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Seems to be the case.
I went against a Tau chap yesterday, played 2 games; 1250 & 750, and thrashed him in both, my Kastelan robots (1st game) and Domitar Deathstar (2nd game) really shining.

First game, I decided to try out the Elimination Maniple for the first time, and to also practice Deepstriking Malagra magos, so I roll up with 6 Kataphrons, 4 Robots, 2 Datasmiths, and a Magos.
Then I see what he's got, and my heart sinks: A Riptide, Stormsurge, Commander, Broadside, Farsight, and 10 Firewarriors.
(Magos got one-shot after deepstriking him in, so he didn't actually get to do anything)

I was pretty sure I'd get ruined, being a 6x4 board and deploying in corners. I had to get up to the pipeline through the middle of the boardwidth just to get my Kataphrons in range of his bunker.
Now him being a numpty, didn't move his suits back a bit, so I could stay on my side of the pipe, and leave 2 of my robots in a crater. Stormsurge was still out of range, though, but I was able to utterly obliterate his Commander and Riptide, one by one, only using 3 Kataphrons and 3 Robots.
Incidentally, the first git I kill happens to be his only guy for Markerlight support, so that was nice.

Him still being a numpty, didn't shoot my Kataphrons at the pipe until turn 4, and instead kept trying to shoot my Kastelans. I'm assuming the logic was "They're what's making the Kataphrons so scary; better get rid of them", but either way, the bots would've eventually chipped him to pieces, leaving me to camp objectives,
(Ended up doing a grand retreat into cover after turn 4, seeing as I didn't want to cross the pipe to kill the Stormsurge. Turned out to be a damn good move indeed).

Anyway, sadly the Broadside didn't manage to one-shot itself by getting a repel from the Kastelans, but either way, too many of his guns were wounding them on 6's.
The only things he had that were a real threat was a strength 10 ordnance cannon on the Stormsurge, and the Broadside's railgun.

He essentially fielded the same thing in the 2nd game, bar the Broadside and Commander, but just couldn't do squat to my Domitar. (4x4 board this time)
(I did give him the option to face something else; the 750 game was totally unplanned anyway, so had to use a list made of what models were in my 1250)
Just marched them up the middle of the board, sustained 4 wounds, but repaired 2 of them. (Dominus with a Machinator array, + Warlord trait that gives his unit IWND, mhm) then slapped the suits to death in CC.
He didn't even make an attempt to run to another corner, although that's partly due to his main chance of winning being his Stormsurge stomping them, and a dash of luck.

He did have time to scour his codex for anything to deal with my robots, but he didn't pull out anything in the 2nd game, so that has me wondering if the Tau can actually deal with Robots.
Surely they have something?

So, this thread again?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/693385.page

 Azreal13 wrote:
So, this thread again?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/693385.page

- New player tries out something for the first time.
- Finds it to be absurdly effective.
- Bewildered as to why.
- Asks a community that probably has the answer to the question: "Why?"

Then yes, it is essentially /that thread again/, although this time, I've tried to avoid any wording that would have me accused of being a List Tailor. (Even though it's about a competitive match).
Perhaps I want to know if Robots are a solid counter against Tau, so that I don't go ramming them down my opponent's throat next time. I'm likely to do so otherwise; my Robots are my favourite units.

I've provided context for why I have this question, not to brag about my wins.

He sounds like a bad player and his list is fairly casual all things considered. Similar to what I was running at one point and it was one of the worst lists I could make to give terrible players a shot.

Hell I wasn't even using the SS in it at one point.

Edit
Holy hell he took broadside railguns. The worst weapon in our codex for its point cost more so on the broadsides.

Sir, I applaud your use of the word 'numpty'.

You're playing a 30k army. 30k isn't suppose to be played with 40k

 CrownAxe wrote:
You're playing a 30k army. 30k isn't suppose to be played with 40k

I've had the Shopkeep/Tournament host's blessing to use my 30k stuff.
So far, they've turned out mostly UP, with this 750 game being the only OP circumstance. (Deathstar vs ill-equipped is going to go that way anyway).
I was using 3 Domitar with a maxed-out Dominus for Smithy work, that's it.

Your armies weren't legal. You are mixing armies that are not allowed to be mixed.

 Buddingsquaw wrote:
I've had the Shopkeep/Tournament host's blessing to use my 30k stuff.

'My TO allows me to cheat. Wow, Tau really struggle with my cheat list.'

I am not sure what you expect us to say.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Your armies weren't legal. You are mixing armies that are not allowed to be mixed.

All of us in the league are allowed to take whatever the heck we want, bound or unbound, as long as the primary is the same faction as what we entered with.
There's been plenty of questions asked about me using 30k stuff, and I'm not the only one doing it.
First thing I ask when I meet my opponent is "Are you ok with me using 30k stuff?", and so far, everyone has said yes.

I am not sure what difference that makes?

If you allow me to use a gun in a fistfight and thus permit me to cheat, it doesn't mean anyone will admire my fistfighting skills when you proceed to bleed out on the street.

