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2016/08/11 21:23:03
Subject: How does one enter the Adeptus Mechanicus?
Admech isn't the navy or any other regular organisation it is an other empire. Your question is kinda comparable with : how do I get into North Korea and how easy would it be to become the minister of defence.
Tech marines are trained by admech and loyal to the cult of Mars but they are not true admech.
Automatically Appended Next Post: There are of course some exceptions some famous can be found in the novel's but most imperial citizens will not even be able to pierce their wall of secrecy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/11 21:46:08
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2016/08/11 22:24:52
Subject: How does one enter the Adeptus Mechanicus?
It's really unknown how to join the Admech. I mean, there is not definite information that I can find.
In the Forge of Mars series of novels, I believe that one of the techpriests had a daughter who he create through vat-growth. But it's unknown if they do this throughout the entire organization. It would make some sense though. I do believe that some Skitarii are vat-grown.
As for moving up in the ranks, probably from a combination of politics, personal attitude and achievements.
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2016/08/11 22:33:26
Subject: How does one enter the Adeptus Mechanicus?
So you basically have to be born in the organization? Can't you ask to join the cult or something? Or they would just lobotomize you and turn you into a servitor if you are so eager to serve the Omissiah?
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2016/08/11 22:51:55
Subject: How does one enter the Adeptus Mechanicus?
Vintersorg wrote: So you basically have to be born in the organization? Can't you ask to join the cult or something? Or they would just lobotomize you and turn you into a servitor if you are so eager to serve the Omissiah?
That's the thing...we just don't know. No source just comes out and says it. (At least, that I know of.) I mean, it wouldn't be unreasonable for say, a menial, to demonstrate high aptitude for technology and be desirable as a tech-priest and thus be formally indoctrinated into the Cult Mechanicus. A lot of the characters I see in numerous books who are apprentices or lower ranking tech-priests tend to show much more emotion in their responses despite their indoctrination and it is common that higher you go up in the ranks the more machine-like you become. Given that, I would have to think that those lower ranking members had to be just regular humans at some point and that the Admech recruit from their civilian populations on their Forge Worlds. It's the only thing that seems to make sense IMHO.
As for the servitors: they are usually vat-grown and thus altered before birth to be basically brain dead or are criminals sentenced to "Servitude Imperpituis".
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2016/08/11 23:16:34
Subject: How does one enter the Adeptus Mechanicus?
GW stole the cult from Asimov. In hs book the foundation you could convert to the faith and even become a low ranking priest I you took years of study but that is it. The whole cult thing was a scam the upper part of the "priest hood" was into it and would never even consider giving those barbarians true knowledge. This is how they controlled the local warlords who ruled over technologically regressed civilisations.
In 40k You can convert to the faith being accepted into a forge is something else but you can convert.
Some sm are trained into tech marines. They are not part of ad much.
Mechanicum novel is about a insanely gifted girl who even helps building a impossible machine but did not officially become admech as far as I know
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/08/12 06:53:47
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2016/08/11 23:22:55
Subject: How does one enter the Adeptus Mechanicus?
Well, most of the jobs held by various Adeptus are ones that you are born into. You'll maintain the air filtration system in Hive IX-AZ like your papa before you. And your children will do the same.
I imagine that it is the same for the Adeptus mechanicus, you're probably born into it. Or taken about if you have pontential talent.
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2016/08/11 23:25:39
Subject: How does one enter the Adeptus Mechanicus?
Don,t forget. Every forge on the planet and forgeworldnmay have a different criteria and methods.
So any of the above could apply.
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2016/08/11 23:49:20
Subject: How does one enter the Adeptus Mechanicus?
jhe90 wrote: Don,t forget. Every forge on the planet and forgeworldnmay have a different criteria and methods.
So any of the above could apply.
Another good point.
Then add on to the fact that there are many different subsections of faith and differing views and you get a splintered picture. Shoot, in the novel Tech Priest, the main character, a Magos Explorator, condemns the Admech and their obsession for lost secrets, poking around at things that should never be rediscovered and having forgotten the value of ignorance.
So, once we get down to it: the Admech have always been around and have many different factions and belief. I would liken them to the Inquisition in becoming an Inquisitor or becoming a Rogue Trader. There's no one way of doing it or achieving it. As such, they produce many types of individuals with unique circumstances. This is probably also for story reason. By leaving the actual methods of becoming a member or such no clear, many different types of characters can be created and man different stories can be told.
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2016/08/13 12:29:50
Subject: How does one enter the Adeptus Mechanicus?
Da Masta wrote: So, once we get down to it: the Admech have always been around and have many different factions and belief. I would liken them to the Inquisition in becoming an Inquisitor or becoming a Rogue Trader. There's no one way of doing it or achieving it. As such, they produce many types of individuals with unique circumstances. This is probably also for story reason. By leaving the actual methods of becoming a member or such no clear, many different types of characters can be created and man different stories can be told.
