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None of our HQs want to be in melee aside from Anrakyr, or a Overlord/CCB with the Blood Scythe both of which are subpar. Our HQs are one of our weakest points. I wouldn't use them purposefully as melee beatsticks..

 iGuy91 wrote:
None of our HQs want to be in melee aside from Anrakyr, or a Overlord/CCB with the Blood Scythe both of which are subpar. Our HQs are one of our weakest points. I wouldn't use them purposefully as melee beatsticks..

For a fairly casual 1250 point, single codex, no lords of war tournament, I thought about running a bunch of wraiths with a melee orientated destroyer lord but didnt know whether it would work or not.

With those rules...that might work. But i'd run it with the lightning field and a warscythe, novohk dynasty...it'd be alright i think.

That, or a Ghetto-Celestine Destroyer lord with the Nanoscarab casket and warscythe.

 iGuy91 wrote:
With those rules...that might work. But i'd run it with the lightning field and a warscythe, novohk dynasty...it'd be alright i think.

That, or a Ghetto-Celestine Destroyer lord with the Nanoscarab casket and warscythe.

This would be what it would look like I think:



The immortals are general objective baby sitters. The lord and wraiths do their best death ball impression. The cryptek and the destroyers hide turn 1 and unload into something turn 2.

This is version 2:



4 wraiths less in change for a doomsday ark and 3 scarabs for objective sitting / screening.

@Barnie25

I believe the 1st one is more 'go for broke' which might surprise people. However the 2nd is certainly more well rounded.

What sort of meta might you expect?

My crownworld and I are fully operational!



I am new to this edition but I believe I can call myself a 40k vet 15+ years of experience. I have visited several threads, watched necron games in person, and youtube videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnafXGuFn4DDwSkejCwRQEQ (this guy helped alot) all in search of knowledge. I believe I have created a good list that best suit my play style. I am in love with command points and I want as many as possible because stratagems are like psychic powers that work automatically! My favorite is Methodical Destruction, my entire army now hits that unit on 2+, if I do MWBD and the stratagem we are talking about needing a 4+ to trigger tesla and my destroyers are shooting with a 2+ re-rolling 1's!



What do you guys think?

 iGuy91 wrote:
@Barnie25

I believe the 1st one is more 'go for broke' which might surprise people. However the 2nd is certainly more well rounded.

What sort of meta might you expect?

There will be probably a grey wolves player who will probably play lots of wulfen, a dark eldar player with venoms and planes, an ork player who I think will run lootas and mek guns. Maybe a nids player.

Mostly its fairly casual. I agree that the second list is much more balanced.

But if I wanted a more balanced list I would probably run this:



A fearless block of warriors, some AT and 5 wraiths to harass the backline of my opponent. This is probably the safer choice but also the expected one.

Very interesting list CKO.

You will chew through hoards like butter.
Against heavy armor list like knights you will really struggle. You only have the destroyers which will die turn one easily.

Also as much as I love Lytchguard (they are one of my favorite units) they just have no place in the codex. Everything they want to do Wrathes do better.

If you are loving that Dynasty consider running Stormlord. I have found him worth it. Popping those dastardly Dark Reapers with mortal wounds really help save my bacon a few times.

 CKO wrote:
My crownworld and I are fully operational!



I am new to this edition but I believe I can call myself a 40k vet 15+ years of experience. I have visited several threads, watched necron games in person, and youtube videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnafXGuFn4DDwSkejCwRQEQ (this guy helped alot) all in search of knowledge. I believe I have created a good list that best suit my play style. I am in love with command points and I want as many as possible because stratagems are like psychic powers that work automatically! My favorite is Methodical Destruction, my entire army now hits that unit on 2+, if I do MWBD and the stratagem we are talking about needing a 4+ to trigger tesla and my destroyers are shooting with a 2+ re-rolling 1's!

