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Luke Cage, Out on Netflix now.
I'm about 6 episodes in and I'm really enjoying it.
I've never really had more than a passing interest in him, being more of a Daredevil fan, but I'm still seeing nods to the canon in there.
There's a bit of classic costume going on at one point, which is nice.
Seems like another job well done.
What do the other Dakka denizens think?
If the thought of something makes me giggle for longer than 15 seconds, I am to assume that I am not allowed to do it. item 87, skippys list
DC:70S+++G+++M+++B+++I++Pw40k86/f#-D+++++A++++/cWD86R+++++T(D)DM++
Great stuff, I might have stayed up all night and watched the entire run.
That costume near the end though, oh my :/ Not being a prior fan, I can't tell if they were paying homage to something from the comics, or if they just ran the hell out of money, but that was pretty bad.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
So...is the only thing accurate the super power he has?! Personality wise, he's the exact opposite of what I've come to see in Luke Cage in all other media. It feels like I'm watching a show that decided to just take his name and powers, add in Misty Knight and a mention of Colleen Wing, and skip who they actually are. I've watched 3 episodes and I feel like I'm watching mirror universe Cage where he isn't a prick who helps people for a paycheck. Hell, when there was an offer to pay him, he turned it down!!
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
I like this one a lot more than Jessica Jones, though not as much as Dare Devil. I like that it's built up like a Gangland Thriller, with a super hero.
The slowness of this series serves it well at the start, but fails it by the end. Overall it was ok. I enjoyed both seasons of DD and Jessica Jones more than this, which is a shame because I was really looking forward to this. Misty Knight was great, but everything else just felt so sluggish.
Maybe Iron Fist'll be better.
timetowaste85 wrote: ... I feel like I'm watching mirror universe Cage where he isn't a prick who helps people for a paycheck. Hell, when there was an offer to pay him, he turned it down!!
If he turns into that guy, I will be happy. If he doesn't...well, the only flaw he'll have is that he can't save everybody. Also, Misty Knight is hot. And what a body!
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
I work a double tomorrow, so I haven't been able to dig in to it yet. But when I am recovering on Monday I play on demolishing this show. Really excited.
The series definitely peters out towards the end. Not to mention the mountain of contrived coincidence that becomes how many of the characters are connected. I liked the first half because it was like a gangland thriller with a super hero, but they tossed that a little past the half-way point by throwing in the bane of modern television; shadowing conspiracy.
Really for me it's the "Let's frame Luke and now he's on the run!".
I watched how many seasons of 24 where the main good guy is always being hunted by the other (nominally) good guys rather than them actually going after the real bad guy. I didn't want that again with Luke Cage, so it just felt like really well-worn ground by that stage.
The appearance of Diamondback breathed some new life into the show mainly because someone was an actual threat to Luke, but even that ended in a rather cheesy fist fight.
Overall I enjoyed it but it's a touch too political at times. One of the things that I noticed is that there's not a single white character in the series that isn't a cop trying to kill him. If the situation were inverse where the show was about a white guy and every black character were shown in a negative fashion it'd take a ton of heat. They focus a lot on black empowerment and unity of Harlem's poor which also includes a lot of other minorities, which I understand is reflective of the locale but in some ways I think rather than giving the message "unity for all people" it can sometimes come across as "unity for everyone as long as they are all minorities"
I think that it's a good thing that it addresses some of the current racial tensions that have been going on in the real world for a long time and some of the issues that the divide between the police and minority communities has created, but it's also being portrayed through a very narrow view and it can be a bit offsetting. Go ahead and portray the police as the enemy of the people or at least the blue face of oppression since it helps provide a backdrop, but if you are going to push the unity of people theme it should include everyone when it comes to the non police characters. To combat prejudice it takes the efforts of all people and races to embrace change. While it was focused on the plight of blacks the civil rights movement as inspired by Martin Luther King was certainly a muti-ethnic effort and embraced reaching out to all people, I think there are times where the series flirts heavily with Malcolm X type stance of aggression and exclusion towards the non black community. Personally I'm much more a fan of MLK.
If you look closely, you will notice Malcom X's name appears in the opening credits. I don't believe I saw MLK's.
Luke Cage is literally a "Black Power" super hero (seriously though, bullet proof skin and super strength). I don't think the message for the series was unity for all people. It was a more directed message than that; strive to be better always ("forward always" as the series says) and the series delivered it very much with an underlying political message directed at the struggles of urban blacks. I don't think the series was ever going for MLK, but it is very much steeped in the thoughts of Malcom X.