This certainly makes sense. I'd also compare the AdMech to organisations like the medieval/reneissance Catholic Church in some ways. It's important for society to work, they keep secrets "man wasn't meant to know" and while the top positions often are taken by those with the best political connections (there was a good bit of time where popes usually came from influential noble families) someone extraordinarily talented could make it to the top or close enough by hard work. The top Magos of a Forge World or their guy on the High Lords isn't necessarily the best Magos (though he does have to be good), it's the guy who has the least enemies among the others - or the guy who is best at playing these enemies against each other.
2016/08/13 18:26:55
Subject: How does one enter the Adeptus Mechanicus?
The AdMech is a feudal organisation. You don't get to join it, you are born in it. Anyone who is born on an AdMech planet is a member of the AdMech (though most will of course be menials rather than adepts). How you advance in rank has never been detailed afaik, but it probably depends mostly on birth and connections. Like with almost all citizens of the Imperium, members of the AdMech are probably likely to be going to do the same job as their parents did, and their grandparents, and their parents before them etc. etc. etc. 40k is the Dark Ages in space, after all.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/08/13 18:31:29
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2016/08/15 19:06:47
Subject: Re:How does one enter the Adeptus Mechanicus?
The details, and if they varies between forgeworlds, is unclear.
However, there are few important jobs you apply for in the 40K universe. Rather the Administratum, Inquisition, Space Marines etc recruits you. Either through the Scholas, by aplitude (in the case of Space Marines - a mixture of physical and mental traits) or random chance (an Inquisitor needs an Acolyte NOW - and you are available).
My guess is that the AM searches for future Tech Priests among the children on their forgeworlds. It could be a ritual for all 7-10 years old with problem solving, mathematical challenges and mental testing - or by spreading popular games among the children and recruit everyone that reached 100% (as in The Last Starfighter), or something else.
Then the recruits goes through basic scientific education, indoctrination and grunt work within the AM for a decade or two. Those that survive are then given specialisation depending on their talents, interests, the need of AM etc. Some are booted out to the IG as Engsineers or general support for hives, transportation and other infrastructure. Other are promoted to a specialized field, whereupon the same procedure starts again, but with more advanced knowledge, deeper secrets and higher rank.
2016/08/15 23:29:55
Subject: How does one enter the Adeptus Mechanicus?
I really, really rather hate the idea of inheriting the rank through family ties. to me, at least, It makes almost no sense that an organization that glorifies the cold, calculations of the machines would have recruitment limited to people who give into the desires of the flesh. Plus, with the imperium needing millions of tech priests to function as mechanics for all machines, I don't think they would limit it only to those who were born from tech priests.
I don't like the idea of all tech priests always being vat grown either. I dunno, but it just kinda loses all flavor when they are essentially clones custom made for the job. And besides, isn't this tech kinda forbidden? I remember the Death Korps of Kreig needing this to keep up with the recruiting needs and how it was frowned upon everywhere else. It just creates this Attack of the Clones feel where each tech priest is similar to the others with not a lot of varying personality.
It makes the most sense they are like convents or monasteries. People come to them to search for knowledge, and if they are devoted / smart enough they are given their vows and augments and are sent into the Astra Militarum or to worlds to become the engineers for specific systems. If they preform a good enough job they are promoted based on their skill to a higher rank, and inducted into more secrets and given more knowledge for specific tasks. This continues until they can't reach any higher ranks (not to say that they are Magi or domini, more like if they are only good enough to be a datasmith then they are a datasmith for the rest of their lives)
with Skitarii recruitment I am willing to accept the vat grown thing, but I probably suspect that on most forge worlds they are recruited from the forge workers or join the ranks on other planets and advance based on skill.
but as people say above, it can be different for each and every forgeworld.
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2016/08/19 11:19:45
Subject: How does one enter the Adeptus Mechanicus?
See, for me the contradiction is that any demonstration of technical aptitude is heresy, as only Adepts of the Machine-God can be allowed to fix machines, and anyone else caught would probably be killed for Tech-Heresy. And innovation is prohibited, so inventing a new tank or schematic system other than the STC is death for Tech-Heresy. And researching technology to pass an entrance exam would be classed as Heresy also.
So idk.
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2016/08/19 11:35:58
Subject: How does one enter the Adeptus Mechanicus?
Tiger9gamer wrote: I really, really rather hate the idea of inheriting the rank through family ties. to me, at least, It makes almost no sense that an organization that glorifies the cold, calculations of the machines would have recruitment limited to people who give into the desires of the flesh. Plus, with the imperium needing millions of tech priests to function as mechanics for all machines, I don't think they would limit it only to those who were born from tech priests.