It's technically not cheating, but it still goes beyond the norm of what people expects in a 40k game, as there were SEVERAL exceptions not made known to us from the beginning.

For example, I have little knowledge of Heresy stuff or Ad-Mechs, so I had assumed all of this was from the Ad-Mech Cult Mechanicus codex. I didn't know you were effectively running an unbound army with units from two different books designed for two different game systems.

Even then though, it sounds more like your opponent was trying to play the models he wanted rather than go balls-out against you. If I had to destroy a list like this, I'd just go with a few Battlesuits armed with Plasma Rifles for the Robots and Kataphrons with heavy armor, while using missile pods for the Kataphrons with low armor. Some Marker light support would round out the army so I can use Jump-Shoot-Jump Shenanigans to mitigate your range superiority and negate any cover saves against my weapons. I'm sure an actual Tau player can come up with an even more effective counter.

EDIT: Also, this type of thread generally goes into the "Tactics" forum, as that forum was specifically designed to talk about unit performance and battlefield tactics. The Discussion forum is generally used for anything not related to the other ones, which usually is where a lot of the rage threads or bragging threads end up.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
-snip-

EDIT: Also, this type of thread generally goes into the "Tactics" forum, as that forum was specifically designed to talk about unit performance and battlefield tactics. The Discussion forum is generally used for anything not related to the other ones, which usually is where a lot of the rage threads or bragging threads end up.

Oh right, ok. I put it here thinking "General discussion about Tau's ability to deal with MC's".

Wait did you mix 30 and 40k in the same list?

I ... well... what did you expect?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Wait did you mix 30 and 40k in the same list?

I ... well... what did you expect?

Current trends being I'd lose.
In fact, only 2/7 games where I've used 30k stuff have been a win.
(Not counting this 1250, because the Magos might aswell've not been there).

Either way, my 30k guy- the Archmagos- Didn't get to do a damn thing.
2nd game was kind've a pisstake, though (but an unexpected one at that). I could've been deliberately horrible and used Arlatax instead of Domitar.
Still plenty of opportunity given to my opponent to say "No.", or to find some way of dealing with it.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
It's technically not cheating, but it still goes beyond the norm of what people expects in a 40k game, as there were SEVERAL exceptions not made known to us from the beginning.

For example, I have little knowledge of Heresy stuff or Ad-Mechs, so I had assumed all of this was from the Ad-Mech Cult Mechanicus codex. I didn't know you were effectively running an unbound army with units from two different books designed for two different game systems.

Even then though, it sounds more like your opponent was trying to play the models he wanted rather than go balls-out against you. If I had to destroy a list like this, I'd just go with a few Battlesuits armed with Plasma Rifles for the Robots and Kataphrons with heavy armor, while using missile pods for the Kataphrons with low armor. Some Marker light support would round out the army so I can use Jump-Shoot-Jump Shenanigans to mitigate your range superiority and negate any cover saves against my weapons. I'm sure an actual Tau player can come up with an even more effective counter.

EDIT: Also, this type of thread generally goes into the "Tactics" forum, as that forum was specifically designed to talk about unit performance and battlefield tactics. The Discussion forum is generally used for anything not related to the other ones, which usually is where a lot of the rage threads or bragging threads end up.

Indeed I had no idea as well. I'm not familiar with AdMech I assumed he was talking about the 40k guys. I stand by what I said though. Unless 30k is leagues beyond normal 40k in power levels which I usually hear the ITC folks say its actually weaker then a good Tau list would disimantle it. It sounds like he was playing a list he just liked the look of.

30k and 40k really are a bad match full stop.

While people are willing to play against my mechanicum, its usually fairly one sided throughout the battle.

30k units tend to be alot stronger in terms of points and do plenty of damage.
More so when your able to run a unit of 3 T8 thanatars.

That and no restrictions on LoW choices mean you can run a Saggitar or ulator in basic games, which is more than slightly broken.



All this mixed with playing a weak list naturally results in you rolling over them with ease.

In an effort to get a straight forward answer, ignoring all the 30k doodah:
(I'll still iterate my point, though: My 30k stuff so far has either felt perfectly balanced, or under powered: Never over powered, but that's ignoring high-point shenanigans with Macro Engines and proper Cybernetica and Reductor lists, of which I've not used)

Just focusing on the 1st game, where I might aswell have been using just my Cult stuff in the first place /because the only 30k in that was the one-shotted Magos/, do Tau genuinely struggle to take out Kastelan Robots, and other similarly tough MC's, or did this guy's list just suck, full stop?
Or maybe a bit of both?

 Gamgee wrote:
He sounds like a bad player and his list is fairly casual all things considered. Similar to what I was running at one point and it was one of the worst lists I could make to give terrible players a shot.

Hell I wasn't even using the SS in it at one point.

Edit
Holy hell he took broadside railguns. The worst weapon in our codex for its point cost more so on the broadsides.

If you consider both a stormsurge and a riptide in a 1250 point game "casual," then we clearly have very different understandings of what what word means.

