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Made in bg
Regular Dakkanaut




Blackie wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
pepi55 wrote:


The MA mek that doesnt know what he wants to do combined with 45 points that cant be spent on more bodies means that this list just wont do.



I think the Big Mek in megarmor can be nice with pk, kustom shoota and tellyport blasta. Then give him the relic Dead Shiny Shoota and the Opportunist trait if you're Deathskulls. 95 points for a T5 2+ dude armed with a klaw, an anti tank weapon and that can fire 14/10 heavy bolter shots at BS4+ sounds nice. Can repair vehicles as well. I'd definitely avoid the KFF, a point sink with little benefit.


TedNugent wrote:Well, if you're taking the mega armor Big Mek already, you can actually make a better argument for taking the KFF if you're using ghetto boyz than you could otherwise. It's 30 points, which is the cost difference between 10 Boyz with a klaw and Snagga Boyz.

That said, yeah, Dead Shiny Shoota averages 2 dead marines at 9" and the Blasta averages almost a dead marine at 12". With Deathskulls that is in fact about 5-6 targetable wounds average, and you could reroll a hit to wound and roll at BS4. Plus he's cheaper than he would be by the KFF by 20 points. And he'd have objective secured behind 2+/5T/6W. I could certainly see the appeal. He's clearly the ideal platform for Dead Shiny Shoota.

He definitely does more damage in the shooting phase with a tellyport blasta and a Dead Shiny Shoota than he could in close combat. Even with Da Killa Klaw and +1 attack with a WL trait he'd still be at 2 dead marines in CC and less on average than Da Shiny Shoota. With a PK and base attacks he can level about a marine each round of combat, so that's an appealing combination by comparison.

I was still considering building him with a KFF and something like Da Krushin' Armor and Proper Killy. That would give him 4 A with -4 AP PK and 2 mortal wounds behind a 1+/4++ and still leave DKK for da warboss. He has a few interesting builds as a sidekick to da boss. Maybe magnetize the KFF and blasta and play around. The BS4 is still probably the most intriguing thing. With Freebootas he could be BS3 which would pair nicely with both ranged options.


This is useful feedback, Ill go back to the list see if I find anything interesting. I also keep forgetting we have BS4 orks now.....
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






Definitely the main edge BM has over freebootas is the 30" range tankbustas and flash gits. As any marine player will tell you, that bump up to 30" is basically enough to make your unit functionally work as a stationary gun turret, and you absolutely do want those BS4+ rokkits and deffgun shots going off turn 1 for those units to be effective.

At higher point values, if you went 100% shooty, freebootas with a different unit setup would probably outperform, which is why I think BM wants to be set up around a standard waaagh with a hybrid shooting/melee rather than the fully shooty freeboota setup. but if you're going strictly for in-game power I think theres very little to recommend pure BM over BM patrol+Goffs Patrol or Spearhead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Jidmah wrote:
Forceride wrote:
Hello, new player here...

On the discussion of MANZ, correct me if i am wrong, but they can use claw and combi-skorcha weapon at same time?
They also got a cost reduction if am right to 40 since claw is free? Is this right?
Also their CORE keyword so they can be Da Jump from weird boy?

1) Correct, you get a klaw and a kombi weapon or kustom shoota
2) 35 with kustom shoota/klaw, 40 with kombi-rokkit and 45 with skorcha
3) Correct.

So you could possibly table them in same way as dreads? Jump them and telly in scrapjets for support?

MANz can't make use of ramming speed, which is fairly essential to make reliable charges from deep strike.


Do bear in mind MANZ can be Trukk Boyz, which I think is 100% the best way to use them if you want them to be a turn 1 tempo unit rather than part of a big turn 2 crash. If I'm using Da Jump, what I want to be doing is establishing board control because the charge isn't going to be nearly as reliable. Da Jumping a unit of shoota boyz or choppa boyz into some decent cover, and if they make it in, fine, if they dont make it in, they're a solid brick of a unit that is now occupying a huge chunk of the board and will be very inefficient to remove.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 14:39:17


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




LMAO, ok...now please bear with me on this one...but I might have just broken the ork codex and i doubt it so please point out anything wrong with this.

Take your Normal army in a Battalion/Brigade but include 3x 10 Tankbustas. Also include a "Fortification Network" for 1CP...which apparently you get back if the network is the same faction and the same as your warlord.

