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Now, don't get me wrong, I'm fine with charity, as long as it is something I believe in. I donate to my church, donate and volunteer at a local homeless shelter, donate to animal conservation, and give to the local school. However, a recent local tragedy has empowered the local emergency services to request unneeded materials.

Backstory:
About a month ago a 26 year-old guy was out in the middle of the night with four 15 to 16 year-old girls in his car. It was 12 AM on a school night, no moon out, foggy as all heck. All were completely drunk, all were VERY high on pot, and two were tripping on meth. Obviously a great time to do cookies in a farmer's field. Unfortunately they wound up driving into the local river. Now, when I say "river" it's basically a glorified creek. Barring heavy rain this "river" is about 20 feet wide and knee deep. The driver, still totally drunk and high (Blew a 1.5 three hours after the crash) goes for help at the nearest house, less than a mile away. All the girls decided to just stand in the 40 degree water (that's Fahrenheit, or 5 degrees for the metric world) until help arrives. By the time his drunk, high, hypothermic, non-English speaking self got help, 3 hours had passed. Just as help arrives one of the girls gets swept downstream and drowns.


A tragedy for sure, but now the local firemen want funding for a "rescue boat" fitted with underwater rescue equipment. I've had people walk into my business, knock on my door at home, and call me asking for donations. Seriously, for this river they MIGHT need a pair of hip waders. I've gotten puzzled looks when I tell people I don't agree with this massive waste of money. Am I just callous or are other people just being spineless when they donate?

There's certainly a social expectation factor when it comes to charity. People are expected to give to every cause, like saying no is unthinkable. I think that gets exploited fairly often.

The paid collectors really bother me, because it means that most of what I'm giving goes to kid door knocking, not the final charity. This goes double when the door knocker is working on commission. This one is hard because they won't tell you if they're doing this for a paycheque or if they're actually committed to the cause. Unless they say they're a volunteer or its a charity I know doesn't pay collectors, then I'll assume most of what I give will go straight to the collecter, and I'll decline.

The other one that bothers me is people asking for money for their kid's school trip. If you want your kid to go on a ski trip to Japan, pay for it. Ski trips to Japan are not a charitable cause. Especially not when dad is a dentist. It is fair enough if the kid is actually an elite talent in something or other and the parents are spending everything they can to support that talent, but most of this is total bs.

Oh god, I totally forgot about kids that think the community needs to fund their school sponsored vacation. Totally grinds my gears.

Also on the list of "why am I donating again?": People that want donations to start up their for-profit business. My town of 8,000 people has at least 15 actual day cares, plus company day cares, a few unlicensed ones, and countless babysitters. Someone was going around collecting donations to start another. Not for needy kids or families, not in a more convenient location, and not some super-special educated place. Totally a for-profit, run by someone that didn't want a normal 9-5 job.

A boat for a foot deep?

That's so shallow your gonna drag the outboard most of the time as a dredger.

 jhe90 wrote:
A boat for a foot deep?

That's so shallow your gonna drag the outboard most of the time as a dredger.

It's actually about 2 feet deep in most places. Perhaps some holes get up to 5. Either way, they wanted the boat with the impeller (like a jetski).

 cuda1179 wrote:
A tragedy for sure, but now the local firemen want funding for a "rescue boat" fitted with underwater rescue equipment.

How far is the nearest boat of the same type?
Can't they borrow one?
Can't they hire one?
Is this a regular thing that they keep needing?


I find this kind of post-event campaign odd. It is probably just me and my weird regards towards death.
Despite being a tragic loss for everyone related to the deceased, this boat isn't going to bring them back. It will help the family lay them to rest, and there's closure. But if the cause is well known, and there is no need to search for evidence, this is probably not a great way to spend the community's money.
So, refusing for whatever reason shouldn't be called out.

They all ready have two paddle-powered john boats. Except for a near bye lake there isn't another body of water around for 30 miles. That lake is the ONLY possible reason they could use the sonar and scuba gear they are requesting.

