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They are totaly not hard to use, just Tellyport in trukk.

I think the biggest knock against Lootas is they are boring AF. They also really limit what strategies you can employ.

1) They take up a gak ton of CP. Upwards of 6 a round ( Grot shields + More dakka + Showing off + CP shot re-roll). This limits what other stratagems you can employ.

2) They force you to take a bad moons detachment, which has very, very few optimal units for Orks (Basically just Lootas. MAYBEEE tankbustas, but I prefer putting my bustas in a vehicle anyway).

3) They are also basic static gunline nonsense which is probably the least fun way to play 40k.

Gits and TB require you to move them / tellyport them forward. I find they are quite a lot more dynamic. Neither requires a lot of CP either to be effective -- Tankbustas are *amazing* against vehicles without a single CP spent on them. And against normal units, they are the cheapest per point platform for rockets, which are always good to bring.

I have been loving tanbustas in vehicles. I prefer to try to play them so they survive 2 rounds, which is how I get them to shoot twice for free.

I feel sometimes Ork strategies employ a lot of glass cannon mentality which is rather boring and can really flop if the dice go against you on that 1 turn.

I dunno, that seems like a pretty inefficient use to me. 2CP to not shoot till T2, hitting on 5s, and almost certainly either won't survive to shoot again or will get charged and tarpitted.

300 points + 2cp for what is probably one volley of fire hitting on 5s doesn't strike me as great value.

From those three i tend to not use Tankbustas anymore. They never seemed to bring back their points with ether adding transporter costs to the total od getting deleted immediately after tellyporting.
Managed to throw 10 Tankbusta bombs with shooting twice once against an opponent that got to close with his knight, but there are way fewer knights out there right now and on tournaments i don`t really think i can pull that stunt of against someone, unless he`s not that experienced.
Only when playing 2-3 battlewaggons full with shooty stuff i field them from time to time if i am feeling funny.

My lists have normally enough antitank so i can gear up on lootas and Gitz instead.

Especially when playing against Death Guard i love playing 15 Lootas. They make 10 wounds on average on Morti shooting twice and kill him in one turn if i get 3 shots both times running as bad moons.
When they still cere able to mob up they one-shoted Morti basicly every game.
Also they are quite easy to play against DG because they are slow and i can grotshield away any firepower over 24" my opponent has if he fields Crawlers or Leviathan(s).
Only downside is, if i take a DS detachment for SSAG and maybe an Evil Sunz detachment for Boys and Warboss with Killaclaw i have 30 Bad Monns grots tops which means against any opponent with serious long range firepower or else they still die turn 1 or 2.
If they kill 300+ points of stuff in 1-2 turns thats still a good trade for me.

Gitz as said before need a transport or to tellyport. Also they are the only unit of those 3 that makes sense taking more than one maxed unit because they don`t need to make use of "Showing Of" to get their full potential and are quite cheap on CP except the occasional "Loot it", which is fantastic near cover.
In my non-tournament area i had great success with 15-30 in battle waggons / trukks, but i don`t think they will work that well in a competetive field.
Their kinda allround profile makes them good against a lot of armies especially if you can get them to a point where they don`t need to move and get to fire on full BS.

On the subject of flash gitz, I'm trying to put together a freebooterz list that's fluffy and somewhat competitive but got no experience with orks at all.

Ideally I'd like to put everything in transports and will be bringing flash gitz for sure, but any ideas for other units that would work well would be a great help!

It's super expensive in $ per point, but mek gunz are even better than they are normally for freebooterz since they'll trigger the kulture, even though they don't benefit from it themselves. It's true you gotta be within 24, but it's pretty rare you won't be within 24 of your mek gunz with your 24 inch range gitz, certainly for the first turn. They also complement the gitz nicely, since gitz delete stuff T5 and below, but struggle against T7 and up (i.e. heavy vehicles).

Wow that was quick, cheers! Ok so Mek gunz are in too, will have to think how I can pirate them up to fit the theme

They're kinda like the cannons on a pirate ship, so I'd probably go in that direction. I'm sure you could find a spot on the model to attach a pole with a pirate flag, too.

I really haven't thought this through, but if you're taking grots for troop choices, even if your units are mostly in transports it's probably worth having a weirdboy with da jump to toss the grots in front of gitz that don't/won't have the trukk's protection in the enemy's next shooting phase. Even if it just causes them to waste a squad shooting the grots before they turn their guns on the gitz, it's probably worth it. They can also be tossed around to claim objectives. It seems pretty piratey too, like a psychic equivalent of shooting the grots out of your cannons. He can always toss some mortal wounds and deny too.