Next, Spend 6CP to place 3 Big'ed bossbunka's in the Teleporta all loaded with 10 Tankbustas. Turn 2 you Teleporta down all 3 bunkas where they will have the biggest impact.

Rules for the Big Bossbunka says any embarked unit counts as having not moved unless they "embarked" this turn. So turn 2 you get 30 Tankbustas, hitting on 4s all within range of something for 30xD3 attacks which averags out to 60 and 30 hits. ALSO, the Bunka itself has an auto-hitting S9 AP-4 3D LANCE weapon if you guys remember what those were so you draw a line from the bunka to the nearest model in the targeted unit. Everything that line touches within 18' is auto-hit. And against most targets its wounding on 3s

3x10 Tankbustas = 510pts
3x3 Big'ed BossBunka's = 225pts

So its a hefty investment, but you get 36 T8 3+ wounds which have ramshackle. Between it and the tankbustas you have a max range of 18' (24 if you select bad moonz). If you are worried about chaff units you could also load in a unit of Burna Boyz which would dish out 8D6 S4 auto-hits as well which averages out to 21 S4 hits per Bunka.

likewise you could also put in some Flashgitz who would be 30 shots hitting on 4s (3s if you are Freebootas and kill something first).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 14:45:00


 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
Made in cz
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Prague

 Jidmah wrote:
I'd like to point out that discussing GW's business practices is against this thread's rules. Feel free to create a separate one on this topic in the general forum or pick any of the existing ones.


Oups sorry post edited to be ok

9000pt and one Ad Mech T-shirt 
   
Made in it
Fresh-Faced New User




 the_scotsman wrote:
Definitely the main edge BM has over freebootas is the 30" range tankbustas and flash gits. As any marine player will tell you, that bump up to 30" is basically enough to make your unit functionally work as a stationary gun turret, and you absolutely do want those BS4+ rokkits and deffgun shots going off turn 1 for those units to be effective.


Flash Gitz just scream to be Tellyported in turn 2. You drop them in a ruin midfield and vomit fire twice with the stratagem. Don't forget that the Freebootaz bonus STACKS so the first kill from someone else erases your movement malus while the second one boosts you to the 3+ we all love and crave.
Not every list will give you kills this easily ofc but if you're going full out on shooting it's safe to assume that you'll have one round on 4+ and one on 3+ even if you tellyported. And most "Proper" tables nowadays punish a lot static turrets, since there'll be few shooting lanes you're better placing them in an optimal spot for that turn 2 Speedwhaag! craze.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 xttz wrote:
So this codex has finally convinced me to start a Waaaaaagh and buy my first Orks.

At this point I'm pretty much committed to Bad Moons because the colour scheme looks like it'll be interesting to paint, and fluffwise it favours a lot of my favourite ork models like mega-armour & walkers. As they're all useful units the bulk of the army will come from 2 (or 3) Combat Patrol boxes when they're eventually released. The new Deffkoptas seem like a solid pick and should fit well with the clan trait, Deff Dreads are always cool, while any spare Warbosses should convert easily into extra MANz.

With that in mind, aside from some MANZ which units should I look at buying to start on while waiting for the patrol box to come out? While I'm not aiming to field a top-tier competitive list here, at the same time I want to avoid wasting hours painting up something like 30 grotz that will never contribute anything useful. Which do you think are the trap units to avoid in this book, and what else would work well with Bad Moons that I can go buy this week? Battlewagons? Killa Kans? Lootas?

Tell me where to spend my teef!


Hard to tell honestly, but getting a plane box and fully magnetizing one for all four options is definitely something worth doing, as both dakka jet and wazzbom look really good and neither bommer looks terrible.
If you have already set your mind on bad moons, a SJD or scrapjet might also be decent for them, but hard to tell if they end up being the best choice IMO.
Next up would be ever-greens like trukks, dreads and battlewagons. You could also get the AoS weirdnob as a weirdboy (don't buy the finecast weirdboy).

If you plan on getting lootas, also make sure to buy a box of old boyz now - a box of boyz can provide the bodies to build all the burnas in addition to lootas. This trick will absolutely die with the new sculpts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Zompa wrote:
 xttz wrote:
At this point I'm pretty much committed to Bad Moons because the colour scheme looks like it'll be interesting to paint


If you've never had the pleasure to paint Yellow may god have mercy upon your soul, for you simply don't know what a pain it is.


