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Maybe I'm going crazy, but I swore Dark Angels could take them on terminators.

Is it just Blood Angels and Imperial Fists can take them for now?

Only true defenders of Terra would have access to such weapons.

IN 30k only the Blood Angels and Imperial Fists have access to them, and the BA have more access than the Imperial Fists.

And following up...

Blood Angel Heavy Support Squads can take assault cannons on marines?

As it says in book 6, any blood angels that can use heavy flamers can take assault cannons for +5 points

Yes they can, anything that can take a Heavy Flamer can instead have an Assault Cannon.


That includes pintle mounts on vehicles and Dreadnaught Heavy Flamers.

That has t o be an oversight... and the hand flamers on those dudes that never stop shooting too.

I don't believe it is, most of what is written for the Assault Cannons makes sense. The hand flamer bit doesn't because you dont roll to hit with a Flamer so he shouldnt get extra attacks.

Yeah, the assault cannons make plenty of sense. Its balanced out by the fact that those that can take them in large numbers(Support squads, veteran and so forth) dont have the ability to fire them and move. And those that do, cant take alot.

Yeah, because assault cannons fitted into power fists make lots of sense hahahaha

Other than that it makes sense.

Having Power Fists with AssCans on Dreads is rad and you know it.

I'd kill to have some of those

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Having Power Fists with AssCans on Dreads is rad and you know it.

That's one of the most Angry Marine things in the rule books.

I like it.

teban wrote:I'd kill to have some of those

Same

kronk wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Having Power Fists with AssCans on Dreads is rad and you know it.

That's one of the most Angry Marine things in the rule books.

I like it.

Hell yeah.

 teban wrote:
Yeah, because assault cannons fitted into power fists make lots of sense hahahaha

Other than that it makes sense.

It actually works really well from a modeling standpoint. If you use a terminator sized assault cannon it fits into the gun-hole in a contemptor fist perfectly. There's one in my gallery if you want to see.

And as already mentioned, it's not as game breaking as you might initially think. Assault cannons are terrible on power armored marines, so the "lol 10 heavy weapon marines with assault cannons" squad is actually awful. A volkite culverin heavy squad puts out just as many S6 shots, swaps rending for deflagrate, and actually has the range to hit something.

Basically it ends up being a buff for your dreads, rhinos, and speeders.

Take 1 Blood Angel Leviathan Dreadnought
Add 2 Storm Cannons
Replace Heavy Flamers for Assault Cannons
Enjoy rolling dice

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Yeah, the assault cannons make plenty of sense. Its balanced out by the fact that those that can take them in large numbers(Support squads, veteran and so forth) dont have the ability to fire them and move. And those that do, cant take alot.

Cataphractii siegebreaker says hi!

Cataphractii gives pseudo-SnP but does not actually give relentless to the squad you join.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Cataphractii gives pseudo-SnP but does not actually give relentless to the squad you join.

That was me mixing it up with the C:SM Cataphractii captain who DOES have SnP.

and you got what? Two of those at best? not to mention it is 24inches, so you have to get close, which means you are either footslogging or taking a droppods, which you eed a ROW for.

 kronk wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Having Power Fists with AssCans on Dreads is rad and you know it.

That's one of the most Angry Marine things in the rule books.

I like it.

To be truly Angry Marine, it would need to be assault cannons that fire power fists...

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
and you got what? Two of those at best? not to mention it is 24inches, so you have to get close, which means you are either footslogging or taking a droppods, which you eed a ROW for.

Man, twenty four inches with a 6'' movement garantees you cover pretty much of the table. A squad of 10 assault cannons is a HUGE area denial unit.

Lord Kragan wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
and you got what? Two of those at best? not to mention it is 24inches, so you have to get close, which means you are either footslogging or taking a droppods, which you eed a ROW for.

Man, twenty four inches with a 6'' movement garantees you cover pretty much of the table. A squad of 10 assault cannons is a HUGE area denial unit.

Unfortunitly, the Assault Cannon is a Heavy Weapon, and all the squads that can take them do not have relentless or some kind of move and fire a heavy weapon rule. So you are looking at a lot of snap shots. Even if you had a Legion Heavy Support Squad of 10 Assault Cannons, that's 40 shots at BS1- or on average 6-7 hits, and 1 rend. Putting them in a Rhino... yeah, that would be a pretty big target. If they stand still... that's only 24". Great squad for sitting on an objective, but...

My Sons of Horus use a 10 model Legion Support Squad with Autocannons. Yeah, I lose out on the Rending, but S7 48" range make up for it. They stand still in some cover (hopefully on an objective) and and start shredding stuff on Turn 1. They never have to move.

Overwatch is BS 1, not BS 6.

 Tamwulf wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
and you got what? Two of those at best? not to mention it is 24inches, so you have to get close, which means you are either footslogging or taking a droppods, which you eed a ROW for.