This quote came to mind for me while watching the show;
“When a person places the proper value on freedom, there is nothing under the sun that he will not do to acquire that freedom. Whenever you hear a man saying he wants freedom, but in the next breath he is going to tell you what he won’t do to get it, or what he doesn’t believe in doing in order to get it, he doesn’t believe in freedom. A man who believes in freedom will do anything under the sun to acquire . . . or preserve his freedom.” — Malcolm X
The series runs with that notion several different directions.
Spoiler:
Stryker who is struggling to free himself from his own hatred directs all his attention on Carl Lucas to the point of self destruction.
Mariah and Cottonmouth are both trying to free themselves from the past, namely their association with crime and illegality. Cottonmouth gives up as a very young man and plays the role, while Mariah does countless horrible things to try and escape the image, though at the end of the season it looks like she might have given up just like her cousin did? They spent the last 10 minutes of the last episode setting up another season XD
Luke Cage on the other hand struggles to free himself from something deeper than the above two, that being the overarching and pervasive struggle to be a better person, and to make the world a better place, while surrounded by things outside his control that constantly tries to tear him down (another Malcom X like idea btw)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/02 21:24:32
I sometimes think that all the focus on the blackness can get in the way of things. Yes he's a black hero from black Harlem and experiences all the injustices towards blacks and that part of what drives him but it's to the point that it feels a bit one dimensional.
When you look at superman for instance his story is that of being a hero with powers, it's not white super hero doing white super hero things in a white world to save the white community. The focus is on who he is a person they do include his past as part of what defines him but it's largely a background element where Luke Cage it's worn front and center all times. Being black is always what defines him first before anything else and I'm not sure if that's intentional message or just how the story telling reflects the writers. I think that Luke Cage could hold just as much depth (or perhaps more) if there wasn't the constant need to hammer the point that he's black. Even when he's largely dealing with only black people there's the constant reminder of black, blackety, black which never relents even when he's surrounded by people of his own which in theory should be color blind and just dealing with him as a person, not a black person.
Beyond the super powers they try to show that Luke Cage is an intellectual, but that gets lost a lot of times because they are too busy ramming race reminder. They bring up Bruce Lee several times as as one of his influences and while Bruce Lee was a powerful force for breaking racial barriers he approached things foremost as being a "person" who happens to be Chinese rather than forcing the identification as "Chinese" first then a person. Despite all the heavy thinking that they allude to in the series LC doesn't seem like he'd have any identity without his blackness as his primary (if not sole) identifier I think it'd be much more interesting to see the warrior-poet aspect portrayed with a bit more depth then it's currently getting. There's a lot of potential there that I'm not sure is being used to it's full ability. There's no separating LC from being black as that's his origin but they could show the "superhero" in him a bit more as opposed to the "black-superhero" all the time.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/10/02 22:12:15
I definitely think the cultured bad ass side of Cage got lost in the series, not because of the race reminder so much, but because the plot shifted from an semi-intelligent focus on crime and law in the hood to a "lets watch Cage punch some fools." Then the final conflict is resolved not by intelligence or cleverness, but because 1) the cops were brain dead in this series, and 2) the big bad got stupid and challenged a super human to a fist fight (when has that ever worked out?).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/02 23:08:04
LordofHats wrote: I definitely think the cultured bad ass side of Cage got lost in the series, not because of the race reminder so much, but because the plot shifted from an semi-intelligent focus on crime and law in the hood to a "lets watch Cage punch some fools." Then the final conflict is resolved not by intelligence or cleverness, but because 1) the cops were brain dead in this series, and 2) the big bad got stupid and challenged a super human to a fist fight (when has that ever worked out?).
Well, actually...
Spoiler:
...the whole point of the final "boss fight" sequence seemed to be to force Luke to try and look beyond his abilities, to realise the application of raw force without thought behind it is futile(a lesson ironically he was first taught, we learn in the flashback, by Stryker himself when he was teaching Luke's younger self to box) - he only won once he realised Diamondback's suit was being powered by absorbing the kinetic energy of his own attacks against it and started thinking about the fight as a battle of wits rather than of brute strength.
I think you're doing a bit of a disservice to the overall narrative as well though. The story transitions from a more straightforward "The Wire with Black Superman" story because the story, it seems to me, is about power and empowerment, and the limitations that denial imposes on the self. Luke doesn't fully realise his own potential until he methodically goes through and sets aside each of his illusions in turn; Riva, his own pretense at selfishness, his inability to acknowledge Stryker as his half-brother, his characterisation of his powers as a curse etc. Black Mariah, meanwhile, does not become a better person by the end of the series, but by dropping all of her pretenses and self-deceptions she becomes the truest version of herself(a recurring theme in Netflix-Marvel villains, somewhat mirroring Fisk's arc). Cottonmouth and Stryker, meanwhile, were undone by their refusal to move past their preconceptions and comfortable fantasies, by the way the stories they told themselves about their pasts defined and drove them even as they told themselves the opposite was true. And the broader thread running through the show of the Harlem community setting aside fears and pessimism to find power in unity and struggle.