Spoiler:

2000 Sautekh Brigade Detachment 15 COMMAND POINTS
HQ
Command Barge Gauss Cannon Voidreaper
Command Barge Gauss Cannon Abyssal Staff (Warlord)
Lord Warscythe (Veil)

Troops
5xImmortals Tesla Carbine
5xImmortals Tesla Carbine
5xImmortals Tesla Carbine
5xImmortals Tesla Carbine
5xImmortals Tesla Carbine
5xImmortals Tesla Carbine

Elite
Deceiver
5xLychguard Sword & Shield
5xLychguard Sword & Shield

Fast Attack
3xDestroyers upgraded to Heavy Gauss Cannon
3xDestroyers upgraded to Heavy Gauss Cannon
3xScarabs

Heavy Support
Annihilation Barge Twin Tesla Destructor Gauss Cannon
Annihilation Barge Twin Tesla Destructor Gauss Cannon
Canoptek Spyder Claw Array, Gloom Prism, Particle Beamer

What do you guys think?

Your list is tier 4 or casual or just generally pretty bad. You should try to get more use out of Resurrection Protocols and avoid taking trash units like the Canoptek Spyder and Lychguard, the Deceiver is bad if you are not building your list around him and while Annihilation Barges are no longer trash they are nowhere near as good as Doomsday Arks. You are going to run out of models before you run out of CP with your list, that is very bad list design, you would be better off running the exact same list as a Battalion (with 3x10 Immortals 1x10 Lychguard 1x6 Destroyers) to make better use of your abilities (Resurrection Protocols, Wave of Command with the Catacomb Command Barges and Grand Illusion with the Deceiver). The main thing that makes Destroyers as effective as they can be is the Extermination Protocols Stratagem for 1 CP letting you re-roll failed hit and wound rolls for one turn for one unit, by splitting up your 6 Destroyers into two units you are not getting the most value out of this Stratagem. Your army may be able to use a Stratagem many times but it will rarely get the full devastating effect. Heavy Destroyers are never really that good, take a single unit of 6 Destroyers instead, not only are they better in most circumstances, they benefit to a much larger degree from the Extermination Protocols Stratagem.

Don't take that to mean you should never run a Necron Brigade, I'm sure it would be fun (mostly against other tier 3-5 lists) and you will probably still be winning a large fraction of games you would have won by bringing a Battalion with the same units and a decent fraction of the games a list without the Spyder and Lychguard would, but your list is IMO bad.

Vict is correct, even if the comments he(?) makes are in need of a little salt



Spyders have a Place, that place is babysitting artillery, hiding behind it. Smite is a good way around Quatum Shields, so having a deny unit close to our heavy hitters help mitigate that.

That, and the model itself isnt a huge liability in combat, but for 75 points you get repairs and psychic denial, which isnt bad to look after a DDA

A.Barges are generally bad this edition, because GW have denied us the common decency of a 2-damage weapon...

C.Barges arent terrible, but argueably require a lot of support relatively speaking

I would suggest cutting down to a Battlalion as Vict says, and if you can, use some saved points to switch out the ABs for DDAs.

I'd also say ditch one of the CCBs (keep the Relic Staff), and run 2x 10 Teslamortals with Imotekh (if you're sticking Sautehk), and 1x 10 Guass Immortals with a Viel Lord


EDIT: Regarding Lychguard, they're absolutely great. a unit of 10 Shieldguard in the same central brick as your TeslaImmortals and Imotekh (plus a Cryptek if you decide to drop both CCBs*) may actually dissuade anything short of a dedicated CC Beatstick even attempting that combat (and I'm talking the Smash Trio, or a Gallant)

*If you did decide to drop both CCBs, a Cryptek with a cloak and the Relic Staff can sit in the middle gunline, and fly forward to hit someone with the staff and immediately proc the Stratagem, which is argueably the best stratagem in the book (also saves on Extermination Protocols every turn)

Yeah CKO it's obvious you've started the list wanting to make a brigade but sadly with Necrons this forces you to make a ton of inefficient choices to meet the requirements.

Slim down to a Batallion (or 2) and you'll get a stronger list. Many of our bread and butter units like Immortals and Destroyers demand to be run at max strength to get the most out of them, like Vict says there's a big difference in using Extermination Protocols on 3 destroyers and on 6 destroyers.