Indeed. Don't even think about painting badmoons without getting a yellow primer.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 14:53:01


Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






Zompa wrote:
 the_scotsman wrote:
Definitely the main edge BM has over freebootas is the 30" range tankbustas and flash gits. As any marine player will tell you, that bump up to 30" is basically enough to make your unit functionally work as a stationary gun turret, and you absolutely do want those BS4+ rokkits and deffgun shots going off turn 1 for those units to be effective.


Flash Gitz just scream to be Tellyported in turn 2. You drop them in a ruin midfield and vomit fire twice with the stratagem. Don't forget that the Freebootaz bonus STACKS so the first kill from someone else erases your movement malus while the second one boosts you to the 3+ we all love and crave.
Not every list will give you kills this easily ofc but if you're going full out on shooting it's safe to assume that you'll have one round on 4+ and one on 3+ even if you tellyported. And most "Proper" tables nowadays punish a lot static turrets, since there'll be few shooting lanes you're better placing them in an optimal spot for that turn 2 Speedwhaag! craze.


Oh, Don't worry, I am literally already kitbashing the Idoneth Deepkin special terrain piece to be a Big'ead bossbunka piloted by an incredibly exuberant kaptin who likes crashing it into the battlefield.

Turn 2 of every game against my army:

"Do you hear something, steve?"

"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAADVEEEEEEEEEEEEEENTURRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" *CRASH*


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Jidmah wrote:


Indeed. Don't even think about painting badmoons without getting a yellow primer.


Eh just prime white and use contrast paints it's fine.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/27 14:54:39


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






SemperMortis wrote:
LMAO, ok...now please bear with me on this one...but I might have just broken the ork codex and i doubt it so please point out anything wrong with this.

Spoiler:
Take your Normal army in a Battalion/Brigade but include 3x 10 Tankbustas. Also include a "Fortification Network" for 1CP...which apparently you get back if the network is the same faction and the same as your warlord.

Next, Spend 6CP to place 3 Big'ed bossbunka's in the Teleporta all loaded with 10 Tankbustas. Turn 2 you Teleporta down all 3 bunkas where they will have the biggest impact.

Rules for the Big Bossbunka says any embarked unit counts as having not moved unless they "embarked" this turn. So turn 2 you get 30 Tankbustas, hitting on 4s all within range of something for 30xD3 attacks which averags out to 60 and 30 hits. ALSO, the Bunka itself has an auto-hitting S9 AP-4 3D LANCE weapon if you guys remember what those were so you draw a line from the bunka to the nearest model in the targeted unit. Everything that line touches within 18' is auto-hit. And against most targets its wounding on 3s

3x10 Tankbustas = 510pts
3x3 Big'ed BossBunka's = 225pts

So its a hefty investment, but you get 36 T8 3+ wounds which have ramshackle. Between it and the tankbustas you have a max range of 18' (24 if you select bad moonz). If you are worried about chaff units you could also load in a unit of Burna Boyz which would dish out 8D6 S4 auto-hits as well which averages out to 21 S4 hits per Bunka.

likewise you could also put in some Flashgitz who would be 30 shots hitting on 4s (3s if you are Freebootas and kill something first).


That might not be competitive, but it's fething genius

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in dk
Longtime Dakkanaut




Danmark

Im very sad that Tankbustas cant be Trukkboys.

I just thought about using 10 tankbustas, 2 with tankhammers as trukkboys.

Drive up, move out, shoot something of worth, run in with 2 tankhammers, deal 2D6 mortal wounds.

Die.

Competitive? hell no. But the fact that tankhammers are D6 now makes me wanna try it

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 14:59:47


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






I really miss boarding planks as a vehicle upgrade - they used to allow a single model to attack other vehicles and monsters while embarked on a transport.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Yeah, even though today it wouldnt be as impactful i still miss it.
The old days of ramming (literally) a vehicle and deploying the "Kan Op'na" nob to instagib said vehicle w/o getting out are long gone and sorely missed.
These days it wouldnt be that amazing since a single klaw nob isnt going to kill a vehicle, but at least its attacks the trukk wouldnt normally get and still would hit fairly hard.
I find it funny that GW these days are all "No model no rules!" and even went the weird route of giving rules to abstract gear because it was modeled, even though in the past it was considered just generic greeble or alternate klaw type weapons. Yet the boardingplanks went away entirely, a distinct design feature of the trukk somehow does nothing. Confusing as hell it is.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 15:32:48


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






Can't give orks a boarding plank stratagem, that'd take up space we need for the 19 Beast Snaggaz only stratagems. After all, how would we play orks if we didn't have a stratagem dedicated only to being able to re-declare a charge with the Nob on Smasha Squig if he somehow wiped out a target unit using just his litlte ramming MW ability???

