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So, story time! I was playing in a three way game, when a couple of things happened in the first five minutes.

1) A die landed in a crevice, and I called it cocked.

2) A second die landed in a similar crevice, though a bit less crooked, and I didn't call it cocked. This die was a 6 to wound on a Sniper weapon.

3) This (combined with another Sniper wound, though only at AP 6) did two wounds to one of my opponent's Dark Apostle. He said it brought him down to one wound, which led to four.

4) I double checked my CSM Codex, and saw that Dark Apostle's only had two wounds, so he should be dead.

5) My opponent said that die was probably cocked, so I should've rerolled it. I responded with "Yeah, okay. Do you want me to reroll it now?"

Shortly after (when he did not have me reroll it), he quit the game, packed up, and went to a different part of the store. He seemed pretty upset with me, and I tried to apologize (and continued offering a reroll, if he wanted) but he didn't really take it.

Afterwards, I ended up playing just against the last opponent, and we had a good game.

So, see title. Was I being the butt? Or was he? Or was no one?

Do you think the fact that the second die was a significant six contributed to you not calling it cocked?

If not then no.

Him only saying that he thought it was cocked after you pointed out he was incorrect about the number of wounds is a bit of a git move.

 JNAProductions wrote:
So, story time! I was playing in a three way game, when a couple of things happened in the first five minutes.

1) A die landed in a crevice, and I called it cocked.

2) A second die landed in a similar crevice, though a bit less crooked, and I didn't call it cocked.

Consistency is key. If the die isn't flat on the table, it's cocked.

Having said that, if you've both accepted it as a legitimate roll, then there's no grounds for complaining about it later.

It was more clear than the first die, but he was within rights to call it cocked.

Well i mean any1 crying about one model dying in his army doesnt deserve your niceness. Sorry, but i mean no offense. There are a lot of people that do that type of stuff

IMO - people should stop with the cocked dice rulings.

Between 2 adults - it is easy to determine if a dice has a more obvious facing. If it's above a 40 degree then I say reroll it but anything less has a more obvious facing and has come to a complete stop just let most obvious facing be the result.

Losing one model after being found out wrong is no reason to quit. It's all him.

Put another dice on the first one, if it falls, reroll, otherwise, its good. That's how we did at my FLGS and it worked well.

He really shouldn't have packed up just for losing the one model even if it was over a dice that should have been re rolled, especially if you offered to reroll afterwards.

When we can't agree if a dice is cocked in our area we try and balance another dice on top of it. If the dice falls off it is cocked, otherwise the dice roll stands.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Put another dice on the first one, if it falls, reroll, otherwise, its good. That's how we did at my FLGS and it worked well.

If the die is cocked how do you determine which side to put the second die on?

nareik wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Put another dice on the first one, if it falls, reroll, otherwise, its good. That's how we did at my FLGS and it worked well.

If the die is cocked how do you determine which side to put the second die on?

If you're saying it's not obvious which face to put the die on, congratulations: it's a cocked die.

I have two dice rules,

1- dropped dice never count.

2- if it's not flat, it's cocked.

I just don't like the ambiguity. And in most tables I play on there is enough space for good flat rolls.

As was said, consistency was key. Either subscribe to the "if it's not flat it's cocked" theory, or the "put another die on top, if it falls off it's cocked" theory. Either way works, but you can't eyeball it and expect anything other than frustration from the other party unless you ask them first.

Also, rule of thumb: ALWAYS ask, either way, if they view it as cocked.

 jreilly89 wrote:

nareik wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Put another dice on the first one, if it falls, reroll, otherwise, its good. That's how we did at my FLGS and it worked well.

If the die is cocked how do you determine which side to put the second die on?

If you're saying it's not obvious which face to put the die on, congratulations: it's a cocked die.