Like I said, Battlesuits and Plasma Rifles backed by marker lights would be a decent matchup for the Robots. Missile Pods would eat low-armored Kataphrons for breakfast. In both cases the suits, lights and weapons would cost far less than the units you took.

Gamgee would probably laugh at what I recommend before coming up with an even more cost-efficient method.

Also his list didn't necessarily "suck". No list is completely perfect against everything (only TAC lists would not have a glaring flaw, and they get that by being at best "meh" in everything). I would need to know what weapons he had, but it seems like you ran an army consisting almost entirely of medium-to-high toughness multi-wound models (from what you described, you had exactly two models in your entire army that didn't fit that criteria), and he didn't have a lot of weapons that could either reliably wound or force saves, while you had weapons that could do that against his high-toughness, multi-wound models (not accusing you of list tailoring, just that those units have weapons that are naturally good against these particular targets).

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Like I said, Battlesuits and Plasma Rifles backed by marker lights would be a decent matchup for the Robots. Missile Pods would eat low-armored Kataphrons for breakfast. In both cases the suits, lights and weapons would cost far less than the units you took.

-snip I would need to know what weapons he had,-snip

His Stormsurge had 2 bouts on some S-10 Nova charged large blast cannon jobby, and a Missile pod you roll 4D6 for the number of shots. Can't quite remember what his Riptide had, although I recall it was a 4 shot thing.

If that is the missile pod you're thinking of, and given what he did to two of my Kataphrons once he decided to shoot the buggers, then I'm acertained that part of his demise was definitely due to strategic error.

In both my American club and my UK club 40k has been roundly stomping 30k because of Formations and no Lord of War restrictions.

However, mixing the two I would consider a big no-no, especially if you consider them battlebrothers - Mechanicum units are not balanced with the sheer capability of Mechanicus repairs, for example.

I meant the Missile Pods attached to basic Battlesuits. The Cluster Rocket Pods and Smart Missile System on the Stormsurge are nowhere close to effective against Kataphrons, since it has lower strength and cannot bypass their armor, even the lighter Kataphrons.

The ones on the battlesuit, however, are instead autocannons that can be fired on the move (literally, they fire the same number of shots, have the same strength and AP as autocannons, and only changes from Heavy to Assault for a minor range penalty). They would be wounding Kataphrons on a 2+ and ignore the Kataphron Destroyer's armor. Markerlights would give them improved Ballistic Skill and Ignore Cover, while they're also cheap enough that he could make a single unit of 3 battlesuits spew out 12 of those shots per turn for under the cost of the Kataphron Destroyer's base cost.

 Buddingsquaw wrote:
All of us in the league are allowed to take whatever the heck we want, bound or unbound, as long as the primary is the same faction as what we entered with.

OK, fair enough. Does your league allow Warhounds? If you guys are that loosey-goosey, that's what I'd recommend for 750 pts.

The fact that he mixed 30k in 40K isn't an issue as in most cases 40K overpowers and kicks the crap out of 30k especially in the case of playing one of the legions. He'll even my Imperial Guard in 40K trounced a couple Horus heresy armies just this past weekend, it's really not that big a deal. And let's face it he was bringing a storm surge at a 1250 point game? Well played and a good win, ignore people hating on you for using 30k as it is quite underpowered most of the time against 40K armies. I actually also think FW released rules to allow Legions at least to be played in games of 40K if I remember correctly.

 gmaleron wrote:
The fact that he mixed 30k in 40K isn't an issue as in most cases 40K overpowers and kicks the crap out of 30k especially in the case of playing one of the legions. He'll even my Imperial Guard in 40K trounced a couple Horus heresy armies just this past weekend, it's really not that big a deal. And let's face it he was bringing a storm surge at a 1250 point game? Well played and a good win, ignore people hating on you for using 30k as it is quite underpowered most of the time against 40K armies. I actually also think FW released rules to allow Legions at least to be played in games of 40K if I remember correctly.

Mhm, thanks for that.
And yes, it's mentioned and explained a few times in the red books that the 30k stuff can be played in normal 40k
Quoting the first sentence of the foreword in my Taghmata book:
"This book contains [stuff] for the core Mechanicum Taghmata army list for Warhammer 40,000 and the Battles in the Age of Darkness [HH] gaming expansion."

Wait, let me get this straight...skitarii, admech and the like are 30k? I have been fighting 2 guys with these armies and losing. They keep telling me to learn how to play noob after rofl stomp me.

Grief wrote:
Wait, let me get this straight...skitarii, admech and the like are 30k? I have been fighting 2 guys with these armies and losing. They keep telling me to learn how to play noob after rofl stomp me.

No. Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus are 40k armies. Adeptus Mechanicus is a 30k army.

 CrownAxe wrote:

Grief wrote:
Wait, let me get this straight...skitarii, admech and the like are 30k? I have been fighting 2 guys with these armies and losing. They keep telling me to learn how to play noob after rofl stomp me.

No. Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus are 40k armies. Adeptus Mechanicus is a 30k army.

The 30k version is called Mechanicum; specifically the equivalents to Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus are Ordo Reductor, Legio Cybernetica and Taghmata Omnissiah.