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So, I know most people follow the "Rule of Cool" where if you like the model enough, you'l find a way to use it. Aside from that, are the Sanguinary Guard good from a competitive standpoint?

To me, for 165 Pts you get 5 Jump Units with 2+ saves, a power sword, and a 2 shot assault bolter with AP4. On the surface, they're like Terminators without a 5++ but get to move more. Am I wrong? Am I overlooking something that makes it to where people don't take them?

 Dark_Apostle_Spartachris wrote:
So, I know most people follow the "Rule of Cool" where if you like the model enough, you'l find a way to use it. Aside from that, are the Sanguinary Guard good from a competitive standpoint?

To me, for 165 Pts you get 5 Jump Units with 2+ saves, a power sword, and a 2 shot assault bolter with AP4. On the surface, they're like Terminators without a 5++ but get to move more. Am I wrong? Am I overlooking something that makes it to where people don't take them?

Well I love them. They are pricey and not as survivable as you think, I know (this being Dakka) most people will trash talk them into the dirt, but I find that people are very afraid of them, which has merit on its own, but they do hit really hard. Don't forget the power weapons are master-crafted too. Add a banner for an extra attack as well.

Strictly math - the Death Company are just more efficient. But if you already wanted to field Dante and a Priest, added to SG they are awesome. You can hit and run at the end of each of your opponents assault phases just to charge back in again full buff, full attacks.

The new Sanguinary Guard formation is pretty nice too, though you couldn't attach a priest until after they're deployed.

 Gunzhard wrote:

 Dark_Apostle_Spartachris wrote:
So, I know most people follow the "Rule of Cool" where if you like the model enough, you'l find a way to use it. Aside from that, are the Sanguinary Guard good from a competitive standpoint?

To me, for 165 Pts you get 5 Jump Units with 2+ saves, a power sword, and a 2 shot assault bolter with AP4. On the surface, they're like Terminators without a 5++ but get to move more. Am I wrong? Am I overlooking something that makes it to where people don't take them?

Well I love them. They are pricey and not as survivable as you think, I know (this being Dakka) most people will trash talk them into the dirt, but I find that people are very afraid of them, which has merit on its own, but they do hit really hard. Don't forget the power weapons are master-crafted too. Add a banner for an extra attack as well.

Strictly math - the Death Company are just more efficient. But if you already wanted to field Dante and a Priest, added to SG they are awesome. You can hit and run at the end of each of your opponents assault phases just to charge back in again full buff, full attacks.

The new Sanguinary Guard formation is pretty nice too, though you couldn't attach a priest until after they're deployed.

Is it the lack of an invuln that does them in? Me personally, I find it exceedingly difficult t pass my termie's 5++, lol.

I find it exceedingly difficult to pass 3+ saves hah, but that is part of it - the other reason is so much AP2 weaponry in the game now; or just weight of fire from like scatter-bikes for example.

The new formation helps because you can keep them tied up in combat early and often but it's not cheap to field.

You could look at them as 33pt Jump Terminators with no Invul, yes. You could also look at them as post-BA Vanguard Veterans who are paying 6pts for Artificer Armour and nicer guns, or as Honor Guard who are paying 10pts for nicer guns and jump packs. Given that Vanguard Veterans are made usable in competitive settings by formation benefits the Sanguinary Guard can't get I wouldn't say they're competitive; being better than tactical Terminators for the same price isn't exactly difficult, and it doesn't make them particularly strong.

They're usable, certainly, but don't take them to tournaments and expect to clean up.

 Gunzhard wrote:
I find it exceedingly difficult to pass 3+ saves hah, but that is part of it - the other reason is so much AP2 weaponry in the game now; or just weight of fire from like scatter-bikes for example.

The new formation helps because you can keep them tied up in combat early and often but it's not cheap to field.

Which formation is that? I just picked up the BA codex yesterday, lol.




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 AnomanderRake wrote:
You could look at them as 33pt Jump Terminators with no Invul, yes. You could also look at them as post-BA Vanguard Veterans who are paying 6pts for Artificer Armour and nicer guns, or as Honor Guard who are paying 10pts for nicer guns and jump packs. Given that Vanguard Veterans are made usable in competitive settings by formation benefits the Sanguinary Guard can't get I wouldn't say they're competitive; being better than tactical Terminators for the same price isn't exactly difficult, and it doesn't make them particularly strong.

They're usable, certainly, but don't take them to tournaments and expect to clean up.

from what I've seen, BA isn't very tournament competitive to being with. Thanks for the advice though!

It's in the Angels Blade supplement, or the in the "Red Thirst" edition of the digital Codex.

Angels Blade is actually really cool and fun but it is scaled for super big games, you can't really build good 'tournament sized' (1850 or 1650) games with it.

