Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Here's my current collection of 40k stuff. What sort of army could I make for an AoS game?

-Bloodthirster
-Daemon Prince
-Great unclean One
-20 Plaguebearers
-10 Pink Horrors
-40 Counts as Flesh Hounds
-4 Beasts of Nurgle
-6 Nurglings

A Chaos Allegiance army.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Here's my current collection of 40k stuff. What sort of army could I make for an AoS game?

-Bloodthirster
-Daemon Prince
-Great unclean One
-20 Plaguebearers
-10 Pink Horrors
-40 Counts as Flesh Hounds
-4 Beasts of Nurgle
-6 Nurglings

Looks like you have about 2000 points that you could put on the table. That army should do well. Truth is the game seems to balance armies/units better than 40k.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
A Chaos Allegiance army.

Works for me lol so I would need the General's Handbook only, as the rules are all free on their App, correct?

 jreilly89 wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
A Chaos Allegiance army.

Works for me lol so I would need the General's Handbook only, as the rules are all free on their App, correct?

you don't "need" the handbook

And if you feel particularly lazy, don't even bother with the book, as scrollbuilder does have the points included in this system!

Yes, you DO need the book. ScrollBuilder.com will give you the points, but it doesn't give you the rest of the rules. You'll need the Allegiance ability rules, relic and command trait charts, triumph tables, etc.

The General's Handbook and Matched Play aren't just lists of points. Admittedly, you only need the tables plus about 15 extra pages, but you still need those pages.

Plus, it's only 25 USD. It's pretty cheap.

I would suggest buying the book as it has the everything in one package for a low price of $25. You could do a couple games without it though to see if you like it.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Here's my current collection of 40k stuff. What sort of army could I make for an AoS game?

-Bloodthirster
-Daemon Prince
-Great unclean One
-20 Plaguebearers
-10 Pink Horrors
-40 Counts as Flesh Hounds
-4 Beasts of Nurgle
-6 Nurglings

A nasty one.

And the General's Handbook is absolutely, 100% optional. If someone insists on you having it to play a points game, immediately make them show you the list they plan on running.

Saying the Handbook is optional is really just lying to yourself and other people.
Matched play is what people where waiting for and what they wanted. The numerous ways people tried to give points based on bravery,wounds or advanced math wasa giveaway. Matched play is how people wanted the game.

I believe he means having to own the GHB to play Matched Play, since the resources are freely available and chances are the other person has it. Obviously free/narrative play is an option but given the context it seems the OP was inquiring about Matched Play.

But anyways I would second those recommending a purchase of the GHB, it's pretty cheap and has a lot of good content.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I believe he means having to own the GHB to play Matched Play, since the resources are freely available and chances are the other person has it. Obviously free/narrative play is an option but given the context it seems the OP was inquiring about Matched Play.

But anyways I would second those recommending a purchase of the GHB, it's pretty cheap and has a lot of good content.

That's correct, I'd ideally be wanting to play Matched Play. So that being said, is the Grand Alliance: Chaos book necessary too? Or will all the app information suffice? I'm not very well acquainted with AoS, so to do matched play, can I just fill the points and then select a General?

The grand alliance book is not nessisary. As for army construction there is a bit of a force org chart. For what you have the only thing you need to worry about is having three battleline (troops in 40k terms) options. Plaguebearers and horrors are the only battleline you listed, so you would have to split the former into two units of ten.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I believe he means having to own the GHB to play Matched Play, since the resources are freely available and chances are the other person has it. Obviously free/narrative play is an option but given the context it seems the OP was inquiring about Matched Play.

But anyways I would second those recommending a purchase of the GHB, it's pretty cheap and has a lot of good content.

The General's Handbook is NOT optional for Matched Play. Sure, you can get the points online at places like ScrollBuilder.com, but you'll need The General's Handbook for the army list requirements (# of Leaders, Battlelines, etc), Allegiance Abilities, Traits tables, Relics tables and Triumph table. I've yet to see those anywhere... and it posting it online would constitute copyright infringement.