I don't like the idea of all tech priests always being vat grown either. I dunno, but it just kinda loses all flavor when they are essentially clones custom made for the job. And besides, isn't this tech kinda forbidden? I remember the Death Korps of Kreig needing this to keep up with the recruiting needs and how it was frowned upon everywhere else. It just creates this Attack of the Clones feel where each tech priest is similar to the others with not a lot of varying personality.
It makes the most sense they are like convents or monasteries. People come to them to search for knowledge, and if they are devoted / smart enough they are given their vows and augments and are sent into the Astra Militarum or to worlds to become the engineers for specific systems. If they preform a good enough job they are promoted based on their skill to a higher rank, and inducted into more secrets and given more knowledge for specific tasks. This continues until they can't reach any higher ranks (not to say that they are Magi or domini, more like if they are only good enough to be a datasmith then they are a datasmith for the rest of their lives)
with Skitarii recruitment I am willing to accept the vat grown thing, but I probably suspect that on most forge worlds they are recruited from the forge workers or join the ranks on other planets and advance based on skill.
but as people say above, it can be different for each and every forgeworld.
That would not be grimdark enough. This is 40k after all
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2016/08/20 09:31:56
Subject: How does one enter the Adeptus Mechanicus?
In one of the Ciaphas Cain books, there is mention of some labourers who get co-opted as tool carriers by a techpriest, and become "lay-brothers" in later life - there is also mention of a seminary where techpriests are trained. That seems to suggest that you can join the mechanicus a bit like becoming a priest today, or maybe a monk or nun.
Also, in one of the Dark Heresy novels, one of the antagonists was from minor aristocracy before receiving the patronage of a high-up Magos, and reached Magos rank himself.
So, my headcanon is that you can join the mechanicus - but you'd better hope you pass the exam, else you'll get servitorised!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/20 09:32:08
GW stole the cult from Asimov. In hs book the foundation you could convert to the faith and even become a low ranking priest I you took years of study but that is it. The whole cult thing was a scam the upper part of the "priest hood" was into it and would never even consider giving those barbarians true knowledge. This is how they controlled the local warlords who ruled over technologically regressed civilisations.
What the feth am I reading? The Foundation had nothing to do with a religion. You entered it by being useful to the developpment of the psychohistoric science. There's nothing about keeping knowledge from anyone (well, except for the planned schedule for the next 1000 years).
You sure you aren't thinking about Zardoz, there? Because there is literally nothing about Asimov's Foundation series in your description.
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2016/08/21 08:46:37
Subject: How does one enter the Adeptus Mechanicus?
GW stole the cult from Asimov. In hs book the foundation you could convert to the faith and even become a low ranking priest I you took years of study but that is it. The whole cult thing was a scam the upper part of the "priest hood" was into it and would never even consider giving those barbarians true knowledge. This is how they controlled the local warlords who ruled over technologically regressed civilisations.
What the feth am I reading? The Foundation had nothing to do with a religion. You entered it by being useful to the developpment of the psychohistoric science. There's nothing about keeping knowledge from anyone (well, except for the planned schedule for the next 1000 years).
You sure you aren't thinking about Zardoz, there? Because there is literally nothing about Asimov's Foundation series in your description.
I dare to disagree with you, religion did play a major part in that book and the 40k's tech cult along with other themes are rip offs of Asimov. You don't have to believe my words. You can just read it yourself.
Here are some snippets to refresh your memory.
The nature of the Religion and the cult
Spoiler:
"Yes, but you were forced to surround these scientific gifts with the most outrageous mummery. You've made half religion, half balderdash out of it. You've erected a hierarchy of priests and complicated, meaningless ritual." Hardin frowned. "What of that? I don't see that it has anything to do with the argument at all. I started that way at first because the barbarians looked upon our science as a sort of magical sorcery, and it was easiest to get them to accept it on that basis. The priesthood built itself and if we help it along we are only following the line of least resistance. It is a minor matter." "But these priests are in charge of the power plants. That is not a minor matter." "True, but we have trained them. Their knowledge of their tools is purely empirical; and they have a firm belief in the mummery that surrounds them." "And if one pierces through the mummery, and has the genius to brush aside empiricism, what is to prevent him from learning actual techniques, and selling out to the most satisfactory bidder? What price our value to the kingdoms, then?" "Little chance of that, Sermak. You are being superficial. The best men on the planets of the kingdoms are sent here to the Foundation each year and educated into the priesthood. And the best of these remain here as research students. If you think that those who are left, with practically no knowledge of the elements of science, or worse, still, with the distorted knowledge the priests receive, can penetrate at a bound to nuclear power, to electronics, to the theory of the hyperwarp – you have a very romantic and very foolish idea of science. It takes lifetimes of training and an excellent brain to get that far." .....
