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I've usually made a habit of after all my units are on the table I give the opponent a quick run down of the main points of each unit; This unit is shooty, this unit is choppy, this unit has haywire, this unit can cause instant death and so and so forth. So I was just wondering to what extent do you explain what's on your side of the table to your opponent, for example do you disclose how many special weapons you have (''Vanguard Squad with 3 Arc Rifles'') or just say ''This unit can take on vehicles'' or do you do neither and let them learn the hard way?

This has kinda became a more important topic for me since I've started Harlequins, since above all Harlequin wargear is quite simply weird. Since the first time I dropped a Solitaire on someone and had to explain ''This attack is Str 6 Ap 2 and insta-death on 6's, 6's to hit auto wound at Ap 2, he moves 12", has eternal warrior, 6 attacks base and can move D6xturn number and gain 10 attacks once per game'' and there face just dropped and they became really salty about 'Eldar cheese'. Now I feel like I need to start each game with a disclaimer about what everything does.

And also even if you offered this courtesy usually would you restrain from giving this advice in a tournament?

"This is a unit of three Crisis suits armed with two plasma rifles each with one upgraded to a Shas'vre".

That's about as far as I'll go. If they have any questions about stats, special rules and so on I'll be happy to answer them.

As for tactical advice if the guy was new or had no experience with the unit I would offer it. But in a tournament? Nope. If you want tactical advice you should've done your homework beforehand.

I never explicitly state the unit's purpose, but I give a good rundown of the weapon options I've taken. It helps that I usually take very little options on units other than Characters (whom I basically present a whole spreadsheet to). This is so that if I need to make an on-the-fly change to my battle plans (like say, the Fire Dragons are out of range from a tank but is perfectly within range of a smallish unit with no invul saves or cover saves) I'll go for it just to weird out my opponent.

My stuff is reasonably well known in my local gaming community (I'm the Cheesemongerer there ) but back when it wasn't, I would give a brief overview of what I had and their goals in a game.

My Daemon stuff, for instance, was the following (with explanations after).

George-Pimped out Daemon Prince of Nurgle
This guy is a CC monster, with Instant Death, a 12" move, and a 2+ Jink save. He rolls on Biomancy.

Morgy-Same as George
This guy is the same as George, but he likes to fly and use Psychic Shriek to mess you up. He rolls on Telepathy.

Archy-Same as George.
This guy is pretty much George Two, Electric Boogaloo.

New Guy-Same as Morgy.
Morgy Two, Electric Boogaloo.

7 Sets of 3 Nurglings
These guys are there to hold objectives, eat overwatch, and generally be annoying. They are not very powerful, but are hard to kill unless you have S6 or above.

Herald of Nurgle-With ML 2 and the Portalglyph
He's going to sit back and summon units with spare Warp Charges. He also has the Portalglyph, which can summon more guys.

Plaguebearers-They get summoned.
These guys are like Nurglings, basically.

Plague Drones
These guys are REALLY FLIPPING HARD TO KILL, and do decent damage. S10 really helps against them.

In game, if my opponent ever had questions (whether it be "What's that do again?" or "What should I shoot at?") I would answer them as best I could.

Never been to a tournament, though.

Before the game we'll each talk about what's in our lists and swap documents, then once deployed I'll give my opponent a complete rundown of unit composition and wargear. So for example I'd say "this Trukk has a unit of 5 Tankbustas with 3 bomb squigs and a tankhammer, this Battlewagon has my mega armour Warboss, a mek and 17 slugga boyz with a bosspole and power klaw Nob". On all vehicles with an embarked unit I'll put one representative model on top for clarity. It's all very open and I'm happy to answer any questions people have later in the game about which unit is where and who has what equipment. I don't play tournaments but I expect all army lists are shared prior to the game and information must be shared when asked for, seems to make the most sense to me.

Step 1. Explain the weapon load out of non WYSIWYG stuff, gear that isn't shown on the models and all of my strange conversions..

Step 2. Ask if they are known with my obscure stuff.