Your choices are to buy a copy, look at a buddy's copy or steal a copy (don't do this last one). Not having access to a copy isn't an option if you want to play Matched Play. There are too many rules that aren't related to the points values.

Or just ignore the allegiance benefits, which is good to do starting off anyways. And I literally just told him the only requirement he needs to worry about with the models he has. But that doesn't take away from the GHB being a good buy though, either up front or later on. Though I know several people at my flgs that don't own one and have no troubles doing matched play by borrowing it from someone else there, so YMMV.

We found buying the battletomes pretty useful - flipping between screens on the app was a bit of a pain... Again, like the GHB they aren't exactly expensive for the content (Chaos is huge!).

Or could you could just print out the screens from the .pdfs.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Saying the Handbook is optional is really just lying to yourself and other people.
Matched play is what people where waiting for and what they wanted. The numerous ways people tried to give points based on bravery,wounds or advanced math wasa giveaway. Matched play is how people wanted the game.

Matched Play is how a percentage of players, who seemingly could not handle the concept of "talk to your opponent and work out what you're both bringing" wanted the game.

Don't pretend for a second that the General's Handbook is mandatory. I refuse to buy that piece of garbage, despite the narrative scenarios and campaign ideas within, as long as it contains the cancerous nonsense that is points for AoS.

 jreilly89 wrote:
So that being said, is the Grand Alliance: Chaos book necessary too? Or will all the app information suffice?

I'd say the GA:C book isn't remotely necessary, and is likely already outdated, or will be shortly, as new warscrolls keep coming out. If you have the app, I'm guessing that's up to date with the latest warscrolls, however virtually all of them are available online as well. You can find the generic DOC scrolls here, along with the generic formations (which the GHB gives points for). Updated warscrolls - which are in fact PDF pages from the GA:C book - can also be looked up on GW's site by searching for the model and clicking on the download rules link below the pic / price. Here's the GUO's, for example. In some cases, warscrolls have been updated in the GA books (and thus on the mini pages), although AFAIK not a lot has changed for Daemons. Though worth checking. But like I said, the app is probably up to date.

As for where to find new formations, those appear in the individual battletome books, and nowhere else, at least not for free, that I know of. Which doesn't really apply to DOC yet, except for the Rotbringers formations that include them (I think there are some in there), and maybe a Khorne one?

I'm not very well acquainted with AoS, so to do matched play, can I just fill the points and then select a General?

The GHB outlines a few more comp rules, like limits on Heroes, Behemoths (i.e. monsters) and Artillery and required Battleline (core) troops, all of which scale by army size. And then also min/max unit sizes as well, not listed on the warscrolls.

- Salvage

 Kanluwen wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Saying the Handbook is optional is really just lying to yourself and other people.
Matched play is what people where waiting for and what they wanted. The numerous ways people tried to give points based on bravery,wounds or advanced math wasa giveaway. Matched play is how people wanted the game.

Matched Play is how a percentage of players, who seemingly could not handle the concept of "talk to your opponent and work out what you're both bringing" wanted the game.

Don't pretend for a second that the General's Handbook is mandatory. I refuse to buy that piece of garbage, despite the narrative scenarios and campaign ideas within, as long as it contains the cancerous nonsense that is points for AoS.

You're being very condescending right now and it's not appreciated. I have around 6 people in my regular gaming group. 4 of us have absolutely no problem with the mandatory sportsmanship style of balancing in pure AoS. The other 2 are min/maxing tournament players who don't enjoy the game when they feel that they have to intentionally hamstring themselves. Telling a competitive player that they can't do X, which is allowed in the core rules "because it's not nice" is just going to make him think the game isn't worth playing. Despite the majority (4 out of 6) of us having no problem with pure AoS, only Matched Play allows the community to continue. Our group needed a balancing mechanism that didn't assume the same level of sportsmanship between all players. You need to think of these things from a community perspective and not an individual perspective. The General's Handbook is absolutely mandatory for my gaming group as it is for many, many other gaming communities... including almost any scenario where strangers are expecting to be able to get a pick up game.