It's not as simple as just get a rescue boat. You need a load of training in boat piloting, capsize and recovery, and so on. Scuba is another whole set of skills.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
It's not as simple as just get a rescue boat. You need a load of training in boat piloting, capsize and recovery, and so on. Scuba is another whole set of skills.

Luckily they do have two guys all ready trained in scuba recovery, one of them military trained. Still a massive waste.

If the boat can capsize in the puddle it sounds like they're talking about from this thread; I'll buy them a new one myself.

As a rule I never give to charity. If people knock on my door, phone me or stop me on the street I just tell them to go away. I've never felt pressured to do otherwise.

Maybe it's different in other countries but in the UK it really is an optional thing.

 n0t_u wrote:
If the boat can capsize in the puddle it sounds like they're talking about from this thread; I'll buy them a new one myself.

First rule of search and rescue and first aid is to not become part of the danger situation yourself. Therefore the boat crew need to be trained in case of their own capsize, which might happen due to performing a rescue in bad conditions. Capsize and Recovery training also involves dealing with the effects of sudden immersion in victims you have to rescue, as well as your own crew.

 cuda1179 wrote:

Am I just callous or are other people just being spineless when they donate?

Donating doesn't mean you're spineless.

I believe the puzzled looks you got aren't just because of what you say but also how you said it.

If you're rude with people, it's obvious most of them won't react kindly.

There is no wrong if you decide not to donate (especially to people knocking at your door for it). However, there isn't just one way to say "no". The way you do actually matters a lot on people's reactions.

El Torro wrote:
As a rule I never give to charity. If people knock on my door, phone me or stop me on the street I just tell them to go away. I've never felt pressured to do otherwise.

Maybe it's different in other countries but in the UK it really is an optional thing.

I'm with you, i don't donate either.

I neither give or expect charity from anyone, plus the amount that goes on overhead is rediculous.

Im not a big fan of donating to door to doors or callers as well. Ill donate to certain places I know are legit and give as much as possible to whatever the cause is.

I was once told Id burn in hell from a Christian charity person on my own door step once because I said no thanks not interested. Definitely glad they didnt get any from me

I did door-to-door many years ago as a student, and I currently volunteer an evening a week, cooking meals for the homeless. I'll donate to some charities I know, but never to unknown organisations, cold callers or street "chuggers" who want you to hand over your bank details to a total stranger on the street.

Don't want to contribute? Fine, just don't tell me "these people should just get off their backside", or that I'm gullible or a scrounger. Asking you for money does not give you a right to abuse me.

Didn't get a donation from me? Then don't go all passive-aggressive, telling me that millions are going to die because of me. Just say thank you and good night.

Why bother saying you don't support it? Just say you've already donated and close the door politely.

It's crass to talk about charity work, regardless of what one does and doesn't support, as one shouldn't be doing it for kudos on the personal level (it is of course impossible to not raise it when fundraising)

No need for anyone to get upset about it really.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It's crass to talk about charity work, regardless of what one does and doesn't support, as one shouldn't be doing it for kudos on the personal level (it is of course impossible to not raise it when fundraising).

It really isn't crass at all, charity work needs a MUCH higher profile - there's an army of people out there, quietly struggling away to help people who have very little going for them in life. The vulnerable, depressed, lonely and poor are much more common than you think - they're in the queue at the supermarket, having a coffee at the next table, living on your street.

People who do it for the kudos don't come back for a second week. It's eye-opening, upsetting and very occasionally dangerous - if you think I do that to score a few thread points on Dakka, you're mistaken.

I don't now what you people are talking about. I never get people asking for charity. I do get a lot of prankers though. Every time I answer the door they just run away shouting "RUN! WILD BEAR WITH MANGE!"

I looked it up on the internet and can't find out anything about this game...

I wouldn't give to anybody knocking at the door or phoning. In fact any situation involving people approaching me for money. The times I've given to charity have been when someone is standing at the side of the road with a money box not bothering passers by, or collection boxes at the till

This is very funny, but makes a serious point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqYyxvM85zU

I donate to santa outside the supermarket at Christmas time. I trust the old guy to put the money to a good cause. Occasionally I donate when they have the $1 request at the register.