Similarly, using Methodical Destruction and My Will Be Done can make Tesla go off on 4+ for your Immortals but... it's kind of toothless to do this on a unit of 5.

I respectfully disagree that a unit of 5 is toothless, but that is probably just my experience with them in my local

I'd suggest, in order to fine tune, going for a double battalion instead, it lets you save some points on the elite slots.

Lychguard CAN have a place in an army, but, you need to build around them on purpose to make them work. Wraiths need no support. Lychguard do, but once they're in they're nasty.

Good lord. if only we could mix and match shields and warscythes. I'd run them every game.

My two (personal problems) with Lychguard are:

-I can never decide whether to take Syctheguard or Shieldguard.

-They hog the Veil of Darkness, which I prefer to be used with my Destroyers.

Doctoralex wrote:
My two (personal problems) with Lychguard are:

-I can never decide whether to take Syctheguard or Shieldguard.

-They hog the Veil of Darkness, which I prefer to be used with my Destroyers.

Very true on both accounts.
I prefer the sword and board look, and thankfully my meta generally allows me to run them.
Eh, i only use the VoD to pull the rug out from under assault units who make it into my fearless infantry blobs, and very very rarely as a late game objective grabber.

 CKO wrote:
My crownworld and I are fully operational!

Wow, I love this so much feedback at once! I will be making a new list because I like all of your suggestions, before I present my new list I would like to defend my old list while also informing the reader of the changes I am thinking about making hopefully you guys will continue to help me. But before we get started can we all agree the idea of my Warlord being Ultron is amazing!

I am new to this edition but I believe I can call myself a 40k vet 15+ years of experience. I have visited several threads, watched necron games in person, and youtube videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnafXGuFn4DDwSkejCwRQEQ (this guy helped alot) all in search of knowledge. I believe I have created a good list that best suit my play style. I am in love with command points and I want as many as possible because stratagems are like psychic powers that work automatically! My favorite is Methodical Destruction, my entire army now hits that unit on 2+, if I do MWBD and the stratagem we are talking about needing a 4+ to trigger tesla and my destroyers are shooting with a 2+ re-rolling 1's!

I have always won my games by presenting a casual list and winning with less known strategies. Of course you take the best units (destroyers) despite everyone knowing about them and planning for them which is problematic but you generally don't care because the unit is to good to leave home without them. I like to do things like turning 75 points into 18 str 5 hits, which catches your opponent off guard. Than they look at the board and realize you have 6 of those units spread around the field than their target priority skills start to get shaky. When your opponent doesn't know what to shoot at because all the units are not threatening enough or they simply have never seen the unit before you have the advantage. With that being said the list is not perfect and it will never be but the pursuit goes on, and the more data I collect from you guys the better so I appreciate your feedback!

5 Tesla Immortals won't produce 18 hits regularly.

You should try out the Zahndrekh/Obyron combo if you want to surprise people in casual games

I reckon 5 MWBD Teslamortals can net you 15 easily, which is enough for people to double take them


But yes, I’ll vouch that Zahn & Oby will be a fun wild card

Pair with Deceiver & a Monolith (!?!?) for theoretically limitless shenanigans and the worlds greatest Teleport Shunt Attack since 5th Ed GK

 IHateNids wrote:
I reckon 5 MWBD Teslamortals can net you 15 easily, which is enough for people to double take them


But yes, I’ll vouch that Zahn & Oby will be a fun wild card

Pair with Deceiver & a Monolith (!?!?) for theoretically limitless shenanigans and the worlds greatest Teleport Shunt Attack since 5th Ed GK

Definitely! Though now bordering to pure rudeness!

5 Tesla Immortals get you 10 hits ( from those 10 shots)

MWBD makes that 15. If you manage to pile that Sautekh stratagem on top of that it reaches 18-19 hits

Exactly

Imotekh can shepherd 2 units of 5 about easily and it puts out an insultingly high amount of firepower for two minimum units

admitedly, usually only useful when MWBD'd but since Imo can do it twice for free, why not

in my brigade list, I am planning to have

2 x 10 immortals for mwbd

4 x 5 to benefit from the strat.

