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Depends on what riptide is really (and how many)
XV104-they're fine, 3 is the max number i would allow in a game (bar apocalypse) befire i said no to it
XV109-Annoying as all hell and it can deal with all types of targets, plus it can turn into a FMC... (i would say a max of 2 before saying no)
XV107-Oh Boy, where do i start with this thing (i own one) the cluster fire rule just turns EVERYTHING into ribbons (even AV14 vehicles, despite being S8) and can deal with literally everything
(Max 1 because its OP)

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure i mortal means can't die so if rip tides were immortal how come I loose mine pretty much every game

 overlord inspiron wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure i mortal means can't die so if rip tides were immortal how come I loose mine pretty much every game

Because you spell "lose" as "loose".

But yes, they are far from Immortal. Harder to kill than a squad of Terminators, but definitely not Immortal.

You can't look at a single model and determine if it's balanced you have to look at the whole codex and I think tau are balanced or at least not over powered, in competitive tournament settings. My playgroup and I mainly play more competitive 40k and we keep up with tournaments and tau rarely if ever win any major tournaments and maybe one guy might make it to top 8 with tau. Are tau fun to play against? Not really. Are they in general overpowered? Not if you look at what other codexes can bring. Are riptides overpowered? As someone who plays against 3-4 on a regular basis, no they are not.

 Yarium wrote:

 overlord inspiron wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure i mortal means can't die so if rip tides were immortal how come I loose mine pretty much every game

Because you spell "lose" as "loose".

But yes, they are far from Immortal. Harder to kill than a squad of Terminators, but definitely not Immortal.

Yeah auto correct on my tablet is broken I have to fiddle with it for a while to stop this anyway, I seem to struggle with taking out terminators

Why isn't there an option for 'whatever the opposite of whatever Trad thinks' bobbinsed if I'm going to press buttons that don't push buttons....

Just looking at the comments I can see a people voting Yes just to mess with the poll and disagree with Traditio. Riptides are over performing and always have been.

 overlord inspiron wrote:

 Yarium wrote:

 overlord inspiron wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure i mortal means can't die so if rip tides were immortal how come I loose mine pretty much every game

Because you spell "lose" as "loose".

But yes, they are far from Immortal. Harder to kill than a squad of Terminators, but definitely not Immortal.

Yeah auto correct on my tablet is broken I have to fiddle with it for a while to stop this anyway, I seem to struggle with taking out terminators

Ally with me for my Emperor's Champion. So far he's up about 40 terminator kills. Never died to one.

 Quickjager wrote:
Just looking at the comments I can see a people voting Yes just to mess with the poll and disagree with Traditio. Riptides are over performing and always have been.

indeed, and the fact that it's almost impossible to find a Tau list that doesnt include one is a pretty solid indicator.

 Selym wrote:

 overlord inspiron wrote:

 Yarium wrote:

 overlord inspiron wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure i mortal means can't die so if rip tides were immortal how come I loose mine pretty much every game

Because you spell "lose" as "loose".

But yes, they are far from Immortal. Harder to kill than a squad of Terminators, but definitely not Immortal.

Yeah auto correct on my tablet is broken I have to fiddle with it for a while to stop this anyway, I seem to struggle with taking out terminators

Ally with me for my Emperor's Champion. So far he's up about 40 terminator kills. Never died to one.

Thanks for the offer, how do you manage it

No. They have an insane combination of durability, firepower, range, versatility, ap2 good strength melee, and mobility that makes many units of similar and greater costs quite jealous.

We've mathed out before that a marine captain kitted for melee that makes it to a tide at full health (somehow) still only has about a coin flip's chance of winning the engagement, even though he's a dedicated choppy unit engaging a shooty unit of similar cost. In most other cases in the game, that situation ends in a steamroll. (He basically only wins if the tide fails morale after a wound. A tide tossing smashes will bring him down before his fist attacks bring the tide down.)

Is it the most broken thing in the game? No. I rank a bunch of formations and a few other units above it. It's on the list though, and you don't have to go very far down to see it.

Yes, they're fine as is. Rather than complain about Riptides, I can see a problem with the low cost of EWO (one of the most common upgrades for a Riptide). 5 points per model for Interceptor? That is a bit unfair, and I say that as a Tau player. Riptides are only cheesy if you spam them. The FW variants are absolutely bananas though.

 overlord inspiron wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure i mortal means can't die so if rip tides were immortal how come I loose mine pretty much every game

Do you voluntarily put them in front of grav cents? That's about the only consistent way marines can deal with them. You can laugh off every other heavy weapon in the marine arsenal. It takes a number of lascannons that you will never see to kill these things. There are damn few units in the game that can do anything at all to Riptides, so answer your own question: how ARE you getting them killed? Because mathematically it's damn near impossible.

The sad part is that even ranged D is not that reliable vs Riptide, with it rocking a 3++ save. At least it turns off the blasted FNP.

