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Isn't it pretty embarrassing that GW is redoing the 13th crusade I suspect because they think the number 13 is "cool".

If they moved on and just went on to the 14th at least there is a line of continuity and consistently with their fluff - as of now this just proves anything they say can be invalid and changed AT ANY TIME. So any fluff from their past can be immediately changed if they feel like it.

There was nothing wrong with the 13th crusade campaign 10 years ago and many old timers even have fold memories of it .. why is GW acting like they can change anything they want for kids at anytime. They don't own up to their fluff.

Are they retconning the 13th Black Crusade?

I also want to know why.

Don't think of it as the 14th, think of it as 13a...

Given it will all change again anyway I gave up and just make my own fluff up, closer to 1st editions dark humour that the blacker than black of these days.

Expect the books to be published ala 'end times' then utterly invalidated shortly after

Because lack of imagination, probably.

The ability to change everything and to rewrite whatever they please always existed.

The last "13th BC" didn't work as expected. Why should they offer another failure?
Maybe it is really an improvement if GW moves on and the whole 13th BC is different this time. OtoH GW may just throw lots of oversized plastic models in and the "new" 13th BC is worse..... who knows yet?

Because they are finally honouring the Chaos victory in the campaign and showing what happens when Cadia falls, like they chickened out of doing a decade ago.

Triskaidekaphilia.

(In layman's terms: '13' is cooler than '14'.)

(Full disclosure: Yes, I got the word off an MTG card. No, that doesn't make it less funny.)

They could be revisiting it like the horus herecy instead of reconning it. Wasn't the 13th crusade won by the bad guys ; )

 oldzoggy wrote:
They could be revisiting it like the horus herecy instead of reconning it. Wasn't the 13th crusade won by the bad guys ; )

Nope. None of the Black Crusades have been won by the bad guys. Otherwise they'd have to redo the Guard range since Cadia would have been smooshed.

(Maybe that'd be a good thing. They are kind of ancient models.)

I think they just like the number 13.

They probably didn't like the outcome the last time.

 warhead01 wrote:
I think they just like the number 13...

See? Triskaidekaphilia.

(Don't worry. It'll become unfunny soon and it'll have to wait until the thread grows to five pages and everyone's forgotten about it to become funny again.)

I think we were posting at the same time.
If they moved on to a 14th crusade would they have to admit what happened in the 13th? Maybe maybe not. They tapped into a power they couldn't control, it was amazing.

leopard wrote:
Don't think of it as the 14th, think of it as 13a...

Given it will all change again anyway I gave up and just make my own fluff up, closer to 1st editions dark humour that the blacker than black of these days.

Expect the books to be published ala 'end times' then utterly invalidated shortly after

That's not how this numbering system works.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warhead01 wrote:
I think they just like the number 13.

They probably didn't like the outcome the last time.

If they didn't like the outcome, why didn't they just ignore it and declare a different outcome. They've done that before.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:
I think they just like the number 13...

See? Triskaidekaphilia.

(Don't worry. It'll become unfunny soon and it'll have to wait until the thread grows to five pages and everyone's forgotten about it to become funny again.)

But.... but it wasn't funny the first time.

If they didn't like the outcome, why didn't they just ignore it and declare a different outcome. They've done that before.

Effectively they did that. Mostly my not continuing to mention it or what happened. I'd have to go back through the last three edition for specific examples.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
They could be revisiting it like the horus herecy instead of reconning it. Wasn't the 13th crusade won by the bad guys ; )

Nope. None of the Black Crusades have been won by the bad guys. Otherwise they'd have to redo the Guard range since Cadia would have been smooshed.

(Maybe that'd be a good thing. They are kind of ancient models.)

I played wfb at the time so the details are fuzzy (I couldn't care less for 40k in those days) but didn't chaos player alliance in the campaign win, resulting in terrible consequences that they reconned ?
What if they didn't recon it but just went back in time with all their future ( now past) releases and are now redoing the campaign, again and continue after that doomed moment..

 oldzoggy wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
They could be revisiting it like the horus herecy instead of reconning it. Wasn't the 13th crusade won by the bad guys ; )

Nope. None of the Black Crusades have been won by the bad guys. Otherwise they'd have to redo the Guard range since Cadia would have been smooshed.