It doesn't quite work in execution in terms of pacing, but I think that's to do with the 13 episode run, it could have done with another five or so episodes before Cottonmouth got intimate with that micstand. However, I think the pacing issues are forgivable given everything else works so well.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
Watched the whole series. Great stuff . Something to be said for the Netflix Marvel stuff. Stryker definitely has some daddy issues lol. While I agree that his costume was more than a little goofy, the fact that it's made by Hammer tech explains the look IMO. Traditionally, Hammer stuff has been crap (Iron Man 2- Hammer's initial attempt to copy Stark's suit)
stanman wrote: I sometimes think that all the focus on the blackness can get in the way of things.
Did you ever stop to think that maybe it's because Luke Cage wasn't made with you, presumably a white person, as the target audience?
stanman wrote: If the situation were inverse where the show was about a white guy and every black character were shown in a negative fashion it'd take a ton of heat.
Movies like that exist and have always existed. That the overwhelming majority of movies/shows feature casts made of almost entirely of white people with minorities relegated to supporting roles or bit parts. That probably doesn't bother you in the slightest, but when a show about a black guy with lots of other black people in it, then it just becomes too much, as you said yourself when complained that needs to show the "superhero" in him more than the "black superhero."
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/06 04:02:26
You know, it's interesting. People online seem to like it for the most part, and it's gotten good reviews on Netflix, but everyone I talk to (who liked/loved JJ and DD) have hated this show and given it 3-4 episodes and turned it off. I realize my experience is in a pretty confined area, but I think it's very safe to say that LC is easily the weakest of the 3. I can't possibly see how anyone could think otherwise.
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
timetowaste85 wrote: You know, it's interesting. People online seem to like it for the most part, and it's gotten good reviews on Netflix, but everyone I talk to (who liked/loved JJ and DD) have hated this show and given it 3-4 episodes and turned it off. I realize my experience is in a pretty confined area, but I think it's very safe to say that LC is easily the weakest of the 3.
I love it. That being said, I like it less than Daredevil but more than Jessica Jones (which I also liked a lot).
I can't possibly see how anyone could think otherwise.
Because, you know, opinions and whatnot.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
timetowaste85 wrote: You know, it's interesting. People online seem to like it for the most part, and it's gotten good reviews on Netflix, but everyone I talk to (who liked/loved JJ and DD) have hated this show and given it 3-4 episodes and turned it off. I realize my experience is in a pretty confined area, but I think it's very safe to say that LC is easily the weakest of the 3. I can't possibly see how anyone could think otherwise.
I just found it too slow. I didn't think it was bad though, and I certainly never wanted to stop watching it. It just felt like it was a very thin plot stretched over too many episodes. JJ had some bigger missteps towards the middle (the playing house with Killgrave bit was unnecessary, and the sudden transformation of Nuke from 'helpful cop' to 'total psychotic' felt like the type of plotline 24 did to fill time when things were lagging), but I never felt bored by it like I did with LC.
And even with the way DD season 2 lost complete control of its narrative towards the end of the season, I still think it was a far stronger show than either.
Oh well. We'll finally get to see some Iron Fist in a few days (I presume, with NYCC being just about now), so maybe that'll make things a bit more interesting.
What about its plodding points, dull moments, and complete disregard for the character's personality makes it an enjoyable show? I'm being honest here, SPJ. The personality is a complete 180 of who he is in the comics (they got his powers and skin color correct, and that's it), and it just kind of...drags. Huge difference between "bullet proof reluctant hero who is down on his luck" and "pay me, muthatrucka if you want these unbreakable knuckles to pound somebody!"
And that disregard for the source material grates on me.
It's the same reason I think Stanley Kubrik's Shining with Jack Nicholson isn't worth keeping around, even as a drink coaster.
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
timetowaste85 wrote: What about its plodding points, dull moments, and complete disregard for the character's personality makes it an enjoyable show?
I don't really have those complaints. Are there slow moments? Absolutely, but not nearly enough to kill my enjoyment of the show and every Marvel show has had that same issue. I don't have the same hangup as you do about Luke Cage's personality so I'm not bothered by his character in the show.
What do I like about the show? The actors, especially Mike Colter and Simone Missick, are fantastic even when they aren't given the best writing to work with. The music is brilliant, especially with the cameos of famous musicians in Harlem's Paradise (Charles Bradley was a stand out for me in that regard). Most of all, I enjoy the social consciousness of the entire thing; Luke Cage is unapologetically black, the characters talk about being black, and the narrative tells a black story. Of course, as shown by other posters in this thread, that doesn't always sit well with some people.