 Jidmah wrote:

Kebabcito wrote:
Last tournament, I faced adepta sororitas, dark angels and imperial guard. My tankbustas were very useful against sororitas and extremly useful against imperial guard (it was IG + IK), this last one was tabled first turn (my SSAG, SAG and tankbustas annihilate all his vehicles, and my lootas killed all his infantry). But sometimes I play against people with no vehicles and they do nothing.
[...]
Ah, and lootas were very useful in all matches, against all kind of armies.

Huh, seems odd to me that lootas work for you, but tank bustas don't. Both kind of suck when infantry models with good saves (read: marines) are involved. I rarely find myself with a lack of target for them though unless I'm facing eldar jetbike spam.

He did say tank bustas did great vs sororitas and guard. What I find odd is how they were so useful vs sisters? Well maybe they werent' valorous heart but most especially competive ones are so tank bustas would be trying to hit 3+(2+ in cover) save ignoring -2- Top of that sisters are nowadays infantry heavy army(over 100 infantry isn't even unreasonable proposition...) so tank bustas aren't that useful. Furthermore what tanks sisters have tend to be exorcist or rhinos.- Well rhinos can be good to blow but exorcists are tank busters so unless he's running plenty of vehicles exorcists are shooting S8 -3 Dd6 shots at infantry.

I would take lootas vs sisters myself.

i'd be paranoid about running tankbustas against sisters, that whole "ap1 or 2 becomes ap0" crap they can do and all.
Though i admit i forget if that works on their vehicles....

 Trashpanda wrote:
On the subject of flash gitz, I'm trying to put together a freebooterz list that's fluffy and somewhat competitive but got no experience with orks at all.

Ideally I'd like to put everything in transports and will be bringing flash gitz for sure, but any ideas for other units that would work well would be a great help!

There are some 3rd party producers that have some quite nice ork pirate heads, arms and bodies for conversions.
Mostly for boys but at least the heads might work on Gitz too. And you get some nice pirate boys /HQ conversions to acompany them as well.
For larger models i used lego pirate heads, they fit quite well.

As for tactics, Mek guns as said before are great to trigger the clan culture.
I tried Freebooterz lists as well, and used 30+10 shoota boys with mob up and Dakkajets.
They have enough Dakka to kill some screening stuff like imps, admech rangers, scouts and other low armour troops so your hard hitting units like Gitz get the full clan trait.
Or they get to hit on 4+ after the Mek gunz trigger CS. They also can "chain" the clan trait when you have gitz, flyers or buggies out of 24" to you Mek Gunz.
Mek Gunz trigger it first, then you shoot with boys / Dakkajet midfield, kill other stuff and trigger CS as well and that way even your advanced (hehe) stuff or tellyported units profit.

That is if you don`t want to mix clan cultures, as many units have prefered clan traits. Competetive lists nowadays tend to have multiple clan cultures.
Usually you run lootas and maybe / or one SAG as Bad Moons (double shooting strategem), Boys, Stormboyz and Warboss (on bike) as Evil Sunz (faster and 8" charge after tellyport / da jump) and shooty stuff like relic Shock Atack gun, other SAG, Morkanaut, Buggies und Blastajet as Death Skulls. (Because that clan culture is simply bonkers for low shot units.)
Blood Axes and Snakebites are - well let`s simply skip them unless you really love a Age of Sigmar themed back to the roots army or absolutely want to have drilled orks for some reason.
Oh and there is goffs if you want to have harder hitting melee and go full CC.

If you don`t care about being fully competetive or still want to go freebooterz only thats what i would go for:

HQ: Badrukk, KFF Mek, 1-2 Wyrdboys (to jump 40 shootas, 30 grots and / or gitz), 1-3 SAG Meks (1 with Vigilus relic)
Troops: at least 1 mob of 30 gretchin for Grot shield, 30+10 shoota boys with 4 heavy weapons for mob up and enough mobs of 10 grot to fill at least 2 battalions / 1 brigade.
3 x 10 Flash Gits with battlawaggons / trukks
Shooty stuff like Scrapjet, Shockjump Dragsta, Wazbom Blastajet and Dakkajet.

At leasts thats about what i field with Freebooterz, but to be honest everything expect flash gitz and Badrukk is normally Death Skulls if i play competetive.^^
In my more fun games i had a lot success with 10+5 gitz and Badrukk with full ammo runts in a battle waggon and 5-10 gitz in a trukk, babysitted by a KFF Mek which gives me a solid fire base.

