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I thought it might be a cool thing to read about what you guys think would happen if the starter sets face each other.

Please give examples of who fights and how faceoffs would go down and lets have some fun discussion!

The Space Wolves Start Collecting Pack is awesome for beginners. All you need additionally is a Drop Pod and another Thunderwolf and you get a decent force of 500 - 750 pts. I think it would work quite well against the other formations. I'd be interested seing them face Tau or Skitarii.

I think, competitively, the Tyranid one is best against other boxes. A flyrant is very hard for many armies to handle. It'll certainly crush the SM, CSM, Scions, SW, and more boxes. Skitarii has a chance with the Onager of it's AA though

Ever-returning necron warriors and scarabs. Enough said.

So what units attack what if sw vs tau then?

And what happens when necrons fight tyranids?

Remember, box content only.

of the getting started boxes the tyranids win hands down. nothing in the other boxes can match a hive tyrant. That said as a whole the tyranids are not a to p tier army and need come work so if this is some kind of league only using starter sets go for it, otherwise if it is to start a new army then the wolves or necrons would probably be a better choice.

note the only reason is no other box can deal with a T6 flying MC reliably

It is not to start an army it is just for the fun of discussion.

So what happens if the crons kill all the other nids and then what?

Hawehu@hotmail.com wrote:
It is not to start an army it is just for the fun of discussion.

So what happens if the crons kill all the other nids and then what?

Well they probably could, but I'm betting that over a 5 turn game a Flyrant will whipe out the Crons "Get started" box to be honest.

 G00fySmiley wrote:
of the getting started boxes the tyranids win hands down. nothing in the other boxes can match a hive tyrant. That said as a whole the tyranids are not a to p tier army and need come work so if this is some kind of league only using starter sets go for it, otherwise if it is to start a new army then the wolves or necrons would probably be a better choice.

note the only reason is no other box can deal with a T6 flying MC reliably

The only box that has a legitimate chance of wrecking a Flyrant is the Mechanicus thanks to the Onager and it's gunbattery of skyfire. Everything else though is probably just gonna get shot to pieces.

What about the Tau with their Crisis Suits that can attack the Flying Hive Tyrant using Velocity Tracker?

I think the eldar one is actually quite good.

Just because of the range. On a big board 3 scat bikes with prescience which can assault back after shooting and a fire prism that has been guided is not too shabby.

I'd never buy it though (I bought the sw set )

If you allow proxying then yeah Tyranids are top dogs.

But if not then probably Space Wolves. You don't get Devourers from the box and using the FW ones is not box content only.

It depends on the builds. Many units in these boxes can have a range of options. Is this "test" a set build vrs everyone, or can each box "tailor" to its opener? If it can, The admech is pretty strong. The AA walker can deal with a lot of stuff, the vanguard can pack up to 3 plasma and the dominus is no slouch. Plus if not facing a flier the walker neutron gun is quite strong. Tau may be a close match with its versatile suits - but they die to walker fire and plasma.

Lets say they can tailor to each matchup.

Who would win, sm or csm in a matchup?

Hawehu@hotmail.com wrote:
Lets say they can tailor to each matchup.

Who would win, sm or csm in a matchup?

This is the biggest mismatch ever. SM can have two phases to fire off a Grav Cannon. CSM can add hatred onto their Plasma Guns.

Cool thread OP.

 Frozocrone wrote:
This is the biggest mismatch ever. SM can have two phases to fire off a Grav Cannon. CSM can add hatred onto their Plasma Guns.

Is that a footslogging Grav Cannon? Perhaps you could snipe it out with a blast weapon, like a Hebrute Plasma Cannon, or a template weapon like Burning Brand on the HQ.

Spiritfox22 wrote:
The only box that has a legitimate chance of wrecking a Flyrant is the Mechanicus thanks to the Onager and it's gunbattery of skyfire. Everything else though is probably just gonna get shot to pieces.

Scions are sitting on a lot of twin-linking. And a LOT of Plasma.

1x Plasma Pistols, 4x Plasma Guns, twin-link: 1.8W
15x HSLG, 2x Plasma: 0.86W
3x Krak Missile, 1x TL-Volleygun : 0.62W

Total wounds on the Flyrant = 3.28W, so hopefully it fails its grounding check and splats gloriously into the ground. If not, you're toast!

There isn't a grav cannon in the SM starter set. I thought this was using only contents in the box. If so, then you also have to account for the number of certain weapons in the kits themselves. For example, SM only have one of each specialist weapon and a missile launcher. Scions will only have two plasma and melta, etc. I still feel the Tau one could be one of the best. It could be equipped to deal with both types of infantry and vehicles.

spect_spidey wrote:
I thought this was using only contents in the box.

That would complicate things, Flyrants wouldn't have Devourers for example.

We'd need to have a list. Personally I don't know what's in every kit!

Yoyoyo wrote:

spect_spidey wrote:
I thought this was using only contents in the box.

That would complicate things, Flyrants wouldn't have Devourers for example.

We'd need to have a list. Personally I don't know what's in every kit!

True, but the warrior kit comes with Devourers, so it'd take some slicing and dicing but is doable.

That's still a fair amount of proxying/converting.

'Big Bug' devourers are emphatically not the same weapon as 'Lil' Bug devourers'. You've got 1 pair to go at, I think, but the kit pretty much wants you to equip a pair of scything talons if you take the wings, because nothing else fits on the lower limbs. That's why forgeworld produce the double-dual piece for one arm.

A winged tyrant with one pair of brainleech devourers, a thorax swarm, and bug psyker powers is still scary as hell to face. As noted, the Onager and/or a properly equipped (velocity tracker/fireknife) battlesuit team are the only things likely to seriously inconvenience it.