Also, tell us how you really feel. Cancerous nonsense garbage? Seems like your level of melodrama is about right for a high school play.

 Kriswall wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Saying the Handbook is optional is really just lying to yourself and other people.
Matched play is what people where waiting for and what they wanted. The numerous ways people tried to give points based on bravery,wounds or advanced math wasa giveaway. Matched play is how people wanted the game.

Matched Play is how a percentage of players, who seemingly could not handle the concept of "talk to your opponent and work out what you're both bringing" wanted the game.

Don't pretend for a second that the General's Handbook is mandatory. I refuse to buy that piece of garbage, despite the narrative scenarios and campaign ideas within, as long as it contains the cancerous nonsense that is points for AoS.

You're being very condescending right now and it's not appreciated. I have around 6 people in my regular gaming group. 4 of us have absolutely no problem with the mandatory sportsmanship style of balancing in pure AoS. The other 2 are min/maxing tournament players who don't enjoy the game when they feel that they have to intentionally hamstring themselves. Telling a competitive player that they can't do X, which is allowed in the core rules "because it's not nice" is just going to make him think the game isn't worth playing. Despite the majority (4 out of 6) of us having no problem with pure AoS, only Matched Play allows the community to continue. Our group needed a balancing mechanism that didn't assume the same level of sportsmanship between all players. You need to think of these things from a community perspective and not an individual perspective. The General's Handbook is absolutely mandatory for my gaming group as it is for many, many other gaming communities... including almost any scenario where strangers are expecting to be able to get a pick up game.

If you needed an "official style of play" for your community to continue, maybe you should have reexamined why in the world your community put up with the "two min/maxing tournament players who don't enjoy the game when they feel they have to intentionally hamstring themselves"?

General's Handbook isn't mandatory in my gaming group. We had a similar issue with min/maxing players who tried to push and push and push for the General's Handbook to be "mandatory" when it was first announced, when it became clear that it was not going to be they scampered away to Warmachine because they weren't actually interested in the game itself they just wanted to walk all over other players.

Also, tell us how you really feel. Cancerous nonsense garbage? Seems like your level of melodrama is about right for a high school play.

Cute how you started off by talking about my being condescending and it not being appreciated, then you start laying in with personal attacks.

You're right I'm "melodramatic" about this. But by that same vein, I find it asinine for people to tell new players that it is mandatory to buy the General's Handbook for AoS. Not one person has suggested "Find out if the local group uses the book and matched play".

 Kanluwen wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Saying the Handbook is optional is really just lying to yourself and other people.
Matched play is what people where waiting for and what they wanted. The numerous ways people tried to give points based on bravery,wounds or advanced math wasa giveaway. Matched play is how people wanted the game.

Matched Play is how a percentage of players, who seemingly could not handle the concept of "talk to your opponent and work out what you're both bringing" wanted the game.

Don't pretend for a second that the General's Handbook is mandatory. I refuse to buy that piece of garbage, despite the narrative scenarios and campaign ideas within, as long as it contains the cancerous nonsense that is points for AoS.

We got it. We have heard you stand on your soapbox for literally months and months. You hate it, we understand. I know its a forum, and full of opnions, but don't come in to this topic and literally add nothing but hate on the system of points. Keep it to yourself.

It has nothing to do with people not handling it. GW made a system with points, then took it away. People wanted points back, so like a good company, they appealed to the masses. It must have been a large percentage if it made the company put in points.

The Handbook is well worth the price. You can usually pick it up for around 20$ and gives a ton of content.

OP, I do suggest you buy the Handbook. Since it came out AOS picked up a lot and around here (and around most other places I know of or people have said) matched play is the way to play the game.

str00dles1 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Saying the Handbook is optional is really just lying to yourself and other people.
Matched play is what people where waiting for and what they wanted. The numerous ways people tried to give points based on bravery,wounds or advanced math wasa giveaway. Matched play is how people wanted the game.