It's not like we could use that strat on any other units - causing mortal wounds on the charge is a super weird thing that not many ork units have!!!!

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in gb
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy




United Kingdom

SemperMortis wrote:
LMAO, ok...now please bear with me on this one...but I might have just broken the ork codex and i doubt it so please point out anything wrong with this.

Take your Normal army in a Battalion/Brigade but include 3x 10 Tankbustas. Also include a "Fortification Network" for 1CP...which apparently you get back if the network is the same faction and the same as your warlord.

Next, Spend 6CP to place 3 Big'ed bossbunka's in the Teleporta all loaded with 10 Tankbustas. Turn 2 you Teleporta down all 3 bunkas where they will have the biggest impact.

Rules for the Big Bossbunka says any embarked unit counts as having not moved unless they "embarked" this turn. So turn 2 you get 30 Tankbustas, hitting on 4s all within range of something for 30xD3 attacks which averags out to 60 and 30 hits. ALSO, the Bunka itself has an auto-hitting S9 AP-4 3D LANCE weapon if you guys remember what those were so you draw a line from the bunka to the nearest model in the targeted unit. Everything that line touches within 18' is auto-hit. And against most targets its wounding on 3s

3x10 Tankbustas = 510pts
3x3 Big'ed BossBunka's = 225pts

So its a hefty investment, but you get 36 T8 3+ wounds which have ramshackle. Between it and the tankbustas you have a max range of 18' (24 if you select bad moonz). If you are worried about chaff units you could also load in a unit of Burna Boyz which would dish out 8D6 S4 auto-hits as well which averages out to 21 S4 hits per Bunka.

likewise you could also put in some Flashgitz who would be 30 shots hitting on 4s (3s if you are Freebootas and kill something first).



i thought of this myself, however in reallity you can't deploy with 9" of the enemy, and can't deploy within 3 inches of terrain including other big ead bunkers which have the building keyword and are classed as terrain - so deploying 3 in a teleporter will be very difficult. At least that is my feeling.
I often in the past would put lots of units into deep strike like kommandos etc, and find it difficult to deploy now that the maps are so much smaller. And now with all the terrrain it would make it really difficult to do with 3 big ead bunkers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 16:19:21


SMASH  
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 xttz wrote:
So this codex has finally convinced me to start a Waaaaaagh and buy my first Orks.

At this point I'm pretty much committed to Bad Moons because the colour scheme looks like it'll be interesting to paint, and fluffwise it favours a lot of my favourite ork models like mega-armour & walkers. As they're all useful units the bulk of the army will come from 2 (or 3) Combat Patrol boxes when they're eventually released. The new Deffkoptas seem like a solid pick and should fit well with the clan trait, Deff Dreads are always cool, while any spare Warbosses should convert easily into extra MANz.

With that in mind, aside from some MANZ which units should I look at buying to start on while waiting for the patrol box to come out? While I'm not aiming to field a top-tier competitive list here, at the same time I want to avoid wasting hours painting up something like 30 grotz that will never contribute anything useful. Which do you think are the trap units to avoid in this book, and what else would work well with Bad Moons that I can go buy this week? Battlewagons? Killa Kans? Lootas?

Tell me where to spend my teef!


First... welcome to the Waaagh! We always need more lads up in here!

Secondly … Bad Moons aren't my strong suite, so aside from "More dakka!" the advice *I* have on this one's not so hot, but I can direct you to someone who's a big Bad Moons fan and who just dropped a long video detailing his thoughts on the new coex and how to use it for Mooning people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hfs_s6puEvg

There's a bit about knowing your local meta .. if everyone uses plasma weapons, there's no point in taking T 5/6 models with a good save as you're paying points for bonuses that those guys will avoid, for example … but, ultimately, it comes down to what you WANT to use.

Shootaboys are fun, but if you don't want to paint up 60, skip 'em!
The new buggies are cool, but they're *extremely* busy models that you might not want to paint despite them being strong in a fight. So maybe you skip those.
Maybe you love Grots, and despite them being non-strong right now, you want to put them on the field … then do it! Heck with the haters!

Your army is *your* army. Take advice, sure, but at the end of the day, put the models on the table that you want to use.
   