Man, twenty four inches with a 6'' movement garantees you cover pretty much of the table. A squad of 10 assault cannons is a HUGE area denial unit.

Unfortunitly, the Assault Cannon is a Heavy Weapon, and all the squads that can take them do not have relentless or some kind of move and fire a heavy weapon rule. So you are looking at a lot of snap shots. Even if you had a Legion Heavy Support Squad of 10 Assault Cannons, that's 40 shots at BS6- or on average 6-7 hits, and 1 rend. Putting them in a Rhino... yeah, that would be a pretty big target. If they stand still... that's only 24". Great squad for sitting on an objective, but...

My Sons of Horus use a 10 model Legion Support Squad with Autocannons. Yeah, I lose out on the Rending, but S7 48" range make up for it. They stand still in some cover (hopefully on an objective) and and start shredding stuff on Turn 1. They never have to move.

Even then the point stands that they are wonderful area denia. 40 shots at BS5 (cognis signum/master of signals) is bad business. Add a 4+ cover from ruins and you've got a solid unit that will be shot more than its points are worth it. That or get a libbi and pray endurance.

That's a super expensive unit that your opponent would simply have to stay more than 24" away from. For the exact same price you can drop a missile launcher heavy weapon squad, be only sliiiightly worse at killing MEQs and light to medium armored vehicles, and really only take a hit on killing heavy vehicles and TEQs, but have literally double the range. A 48" range squad is something your opponent can't just ignore or bombard out of existence.

Trust me, I play my blood angels legion well. The assault cannons are rad. They make my javelin speeders go from great, to AMAZING, they make my dual close combat weapon contemptors viable, and they make paying for a rhino not feel like a tax.
On power armor marines, for their cost, they blow.

Or you stick a terminator character with the unit and he gives them relentless as per RAW The HQ choice gives his abilities to the unit he is with so your marines with assault cannons are relentless.

Ive had this conversation recently with others. 24' is not super short. I really cant understand why people think it is. Table is only 4 feet wide, and most missions your each starting 12 inches up the table, so only 24' in-between you.

They don't "blow". I wouldn't take a army of them, but they are not a bad choice.

Rules as written (I'm copy pasting here):

Relentless (in its entirety):

"Relentless models can shoot with Heavy, Salvo or Ordnance weapons, counting as
stationary, even if they moved in the previous Movement phase. They are also allowed to
charge in the same turn they fire Heavy, Ordnance, Rapid Fire or Salvo weapons."


Slow and Purposeful (in its entirety):

"A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule cannot Run, Turbo-boost,
move Flat Out, perform Sweeping Advances or fire Overwatch. However, they can shoot
with Heavy, Salvo and Ordnance weapons, counting as stationary even if they moved in
the previous Movement phase. They are also allowed to charge in the same turn they fire
Heavy, Ordnance, Rapid Fire or Salvo weapons."


Relentless has never been an ability that you 'confer' to your entire squad if one model has it, and cataphractii terminators haven't had 'slow and purposeful' since that FAQ dropped, which is like almost two years ago at this point.

There is NO way to give your power armored heavy weapon squads the ability to move and shoot without snapping, so yeah, 24" range for a heavy weapon sucks.

Also firepower in the Heresy is intense. 40 assault cannon shots for the points isn't bad, certainly, but it's not greater. One typhon, Ordinatus, or phospex medusa and half or more of the squad is gone. A solid round of hitting from a quad-mortar battery will deplete the squad as well, and vastly outranges them.

Hell, a Leman Russ Battletank would easily wreck the squad in two or three shots, depleting it to the point of uselessness and keeping them from getting in range (as casualties are removed from the front).

You know when a Leman Russ Battletank is a credible threat to something, that something really isn't as spectacular as people make it sound.

Remember that every Marine is 4 shots; against the plethora of AP3 weapons in the heresy, that's a pretty hefty hit to the squad's firepower for every 5+ cover save that is failed.

Exactly. At least your missile launcher squad can get in a first turn alpha strike before they get wiped off the board, or hunker in a bunker for some survivability. Assault cannon squad can do neither of these.

Lets say you were to run a squad of 10 assault cannon dudes with blood angels... How does the jamming work? Lets say all 10 are shooting, do I need to roll them all separately to be able to identify when they jam? Roll all 40 and for every 3 1's one dude cannot shoot anymore?

You roll each Assault Cannon separately. So time consumption rolling dice for a 10 man squad could be considered another downside.

I agree entirely with Walnuts on this, they're a great support weapon for a unit that is already effective (e.g. dual CCW Dreadnoughts, Rhinos, Land Speeders) but as a main source of firepower they just don't really stack up all too well.

I own a 10 man Assault Cannon squad, and they're fun to play but just not too effective against equally other equally priced units.