Gives options to either have silly amounts of shots against a knight or reasonable shooting towards any units

and allows them to all seperate to grab objectives

moonsmite wrote:
in my brigade list, I am planning to have

2 x 10 immortals for mwbd

4 x 5 to benefit from the strat.

Gives options to either have silly amounts of shots against a knight or reasonable shooting towards any units

and allows them to all seperate to grab objectives

If you get a lord in there for rerolling 1s to wound, and get off the +1 stratagem before you go, you're looking at 17+ wounds on the knight

 CKO wrote:

 CKO wrote:
My crownworld and I are fully operational!

Wow, I love this so much feedback at once! I will be making a new list because I like all of your suggestions, before I present my new list I would like to defend my old list while also informing the reader of the changes I am thinking about making hopefully you guys will continue to help me. But before we get started can we all agree the idea of my Warlord being Ultron is amazing!

I am new to this edition but I believe I can call myself a 40k vet 15+ years of experience. I have visited several threads, watched necron games in person, and youtube videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnafXGuFn4DDwSkejCwRQEQ (this guy helped alot) all in search of knowledge. I believe I have created a good list that best suit my play style. I am in love with command points and I want as many as possible because stratagems are like psychic powers that work automatically! My favorite is Methodical Destruction, my entire army now hits that unit on 2+, if I do MWBD and the stratagem we are talking about needing a 4+ to trigger tesla and my destroyers are shooting with a 2+ re-rolling 1's!

I have always won my games by presenting a casual list and winning with less known strategies. Of course you take the best units (destroyers) despite everyone knowing about them and planning for them which is problematic but you generally don't care because the unit is to good to leave home without them. I like to do things like turning 75 points into 18 str 5 hits, which catches your opponent off guard. Than they look at the board and realize you have 6 of those units spread around the field than their target priority skills start to get shaky. When your opponent doesn't know what to shoot at because all the units are not threatening enough or they simply have never seen the unit before you have the advantage. With that being said the list is not perfect and it will never be but the pursuit goes on, and the more data I collect from you guys the better so I appreciate your feedback!

Spoiler:

2000 Sautekh Brigade Detachment 15 COMMAND POINTS

WHICH DETACHMENTS TO TAKE? This is a tough one because I agree that 2 battalions is better but I will have to get another hq or change my hqs around completely. I like Imotekh for the 2 MWBD a turn and Lord of the Storm to trigger the stratagem with mortal wounds. I also may be add a cryptek for 1 of the 4 hqs but that mainly depends on which route I choose.


HQ
Command Barge Gauss Cannon Voidreaper

Command barges have an effective 27 inch MWBD range and with the stratagem I can touch multiple units it's simply an excellent buffer. It also has a gauss cannon, I know your like so what? The gauss cannons on the Barges means the list has the equivalent of 2 5 man destroyer squads worth of gauss cannons. However thanks to Vict I realized a mistake. The stratagem makes Destroyer's cannons hit way harder than the four cannons on the barges. At the time I was thinking these individual cannons can cause the first wound to trigger and activate the stratagem Methodical Destruction. Lastly voidreaper plus entropic strike stratagem equals 3 wounds in cc especially considering you have a re-roll!

Command Barge Gauss Cannon Abyssal Staff (Warlord)

Wanted another MWBD and the abyssal staff usually causes mortal wounds which can trigger the stratagem.

Lord Warscythe (Veil)

Troops
5xImmortals Tesla Carbine
5xImmortals Tesla Carbine
5xImmortals Tesla Carbine
5xImmortals Tesla Carbine
5xImmortals Tesla Carbine
5xImmortals Tesla Carbine

18 Str 5 hits and they are durable and require more than expected to take them out.

Elite
Deceiver

Mainly for Grand Illusion and to be a distraction unit, I mean he does mortal wounds but in the wrong phase!