Made in gb
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy




United Kingdom

Beardedragon wrote:
Im very sad that Tankbustas cant be Trukkboys.

I just thought about using 10 tankbustas, 2 with tankhammers as trukkboys.

Drive up, move out, shoot something of worth, run in with 2 tankhammers, deal 2D6 mortal wounds.

Die.

Competitive? hell no. But the fact that tankhammers are D6 now makes me wanna try it


what we are missing is a tank busta special character like zagstrukk/snikrot/badrukk/mozrog skragbad

i think it would be really cool to have a tankbuster special character that used tank hammer like weapon for every attack did d6 mortals vs vehicles but didn't die lol

SMASH  
   
Made in dk
Longtime Dakkanaut




Danmark

But yes. Deepstriking at least one bunker in with tankbustas seem like an actually pretty decent idea. If i run Bad Moon or Freebootas, i will definitely be giving my big shootas a second look due to the speed waaagh. Quantity really is better than quality when throwing out that speed waaagh or combined waaagh from ghazzy. Suddenly your 4 big shootas on a battle wagon during a speed waaagh is going to matter.


So depending on the clan im using, i will be considering actually spending points on big shootas these days to get the most out of speed waaaghs / Great waaaghs. And i almost feel like a dakkajet or two would be mandatory to swoop in on turn 2 where you might throw down the waaaghs, and shoot like 42 str 6 shots. Unless your enemy has pitiful shooting then you can keep the dakkajets on the table from turn 1.

Dakkajets are true MVPs of speed waaaghs.

im still completely bummed out by the fact that infantry shooting dont get gak from any of the waaaghs. its probably not an oversight but it sure feels like it.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/27 16:57:25


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






I mean that really depends on a FAQ answer I feel. It's equally easy to argue 'modifiers apply to passengers, this is a modifier' as it is to argue that only -1/+1 to hit is a modifier.

Sadly it seems like gw is in 'see no evil hear no evil speak no evil' mode regarding the ork codex until the full release in ???ember this year.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 17:03:00


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 kingbbobb wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
Im very sad that Tankbustas cant be Trukkboys.

I just thought about using 10 tankbustas, 2 with tankhammers as trukkboys.

Drive up, move out, shoot something of worth, run in with 2 tankhammers, deal 2D6 mortal wounds.

Die.

Competitive? hell no. But the fact that tankhammers are D6 now makes me wanna try it


what we are missing is a tank busta special character like zagstrukk/snikrot/badrukk/mozrog skragbad

i think it would be really cool to have a tankbuster special character that used tank hammer like weapon for every attack did d6 mortals vs vehicles but didn't die lol

I’m not even sure what’s tankbustas role anymore are they a range static rockket shooting threat but the tank hammer is a great melee suicide unit to bad it can only take 1 per 10 models. Are they made to be mobile shooting platform? Doesn’t seem it. I think this is a unit looking for a new kit to find it’s role. Either all rokkit pistols and tank hammers or rokkits and gitfinders. A named character can probbaly be a combo klaw/rokkit arm cybork who survived long enough to become a nob leading tankbustas. Let these guys excel in short range anti tank explosive role imho. I also think freebooters weapons should have went Dakka as well.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






gungo wrote:
 kingbbobb wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
Im very sad that Tankbustas cant be Trukkboys.

I just thought about using 10 tankbustas, 2 with tankhammers as trukkboys.

Drive up, move out, shoot something of worth, run in with 2 tankhammers, deal 2D6 mortal wounds.

Die.

Competitive? hell no. But the fact that tankhammers are D6 now makes me wanna try it


what we are missing is a tank busta special character like zagstrukk/snikrot/badrukk/mozrog skragbad

i think it would be really cool to have a tankbuster special character that used tank hammer like weapon for every attack did d6 mortals vs vehicles but didn't die lol

I’m not even sure what’s tankbustas role anymore are they a range static rockket shooting threat but the tank hammer is a great melee suicide unit to bad it can only take 1 per 10 models. Are they made to be mobile shooting platform? Doesn’t seem it. I think this is a unit looking for a new kit to find it’s role. Either all rokkit pistols and tank hammers or rokkits and gitfinders. A named character can probbaly be a combo klaw/rokkit arm cybork who survived long enough to become a nob leading tankbustas. Let these guys excel in short range anti tank explosive role imho. I also think freebooters weapons should have went Dakka as well.


