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I have three unbuilt predators (probably for Space Wolves) and im wondering what is a good way to arm them?

How have you armed yours? Does the new squadron killshot rule influence what youd arm them with? Have you had any success with certain loadouts against certain enemies?

Slightly confusingly, the You Make Da Call section is for rules questions / debates, rather than polls or asking other opinions. You can get the topic moved by clicking on the little yellow triangle.

Moving on to the actual question, I only have the one Pred, and can't see the Killshot rule playing much part outside of Apoc. games (Anything that you shoot three preds at, it's either dead or a superheavy), my answers, in order, are:
1) Magnets. Why limit yourself to only one loadout?
2) Annihilator (all lascannons) - generally the Pred is in my list for anti-tank, and since the turret price came down, why not?
3) Autocannon and sponson Las - cheaper than the Annihalator, still almost as good. Kills light/medium tanks.
4) Autocannon and sponson HB's - infantry killing, straightforward.
5) Las turret and HB's - garbage.

Three Predators is expensive, and dedicating that many points to something that will only kill one unit a turn is generally inefficient. It's 140pts per Tri-las Predator, making it over 400 to get three, and you still have to get through cover saves, since they're not hard to hide from. Three Autocannon/HB tanks is much cheaper, but suffers because it doesn't actually benefit from Tank Hunter or Monster Hunter.

Unfortunately, the damage output of a single Predator isn't high enough to be worth it. Without Tank/Monster Hunter, you're just not going to be putting out enough damage to justify your cost.


I almost universally do better with Vindicators, sadly.

 Quanar wrote:
Slightly confusingly, the You Make Da Call section is for rules questions / debates, rather than polls or asking other opinions. You can get the topic moved by clicking on the little yellow triangle.

Moving on to the actual question, I only have the one Pred, and can't see the Killshot rule playing much part outside of Apoc. games (Anything that you shoot three preds at, it's either dead or a superheavy), my answers, in order, are:
1) Magnets. Why limit yourself to only one loadout?
2) Annihilator (all lascannons) - generally the Pred is in my list for anti-tank, and since the turret price came down, why not?
3) Autocannon and sponson Las - cheaper than the Annihalator, still almost as good. Kills light/medium tanks.
4) Autocannon and sponson HB's - infantry killing, straightforward.
5) Las turret and HB's - garbage.

Pretty much all of this. Although 2 and 3 are a close call IMHO. But magnets are the real answer here.

Despite the fun rules for a full squadron, I don't think it's worth the points. Not for the big tanks. Whirlwinds and the AA tanks can get away with it.

I thought people who used predators in tournaments used the Twin-linked lascannon turret and HB sponsons combo - saves points and is a Jack of all trades?

Or has the predator fallen out of favour for tourney play?

AutoLas seems to be the most points efficient, but Autocannons have an easy save to pass.

 Freddy Kruger wrote:
I thought people who used predators in tournaments used the Twin-linked lascannon turret and HB sponsons combo - saves points and is a Jack of all trades?

Or has the predator fallen out of favour for tourney play?

The Predator fell out of use when 6th rolled around if not before.

Autolas is a nice way to save 25 points, especially if you're running 3 to a squadron to get tank / monster hunter where the multiple cannon shots are benefiting more from killshot and being 75 points cheaper than trilas. Consider that 3x autolas preds is 345 points - that's almost the cost of an Imperial Knight and I know which one I'd generally prefer to have on the field.

For a solo, the annihilator is probably the way to go however as 140 isn't too much to ask for something that's going to sit at the back showing AV13 to anyone scary and throw 3 lascannon shots downrange. It's competitor [a 5 man lascannon squad] is more expensive and generally less durable, but also offers chapter tactics buffs, easy objective camping, cover saves and 4 shots instead of 3 (with one twin linked).

Like Waaaghpower said though, I strongly suspect you'll do better with a trio of vindicators instead, as long as you watch those paper mache AV11 sides.