 Dark_Apostle_Spartachris wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
You could look at them as 33pt Jump Terminators with no Invul, yes. You could also look at them as post-BA Vanguard Veterans who are paying 6pts for Artificer Armour and nicer guns, or as Honor Guard who are paying 10pts for nicer guns and jump packs. Given that Vanguard Veterans are made usable in competitive settings by formation benefits the Sanguinary Guard can't get I wouldn't say they're competitive; being better than tactical Terminators for the same price isn't exactly difficult, and it doesn't make them particularly strong.

They're usable, certainly, but don't take them to tournaments and expect to clean up.

from what I've seen, BA isn't very tournament competitive to being with. Thanks for the advice though!

After a long, long series of arguments with a grumpy BA player trying to find the silver lining in all this I'd say if you wanted to take the BA to a tournament you'd want to look at using the Death Company meta-detachment and vehicle formation. Take your 18" of scout move and play to the objectives. Start the game in between the Relic and the enemy. That sort of thing.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Dark_Apostle_Spartachris wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
You could look at them as 33pt Jump Terminators with no Invul, yes. You could also look at them as post-BA Vanguard Veterans who are paying 6pts for Artificer Armour and nicer guns, or as Honor Guard who are paying 10pts for nicer guns and jump packs. Given that Vanguard Veterans are made usable in competitive settings by formation benefits the Sanguinary Guard can't get I wouldn't say they're competitive; being better than tactical Terminators for the same price isn't exactly difficult, and it doesn't make them particularly strong.

They're usable, certainly, but don't take them to tournaments and expect to clean up.

from what I've seen, BA isn't very tournament competitive to being with. Thanks for the advice though!

After a long, long series of arguments with a grumpy BA player trying to find the silver lining in all this I'd say if you wanted to take the BA to a tournament you'd want to look at using the Death Company meta-detachment and vehicle formation. Take your 18" of scout move and play to the objectives. Start the game in between the Relic and the enemy. That sort of thing.

Good advice. I probably would have tried to play them like I play my Chaos. Trying to kill everything on the board.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gunzhard wrote:
It's in the Angels Blade supplement, or the in the "Red Thirst" edition of the digital Codex.

Angels Blade is actually really cool and fun but it is scaled for super big games, you can't really build good 'tournament sized' (1850 or 1650) games with it.

Thanks! I'll take a look and see what I can come up with.

They are arguably efficient if you keep them naked. Start giving them stuff and it goes down hill fast.

Martel732 wrote:
They are arguably efficient if you keep them naked. Start giving them stuff and it goes down hill fast.

That's kind of what I was thinking. I'd probably keep them bare and attach Dante to them, or a Jump Chaplain and Priest.

If you attach Dante, you can plurge on pistols because he can tank for them AND give hit and run. The priest isn't that useful, imo.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Dark_Apostle_Spartachris wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
You could look at them as 33pt Jump Terminators with no Invul, yes. You could also look at them as post-BA Vanguard Veterans who are paying 6pts for Artificer Armour and nicer guns, or as Honor Guard who are paying 10pts for nicer guns and jump packs. Given that Vanguard Veterans are made usable in competitive settings by formation benefits the Sanguinary Guard can't get I wouldn't say they're competitive; being better than tactical Terminators for the same price isn't exactly difficult, and it doesn't make them particularly strong.

They're usable, certainly, but don't take them to tournaments and expect to clean up.

from what I've seen, BA isn't very tournament competitive to being with. Thanks for the advice though!

After a long, long series of arguments with a grumpy BA player trying to find the silver lining in all this I'd say if you wanted to take the BA to a tournament you'd want to look at using the Death Company meta-detachment and vehicle formation. Take your 18" of scout move and play to the objectives. Start the game in between the Relic and the enemy. That sort of thing.

A good portion of the competitive scene that know BA (including myself) tend to agree that their strongest foot forward out of their own book is still just pod spam. Just tell people you didn't buy the AB book so you can run the pre-nerf meltacide asm, toss in some fragiosos, and you should make it to 3-3 or maybe 4-2 out of a 6 round GT if you are good and didn't tick off the dice or matchup gods, So basically you'll beat the pure hobbyists and the mediocre players. Also typical upper table eldar lists don't like facing pod spam, so there's a decent matchup that you can hope to run into. Unfortunately you'll tend to bounce right off necron decurions like a passed armor save, and there are other marine armies that can do podding better with the use of gladius/skyhammer/blackmanes etc, save for that they are a little envious of the fragiosos. (Although tiggy showing up with a command squad of flamers and using his WL trait to give them rending can make the furi dread's jaw drop.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for the SG, I recently used them in the golden host to snag second at a RTT backing up a court of 3 knights in a 1750 list. They snuck on board and assassinated a grimoire herald in game 1, tore apart several salamander squads from a pod list game 2, steamrolled some dark eldar behind an aegis and consolidated onto their quad gun in time to gun down a late arriving raider game 3, and murdered an exocrine, venomthrope, and pack of GSC dudes all on different backfield objectives in game 4. Being able to assault after DS, ignoring reserve rolls, getting rerollable scatter die, and 1d6 scatter from Dante's trait really goes a long way to guaranteeing that they'll at least do something instead of just getting plasma'd down before reaching melee.