If they claim they are and I am convinced or if they are smug then I am done. If they don't then I explain the unusually and quickly notice the nasty stuff.

This is Snugglez, he is an ex Goff with two Choppas which count as a Slugga and Choppa who's very mean and nasty; this is Spooka, he used to be a Blood Axe but now tries to sneak around with a whirry Big Choppa; this is Brashface, he's the Bad Moon leader of the Nob squad and has a tendency to boss around the other two while levelling hefty Teef fines at them to show them where the best fighting is. He also has a Big Choppa and a Kustom Twin Linked Shoota that I built from a Dakkagun...

This is how I shall always describe my 3 man Nob Squad in the future

In all seriousness, just a quick summary is all I needed to say, as when I was playing full games of 40k, most of my stuff was WYSIWYG. I usually would just let my opponents ask before or during the game, whether they be about what my unit does or what they're equipped with, otherwise they just got "this is a 3 man Nob squad geared for close combat. Obviously".

G.A

I usually identify each unit, mention anything that isn't WYSIWYG, and ask if my opponent knows what things are or if I should walk through anything in more detail.

If your opponent starts grumbling about the cheesiness of a given unit before the game I'd suggest pointing out the downsides along with the upsides (Ex. (for the Solitarie) "yeah, but three T3 wounds with EW and a 3++ are pretty easy to batter through, and he's one of a kind, costs a hundred and fifty points, and can't join units or be joined by other ICs").

I vary it with each opponent to tell them as much as they want to know. In friendly games, I will try to warn people about 'sucker punch' units, that might have more going on than is readily apparent.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
I usually identify each unit, mention anything that isn't WYSIWYG, and ask if my opponent knows what things are or if I should walk through anything in more detail.

If your opponent starts grumbling about the cheesiness of a given unit before the game I'd suggest pointing out the downsides along with the upsides (Ex. (for the Solitarie) "yeah, but three T3 wounds with EW and a 3++ are pretty easy to batter through, and he's one of a kind, costs a hundred and fifty points, and can't join units or be joined by other ICs").

A Solitaire can't be joined by units? What madness is this? /sarcasm

I actually once played against a Harley player who did join his Solitaire with a squad (and while I THINK-correct me if wrong-there's a formation that lets you do that, he wasn't running it) and, knowing how little fluff matches with gameplay, I just shrugged and accepted it. He later apologized, since he was actually cheating, but it wasn't a big deal.

The reasons for this.

- I don't want to surprise my opponent with obscure rules or "hidden" special gear
- I don't want to be that dude who is explaining all basic stuff the other player already knows.
- I enjoy making fun of smug players who claim to "know things" when they clearly don't.

Due to my model being highly customized. Its not 100% obvious what each tank actually is.

But I quickly explain " This is a(n) X and has X weapons (sponsons, hunter killer, whatever)".

If they ask again mid battle, I just tell them again, I have no problem with it.

I also like stating only upgrades because sometimes base units have funky stuff that people forget about. Like Plague Marines and their POISONED Plague Knives.

I had a fun time when someone thought charging them with his I2 monstrous Creature was a good idea (especially since he only asked if they were still "S4"). A good few shivvings later his beast died a painful and slow death.

I usually go unit by unit ala "Five raptors, mark of tzeentch, meltagun" and if there eyes don't glaze over I leave it at that if they have further questions about what weapons do, range etc I'll tell them but outside or relics that's rare

I just say what each squad is (e.g Tactical Squad, Bike Squad etc), since I mainly play Marines, and everyone knows what they do. Occasionally, I'll have to explain IF Chapter Tactics, but that's mainly it. It especially helps if you strictly stick to WYSIWYG.

JNAProductions wrote:
...I actually once played against a Harley player who did join his Solitaire with a squad (and while I THINK-correct me if wrong-there's a formation that lets you do that, he wasn't running it)...

