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I know there are a lot of 30k armies out there that were built using only Forgeworld. Do people who had to do it the hard way frown upon those who use the BaC set? I am still going to need a lot of stuff from Forgeworld but I worry that I may be looked down upon. The 30k community reminds me a lot of the old WHF community and I really dig the vibe. I want to deck out a great army and bring it to one of these big events like LVO or BAO.

I think people would only have a grudge against it when people use BaC fir legions that didnt have a lot of MKIV power armour (Death Guard, Iron Warriors, Imperial Fists, ect)
Whereas legions that used MKIV power armour (Word Bearers, Ultramarines, Alpha Legion, Raven Guard (before they got beakie armour) ect) no one would hate against, as it is fluffy

commander dante wrote:
I think people would only have a grudge against it when people use BaC fir legions that didnt have a lot of MKIV power armour (Death Guard, Iron Warriors, Imperial Fists, ect)
Whereas legions that used MKIV power armour (Word Bearers, Ultramarines, Alpha Legion, Raven Guard (before they got beakie armour) ect) no one would hate against, as it is fluffy

I was thinking Iron (Hands or Warriors). I guess it's Forgeworld for IH MkIII. To be fair, MkIII is awesome looking. Slow and steady wins the race right?

Bear in mind that these Legions number in the hundreds of thousands, so even of only 10% of a Legion has MkIV armour, that's 10k Marines and thus a force of 60-80 like you'd have in a game is not at all unlikely.

My salamanders were built using pure FW mkIII armour.
I have no issue at all with BaC as I feel it's got more players into 30k.

I'm planning on using some myself for a night lords force at some stage.

Most 30k players I've met tend to be fluffy, so get annoyed when people break the well-established fluff - White Scars using Dreadnoughts, for example.

I play Iron Hands and while most of my army is FW resin, I do have BaC - flufff wise the MK4 marines are either new recruits or in squads that need the mobility.

Not everyone can afford a full forgeworld army of marines.

Now you can have bac as bulk then use mk3 etc and others as your specialist units.

You can get 30 marines, 5 termies, 2 hq and a dread for what, one forge world 20 man squad... Plus th e bac army will grow and add units and the more fluffy ones as time goes on.

beast_gts wrote:
Most 30k players I've met tend to be fluffy, so get annoyed when people break the well-established fluff - White Scars using Dreadnoughts, for example.

White Scars Dreadnoughts are a thing. Much like Iron Warriors Assault Marines, they are not common but they are very much there.

Take a peek at the WD with which GW released the original Death from the Skies. You may find a certain large, white friend who dreads nought...

 Ashiraya wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
Most 30k players I've met tend to be fluffy, so get annoyed when people break the well-established fluff - White Scars using Dreadnoughts, for example.

White Scars Dreadnoughts are a thing. Much like Iron Warriors Assault Marines, they are not common but they are very much there.

Take a peek at the WD with which GW released the original Death from the Skies. You may find a certain large, white friend who dreads nought...

Can you remember the number of that WD? The original (admittedly, old) fluff was that being entombed in a Dreadnought went against Chogorian belief\religion.

The one where the Dakkajet and Stormtalon were first released. They used the Assault on Black Reach set, IIRC.

White Dwarf UK #390, from what I can see. May 2012.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
The one where the Dakkajet and Stormtalon were first released. They used the Assault on Black Reach set, IIRC.

White Dwarf UK #390, from what I can see. May 2012.

That does indeed look like a White Scars Dreadnought. Time to wind up some White Scar players... ;-)

I too noticed that white scars dread. As a white scars player of ~15 years I have to admit it annoyed me somewhat.

 edbradders wrote:
I too noticed that white scars dread. As a white scars player of ~15 years I have to admit it annoyed me somewhat.

Just noticed that their org chart in Angels of Death has Dreadnoughts listed as well....


Back on topic: As Ashiraya said, all Legions at some point used all the units/equipment open to them. Terran-born White Scars might have had dreadnoughts pre-Jaghatai Khan...