Matched Play is how a percentage of players, who seemingly could not handle the concept of "talk to your opponent and work out what you're both bringing" wanted the game.

Don't pretend for a second that the General's Handbook is mandatory. I refuse to buy that piece of garbage, despite the narrative scenarios and campaign ideas within, as long as it contains the cancerous nonsense that is points for AoS.

We got it. We have heard you stand on your soapbox for literally months and months. You hate it, we understand. I know its a forum, and full of opnions, but don't come in to this topic and literally add nothing but hate on the system of points. Keep it to yourself.

I added more to this conversation than you have so far, buddy.

It has nothing to do with people not handling it. GW made a system with points, then took it away. People wanted points back, so like a good company, they appealed to the masses. It must have been a large percentage if it made the company put in points.

Oh please. Do you think it was a large percentage or a vocal percentage?

Speaking anecdotally, we had two people out of a group of twenty who wanted points. They were adamant about how "unbalanced" the game was, and continually making ridiculous claims and lists like people on these forums did(crap like "multiple Nagashes is OP and people will do it!" etc)...yet we never had that issue with the game.

We did have a problem with those two players though, even with points in WHFB 8th. They tended towards thinking they were super duper elite tier players...the first tournament they go to, they get the snot kicked out of them and they came back to playing with the "casuals".

The Handbook is well worth the price. You can usually pick it up for around 20$ and gives a ton of content.

OP, I do suggest you buy the Handbook. Since it came out AOS picked up a lot and around here (and around most other places I know of or people have said) matched play is the way to play the game.

Which still comes down to a point I made:

Nobody once suggested the OP actually look into whether it was necessary for the group he's playing with or not. Pretending like it is a mandatory purchase for everyone is ridiculous.

 Kanluwen wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Saying the Handbook is optional is really just lying to yourself and other people.
Matched play is what people where waiting for and what they wanted. The numerous ways people tried to give points based on bravery,wounds or advanced math wasa giveaway. Matched play is how people wanted the game.

Matched Play is how a percentage of players, who seemingly could not handle the concept of "talk to your opponent and work out what you're both bringing" wanted the game.

Don't pretend for a second that the General's Handbook is mandatory. I refuse to buy that piece of garbage, despite the narrative scenarios and campaign ideas within, as long as it contains the cancerous nonsense that is points for AoS.

We got it. We have heard you stand on your soapbox for literally months and months. You hate it, we understand. I know its a forum, and full of opnions, but don't come in to this topic and literally add nothing but hate on the system of points. Keep it to yourself.

I added more to this conversation than you have so far, buddy.

It has nothing to do with people not handling it. GW made a system with points, then took it away. People wanted points back, so like a good company, they appealed to the masses. It must have been a large percentage if it made the company put in points.

Oh please. Do you think it was a large percentage or a vocal percentage?

Speaking anecdotally, we had two people out of a group of twenty who wanted points. They were adamant about how "unbalanced" the game was, and continually making ridiculous claims and lists like people on these forums did(crap like "multiple Nagashes is OP and people will do it!" etc)...yet we never had that issue with the game.

The Handbook is well worth the price. You can usually pick it up for around 20$ and gives a ton of content.

OP, I do suggest you buy the Handbook. Since it came out AOS picked up a lot and around here (and around most other places I know of or people have said) matched play is the way to play the game.

Which still comes down to a point I made:

Nobody once suggested the OP actually look into whether it was necessary for the group he's playing with or not. Pretending like it is a mandatory purchase for everyone is ridiculous.

You came in here bashing people cant handle no points, pal. Wouldn't say that's adding anything.

The OP stated he wanted points. So yea, he should buy the generals handbook.

str00dles1 wrote:

You came in here bashing people cant handle no points, pal. Wouldn't say that's adding anything.

The OP stated he wanted points. So yea, he should buy the generals handbook.

Read the OP.

jreilly89 wrote:
Here's my current collection of 40k stuff. What sort of army could I make for an AoS game?

