reroll 1s. But in this game, I was thinking of splitting them up on my back two back objectives. They can add some more tough wounds on my back objectives which would make it harder for him to blast me off my 2 back objectives because they are -1 damage with a 5++. I mean, I doubt he will let me even see his hive guard, and I got bolters aplenty for everything else.

Finally, how should I handle the Maleceptor? Just tag it in combat and leave it? I don't know how dangerous it is really.

So, tips and advice would be much much appreciated! Thanks !!!!


Don't know about all the octarious rules but I think you got to fight it out on the objectives. You don't need all objectives just more than the opponent.

With the tyranid blood of baal rules he can still give the hive guards ignore -1 and -2 ap so shooting with bolters doesn't really work against them.
Maleceptor is not scary but it can give every unit within 6 inch " -1 Strength shooting hits" with stratagem.
Swarmlord can give a unit an extra move in the shooting phase so thats going to be the genestealers or the swarmlord himself.

I think you need to move forward with the spawns at the front, and also the "speedbumb" rhino. You got to take the incoming assault and punish them afterwards.The terminator squad is your best unit and reserve the command points to give them -1 damage and +1 to wound. 10 terminators with +1 Strength from the infernal master and +1 to wound from the stratagem removes anything with warpflame bolters. Terminators with -1 damage and -1 to hit (Glamour of Tzeentch) and maybe even a 4++ inv save are a pain for the tyranids. With 'all is dust' even genestealer rending claws are not that scary.

If you can spare the command points you might consider using the super deny the witch stratagem to counter that 5+ feel no pain psychic power (at the right moment).

Also with shadow in the warp (-1 psychic test within range of a synapse creature) and the amount of tyranid deny the witch options, you got to commit with the psychic powers you really need and use the bonus Cabalistic ritual points to make that happen.

If you can heal the terminators (cult of time?) you might also consider the "survive with the 3 most expensive units" secondary objectives. Then the terminators and sorcerers need to survive.
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener





Against nids you have to worry about their anti psyker stuff. they always have psykers to deny the witch, a -1 to cast negates yours. and if they have kronos they can make you only roll 1d6 and for the right CP/WL combo every failed check you make can be 2d3 mortal wounds.

find a way to engage the hive guard as fast as possible. they are your hard counter.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





dreadlybrew wrote:
Against nids you have to worry about their anti psyker stuff. they always have psykers to deny the witch, a -1 to cast negates yours. and if they have kronos they can make you only roll 1d6 and for the right CP/WL combo every failed check you make can be 2d3 mortal wounds.

find a way to engage the hive guard as fast as possible. they are your hard counter.


And with this in mind mutate might be harder than wrath of magnus if he at least has smaller models you can pick off easily in the early game. It will be harder to stop multiple smites than a single psychic action -- unless you devote cabal points to making that auto-pass.

So check his available options before choosing the secondary.

   
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Long-Range Black Templar Land Speeder Pilot






Any recommendations on generic secondaries for Thousand Sons at 1000pts?

My army is typically Ahriman, 2 squads of Rubrics and 2 squads of SOC. I usually take one secondary from the Codex but I never quite know which to pick for my other two secondaries. I've had some luck with WWSWF / To the Last in about half the games I've played.
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener





1000 pts you might want to consider dropping a 5 man SOT to 2 5 man Rubrics, arihman isnt better than an exalted sorc and a regular sorc/infernal master.

you need action economy at that points level.

take mutate landscape and save it for your last cast so you free cast all the pain.
   
 
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