I don't mind the new forces. I get annoyed when people take the troops and don't build 30k armies and just use them to build more 40k marines, grrr.

As to the dreadnought, in 30k every legion had everything in it. There are Night Lord heavy armor battalions complete with super-heavies. Its not hard to imagine that White Scars also have super heavy battalions and entire units of dreadnoughts. They also would have breacher and destroyer units and the means to siege a fortress, even though that's the domain normally assigned to IW and IF.

Not every scar rides a bike.

All of my marines are lead mark 6 with moulded bases and painted using pigments distilled from my own blood and the tears of narwhals. I get annoyed if people 'cheat' by using plastic miniatures and so called 'citadel colours' as paints...

commander dante wrote:
I think people would only have a grudge against it when people use BaC fir legions that didnt have a lot of MKIV power armour (Death Guard, Iron Warriors, Imperial Fists, ect)
Whereas legions that used MKIV power armour (Word Bearers, Ultramarines, Alpha Legion, Raven Guard (before they got beakie armour) ect) no one would hate against, as it is fluffy

If people do have a grudge against that it's silly. All legions would have had access to MkIV armour in some capacity.

Personally I'm old school, the original armour fluff article from WD129 is still one of my favourite bits of 40k writing: it was both comprehensive and well thought out. All we've gotten since then is contradictory snippets from people not looking at the big picture. When people say "what about Legions that didn't use MkIV" they almost always mean "Legions that used MkIII", and the original fluff outright stated that no space marine force was ever equipped solely with MkIII: it was poor schmuck armour, like the titanium faceplates the Russians issue to the poor schmuck who has to go through the door first in urban operations. There are no poor schmuck legions.

Median Trace wrote:
I know there are a lot of 30k armies out there that were built using only Forgeworld. Do people who had to do it the hard way frown upon those who use the BaC set? I am still going to need a lot of stuff from Forgeworld but I worry that I may be looked down upon. The 30k community reminds me a lot of the old WHF community and I really dig the vibe. I want to deck out a great army and bring it to one of these big events like LVO or BAO.

I wasn't interested in BaC because it's MKIV, and I prefer MKIII. I don't look down on anyone that uses them, though. The models are nicely done and fit the Crusade Era and HH Era look just fine. I care not that they are 50% or more cheaper than my MKIII.

If another set comes out featuring MKIII, I'll buy it and not be pissed off about how much my stuff costed me. I have gotten my money's worth from the FW minis so far.

If anyone bitches about the BaC being so cheap, I just have to wonder what is wrong with them. Cheaper models, nicely done, get more people into the HH gaming. That's what you want. Opponents!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ashiraya wrote:

Take a peek at the WD with which GW released the original Death from the Skies. You may find a certain large, white friend who dreads nought...

...and it annoyed the gak out of fluffy White Scars players when it came out. If they came out with Blanton, the Black Templar Librarian next month, I'd be pissed, too.


What is your point?

Id love plastic mk3

Id like some but its so expensive.

No, it's not "cheat mode" to use miniatures made for Horus Heresy in games of Horus Heresy.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
No, it's not "cheat mode" to use miniatures made for Horus Heresy in games of Horus Heresy.

Point of order! They were made for Horus Heresy: Betrayal at Calth board game, not the Forge World Horus Heresy 30k supplements!

Which is why Forge World just so happens to have bundles listed on their website to customize the miniatures for a single unified Legion. Just in case you want to get a little crazy with your boardgame miniatures.

 kronk wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
No, it's not "cheat mode" to use miniatures made for Horus Heresy in games of Horus Heresy.

Point of order! They were made for Horus Heresy: Betrayal at Calth board game, not the Forge World Horus Heresy 30k supplements!

From the GW site: 'The included miniatures can be painted to represent any Space Marine chapter with any weapon combination you like - you’re not bound by the game at all!'