Each shot from a BS4 D weapon has an 11% chance to one-shot it, but if that never happens, you are looking at a 17% chance to clear an average of two wounds. That will take forever.

 overlord inspiron wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 overlord inspiron wrote:

 Yarium wrote:

 overlord inspiron wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure i mortal means can't die so if rip tides were immortal how come I loose mine pretty much every game

Because you spell "lose" as "loose".

But yes, they are far from Immortal. Harder to kill than a squad of Terminators, but definitely not Immortal.

Yeah auto correct on my tablet is broken I have to fiddle with it for a while to stop this anyway, I seem to struggle with taking out terminators

Ally with me for my Emperor's Champion. So far he's up about 40 terminator kills. Never died to one.

Thanks for the offer, how do you manage it

EC+Crusader Squad, get the charge, challenge the terminators. EC goes first at I5, often gets a kill or two (thanks to wounds spilling over). He's actually lucked out and killed three on a few occasions. The overwhelming number of attacks from the crusaders will do the rest, given that only the sergeant can swing at I4, and he's either now dead, in a challenge, or hiding from the EC.

I have had matchups of the EC alone vs 4-5 termies. Still kicks ass.

 Quickjager wrote:
Just looking at the comments I can see a people voting Yes just to mess with the poll and disagree with Traditio. Riptides are over performing and always have been.

I'm sure some people are, but I doubt 63 people are.

It shows what I was saying in the other thread, there is NOT a general consensus on what is "balanced" and what is not. Riptides over perform relative to some things, and under perform relative to others, so what point do you take as a reference.

Traditio likes to pretend things are black and white, like his opinion is not only the correct one but the one that represents a general consensus when there is no general consensus. How this poll is constructed is very poor and reflects that.

The poll will be flawed unless it's anonymity is dispelled, we need to know who plays Tau and who doesn't to weigh it correctly. This board has a significant amount of new Tau players.

How can anyone do a comparison of weapon systems to the defenses of the Riptide and consider it fair?

I'm guessing a big part is that many people plan to run it over with an invisible wolf star.

This makes me wonder: how does Tau vs Tau play out? Tau don't have many weapons that can hurt their own Riptide effectively. Isn't that another red flag? Your own army can't kill your MC and you are the premiere shooting army?

The way I see it, the early 7th, pre-Decurion codex's are balanced with each other fairly well, and the post Decurion codex's are balanced with each other pretty well.
Against an early 7th codex, a riptide is OP, but against Eldar or Necrons? Nah, they have ways of dealing with it.

 Quickjager wrote:
The poll will be flawed unless it's anonymity is dispelled, we need to know who plays Tau and who doesn't to weigh it correctly. This board has a significant amount of new Tau players.

The poll could also do with more detail than a yes/no. At the moment if you think that the Riptide is fine outside the formtion your answer is both yes and no. But what do you expect from Traditio's polls?

StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote:
The way I see it, the early 7th, pre-Decurion codex's are balanced with each other fairly well, and the post Decurion codex's are balanced with each other pretty well.
Against an early 7th codex, a riptide is OP, but against Eldar or Necrons? Nah, they have ways of dealing with it.

What ways do the Necrons have? Gauss is useless against it. I outlined how poor D weapons function against the Riptide above. How are even Eldar dealing with it? Scatterlasers can't help you.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:
Just looking at the comments I can see a people voting Yes just to mess with the poll and disagree with Traditio. Riptides are over performing and always have been.

I'm sure some people are, but I doubt 63 people are.

It shows what I was saying in the other thread, there is NOT a general consensus on what is "balanced" and what is not. Riptides over perform relative to some things, and under perform relative to others, so what point do you take as a reference.

Traditio likes to pretend things are black and white, like his opinion is not only the correct one but the one that represents a general consensus when there is no general consensus.

And what does it even matter if a few people vote against Traditio's opinion simply to disagree with him? Most of his polls are not made with good faith data collection in mind, they are almost always knee-jerk reactions to someone disagreeing with his opinion or calling out flying goalposts. They are primarily to assert his opinion as fact so he can prove his dominance or something.

I bolded the above because that's the biggest contributor to these polls, and most reactions to Traditio. He makes claims like they're just the most obvious fact, when they are anecdotal and just his opinion.

When a poll is made from a statement that is basically "Oh so you disagree with me, how about I make a poll?" then the poll is not made to actually determine an answer. It's made to throw a "So there!" at the disagreeing person. Why should we help that attitude along?

 Quickjager wrote:
The poll will be flawed unless it's anonymity is dispelled, we need to know who plays Tau and who doesn't to weigh it correctly. This board has a significant amount of new Tau players.

Voted yes, I am a Tau player but not as my primary faction. I own a lot.
In general, my stronger factions do well against it. My weaker factions struggle. It's not like the WK or grav cent deathstar where everything struggles with it, so I don't consider it OP.