If you use Forge World, there's another thing to consider: The Vindicator Laser Destroyer. It's slightly cheaper than a Tri-Las Predator (130, but buying a Storm Bolter is nigh mandatory.) Having only one gun, it's more vulnerable to Weapon Destroyed results. However, as long as it's stationary, it gets three shots, just like a tri-las Pred, except all of those shots are twin-linked, AP1, Ordnance. Against vehicles, then, you're far more likely to hit, pen, and get an Explodes! Result. You're basically taking a few handicaps in exchange for a massive damage buff.

im only using predators, dont have vindicators or laser destroyers. Thanks for the info guys, wondering whether to stick them in chaos/KDK, wolves, blood angel or raven guard now.

 Inquisitor Kallus wrote:
im only using predators, dont have vindicators or laser destroyers. Thanks for the info guys, wondering whether to stick them in chaos/KDK, wolves, blood angel or raven guard now.

If you're not taking them in a formation, it doesn't really matter - Iron Hands Space Marines are gonna be your best choice for the IWND, but that's about it.
In a formation, though, it depends on what you want. Space Marines can give them an Armored Task Force, letting them ignore Crew Shaken/Stunned, which is pretty useful. Space Wolves can give them Power of the Machine Spirit, allowing you to target multiple units while still getting the Monster Hunter/Tank Hunter bonuses. CSM can give you a 6+ Invuln. So, take your pick. (If you take a Fists of Medusa force, then you can get IWND, PotMS, AND ignore Crew Shaken/Stunned all together. Probably your best bet.)

Depends really.

If you're in for a low points value game, the Lascannon/Heavy Bolter combo comes into its own, as it's not especially pricey, and isn't about to run out of worthwhile targets any time soon.

Main drawback there of course is that it can't split fire.

Larger games? Depend entirely what your opponents are going to field.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Depends really.

If you're in for a low points value game, the Lascannon/Heavy Bolter combo comes into its own, as it's not especially pricey, and isn't about to run out of worthwhile targets any time soon.

Main drawback there of course is that it can't split fire.

Larger games? Depend entirely what your opponents are going to field.

I'd go Autocannon/Lascannon before I went Lascannon/Heavy Bolter. The cost is about the same, but you have longer range and equivalent firepower. Plus, your main gun is still okay against light tanks and big MCs, so you can fire everything at a single target without wasting your firepower.

I dunno. I mean, in small games (1,000 and under), the Las/HB offers such extremes of gun type that it allows the rest of my force more flexibility in choice.

But all a matter of taste

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I dunno. I mean, in small games (1,000 and under), the Las/HB offers such extremes of gun type that it allows the rest of my force more flexibility in choice.

But all a matter of taste

I'd be more inclined to agree if Heavy Bolters weren't pretty awful. You're getting maybe three wounds against light infantry with them, assuming they don't have a cover save of FNP.

I suspect that auto/las is better than las/HB against just about any target in the game other than light infantry, and comparable against light infantry. So, if Predators were useful, auto/las would be the least useless of the two.

Magnets are best. Autolas is the most generally good option for the points.

Waaaghpower wrote:I'd go Autocannon/Lascannon before I went Lascannon/Heavy Bolter. The cost is about the same, but you have longer range and equivalent firepower. Plus, your main gun is still okay against light tanks and big MCs, so you can fire everything at a single target without wasting your firepower.

Waaaghpower wrote:I'd be more inclined to agree if Heavy Bolters weren't pretty awful. You're getting maybe three wounds against light infantry with them, assuming they don't have a cover save of FNP.

Ian Sturrock wrote:I suspect that auto/las is better than las/HB against just about any target in the game other than light infantry, and comparable against light infantry. So, if Predators were useful, auto/las would be the least useless of the two.

I like charts, so here you go, a bit of quick and dirty mathhammer* to support what you're saying:


The Auto/Las is better against everything that you can't reliably hurt with normal guns while the Las/Bolter version is passable against light infantry while also being passable against rhinos and landspeeders. I am surprised that the Las/Bolter is better against MEQ, TEQ and MEQ bikers. Volume of fire for the "win" if you can really call roughly 1W a turn a win. It could fire for 7 turns straight against MEQ and still only kill 98 points. Please note that I assumed a 5+ cover/invulnerable save because that's a common thing not only for invulnerables, but for area terrain as well (eg forests and craters). Bottom line, predators are bad and should feel bad - Don't take predators. Also note that kill shot monster/tank hunter weren't taken into consideration in the numbers above which would make both options far more deadly against all AV's as well as the T6 3+ and T8 3+/5+++ (though Nurgle bikers are still fine I guess).