...I never understand why people view this as 'cheating'. I never understand why players cannot see the inherent flaws in a viewpoint that is not only financially motivated (I have money, I bought FW) but also horrendously elitist (peasant, do not play 30k).

I mean, at the end of the day BaC opened 30k up to a lot more people. Locally this has only had the result of making the 30k community stronger - it means more opponents, more interesting takes on the Legions and ultimately more pooled resources if a group wants to do a large or themed game.

The local gaming club literally went from 3-4 30k players to a pool of between 10-12. And as the guy who organised our first local 30k tournament said...

Even though the vast majority of people have the same 'core' army (BaC) there was so much variety in army design that it was incredible.

I mean, is that what people were afraid of? All these new players - a fear of everyone ending up with the same carbon copy army? Because that didn't happen.

We had a single player who built around the Tactical Veterans and Terminators - he was playing Iron Hands.

We had a lot of Fire Support and Heavy Support squads coming about.

We had my Death Guard infantry/dread blob.

The tournament had so many Legions represented - Blood Angels, Iron Hands, Raven Guard, Iron Warriors, Emperor's Children, World Eaters, Death Guard - all from the same 'base' set as a core.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
...I never understand why people view this as 'cheating'. I never understand why players cannot see the inherent flaws in a viewpoint that is not only financially motivated (I have money, I bought FW) but also horrendously elitist (peasant, do not play 30k).

I mean, at the end of the day BaC opened 30k up to a lot more people. Locally this has only had the result of making the 30k community stronger - it means more opponents, more interesting takes on the Legions and ultimately more pooled resources if a group wants to do a large or themed game.

The local gaming club literally went from 3-4 30k players to a pool of between 10-12. And as the guy who organised our first local 30k tournament said...

Even though the vast majority of people have the same 'core' army (BaC) there was so much variety in army design that it was incredible.

I mean, is that what people were afraid of? All these new players - a fear of everyone ending up with the same carbon copy army? Because that didn't happen.

We had a single player who built around the Tactical Veterans and Terminators - he was playing Iron Hands.

We had a lot of Fire Support and Heavy Support squads coming about.

We had my Death Guard infantry/dread blob.

The tournament had so many Legions represented - Blood Angels, Iron Hands, Raven Guard, Iron Warriors, Emperor's Children, World Eaters, Death Guard - all from the same 'base' set as a core.

I think a large portion of the dislike of calth comes from 2 things: 1) The rather large influx of 'What is the Best X option, I only wanna bring the best' mentality that popped up when Calth was released, and 2) the rather large number of 'Calth only' armies that popped up. I don't have any issue with Calth (I bought 2, and split a bunch more ), but I can see where people are coming from. Personally, my only issue with Calth is the fact that it doesn't really fit the aesthetic of certain legions (Iron hands, Death Guard, Iron Warriors, and Salamanders to name a few). If plastic MK III came out, I'd be all over that

There was also the strange influx of new players wanting to do a 40k chapter in the Horus Heresy setting too after it was released. But that's neither here nor there.

Well I will be honest, I am starting my first 30k Army(Iron Hands), and am using the BaC kit as a starting point(My nearest shop is about 30-40 minutes away) and they have a hard time with getting stuff from FW. However I do plan on buying Mk III and mixing it into my tactical squads to make it as though some of them got newer armor, as well as making all my Vet Tacticals with Mk III bc Veterans... but I don't want to be looked down upon for that. lol

Why would anyone hate on BaC? It's all 30k stuff and Era appoperiate. Heck even people who did it "hard mode" are using it to help fill out armies for higher point games.

I'm building Emperor's Children.

Come at me!

I bought BaC, and at some point when I've finished up all my 40k armies I just might start a 30k army. In the meantime all those lovely mk4 marines will do just nicely in my Ultramarines army. It irritates me that some people look down on using those guys in a 40k army. Sure, a chapter might not have that many intact suit of mk4 armor, but it's a bunch of models for fairly cheap (at least, by prior GW standards)