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My question is very simple.

In their current incarnation, at their current points cost, with their current statline, with the upgrades they have available to them at the costs of those upgrades, etc., do you feel like riptides are currently balanced/fair?

Why or why not?

Regardless of the answer to this, taking a riptide does not make you a bad person.

In relation to the rest of the game yes they are balanced. When viewed in isolation no they are not.

You are attempting to push your agenda harder than an evangelical radio preacher.

Klowny wrote:
In relation to the rest of the game yes they are balanced.

By "the rest of the game," do you mean "all other units in the game"?

"The game as a whole"

I think they are in moderation, I usually run 2 in games over 1000 3 in 1850 but even then there are a lot of counters and against a leman Russ heavy guard list its very hard without extra AV.

I think the changes to the FSC were needed as that was very powerful and has toned it down slightly.

Compared to Grav, WK, Scatterbikes and weird psyker silliness, yes.

 Selym wrote:
Compared to Grav, WK, Scatterbikes and weird psyker silliness, yes.

Are those things balanced?

If those things are not balanced, then how is it relevant to compare Riptides to other imbalanced things?

The only way a Riptide can deal with AV 14 is to NOVA and use Ion. That's not a guarantee on a destroyed vehicle or even a damaged one.

How is it relevant complaining about fairness/balance of a single unit when the game is neither fair nor balanced?

Ne_Streets wrote:
The only way a Riptide can deal with AV 14 is to NOVA and use Ion. That's not a guarantee on a destroyed vehicle or even a damaged one.

What's your point?

 Traditio wrote:

 Selym wrote:
Compared to Grav, WK, Scatterbikes and weird psyker silliness, yes.

Are those things balanced?

If those things are not balanced, then how is it relevant to compare Riptides to other imbalanced things?

Alright, let's take what is, categorically, the worst unit in the game:

Imperial Guardsmen.

Blob up and tarpit. Done.

 Selym wrote:

 Traditio wrote:

 Selym wrote:
Compared to Grav, WK, Scatterbikes and weird psyker silliness, yes.

Are those things balanced?

If those things are not balanced, then how is it relevant to compare Riptides to other imbalanced things?

Alright, let's take what is, categorically, the worst unit in the game:

Imperial Guardsmen.

Blob up and tarpit. Done.

You understand that's "jump" in the riptide's statline, right? You also understand that's a "72" in the ion cannon's range, right?

How is it relevant complaining about fairness/balance of a single unit when the game is neither fair nor balanced?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Don't have an answer?

Oh look, an 80/20 split in favor of "yes, Riptides are balanced". Is this going to be another poll where it's "trolls are voting to ruin my poll" as long as it goes against you, and "see, everyone agrees with me" if/when it turns in your favor?

 Peregrine wrote:
Oh look, an 80/20 split in favor of "yes, Riptides are balanced". Is this going to be another poll where it's "trolls are voting to ruin my poll" as long as it goes against you, and "see, everyone agrees with me" if/when it turns in your favor?

Trolls are definitely ruining my poll.

That said, just wait a day or two. The numbers will be changing soon enough, I wager.

How is it relevant complaining about fairness/balance of a single unit when the game is neither fair nor balanced?

Because Traditio thinks that 40k should be played like a colourful rendition of WW1.

 Traditio wrote:
Trolls are definitely ruining my poll.

Great, so we can just lock the thread now. The legitimacy of the poll results is forever tainted by these "trolls". No matter what the numbers end up being we'll always have to wonder if it's legitimate opinions or "trolls" voting dishonestly to mess with people. So there's no point in allowing the poll to continue.

That said, just wait a day or two. The numbers will be changing soon enough, I wager.

Are you inviting some of your "trolls" to vote "no" and bring the numbers in line with what you want them to be? I think this is a possibility we should consider, given your stated confidence that "trolls" are manipulating the results.

Riptds are on the higher part of the powercuve. We know this for years now.
Are they over powered , meh depends on what you compare it with. When you compare them with other units that are high on the power curve not. When you compare them to units on the lower part of the curve they are.
No point in discussing that really. Unless you want to make your point again about SM's, but we all know how that ends up.

 Verviedi wrote:
You are attempting to push your agenda harder than an evangelical radio preacher.

Indeed, at this point it starts to look like imperial propaganda.
If we just could convince each other to only use in setting terms in these discussions ; )

Imperial Guardsman: Riptides are so OP! All my friends got killed by one!

Tau: You had one friend, and he got killed only because my shot scattered. Stop crusading against me. Space Marines are the real OP.

Eldar: Yes, we love Riptides. They help us keep the Ork populations under control.

Orks: ITZ BIG AN SHOOTY AN STOMPY AN I WANNA LOOT IT!

I am going to stop interacting with Traditio for the moment. His trolling is raising my blood pressure.

It's keeping me busy today. My work at work has dried up.

Gonna be a long day of justified procrastination.

 Traditio wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 Traditio wrote:

 Selym wrote:
Compared to Grav, WK, Scatterbikes and weird psyker silliness, yes.

Are those things balanced?

If those things are not balanced, then how is it relevant to compare Riptides to other imbalanced things?

Alright, let's take what is, categorically, the worst unit in the game:

Imperial Guardsmen.

Blob up and tarpit. Done.

You understand that's "jump" in the riptide's statline, right? You also understand that's a "72" in the ion cannon's range, right?

Hopefully you understand that games generally are a) not played on infinite size board b) have this little thing called "terrain".

72" is in practice theoretical range. Very odd boards where you can freely use that. Even 24" isn't something you can rely on having in abundance. Yes there are some firelines but opponent can you know...Avoid those.

 oldzoggy wrote:
Riptds are on the higher part of the powercuve. We know this for years now.
Are they over powered , meh depends on what you compare it with. When you compare them with other units that are high on the power curve not. When you compare them to units on the lower part of the curve they are.
No point in discussing that really. Unless you want to make your point again about SM's, but we all know how that ends up.

Basically I feel the same, there are so many things now that are quite strong that by comparison it doesn't make the Riptide stand out as being a major offender anymore.

What I do dislike about Riptides still is that they are too well rounded which takes away from the whole Tau theme of combined arms and working together to overcome problems. Riptide spam just feels lazy list design more than being inherently OP.

Seeing as how I've consistently taken them out via Hive Crones, yes they are balanced.

It depends what you consider "balanced" to be.

Traditio, what makes you think there is any balance or balancing mechanisms within 40k?

 Peregrine wrote:
Oh look, an 80/20 split in favor of "yes, Riptides are balanced". Is this going to be another poll where it's "trolls are voting to ruin my poll" as long as it goes against you, and "see, everyone agrees with me" if/when it turns in your favor?

No no, he's just a strong minority and we have to consider his position still!