Depends on the mission, too, though. If it's a maelstrom game, the hive tyrant has the classic problem of not being able to take objectives. By comparison, endlessly respawning scion squads (or similar) can quickly rack up a lot of points....


How about the Chaos Daemon ones? There's no accompanying formation, but they're just as useable in 40k. The skull cannon is quite a nasty asset in small games.

Lets say we can choose to use only box content, or upgrades as we like as long as the models can take it, but we state the choice beforehand.

This way we can all have a go at what we would prefer to contemplate.

Hawehu@hotmail.com wrote:
Lets say we can choose to use only box content, or upgrades as we like as long as the models can take it, but we state the choice beforehand.

This way we can all have a go at what we would prefer to contemplate.

While discussing conditions:

Normal games w/objectives?
Table size?

For example, a lot of times when talking about little ~500 point forces, you might just play on a 4x4 table. But the Eldar box can put a lot of highly mobile firepower at long range, on mobile platforms. They can leverage that a lot farther on a 4x6.

Here's all the armies in contention, for reference.

1) Overlord, 12x Warriors, 3x Scarab bases, Triarch Stalker
2) Commissar, 10x Guardmen, Leman Russ
3) Terminator Captain, 10x Tactical Marines, Venerable Dread
4) Herald of Nurgle, 3x Plague Drones, 10x Plaguebearers, 3x Nurglings
5) Hive Tyrant, 3x Warriors, 10x Gargoyles
6) Painboy, 11x Boyz, 5x Nobz, Deff Dread
7) Tech-Priest Dominus, 10x Skitarii, Onager Dunecrawler
8) Blood Throne, 3x Bloodcrushers, 3x Bloodletters
9) Commissar, 5x Command Squad, 5x Scion Squad, Taurox Prime
10) Wolf Lord, 10x Grey Hunters, 3x Thunderwolf Cavalry
11) Ethereal, 3x Crisis Suits, 10x Fire Warriors, 1x Turret, 8x Drones
12) Terminator Lord, 10x CSM, Helbrute
13) Jetbike Farseer, 3x Jetbikes, Fire Prism
14) Archon, 10x Warriors. 3x Reavers, Raider
15) Terminator Captain, 10x Tactical Marines, Baal Predator

Maybe we could create a kind of elimination bracket to see who advances?

If you use only the contents of the box, would you not still be able to make a Dakka Flyrant? As in, the Warriors come with devourers, so you can easily convert 2 twin-linked sets for the tyrant.

In this case, the Tyranid box wins out against all the others, with a slight chance to be beaten by the Nurgle set (2+ cover everywhere) or the Tau box (sky fire Suits)

Even then Flyrants can take Templates/Nova powers that ignore cover so Nurgle isn't exactly safe.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Even then Flyrants can take Templates/Nova powers that ignore cover so Nurgle isn't exactly safe.

Hence the "slight chance" reference.

Hawehu@hotmail.com wrote:
Lets say they can tailor to each matchup.

Who would win, sm or csm in a matchup?

Well, the helbrute is hopelessly outmatched by the dread.
The helbrute can go crazy after loosing a hullpoint and if your lucky he can shoot twice, the SM dreadnought on the other hand can choose to fire twice whenever it wants to thanks to the formation bonus, with BS5 no less if you make it venerable. Unlike the brute, it also gets the stormbolter for free. So the dreadought is a better helbrute, including the brutes special rule. Luckily the helbrute can get rage....so It can match the dreadnoughts base 4 attacks on the charge. All for the same cost...

For the csm, I suppose there is some merit to taking a csm blob in this matchup. If you can afford one that is. A dreadclaw could work well too, but the same can be said for sm and cheaper. And the SM can combat squad too.
The chaos lord is ok, but good luck getting him anywhere. The captain just has to stand there and work his formation magic. The lord can't run and you'd need a dreadclaw to get him there. Deepstriking him alone is just gonna get him killed.

CSM are really on the short end of the stick here, but it's hard to compare without a points limit.

How about we formalize this?

Matchup #1: CSM versus SM.

CSM units: Terminator Lord, 10x CSM, Helbrute
SM units: Terminator Captain, 10x Marines, Venerable Dread

Deployment: Dawn of War, 4'x4'
Primary Mission: The Relic (Win - 12pts, Draw - 6pts, Loss - 0pts)
Secondary Mission: 2x Objectives (Win - 12pts, Draw - 6pts, Loss - 0pts)
Tertiary Mission: Warlord, 1st Blood, Linebreaker (2pts each)
Terrain: Relic is centralized in a 12" courtyard surrounded by Ruins. 2x Objectives are in opposing deployment zones
Modifiers: Helbrute has 4A (as per "Roused to War" FAQ), all Formation Special rules are in use. Use the Draft FAQs!
Constraints: Box contents only (so no Grav Cannon), only one Relic upgrade may be taken by each HQ, no proxies

 G00fySmiley wrote:
of the getting started boxes the tyranids win hands down. nothing in the other boxes can match a hive tyrant. That said as a whole the tyranids are not a to p tier army and need come work so if this is some kind of league only using starter sets go for it, otherwise if it is to start a new army then the wolves or necrons would probably be a better choice.

note the only reason is no other box can deal with a T6 flying MC reliably

Skitarii can bring an Onager with Icarus Array. That shuts down a Flyrant pretty reliably in my experience.

Lots of good ponts and suggestions here.

Yoyo i like your list of starter sets.


So it seems like we have a few top boxes and a few bottom ones.

Some sets havent been mentioned yet, anyone have some thoughts on those?

Go as formal or as casual as you like, even tactics of what parts of the sets can do to other units is cool.