There have been some people playing around with cc Freebooterz lists as you can trigger the trait in cc as well, i personally don`t think its that good because we hit allready good in CC but have more problems getting our boys and stuff there.
Freebooters nobs with weapons like power claws and banner behind them will still hit on 2s though, if you want to exploid the cc aspect.
Your boys will hit on 1+, which is a nice gimmick against -to hit units but as said before, i don`t really see them being useful.
A little side note here: The hit modifier works good against units that set your characteristic on 6+ like that sneaky asassin, which you will now hit on 5+ / 4+ because modifiers are aplied to the set value.

Things might change if PA gives orks custom clan rules with the chance to combine +1 to charge with some other rule.

Hi
A while ago I asked what base to use for Mek Gunz and I ended up using 100mm round ones. I must say I am happy how they look, but 18 of them does have a considerably big footprint...

tneva82 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Kebabcito wrote:
Last tournament, I faced adepta sororitas, dark angels and imperial guard. My tankbustas were very useful against sororitas and extremly useful against imperial guard (it was IG + IK), this last one was tabled first turn (my SSAG, SAG and tankbustas annihilate all his vehicles, and my lootas killed all his infantry). But sometimes I play against people with no vehicles and they do nothing.
[...]
Ah, and lootas were very useful in all matches, against all kind of armies.

Huh, seems odd to me that lootas work for you, but tank bustas don't. Both kind of suck when infantry models with good saves (read: marines) are involved. I rarely find myself with a lack of target for them though unless I'm facing eldar jetbike spam.

He did say tank bustas did great vs sororitas and guard. What I find odd is how they were so useful vs sisters? Well maybe they werent' valorous heart but most especially competive ones are so tank bustas would be trying to hit 3+(2+ in cover) save ignoring -2- Top of that sisters are nowadays infantry heavy army(over 100 infantry isn't even unreasonable proposition...) so tank bustas aren't that useful. Furthermore what tanks sisters have tend to be exorcist or rhinos.- Well rhinos can be good to blow but exorcists are tank busters so unless he's running plenty of vehicles exorcists are shooting S8 -3 Dd6 shots at infantry.

I would take lootas vs sisters myself.

Tankbustas focused mortifiers, exorcist were annihilated by SSAG and SAG (and lootas), rest of lootas an 90 boyz killed sisters, free win for me

Nora wrote:
Hi
A while ago I asked what base to use for Mek Gunz and I ended up using 100mm round ones. I must say I am happy how they look, but 18 of them does have a considerably big footprint...

There are roughly $5000.00 of mek gunz in this picture.

 Haasbioroid wrote:

Nora wrote:
Hi
A while ago I asked what base to use for Mek Gunz and I ended up using 100mm round ones. I must say I am happy how they look, but 18 of them does have a considerably big footprint...

There are roughly $5000.00 of mek gunz in this picture.

You might have one zero to much there but that's why I scarp-built them (except from two).

thats why everyone scrapbuilds them.
IF it was a 50 for 2 but you couldnt make the same weapon twice or something i imagine people would be less upset about that price (since kitbashing a new gun head is pretty simple).
But 50 for 1? thats gotta be a contender for the worst $$ to points ratio in the game.

New ITC info out. How do folks who are deep into that feel?

Playing chapter approved tournaments or ttm, ab only so no care about but it's still not good in my opinion

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i'd be paranoid about running tankbustas against sisters, that whole "ap1 or 2 becomes ap0" crap they can do and all.
Though i admit i forget if that works on their vehicles....

It does. Unlike chaos sisters get order bonuses on vehicles and the banner specifes just (order) units. No infantry.

So yeh they aren't too scared. Even shooting twice 15 won't take out exorcist. Rhino probably dies due to t7.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tulun wrote:
New ITC info out. How do folks who are deep into that feel?

Not much has changed from what i saw so likely orks gets shafted again in that anti-40k

Na still the same kill bases points blah self rdy secondary.
Only thing that I like is the gw rule deployment

Some interesting things in it, bonus points are far easier to accomplish, secondaries are tweaked a bit and now you have to take a maneuver one and a kill one then one more which can be old school or another kill/maneuver. Seize is Kaput, only two missions use fixed objective positions now. The rest are placed after you know deployment type and sides. When you table someone you only score objectives for the rest of the game. Conceding doesn’t wipe out your points , you keep whatever you scored.

its kinda amusing to hear people preferring the base GW missions over the community ones for various tournaments.
Usually its very, very much the other way around lol

tneva82 wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i'd be paranoid about running tankbustas against sisters, that whole "ap1 or 2 becomes ap0" crap they can do and all.
Though i admit i forget if that works on their vehicles....