(Maybe that'd be a good thing. They are kind of ancient models.)

I played wfb at the time so the details are fuzzy (I couldn't care less for 40k in those days) but didn't chaos player alliance in the campaign win, resulting in terrible consequences that they reconned ?
What if they didn't recon it but just went back in time with all their future ( now past) releases and are now redoing the campaign, again and continue after that doomed moment..

I wonder what they'll do when the new campaign doesn't turn out the same way they want.

And I don't mind purposefully obfuscating the results by spending some time sending in completely fictional data.

The old Eye of Terror conclusion PDF stated:
"AND THE RESULT IS…
Victory for Chaos! Not a complete victory, the forces of Order have held the line in many places and Cadia itself still defies the Arch Warmaster Abaddon."

Still defies = The Imperium still controls 39.8% of the planet.
*cough*
"We've lost over half the planet but we can't put that in a press release!"

 Gashrog wrote:
The old Eye of Terror conclusion PDF stated:
"AND THE RESULT IS…
Victory for Chaos! Not a complete victory, the forces of Order have held the line in many places and Cadia itself still defies the Arch Warmaster Abaddon."

Still defies = The Imperium still controls 39.8% of the planet.
*cough*
"We've lost over half the planet but we can't put that in a press release!"

Uhh. They didn't lie. Chaos won. It was not a complete victory. The Imperium still holds almost two-fifths of the planet. Cadia still has not completely fallen yet.

I'm wondering how the fighting can be considered over yet though. It sounds like it's still going on, because if Chaos won, then the planet should've been taken out. But if Cadia is only about 40% controlled by the Imperium, then the other 60% is held by non-Imperial forces, which means there are still forces on the ground, and probably a fairly major battle in space.

Did, like, they think that like a WH40k game, a planetary invasion just ends after X time, both sides shake hands, pack up and go home?

Loopstah wrote:Because they are finally honouring the Chaos victory in the campaign and showing what happens when Cadia falls, like they chickened out of doing a decade ago.

I never thought of this. Who is to say this is a recton, like I thought but an actual story that is fleshed out that happened 10 years ago. Thank you for this. I have changed my opinion for now. It can still be recton if Imperials win in the end, but for now will just enjoy the ride and see what happens.

Davor wrote:

Loopstah wrote:Because they are finally honouring the Chaos victory in the campaign and showing what happens when Cadia falls, like they chickened out of doing a decade ago.

I never thought of this. Who is to say this is a recton, like I thought but an actual story that is fleshed out that happened 10 years ago. Thank you for this. I have changed my opinion for now. It can still be recton if Imperials win in the end, but for now will just enjoy the ride and see what happens.

Um, they said Cadia falls.

How could that possibly suggest an Imperial victory?

If the 14th crusade is yet another strike on Cadia; i think its safe to say, Abaddon has chosen....POORLY

 Skymate wrote:
If the 14th crusade is yet another strike on Cadia; i think its safe to say, Abaddon has chosen....POORLY

I still do not understand why the Chaos fleet fears the Imperium's interdiction forces, given the method of interstellar travel both fleets use.

Loopstah wrote:
Because they are finally honouring the Chaos victory in the campaign and showing what happens when Cadia falls, like they chickened out of doing a decade ago.

I think this is probably closest to the truth. GW has made a lot of progress recently - it seems like the bean counters are sharing creative control with studio types, who are nerds like us and they love winking at these old nerdy debates. "If I ever get a jib at GW, I'll make sure Abaddon gets his due!"

 Manchu wrote:

Loopstah wrote:
Because they are finally honouring the Chaos victory in the campaign and showing what happens when Cadia falls, like they chickened out of doing a decade ago.

I think this is probably closest to the truth. GW has made a lot of progress recently - it seems like the bean counters are sharing creative control with studio types, who are nerds like us and they love winking at these old nerdy debates. "If I ever get a jib at GW, I'll make sure Abaddon gets his due!"

I'd have Abaddon be usurped by one of his subordinates who realized how incompetent his commander was.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
They could be revisiting it like the horus herecy instead of reconning it. Wasn't the 13th crusade won by the bad guys ; )

Nope. None of the Black Crusades have been won by the bad guys. Otherwise they'd have to redo the Guard range since Cadia would have been smooshed.