Ugh. I really hate BA drop pod lists.

 niv-mizzet wrote:

A good portion of the competitive scene that know BA (including myself) tend to agree that their strongest foot forward out of their own book is still just pod spam. Just tell people you didn't buy the AB book so you can run the pre-nerf meltacide asm, toss in some fragiosos, and you should make it to 3-3 or maybe 4-2 out of a 6 round GT if you are good and didn't tick off the dice or matchup gods, So basically you'll beat the pure hobbyists and the mediocre players. Also typical upper table eldar lists don't like facing pod spam, so there's a decent matchup that you can hope to run into. Unfortunately you'll tend to bounce right off necron decurions like a passed armor save, and there are other marine armies that can do podding better with the use of gladius/skyhammer/blackmanes etc, save for that they are a little envious of the fragiosos. (Although tiggy showing up with a command squad of flamers and using his WL trait to give them rending can make the furi dread's jaw drop.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for the SG, I recently used them in the golden host to snag second at a RTT backing up a court of 3 knights in a 1750 list. They snuck on board and assassinated a grimoire herald in game 1, tore apart several salamander squads from a pod list game 2, steamrolled some dark eldar behind an aegis and consolidated onto their quad gun in time to gun down a late arriving raider game 3, and murdered an exocrine, venomthrope, and pack of GSC dudes all on different backfield objectives in game 4. Being able to assault after DS, ignoring reserve rolls, getting rerollable scatter die, and 1d6 scatter from Dante's trait really goes a long way to guaranteeing that they'll at least do something instead of just getting plasma'd down before reaching melee.

I think I got the gist of what you're saying, lol. What dd you fill the rest of your list out with, and did you take 5 man or 10 man SG's?

 Dark_Apostle_Spartachris wrote:

 niv-mizzet wrote:

A good portion of the competitive scene that know BA (including myself) tend to agree that their strongest foot forward out of their own book is still just pod spam. Just tell people you didn't buy the AB book so you can run the pre-nerf meltacide asm, toss in some fragiosos, and you should make it to 3-3 or maybe 4-2 out of a 6 round GT if you are good and didn't tick off the dice or matchup gods, So basically you'll beat the pure hobbyists and the mediocre players. Also typical upper table eldar lists don't like facing pod spam, so there's a decent matchup that you can hope to run into. Unfortunately you'll tend to bounce right off necron decurions like a passed armor save, and there are other marine armies that can do podding better with the use of gladius/skyhammer/blackmanes etc, save for that they are a little envious of the fragiosos. (Although tiggy showing up with a command squad of flamers and using his WL trait to give them rending can make the furi dread's jaw drop.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for the SG, I recently used them in the golden host to snag second at a RTT backing up a court of 3 knights in a 1750 list. They snuck on board and assassinated a grimoire herald in game 1, tore apart several salamander squads from a pod list game 2, steamrolled some dark eldar behind an aegis and consolidated onto their quad gun in time to gun down a late arriving raider game 3, and murdered an exocrine, venomthrope, and pack of GSC dudes all on different backfield objectives in game 4. Being able to assault after DS, ignoring reserve rolls, getting rerollable scatter die, and 1d6 scatter from Dante's trait really goes a long way to guaranteeing that they'll at least do something instead of just getting plasma'd down before reaching melee.

I think I got the gist of what you're saying, lol. What dd you fill the rest of your list out with, and did you take 5 man or 10 man SG's?

It was:
Basic knight detachment for obsec: knight errant, knight paladin, knight crusader w/battle cannon. (It's a really tough call here between baronial court and obsec. I went with obsec but only the Sally pod list tried to contend with me on that front, and he got pretty rolled as soon as his melta alpha strike failed to drop a knight, so really knowing the matchups that I got I should've gone baronial. Damn you matchup gods!)
Golden host: Dante as WL, 2 5-man SG's with 2 sword 2 axe and 1 fist each. One of the squads put on masks since I had 5 points left. If I owned a 2nd knight paladin I would take it over the errant, but it's a pro painted errant I won from a GT, so I feel obligated to try and fit him in.