It does. Unlike chaos sisters get order bonuses on vehicles and the banner specifes just (order) units. No infantry.

So yeh they aren't too scared. Even shooting twice 15 won't take out exorcist. Rhino probably dies due to t7.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tulun wrote:
New ITC info out. How do folks who are deep into that feel?

Not much has changed from what i saw so likely orks gets shafted again in that anti-40k

Mortifiers are vehicles and no order.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
its kinda amusing to hear people preferring the base GW missions over the community ones for various tournaments.
Usually its very, very much the other way around lol

Well. Do you prefer actual 40k or house rule ones that are shown to make balance worse with gap between best and worst increasing with Iron hands in particular getting about 10% win rate boost thanks to house rules.

Especially for orks official should be prefered. House ruled ones wipes almost fifth of winrate. Fun fun fun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kebabcito wrote:

Mortifiers are vehicles and no order.

True. They also die just fine to the other options and aren't in every sister list.

It seems like the changes to stuff like Reaper is positive, makes it so a full squad of intercessors gives you a VP.

And the fact that board control objectives can score multiple times in a turn is good for us.

But yeah, it's probably not enough to make the green boys top tier again. Not until SM nerfs and possibly PA.

One of my teammates in tournaments play GK, I can no longer mark all his troops for death :(

I'm thinking about what to swap for the battlewagon + tankbustas, about 400 points free, I've been thinking in 4-5 smashers and 30 kommando/stormboyz deepstriking and grabbing some objectives, bonus or just for blocking in combat enemy units.

Kebabcito wrote:
One of my teammates in tournaments play GK, I can no longer mark all his troops for death :(

I'm thinking about what to swap for the battlewagon + tankbustas, about 400 points free, I've been thinking in 4-5 smashers and 30 kommando/stormboyz deepstriking and grabbing some objectives, bonus or just for blocking in combat enemy units.

Hmm. I mean do you have coverage without tankbustas? Those smashas won’t last long.

I’d do Stormboyz. You can start them on the board or go deep strike.

I think I might try to do a Warkopta conversion of some kind for tankbustas. Dropping 10 down from deep strike for free sounds sick.

Plus you can give the Kopta a KMB. As a death skull, for 83 points, 2 deff guns plus a KMB sounds nice. Plus on the off chance enemies have flying, your TB can hit on a 4+.

Holy Gork or Mork, fought dose Valrus hart sistas for the first time today, Dey’s some ded Ard humies Dey is, one great rukk we had. Their ignore ap-1 and even -2 near characters makes them mighty resistant to our Dakka. Finished 26-31 with less than 20 models between us left on the table. Using the new itc beta rules, I like em.

@yukishiro, @grotrebel, thanks for the freebooter tips!

So far I got the following as a core;

Badrukk / warboss (maybe both)
10 flash gitz (at least)
Mek with KFF
4-6 Mek gunz
Bonebreaker

The rest I'm going to have to work on. I think splitting the army 50/50 shooting and combat seems the best way to go.

Also, should I be looking at taking 2 battalions at 2k? Seema like there's a lot of good strats I need to have really.

My 2¢ about new ITC changes.

* Deffkopta and kommandos are gonna be huge. Behind enemy line and king of the hill make them a great scoring unit.

* Gangbusters still feth up our men gunz (Kans are crap anyway so nothing new there)

* Zagstrck could be our Postman, same for Zahdnarsk or warboss on bike.

* New recon with buggies is a MUST

* Board control is so big now that we can EASILY have the upper hand

* We have the chance to build a extremely good defence army, just aswell attack army

* Wanna go full boyz or mecha, spam KFF is a must

* You can tailor lists to every tournament since TO can now use CA 19 missions , know YOUR meta

* Primaris bleeding reaper is great. Meganobz, unfortunately will do the same.


All in all, very happy about the changes. Might be a tad to unbalanced towards being the defender, but we LL see.

Side note, I heard some rumors (pretty solid ones) about 9th coming out this summer and the game being resized. We might still need to suffer those 3 gakky supplements for a while and enjoy PA for nomore than 4 months, so hold your wallet and play around what you have. This is what I'll do anyway.