* One final note - I didn't account for Explodes! results here either but since you've got 2 lascannons against 1 twin linked, assume the Auto/las is slightly better relative to the other option while both should do slightly more damage against vehicles than shown.

I'm a derp, chart corrected.
Double Derp, 3rd times' the charm

On the issue of points, there is a little psychology around list construction to consider. I don't take Predators in my armies anymore, but I could see how the Las/Bolter loadout could be effective.

In smaller games - up to 1000 points - I find opponents are often predictable in how they construct their lists. They either go MSU or bring some huge threat that eats up about third of their points. There's rarely a middle ground.

The Las/Bolter variant appears to be a good counter in both scenarios. You have the lascannon for shooting the big bad, and you have the volume of fire for dealing with small units of infantry.

Something that also plays into this is the lack of AV support. I find smaller lists don't have a wide array of AV options, maybe meltabombs / PFs on a couple squads and a couple meltaguns. This offers a certain level of protection from whatever else is in your list, but it also suggests to your opponent they have to have that squad - the one that can kill the Predator - go after it. That's it's job.

Put the Predator where that squad can't get to it easily, and you have a strategy. Being able to reliably take a couple wounds off a target every turn can have a big impact on low points games.

When talking about what army to field it in, there are some perks. BA, can be fast, IIRC. If you are just parking it behind some cover, not a big deal, but they can put out more dakka on the move.

When talking about external forces, the different preds also have different advantages. If you are doing something to boost the BS or TL the guns, the auto/las gets more out of it (the TLLC turret is already going to hit most of the time anyway)

When comparing with the Vindi, the pred also does better vs. some targets. Flyers being a big one, as the can snap fire. MCs being another one. The Vindi is at best doing one wound. Preds can potentially do more.

I have some of mine magnetized so I can swap them out. But I won't field more than 2 in a unit, and I rarely do that. The fact that they all have to attack the same target and stay huddled together can really limit their usefulness. However when i do field then, I don't mix weapon types, it's either all Las or Autocannon/Bolter. I've found that mixing the weapon types really drags down the efficiency of the tank.

I love preds, but I don't consider them really competitive. They aren't bad, but its almost always better to take a dev squad kitted out or centurions, or hell even the over costed Termies.

However, as others have hinted out, tanks have a psycological impact. I will often take 3 preds with just the autocannons and stick them in the center of my army (or a land raider) and just push it forward.

The distratafex tactic works wonders. However, its expensive and risky (as most things in war). But I've found that three of these buggers will draw fire and are relatively hard to blow up with 3HPs and smoke launchers.

Though keep in mind, army list building is about synergy. Since I am huge drop pod advocate, the predator tanks distract and give target prioity anxiety for my opponents who are looking at six drop pods behind or on their sidelines.

AV13 hulls effectiveness scale with numbers, as you can overwhelm your opponents ability to engage armoured targets.

Bit pricey though, unfortunately.

As has been mentioned above, the problem with Preds is the problem with vehicles in general this edition- they just aren't durable enough. This is why Monstrous Creatures and stuff are so popular. That said, I do own a Predator (the tri-Las version) and love any opportunity to run it. I just have had to realize that I can't use it in a tournament, as it just tends to die early without even doing anything of worth. In a less competitive meta, maybe it could do some work, but my local meta is full of Adepticon-level gamers.

Honestly, magnetize them and run them as rhinos and hope that they become useful again in 8th. I have 2 and and armed them with a dev squad toting 2 gravcannons which could be an option for the BA at least. Also, if you run them in a BA Lucifer Armored task force they are fast for free and have scout which could be pretty cool. Downside is you'd probably want to run them as BAAL predators and you'd have to buy a land raider and techpriest to go with them.

Not sure how good this unit would be, I've heard mixed things. But like what's been said, they aren't very durable and are a bit of a points sink considering what else you could throw in your list instead.