Theyre a cheap unit with +1 to hit rokkits....tankhammers have been a joke weapon for two editions now, theyre not a serious tactical consideration. They're less mobile than koptas or skrapjets but they don't lose any effectiveness for the first 9 wounds they take (because it's on the trukk) and they can make use of grot shields.

some kind of shooty unit in a trukk with a squad of grots standing in front of it guarding a home objective with some cover is actually a real PITA to take out.

"First, you gotta kill my trukk. Ok, you've killed my trukk, now 1cp for grot shields, you gotta kill the 10 T3 5+ bodies in front of me before you can target me at all."

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in bg
Regular Dakkanaut




grot shields is 2cp actually.

So turning the MA big mek into a shooting platform unlocked enough room for an additional 5man obsec unit for the Deffskulls list I was trying to make.

Spoiler:

++ Deffskulls Patrol Detachment (500) ++

HQ:
1 Big Mek in Mega Armour (95) - Tellyport Blasta, Opportunist, Dead Shiny Shoota

Troops:
10 Boiz (90)

Fast Attack:
5 Stormboiz (65) - Power Klaw

Heavy Support:
3 Killa Kanz (150) - Grotzooka, Rokkit Launcha, Rokkit Launcha
1 Deffdread (100) - 4 Klaws, Stompimatic Pistons


No more M14" deffdread but more bodies makes more than up for it I think....

Wait, can a big mek call a waaagh at all???

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 18:15:23


 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




pepi55 wrote:


Wait, can a big mek call a waaagh at all???


Nope.

Only a warboss or speed boss or Ghaz.

I like that big Mek build though -- thought of it myself. I wanna try it, as I think it can actually threaten some of these squishier characters (Ad Mech Marshals, DE succubus, Eldar psykers...). OFC, 12" is still a huge issue to get the snipe off.
   
Made in bg
Regular Dakkanaut




tulun wrote:
pepi55 wrote:


Wait, can a big mek call a waaagh at all???


Nope.

Only a warboss or speed boss or Ghaz.

I like that big Mek build though -- thought of it myself. I wanna try it, as I think it can actually threaten some of these squishier characters (Ad Mech Marshals, DE succubus, Eldar psykers...). OFC, 12" is still a huge issue to get the snipe off.


Wow big bummer. im scared that missing waaagh is too big of a penalty to justify a bigmek though....

That bigmek loadout was suggested to me by Blackie and TedNugent i was too busy forgetting the BS4 they got hahah
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






The first HQ in any detachment definitely 100% needs to be a warboss, but I think megamek is a better contender for 'what do I do with my second hq in a battlion' than initially I suspected.

Particularly given how many of my lists are featuring the ol' trukk boyz. Having the megamek there to make use of the transport that's going to be very likely to be empty T1 seems pretty solid for vehicle-heavy lists where a weirdboy is unlikely to be a good option.

The only question is whether the KFF is worth it for the one-time 5++ pop over the tellyport blasta's extra d6 12" range rokkit shots.

my megamek is glued with the KFF anyhow, so that'll be definitely what i start out testing him with, but I do think it's a choice.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






I think a kff mek is mandatory for a buggy list if you want to go competitive and have a chance of winning vs tougher enemies if you get to go 2d.
-1 to hit for speed freaks, ramshackle and 5++ makes our buggies MUCH tougher than they look at first glance.
And buggies are our bread and butter, it seems.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Personally, I've bought 4 right away. And i:'m gona lend a couple more from a friend to run 2*2 scraps, 1 + 1 squigbuggy and whatever else I may lay my hand on.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/27 19:03:12


 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






So I know that the idea of Boyz mobs has been shot down on the basis that they are more expensive PPM and lost mob rule.

However, I just ran some math for fun.

10 bolt rifles at rapid fire against 8th edition T4 boyz with 6+
6.6 wounds
4.356 wounds with a 5++ KFF
3.62 wounds with a 5++ KFF / 6+++ FNP

10 bolt rifles at rapid fire against 9th edition T5 Boyz with 6+
4.356 wounds
3.62 wounds with a 6++ KFF
3 wounds with a 6++ KFF / 6+++ FNP

Food for thought. Naked boyz are as durable against S4 AP-1 as a T4 boy with a 5++ KFF.
With a 6++ KFF, T5 boyz are as durable as T4 boyz with a 5++ KFF and a 6+++ FNP against strength 4 AP-1.

Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak. 
   