5xLychguard Sword & Shield
5xLychguard Sword & Shield

I like this unit for their durability 140 points for 10 wounds 4++ and reanimation but I agree with IHateNids it needs to be 1 large squad to truly get the most out of the unit! The thing I need you to keep in mind is that because of the design of my list units are rarely have the majority of their wounds when they reach charge range. I mean going through the sea of tesla to bang your head against this durable unit can be frustrating and often times they underestimate str 7 swords and lose.

Fast Attack
3xDestroyers upgraded to Heavy Gauss Cannon
3xDestroyers upgraded to Heavy Gauss Cannon

Do I even have to explain? I understand why larger squads are needed to get the most out of the stratagem and I will definitely figure out a way to do that

3xScarabs

Self Destruction Stratagem activate, Methocical Destruction activate in the assault phase! Didn't see that one coming did you?

Heavy Support
Annihilation Barge Twin Tesla Destructor Gauss Cannon
Annihilation Barge Twin Tesla Destructor Gauss Cannon

These guys with the stratagem and gauss cannon do more damage than you would expect. However I think I will be using flyers, what do you guys think about the scythes? Forget a gauss cannon give me a death ray that will trigger Methodical Destruction for sure!

Canoptek Spyder Claw Array, Gloom Prism, Particle Beamer

Fixes Barges and helps against psychic powers and he may get a scarab back up. (lol) Most likely not making the cut for the new list but its not that bad!

I will be making a new list hopefully it will not be tier 4 according to Vict! Although I would actually prefer it to look tier 4 but be tier 1 strong!

All warfare is based on deception.
Sun Tzu

Some minor details to fix from your notes in the spoiler:

Due to using three artifacts, your 15cp is down to 12. Which is still okay.

"Lord of the Storm to trigger the stratagem with mortal wounds" Abilities do not trigger the stratagem due to the updated wording from the FAQ.
https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/warhammer_40000_necrons_en-1.pdf

Lychguard with sword and shield can get to ST6 with the Stratagem.

@CKO

Being new to this edition I can understand why you are so excited by Stratagems and CPs, they are a really cool addition to the game!

As well as being great to use in game they also make list building more interesting, because you have to weigh up the benefit of having access to lots of CPs against the cost of taking detachments which restrict unit choices.

Finding a balance of CP generation vs taking the best units is key to building a good list. I tend to have 9 CPs in most lists (Battalion + a 1CP detachment) which is enough CPs to have lots of fun using stratagems, while not being overly restrictive on unit choices. 2x Battalions gives plenty of CPs but starts to feel quite restrictive. A Brigade is probably going too far with Necrons, not only is it too restrictive on unit selection, but it becomes self defeating: A lot of stratagems enhance 1 unit, so are more efficient on larger units, but a Brigade forces you to take smaller units.

MWBD and and resurection Protocols are also better on larger units. There's also stuff like using a Veil of Darkness to teleport Destroyers, then playing the Extermination Protocols strat on them- it's a great hammer blow with a unit of 6, but an inefficient use of resources on a unit of 3.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lychguard

I feel like Lychguard of in a good place right now. As others have said, they do compete with Wraith to a certain extent, but need more support. Sheild Guard are slightly more durable than Wraith (with buffs), Scytheguard are far more killy than Wraith (with buffs). Wraith will do what they do more reliably, Lychguard will have a much bigger impact on the game IF they get to do what they do.

10 Scytheguard charging out of Deepstrike with MWBD and Disruption fields can be game winning.

I actually got a very impressive performance out of them last night:

-2x10 Flashgitz mobbed up and Da Jumped into my face, played the dakka dakka strat, and rolled a lucky 6 to shoot twice. With a little help from the rest of the Orks this wiped out 30 Tesla Immortals and 6 destroyers. Bad times. I hadn't even had a turn!
-In response I used Zhandrek and Obyron to teleport 10 Scytheguard at the Gitz. I shot the grot screen, denied overwatch with some fancy footwork from Obyron, and wiped them out with 20, 2's to hit, 2's rerolled to wound AP-4 D2 attacks.
-30 Boyz then Da jumped and charged the Wraith I'd used to screen the Lychguard, wiping them out.
-The Lychguard countercharged and killed all the Boyz. The following turn they wiped a unit of bikes.