(Maybe that'd be a good thing. They are kind of ancient models.)

Yes it was...

Chaos busted open Cadia, and scorched 60% of the surface of the planet, the Path to the Eye widened.

One planet was sacrificed by the Imperium to negate Chaos foothold on a planet of the cadian system, another one blew up when the Planet Killer fired at it.

59% of the Cadian System and systemes around it, where scorched/in conflict for the years to come.

While the Chaos forces controled the planets, the Imperial fleet reinforcements was on their way to take back control of the Space lanes in the system.

Arhiman found the Forbidden Library, Eldrad was killed, iirc One of the Black Fortresses was destroyed by Eldard sacrifice and the other was either lost or fled the system.

So yeah it was a Minor Victory for Chaos, while Cadia wasn't destroyed, the Gate was flung wide open leaving the Path free for the Chaos Forces to fly into Imperial Space without any itch.

When 4th Ed CSM codex and 5th Ed was released they retconned the gak out of this, so that the Statu quu was still on, with Abbadon gathering his forces on the ready for the 13th black Crusade for the last Decade( only in IA13 the fluff explicitly says that the 13th Black Crusade wazs a succes, but the campaign still rages on, with the balance tipping in favor of Chaos).

So having the 13th finnaly picking up the momentum to do what it was supposed to do( Change the setting of the game forward) is a good thing, and they will not retcon it apparently.

i mean Traitor's hate and CotW-WoM are the start of the 13th BC and the upcoming Gathering Storm: Fall of Cadia is proof enough.

The Words of Abbadon in the "Talon of Horus" reverberate in me when i see this " We where stripped of our rights to rule the Imperium and where shunned like traitors and cast away, it now our time to reclaim whats rightfully ours and what we bled and sacrificed ourselfs for".

For thos who fought during the 13Th BC, it is the exact same feeling, and its good.

 Pouncey wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

Loopstah wrote:
Because they are finally honouring the Chaos victory in the campaign and showing what happens when Cadia falls, like they chickened out of doing a decade ago.

I think this is probably closest to the truth. GW has made a lot of progress recently - it seems like the bean counters are sharing creative control with studio types, who are nerds like us and they love winking at these old nerdy debates. "If I ever get a jib at GW, I'll make sure Abaddon gets his due!"

I'd have Abaddon be usurped by one of his subordinates who realized how incompetent his commander was.

They actually fixed that too, by making each Black Crusade dedicated to something Abbadon is collecting, military targets, powerful artefacts and a variety of things, along with the typical chaos that comes when you have a bunch of crazed loons exiting out to cause problems for the Imperium.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

Loopstah wrote:
Because they are finally honouring the Chaos victory in the campaign and showing what happens when Cadia falls, like they chickened out of doing a decade ago.

I think this is probably closest to the truth. GW has made a lot of progress recently - it seems like the bean counters are sharing creative control with studio types, who are nerds like us and they love winking at these old nerdy debates. "If I ever get a jib at GW, I'll make sure Abaddon gets his due!"

I'd have Abaddon be usurped by one of his subordinates who realized how incompetent his commander was.

They actually fixed that too, by making each Black Crusade dedicated to something Abbadon is collecting, military targets, powerful artefacts and a variety of things, along with the typical chaos that comes when you have a bunch of crazed loons exiting out to cause problems for the Imperium.

Oh.

That makes sense.

Yeah, that's the kind of thing WH40k lore would have happen.

Because remake culture, nostalgia and member berries.

They're doing it to advance the story. Remember the End Times campaign for fantasy? I don't think it will be as world ending as Age of Sigmar. Absolute worse case scenario is that the Eye of Terror merges with the Maelstrom and the to be yet named warp storm that devours Terra when Abaddon kills the Emperor, creating a super warp storm that takes up half the galaxy. The chaos gods go into soul comas leaving the greater daemons to run thing warp wise, the Tau begin the 6th sphere expansion into the galaxy, ALL the tomb world awaken and update the Necron driver files making them as fast as space marines. The Eldar have taken to their dark kins ways and now rip souls out of other races to reproduce. Loyalist Space Marines Chapters have started copying Ultramar and have begun creating their own empires and uniting all the remaining former Imperial factions under their control. Orks and Nids have become each others preferred enemy. New rules get released that somehow balance the game and then WW3 happens.