If there was a way to see what armies everyone plays I think it would explain a lot about the voting. I imagine people who main the weaker armies look at the riptide and go "WHAT THE WHAT!?" while people who play the stronger armies probably think its good but not great.

 Quickjager wrote:
The poll will be flawed unless it's anonymity is dispelled, we need to know who plays Tau and who doesn't to weigh it correctly. This board has a significant amount of new Tau players.

How do you figure? Is the amount of new Tau players disproportionate compared to new, say, Ork players on this board? Are we to assume that Tau players specifically will be dishonest because it's anonymous, or because they don't want to admit something is OP? How many votes is a Tau player's vote worth? 1/5? Are they going to be dishonest because they think if they say Riptides are unbalanced something horrible will happen? I think I understand your concerns, I just want to know what assumptions you're making.

Its as balanced as 40k itself these days

Against older weak codexes - its way OP
Against older codexesand 7th Ed Codexes - its very very hard to kill and in multiples OP

However against the 7.5 edition powerdexes its nothing special.

Akiasura wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:
The poll will be flawed unless it's anonymity is dispelled, we need to know who plays Tau and who doesn't to weigh it correctly. This board has a significant amount of new Tau players.

Voted yes, I am a Tau player but not as my primary faction. I own a lot.
In general, my stronger factions do well against it. My weaker factions struggle. It's not like the WK or grav cent deathstar where everything struggles with it, so I don't consider it OP.

If there was a way to see what armies everyone plays I think it would explain a lot about the voting. I imagine people who main the weaker armies look at the riptide and go "WHAT THE WHAT!?" while people who play the stronger armies probably think its good but not great.

Meaning if we have a roughly 50/50 split accounting for margin for error, it's very likely that higher powered codices consider it to be just fine, while weaker codices consider it "WHAT THE WHAT" which really means this poll comes down to anecdotal suppositions, and is useless as a data piece.

Martel732 wrote:

StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote:
The way I see it, the early 7th, pre-Decurion codex's are balanced with each other fairly well, and the post Decurion codex's are balanced with each other pretty well.
Against an early 7th codex, a riptide is OP, but against Eldar or Necrons? Nah, they have ways of dealing with it.

What ways do the Necrons have? Gauss is useless against it. I outlined how poor D weapons function against the Riptide above. How are even Eldar dealing with it? Scatterlasers can't help you.

I'm not too familiar with the Necrons, but from what I know, tying it up with Wraiths, possibly killing it with a D-Lord. Or just eat the shots on your guys with Invuls and RP like the sword/shield dudes. Most of your other infantry should be in AV 13 vehicles, right?
For Eldar, you can shriek it off, hopefully combined with some -LD powers/wargear, WK it, or just wipe the Markerlights, removing its ability to ignore cover, then stick to cover to minimize its damage output. Maybe get some -LD and terrify it, and it might run off the table, or at least waste a turn falling back.
Nothing super easy, but it shouldn't be impossible.

"For Eldar, you can shriek it off"

Not with a 3++/5+++ you aren't.

"WK it,"

I just showed how that doesn't work as welll as you might think.

Now realize you might have to do this 3-4 times.

Martel732 wrote:
"For Eldar, you can shriek it off"

Not with a 3++/5+++ you aren't.

"WK it,"

I just showed how that doesn't work as welll as you might think.

Now realize you might have to do this 3-4 times.

The 3++ is only if they get it off that turn, at which point you just shriek off a supporting unit, something with Markerlights or OS, or another Riptide that doesn't have 3++.
For the D, its the same thing. Take apart one without the 3++, or knock out some other units.

Yeah, the resiliency of the Riptide is just rather absurd. Drop a wound and the FNP ability and it becomes far more reasonable. As is, the thing is capable of tanking far more heavy weapons fire than heavy battle tanks are, and, while theoretically vulnerable to small arms fire, is so heavily resistant that it might as well be invulnerable to such weapons, requiring an average of 81 BS4 bolter shots or 108 BS3 Lasgun shots to take a single wound off of an FNP'd Riptide.

Compare it to tanks like Leman Russ or Hammerheads and the Riptide has comparable if not superior firepower, dramatically superior resiliency and mobility, and isnt even a HS unit so it doesnt compete with the other big guns, and pays a relatively small premium for all that.

 Quickjager wrote:
The poll will be flawed unless it's anonymity is dispelled, we need to know who plays Tau and who doesn't to weigh it correctly. This board has a significant amount of new Tau players.

You make it sound like ALL tau players will vote yes. I voted yes, but I wish there had been an option for "Yes, but EWO, stimms and IA could use a bit of a price adjustment" (or a more general "yes, but some options for the riptide need a price adjustment").

Because the riptide IS fine, unless you seriously want to tell me that the HBC is OP too. It's the upgrades that are underpriced really.