 Sarouan wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:

Am I just callous or are other people just being spineless when they donate?

Donating doesn't mean you're spineless.

I believe the puzzled looks you got aren't just because of what you say but also how you said it.

If you're rude with people, it's obvious most of them won't react kindly.

There is no wrong if you decide not to donate (especially to people knocking at your door for it). However, there isn't just one way to say "no". The way you do actually matters a lot on people's reactions.

Yeah...this.

A good stock response to unwanted charity requests is "not today, thank you."

Just to clarify, I never really gave a reason. My reply was something like, "I'm sorry, I can't donate at this time."

Well, a dead girl in a small community is a big deal. I'm guessing many people are fixated on the "preventing dead kids" angle and not the "it's just a friggin' little creek, man" angle, and so may perceive your objection as heartless.

 feeder wrote:
Well, a dead girl in a small community is a big deal. I'm guessing many people are fixated on the "preventing dead kids" angle and not the "it's just a friggin' little creek, man" angle, and so may perceive your objection as heartless.

"Won't someone think of the children" is always an awesome standby to spend money or abridge our freedoms.

But I don't like children.

 Frazzled wrote:

 feeder wrote:
Well, a dead girl in a small community is a big deal. I'm guessing many people are fixated on the "preventing dead kids" angle and not the "it's just a friggin' little creek, man" angle, and so may perceive your objection as heartless.

"Won't someone think of the children" is always an awesome standby to spend money or abridge our freedoms.

But I don't like children.

Agreed. I never knew how much I hated other people's kids until I got some kids of my own.

I give at least $100 to CHOP and Make-a-Wish yearly, and I'll volunteer once in a while, mostly animal shelters and such, but door to door people usually don't even get the door answered for them, and I am harrased all the time by the Fraternal Order of Popo, and they can be asshats when you say no (even when I was unemployed they were calling weekly, and telling me that I should do my part regardless of not having an income).

And I buy from my local girl scouts, like any good fat kid


Back to the OP: Definite over-reaction from the locals over an easily avoided death. I wouldn't donate either personally.

Try being a small business. The charities come out of the woodwork for money, but then don't bother to buy a thing from you ever.

I assume that this is the Fire Department in Denison, based on your profile location?

Google Maps doesn't show how deep a river is, but the Boyer and East Boyer Rivers meet up in Denison and continue on from there. It does look like a river that has the potential for getting pretty swift flow with any significant rain, and you said that it is 20 feet wide. If it is Denison then I think these should be picture taken when they were looking for the teen in the river (which took a week?):





And from training pictures it looks like they operate in more waters than just the river:





The problem with water rescue is that you pretty much always need a solid base of operations. You want to be tethered to something solid that will keep you from being swept away even if you think that a pair of hip waders is sufficient. It takes just a couple inches of water to move vehicles and wash them down the river, and water rescues are extremely dangerous regardless of how "shallow" you think the water may be. My old fire department had areas that were prone to flooding and we had a number of guys that got certified in swift water rescue because of that. We didn't purchase any boats or diving equipment because the departments that bordered us to the north and south both had their own boats and dive teams that were available for mutual aid if needed.

Which brings us to another thing to consider for Denison: it looks like you guys are in the middle of fething nowhere. How far does your FD respond, what departments do they mutual aid with, and how far away is the closest available support for water rescues? Those are all factors that should be considered when making a decision.

Anyway, it looks like they were able to raise the money for new equipment and they did some training with it:

New Underwater Diver Rescue Equipment

DVFD has raised just over $23,000 towards our goal of $40,000



All of our divers are now outfitted with Tactical BCD's (buoyancy control devices) environmental regulators (prevent freezing) and full face mask dive masks and dry suits to protect divers from water conditions.



Our next step in fundraising will target wireless communications (our full face masks are compatible) which will allow dive tenders to communicate directly with the diver to be able to give directions and monitor the status/wellbeing of the diver.



After achieving the wireless communications goal we are looking at side imaging sonar which will assist the dive team in locating the target prior to deploying divers into the area of highest probability.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit: regardless, if you politely decline to donate they should politely accept that decision.