-Bloodthirster
-Daemon Prince
-Great unclean One
-20 Plaguebearers
-10 Pink Horrors
-40 Counts as Flesh Hounds
-4 Beasts of Nurgle
-6 Nurglings

Not once does the word "points" appear, now does it?

Oddworx threw a point value on it when that really was not necessary at all.

Except he does mention points HERE.

 Kanluwen wrote:
If you needed an "official style of play" for your community to continue, maybe you should have reexamined why in the world your community put up with the "two min/maxing tournament players who don't enjoy the game when they feel they have to intentionally hamstring themselves"?

Long term friendships. I'm not going to burn a long term friendship just because Games Workshop removed the majority of the army balancing mechanisms from their Fantasy game when they released a new edition. The answer was to maintain the friendship and find a new game we could all enjoy together. The community is more important than the game. Now that Matched Play is available, the game is again something we can all enjoy together.

Your community might find it perfectly acceptable to eject community members who don't enjoy new editions. Mine doesn't. We make a reasonable attempt to accommodate everyone. Sometimes that means playing different games. Honestly, most of the "Warhammer Fantasy" time has been spent playing X-Wing and Armada since AoS came out. Now that the General's Handbook is out, we've started playing AoS again. We're actually all attending a tournament together on Saturday at a local store... one of the first Fantasy events at this store since AoS came out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:

You came in here bashing people cant handle no points, pal. Wouldn't say that's adding anything.

The OP stated he wanted points. So yea, he should buy the generals handbook.

Read the OP.

Read the thread.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
Except he does mention points HERE.

Which isn't the same as the original post, now is it?

So kindly shove off..

OP stands for Original Poster, not Original Post. He asked a question and then followed up with additional comments. Yes, if you consider the original question in isolation, you win the Internet Award for Being Correct in All Things. If you read the rest of his additional comments, you'll realize that he specifically told us that he'd ideally like to use the Matched Play rules. Providing advice on Matched Play actually addresses the OP's concerns. If someone says (paraphrasing) "I need help with Matched Play" and then we give them advice on Matched Play, getting angry and asking why we haven't considered offering advice on NOT using Matched Play isn't really helpful.

 Kriswall wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
If you needed an "official style of play" for your community to continue, maybe you should have reexamined why in the world your community put up with the "two min/maxing tournament players who don't enjoy the game when they feel they have to intentionally hamstring themselves"?

Long term friendships. I'm not going to burn a long term friendship just because Games Workshop removed the majority of the army balancing mechanisms from their Fantasy game when they released a new edition. The answer was to maintain the friendship and find a new game we could all enjoy together. The community is more important than the game. Now that Matched Play is available, the game is again something we can all enjoy together.

If your "long term friends" couldn't make an effort to try something before some magic book comes out with arbitrary numbers to play a game, I would genuinely say that's your own damn problem.

Your community might find it perfectly acceptable to eject community members who don't enjoy new editions. Mine doesn't. We make a reasonable attempt to accommodate everyone. Sometimes that means playing different games. Honestly, most of the "Warhammer Fantasy" time has been spent playing X-Wing and Armada since AoS came out. Now that the General's Handbook is out, we've started playing AoS again. We're actually all attending a tournament together on Saturday at a local store... one of the first Fantasy events at this store since AoS came out.

A "reasonable attempt to accommodate everyone" does not mean the same as "bending over backwards to accommodate someone who makes no effort to mesh with what the group does and insists that everything be done their way".


My community found it perfectly acceptable to not bend over backwards for two people who talked big talk, got trounced in a tournament during the previous edition and only proceeded to show up for games of 40k/WHFB when they could arrange games against new players or when they knew they could not play at either of the two local shops because of tournaments going on.

 Kanluwen wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:

You came in here bashing people cant handle no points, pal. Wouldn't say that's adding anything.

The OP stated he wanted points. So yea, he should buy the generals handbook.

Read the OP.

Read the thread.

OP means Original Post as well as Original Poster, Kriswall.

Fascinating as this brief little diversion has been, it'd be better for all concerned if we returned to the actual topic.

Thank you.

Sorry Red. You posted as I posted.