Made in es
Gangly Grot Rebel




I think that KFF idea is not so bad. He will even repair them at all.

Yea, I know, we are not IH.

Thinking about 2 squiggbuggies + 1 KBB for covering deployment zone and overwatching someone who tries to steal it.

Orks 5000p 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






 TedNugent wrote:
So I know that the idea of Boyz mobs has been shot down on the basis that they are more expensive PPM and lost mob rule.

However, I just ran some math for fun.

10 bolt rifles at rapid fire against 8th edition T4 boyz with 6+
6.6 wounds
4.356 wounds with a 5++ KFF
3.62 wounds with a 5++ KFF / 6+++ FNP

10 bolt rifles at rapid fire against 9th edition T5 Boyz with 6+
4.356 wounds
3.62 wounds with a 6++ KFF
3 wounds with a 6++ KFF / 6+++ FNP

Food for thought. Naked boyz are as durable against S4 AP-1 as a T4 boy with a 5++ KFF.
With a 6++ KFF, T5 boyz are as durable as T4 boyz with a 5++ KFF and a 6+++ FNP against strength 4 AP-1.


The problem starts when you start factoring morale. If previously you could loose 10 boyz to shooting, now you'd loose around 8 + 3-5 to morale which ends up with more losses that are also more expensive. You also don't get the Green tide strategem which was the main reason boyz returned to the table in mid-late 8th and were still viable in 9th.

Morale issues don't show as much for small squads, though, so I think, if you're not running a Green tide, 10 boyz here or there are ok. The problem starts when you get to compare them with what got BUFFED. You quickly realize that 10 extra boyz that will likely just camp an objective are 90 pts that didn't go to something better. And if you want that objective, take kommandoes.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




The problem I have for boys stems that the KFF is now 85 or 115 points. If I'm just buffing boys mosty, I'd rather just take them as snaggas. At least they get extras on top of the invul, and they keep it when they outpace the mek.
Boys have their place, but it's not to be budget Snaggas.

I think you take the KFF for defending stuff like Buggies, though -- still legit imo. They can repair them too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 19:16:32


 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba







Blood Axes Battalion Detachment
Warboss on Squigosaur 145 (Warlord: I've got a Plan, Ladz! Relic: 'Eadwhoppa's Killchoppa) (Mangler Squigs)
Weirdboy 70 (Da Jump, Warpath) (Shroomancer Shaman)
Weirdboy 70 (Jabbin' Fingerz, Fists of Gork) (Boggleye)

20x Beast Snagga Boyz (Squig Herd) with Snagga Klaw nob 220
20x Gretchins 100 (Orrible Gits)
20x Gretchins 100
20x Gretchins 100
20x Gretchins 100
20x Gretchins 100
12x Gretchins 60

Runtherd with Squig Hound 35 (Scaremonger)
Runtherd with Squig Hound 35 (Da Red Gobbo)
Waaagh Banner Nob 70 (Old Makari)
Painboy 70 (Broomasta)

11x Stormboyz (Boingrot Bounderz) 121pts
Grot Mega-Tank with 7x Kustom Mega Blastas and extra-kustom weapon 180

6x Killa Kanz with Rokkit Launchas 330
Kustom Mega Kannon 45
Kustom Mega Kannon 45



............

..........Now hear me out. Hear me out.

I take Green Tide, I take Stomp Em Good and I take either Loot the Good Bits (if I've got 3 decent midboard objectives to try for) or Raise Banners, or Retrieve Octarius Data depending on what the objective setup looks like.

Stomp 'Em Good is ALMOST uncontestable by my opponent, because he's got like, one non-character, non-gretchin unit on the board to try and kill in melee. Basically any turn I manage to kill anything in melee I score 3-4 points. I can deep strike/outflank/da jump basically everything everywhere, so I can score lots of green tide points and gobble up every objective, and basically I use the hilarious firehose of the megatank and the 6-man killa kan squad to remove things that look like theyre threatening to table my sea of stupid stupid gretchins.

This almost seems like a list that might be pretty good at scoring points and winning games, even if it's got very little teeth to kill hordes

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in se
Screamin' Stormboy





 the_scotsman wrote:
I take Green Tide, I take Stomp Em Good and I take either Loot the Good Bits (if I've got 3 decent midboard objectives to try for) or Raise Banners, or Retrieve Octarius Data depending on what the objective setup looks like.
Unfortunately you can only pick one Faction based secondary afaik.
   
 
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