I'm being honest here, SPJ.
I don't think you aren't being honest in you assessment of the show. However, it's been pointed out, by myself and other people in other threads, that you often have a problem confusing your opinion with fact.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
Where did I call it fact? It can be, and is, my honest opinion. And I just don't get why it's as enjoyed as it is, because of what I see as glaring faults. So...basically you've just put words in my mouth in this thread. And on other "opinions" I've had involving Marvel movies...they've been backed up by numerical facts. I assume we're talking about Deadpool as number one, yes? Box Office records, amount on opening weekend, etc. had all played into me listing it as #1 this year.
And maybe the show will get better. I'll watch through to the end. But I find it exceptionally dull, and I swapped it out for Brickleberry. That should give you an idea how "blah" I found it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/10/06 15:52:41
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
timetowaste85 wrote: So far, my favorite comic movies this year have been the following order: Deadpool was top dog. Fact. Anyone saying otherwise had blinders on or was biased against him.
And this:
BvS was leaps and bounds better than Watchmen, which was terrible.
If you want to go by accuracy alone, DP would be the undeniable (except by nutjobs) winner of comic movies
BvS was great. Just not as great as you're suggesting, Para
It was a foul abomination of a movie.
Anyways, I'm sure I could go on since all of those are rather recent. Regardless, you seem to often confuse what you believe with what is true.
It can be, and is, my honest opinion. And I just don't get why it's as enjoyed as it is, because of what I see as glaring faults. So...basically you've just put words in my mouth in this thread. And on other "opinions" I've had involving Marvel movies...they've been backed up by numerical facts. I assume we're talking about Deadpool as number one, yes? Box Office records, amount on opening weekend, etc. had all played into me listing it as #1 this year.
Popular doesn't mean best and your opinion isn't the truth. I know that's a hard pill to swallow, but it's just the way it is.
And maybe the show will get better. I'll watch through to the end. But I find it exceptionally dull, and I swapped it out for Brickleberry. That should give you an idea how "blah" I found it.
And that's fine, since it's your opinion. I think Brickleberry was a dumbass show but if you prefer to watch that over Luke Cage, I don't really care.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
And I see a lot of my opinions posted. I only said "fact" once; and the box office numbers and broken records match that. But apparently you actually need people to write "in my humble opinion" or some other such garbage in order to read it as an opinion. I won't deny saying anything in the quotes you put; I did say them. Hell, I remember saying them. But not a single one of them, outside the comment of Deadpool being top dog, was listed as a fact. So sorry if you misunderstood. But the numbers don't lie on that one. If you disagree, take it up with Hollywood. I'm done.
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
I dunno, it hasnt grabbed me like the other two shows did. There are parts of it i really like though. My fave being Cottonmouth. Wow does that actor portray him well, hes a bit scary at times. The wife and i are enjoying it enough i guess but we both agree we like it last as far as the current Netflix shows are concerned.
Sure, if that's how you want to try and spin it, go right ahead. You've flat out told people numerous times that they're wrong because they don't agree with you.
I only said "fact" once; and the box office numbers and broken records match that. But apparently you actually need people to write "in my humble opinion" or some other such garbage in order to read it as an opinion. I won't deny saying anything in the quotes you put; I did say them. Hell, I remember saying them. But not a single one of them, outside the comment of Deadpool being top dog, was listed as a fact.
The best part is that you admit to writing all of those things and then deny that they mean what they mean. You flat out refuse to accept that anyone could think Luke Cage is better than Jessica Jones or Daredevil, yet lots of people do and that doesn't make them wrong.
So sorry if you misunderstood. But the numbers don't lie on that one. If you disagree, take it up with Hollywood. I'm done.
I don't misunderstand you in the slightest and suggesting otherwise is an attempt to insult my intelligence, which you can just drop. Like I've said already, making lots of money doesn't equal best. Avatar made gakloads of cash at the box office and that's a forgettable retelling of Dances with Wolves in space. Lots of pop stars make boatloads of more money than people that are more talented than they are. That's just how the world works.
Look, man, I liked Deadpool as well but I don't think it was the best comic movie of the year. Just like I enjoyed Luke Cage but I don't think Jessica Jones was better.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
I've only watched a few episodes so far, but I like it. I think I'm 3 in. Mike Colter is a pretty terrific Luke Cage, and I like the story (so far). I did like Jessica Jones better than Luke Cage (so far) but I suspect I'm in the minority on that one. My coworkers all hated JJ.
I can't wait to see Luke team up with Danny, just like the Power Man & Iron Fist comics my brother left me when I was a kid.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/07 09:01:10
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
. Something to be said for the Netflix Marvel stuff. Stryker definitely has some daddy issues 
Legion: Dark Angels 