No formation, unfortunately. The best thing a formation can give the Solitaire is Stealth/Shrouded from Heroes' Path (which is nice, but not particularly game-breaking when he's running with a 3++ already)

 AnomanderRake wrote:
No formation, unfortunately. The best thing a formation can give the Solitaire is Stealth/Shrouded from Heroes' Path (which is nice, but not particularly game-breaking when he's running with a 3++ already)

Ah, okay. Thanks for letting me know.

Normaly like that in the beginning of a game:
Unitname+equipment. If my opponent wanna know more, he has to ask.

Tactical advice only before or after a game. For obvious reasons.

What kind folk you all are.

If I'm playing a beginner, I'll give much more information out, because it will make the game more even, and hopefully more fun.

If I'm playing a veteran, I'll answer any questions, but MAY not go beyond "Are you familiar with this army's codex?" in terms of volunteering information.

It doesn't really mater if it is a beginner or not. A player clearly not familiar with the the stuff will get the information he will need to play the game*. I don't want to win a game by an action that is followed by WHUT I DID NOT KNOW THAT THEY COULD DO THAT :\

There isn't really a big difference in most "vet" and beginner knowledge on the obscure tricks of the more unusual armies. But pls don't explain all your obvious special issue gear, special rules and tricks just because you are proud of it.



* unless he is just asking not to get it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For example most of you guys are vets but how many would actually know what kind of strange bonuses my Inq daemon sword is able to give, what the The Tome of Vethric does or the S and AP values of my random Daemonhost powers. And you sure would like to know the Hallucinatory grenade table if you haven't seen them before.

But no body is ever going to be interested in that new spiffy piece of death watch gear that has been buzzing over the internet for the last month.

I usually explain gladly, what profile a Photon Thruster or a Plasma Fussil has or what a Machinator Array does. When he asks.
But I don´t explain the whole fething Redbook during a game. Because there is too much stuff in it. It would take hours!

And there are two reasons, why I don´t explain my tactics during my game:
First, I usually have a very complex and interlocking tactic.
Second, it would be not wise to do something like that.

As a courtesy, I identify every unit and what wargear they have, no matter how WYSIWYG they are. Not all of us have good eyesight, and having to hunch down over the table and squint to see what gun a dude is carrying is not always good for our backs, either.
Yeah, it sucks turning into an old gamer.

On the explanation of tactics

There are two sorts of things that you could consider tactics. Actual tactics, like i like to lure you into a trap by baiting you to move to this spot on the table so that I can do some horrible nasty stuff you your army with some cleverly placed units. Or some elaborate plot to tank shock something to death. These sort of things, I will never ever reveal beforehand.

And there are mtg (special) rule stacking "combo style" - tactics or if some players like to call them.

 Ankhalagon wrote:

First, I usually have a very complex and interlocking tactic.

Most parts of those interlocking things aren't tactics really. They are just shenanigans. like debuffing someones to LD 2 wit before finishing the trick with some psy powers,using open topped vehicle rules to BBQ some poor unit. or some insane stats by stacking bonuses. These sort of things I will explain at least partly in casual games to players who are not likely to get it and don't work on my nerves..
I might for example explain how open topped vehicles work with shooting passengers, and that all burna's carry flamers, and I might even go as far as saying that its a good combo to the extreme beginner but I will not add it up for them.

Usually depends on who im playing and how familiar they are with my army. If its one of the usual people I play with ill go over the groupings, any noteworthy equipment, and if they have any special formation rules. For others I tend to add a bit more detail as needed and encourage them to ask about anything they are unfamiliar with or want to know more about.

I play WYSWYG Ultramarines. I don’t need to explain a whole lot.

But I do. Start of every game. Point at every squad and give the basics. And will clarify if asked. Sometimes I will just use shorthand. “Full melta tac squad in a pod” is "Multimelta, meltagun, combi-melta sarge (non vet, with chainsword in his other hand) in a drop pod that just has the stormbolter, no other upgrades”

If there are a lot of options, I might just summarize. “The vanguard vets have an array of close combat toys”. I could go into detail that 2 guys are axe/shield, 2 are sword/pistol, 3 naked guys, and the sarge with a LC/SS combo. But only if asked. Not because I want to hide anything, but it just takes time I’d rather be playing.