I lost the game as I had no way to score objectives, but the Lychguard were slaughtering everything they touched, and the Orks didn't have enough damage output left to get past Reanimation Protocols.

Now that we've had a chance to test the units since CA can we further discuss the competitive viability of the Triarch Stalker?

I very recently acquired one in a job lot but the work required to repair it will be quite significant.

In my view it's points price as a standalone unit looks somewhat lacking even after the significant drop.

Targeting relay is decent ability though and quantum shielding is very welcome.

If you had access to every Necron unit in the codex would you include a Stalker in your 2000 points lists?

listylist88 wrote:
Now that we've had a chance to test the units since CA can we further discuss the competitive viability of the Triarch Stalker?

I very recently acquired one in a job lot but the work required to repair it will be quite significant.

In my view it's points price as a standalone unit looks somewhat lacking even after the significant drop.

Targeting relay is decent ability though and quantum shielding is very welcome.

If you had access to every Necron unit in the codex would you include a Stalker in your 2000 points lists?

It is a solid unit to be honest. Not a total slouch in melee. Heat Ray is a good weapon, especially vs horde armies....2d6 auto hits on overwatch at str 5, ap-1.
Twin Heavy Gauss is at a great price point. A single Heavy Destroyer is 50 points. Gives you 1 shot.
The Twin Gauss is 125. Gives you two shots, Reroll 1s for the whole army, better in melee, has quantum shielding, and more wounds, and has decent mobility, which does however reduce its firepower.
If you compare it to 2 Heavy Destroyers, its a clear winner. 3 heavy destroyers despite the firepower is still a contest.

listylist88 wrote:
Now that we've had a chance to test the units since CA can we further discuss the competitive viability of the Triarch Stalker?

I very recently acquired one in a job lot but the work required to repair it will be quite significant.

In my view it's points price as a standalone unit looks somewhat lacking even after the significant drop.

Targeting relay is decent ability though and quantum shielding is very welcome.

If you had access to every Necron unit in the codex would you include a Stalker in your 2000 points lists?

I can't quite wrap my head around it.

Its T6 10w, making it big for a small, light vehicle. It's not cheap enough for a skirmish unit.

However it can't really fill the role of a big and sturdy vehicle. With T6 and no invul.

Though it's not cheap enough for a skirmish harassing unit. I don't care much for rerolling 1s to hit, it's a small situational bonus.

It seems heavily geared for a knights meta. Quantum shielding, reroll hits vs a priority target, opening up wounds for +1 to hit stratagem.

Knights aren't prevalent in my meta. I'd rather have something cheaper and weaker that I could field en mass. With a gimmick.

@draco765 Shieldguard are S7 with the strat. Hyperphase swords are +1 S and they are base S5

On Triarch Stalkers, my one reservation about using them is they are entirely too easy to wrap, and once they are, they can hold on to them forever.

Thinking of taking this list to a friendly game:



It's designed to be speedy. And fun and not competitive. Tanks will have to be dealt with by the Acanthrites or silenced by tomb blades and wraiths. The rest just... Jump around and create noise.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

Lychguard

I feel like Lychguard of in a good place right now. As others have said, they do compete with Wraith to a certain extent, but need more support. Sheild Guard are slightly more durable than Wraith (with buffs), Scytheguard are far more killy than Wraith (with buffs). Wraith will do what they do more reliably, Lychguard will have a much bigger impact on the game IF they get to do what they do.

10 Scytheguard charging out of Deepstrike with MWBD and Disruption fields can be game winning.

One point on this, if you use the veil of darkness and MWBD they ruled at LVO that you lose the MWBD buffs. So its pretty much impossible to do this anymore. You can still give the character the reroll charges warlord trait, but thats investing a lot into it.