...... "Here it is." Bort was a trifle disconcerted, but didn't show it. "The religion – which the Foundation has fostered and encouraged, mind you – is built on on strictly authoritarian lines. The priesthood has sole control of the instruments of science we have given Anacreon, but they've learned to handle these tools only empirically. They believe in this religion entirely, and in the ... uh ... spiritual value of the power they handle. For instance, two months ago some fool tampered with the power plant in the Thessalekian Temple – one of the large ones. He contaminated the city, of course. It was considered divine vengeance by everyone, including the priests." ...
... "Now any dogma primarily based on faith and emotionalism, is a dangerous weapon to use on others, since it is almost impossible to guarantee that the weapon will never be turned on the user. For a hundred years now, we've supported a ritual and mythology that is becoming more and more venerable, traditional – and immovable. In some ways, it isn't under our control any more."
On the clothing of the priest
Spoiler:
"And never recognized his own high priest?" "Without my crimson robe? Besides, he was a Smyrnian. It was an interesting experience, though. It is remarkable, Hardin, how the religion of science has grabbed hold.
A fragment of a local governor negotiating with a rogue trader who should be spreading the faith but neglects it from time to time.
Spoiler:
"True! I have seen this. But what would you?" His voice was a plaintive whine. "Your people have always been so unreasonable. I am in favor of all the trade our economy can support, but not on your terms. I am not sole master here." His voice rose, "I am only the servant of public opinion. My people will not take commerce which carries with it a compulsory religion." Mallow drew himself up, "A compulsory religion?" "So it has always been in effect. Surely you remember the case of Askone twenty years ago. First they were sold some of your goods and then your people asked for complete freedom of missionary effort in order that the goods might be run properly; that Temples of Health be set up. There was then the establishment of religious schools; autonomous rights for all officers of the religion and with what result? Askone is now an integral member of the Foundation's system and the Grand Master cannot call his underwear his own. Oh, no! Oh, no! The dignity of an independent people could never suffer it." "None of what you speak is at all what I suggest," interposed Mallow. "No?" "No. I'm a Master Trader. Money is my religion. All this mysticism and hocus-pocus of the missionaries annoy me, and I'm glad you refuse to countenance it. It makes you more my type of man." The Commdor's laugh was high-pitched and jerky, "Well said! The Foundation should have sent a man of your caliber before this."
This message was edited 12 times. Last update was at 2016/08/21 09:27:59
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2016/08/21 14:44:41
Subject: How does one enter the Adeptus Mechanicus?
Kovnik Obama wrote: What the feth am I reading? The Foundation had nothing to do with a religion. You entered it by being useful to the developpment of the psychohistoric science. There's nothing about keeping knowledge from anyone (well, except for the planned schedule for the next 1000 years).
I dare to disagree with you, religion did play a major part in that book and the 40k's tech cult along with other themes are rip offs of Asimov.
Aye, in the latter part of the book technology had become a religion of sorts. People of the old empire still built powerful machinery but development and research had stagnated, in large part because the tech cult wanted to keep their monopoly on technology to ensure they were impossible to replace.
But if you just skim it and/or jump a few boring parts it's easy to miss I suppose.
2016/08/22 01:00:51
Subject: How does one enter the Adeptus Mechanicus?
Dark Apostle 666 wrote: In one of the Ciaphas Cain books, there is mention of some labourers who get co-opted as tool carriers by a techpriest, and become "lay-brothers" in later life - there is also mention of a seminary where techpriests are trained. That seems to suggest that you can join the mechanicus a bit like becoming a priest today, or maybe a monk or nun.
Also, in one of the Dark Heresy novels, one of the antagonists was from minor aristocracy before receiving the patronage of a high-up Magos, and reached Magos rank himself.
So, my headcanon is that you can join the mechanicus - but you'd better hope you pass the exam, else you'll get servitorised!
In the same book we meet Felicia, someone who had a calling and entered a local admech seminary while her brother joins the PDF. She then rises to senior Magor rank. Similarly in one of the earlier Cain books the transport ship Engineer is the sister of the captain and us described as answering the call. Don't need to be born into it.
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oldzoggy wrote: Lol you might want to read the rest of the book before you order a freshly build "powerful machine" from the remains of the empire.
As I recall the tech cult did build powerful stuff, but they had no regard for the size of it (much like the IoM). A powerful reactor was huge because why not, materials were plentiful. The Foundation in exile miniturized things in part because they didn't have raw materials.
2016/08/23 02:18:28
Subject: How does one enter the Adeptus Mechanicus?
They where not even able to repair their own drives and reactors on most planets ( and all got the obvious "issues") and it got worse by the day the empire was falling to ruin fast. ; )
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