While I’m reasonably well versed in other armies, I still like to get a gist of what their squad can do. I might get the names of the wacky guns mixed up. Nids and Necrons are the worst for this. That guy have an AV gun? cool. The other guys shred troops? Noted. I don’t need to know the S/AP of everything. Just give me a vague idea and lets start chucking dice.

 Nevelon wrote:
...Sometimes I will just use shorthand. “Full melta tac squad in a pod” is "Multimelta, meltagun, combi-melta sarge (non vet, with chainsword in his other hand) in a drop pod that just has the stormbolter, no other upgrades”...

This is an upside to Eldar, the shorthand is just the full description of the unit. 'Full Scorpions, claw Exarch' is as far as the unit can be described. (Though if you say 'three scatterbikes' too much people will start to get angry)

I tend to asking my opponent has faced Ultramarines before and specifically the doctrines and Tigurius.
If they say no then I'll give them a run down of how each works and tell them all Tigurius's rules up front.
I'll then give them a run down of each unit ie. "10 man Tacticals, plasma gun" then confirm all sergeants have meltabombs before moving onto the benefits of 1st company task force.
It doesn't really take long and is quite easy as everything is wysiwyg (the joys of magnets).
If after that they can't see I'm going to deep strike a shooty terminator unit to within 12 of the other first company squads and surround his most threatening guys before giving them invisibility/shrouding and rending alongside preferred enemy after blasting psychic shriek then that's on him.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
...and there face just dropped and they became really salty about 'Eldar cheese'. Now I feel like I need to start each game with a disclaimer about what everything does.

And also even if you offered this courtesy usually would you restrain from giving this advice in a tournament?

He got salty over harlequins? I think I would have laughed in his face. I mean could you imagine an Eldar Craftworlds player getting salty over warp talons? Hilarious!

Anyways...

In a friendly game I will give my army list on Facebook an hour or so in advance and offer to explain everything before the game begins.

In a tournament setting, I hand over my Army list and highlight which model has which upgrade (i.e relics and what not) and only explain abilities if and when they ask as I expect the same in return.

I usually just go over what each unit actually is, what they are armed with etc. I don't go into vast details about stats.

If something has a special rule that's out of the ordinary, I will make it clear, I'd also explain why they've got that rule, if I'd purchased a special relic, or they were part of a formation etc.

I usually explain the organisation of the army too. "This is a combine arms detachment" or "This is the ravenguard talon strike force" and then I'd go through what special rules any formation grants my units etc.

If someone has questions about stats, or rules etc I'm always happy to talk about them.

I've no interest in beating an opponent because they were not aware of a rule, or ability. That's just not fun for me, or something I find particularly sporting. I want to beat someone fairly and because I outplayed them. Not because I tricked them, or because they were unfamiliar with my armies codex.

It's not about people "doing their homework before hand" as someone up thread put it. 40k is an expensive hobby as it is, not everyone has access to every codex and supplement. If someone doesn't know about my Tyranids synapse and instinctive behaviour rules, then it's only fair that I tell them about it. I'm not going to advise them on how they deal/exploit it, but I'd at least tell them the basic concept of how it works.

That's not to say I'd go through my battle plan with them, or tell them each units purpose. But I'd certainly make them aware of what each unit was able to do.

Definitely. With mechanicus, harlequins, deathwatch, etc popping up over the last couple of years, it's not unreasonable that someone might not know an army that well.

And with so many formations popping up, that same bunch of marines with the same equipment might be capable of vastly different things depending on which chapter and which detachment they represent.

You don't have to telegraph your plan to someone, but at the very least, asking "these are [chapter x] in a [wierd-ass formation Y], do you know what those do?" is only fair - it takes a couple of seconds, and you know your opponent isn't under any false illusions about what he's facing.