Bob and JReilly are both logical in this; put a die on top. If it slides off, re-roll. If you can't tell which side to put the second die on, then it's ridiculously clear it's cocked. This is the best way to tell. Also...seriously winds me up when somebody says "don't worry about it" but then starts whining after their "don't worry about it" ends up biting them in the ass.

You get the blame for accepting the cocked result in your favor. It's possible that the die was genuinely less cocked and pretty clearly a 6, but it's very easy for something like that to feel like you're more willing to accept results that are in your favor and re-roll the ones that aren't. X-Wing has the right rule for this: a die must be re-rolled if it is not perfectly flat on the table. That way there's no ambiguity at all about whether you keep a result, and no room for selective re-rolling.

Your opponent gets the blame for ragequitting when they didn't get the result they wanted. Whatever the policy is on cocked dice your opponent accepted the 6 as a legitimate result, and that's the end of it. They don't get to go back and complain about it when it turns out to kill their model instead of leaving it at one wound.

Bobthehero wrote:Put another dice on the first one, if it falls, reroll, otherwise, its good. That's how we did at my FLGS and it worked well.

Interesting way of doing it.

Peregrine wrote:You get the blame for accepting the cocked result in your favor. It's possible that the die was genuinely less cocked and pretty clearly a 6, but it's very easy for something like that to feel like you're more willing to accept results that are in your favor and re-roll the ones that aren't. X-Wing has the right rule for this: a die must be re-rolled if it is not perfectly flat on the table. That way there's no ambiguity at all about whether you keep a result, and no room for selective re-rolling.

Your opponent gets the blame for ragequitting when they didn't get the result they wanted. Whatever the policy is on cocked dice your opponent accepted the 6 as a legitimate result, and that's the end of it. They don't get to go back and complain about it when it turns out to kill their model instead of leaving it at one wound.

I find this better. Like someone said above, "is the only reason the OP said it wasn't cocked was because it was a 6" So you either accept them all the time or non at all. I think what Peregrine said is best.

I am just curious why the opponent is trying to cheat with 4 wounds though.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Was I being the butt?

Mostly you, partly him.

The problem is that you don't have a proper determination of what's re-rollable, and what's not, and you're not consistent.

Some people play it as it lies. Some people require dice to lay flat. Some people only count what lands in a dice tray. Some people demand 2 bounces. And so on.

If you don't know how to roll and read dice, then that's on you.

In my case, I require a bounce that finishes stable & "readable" (looking down on it) die on the tabletop (not on the floor). So I'll accept any die that's 30 degrees cocked if it's sitting stable; if I can't quickly & easily read it, I re-roll. I am consistent about my process.

If we were playing for stakes, and someone wanted a different process, I'm adaptable. But I'd want clarity of what they expected, and expect consistency going forward.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Was I being the butt?

Mostly you, partly him.

The problem is that you don't have a proper determination of what's re-rollable, and what's not, and you're not consistent.

Some people play it as it lies. Some people require dice to lay flat. Some people only count what lands in a dice tray. Some people demand 2 bounces. And so on.

If you don't know how to roll and read dice, then that's on you.

In my case, I require a bounce that finishes stable & "readable" (looking down on it) die on the tabletop (not on the floor). So I'll accept any die that's 30 degrees cocked if it's sitting stable; if I can't quickly & easily read it, I re-roll. I am consistent about my process.

If we were playing for stakes, and someone wanted a different process, I'm adaptable. But I'd want clarity of what they expected, and expect consistency going forward.

That's a bit extreme. OP didn't call it cocked, but his opponent didn't say "it's cocked". I don't think OP was intentionally misleading him.

I'd say the op has responsibility for not calling his die, but it was the othet guy who threw a sulk over it.

If it's not flat, it's rerolled should be a good rule of thumb.

 Peregrine wrote:
You get the blame for accepting the cocked result in your favor. It's possible that the die was genuinely less cocked and pretty clearly a 6, but it's very easy for something like that to feel like you're more willing to accept results that are in your favor and re-roll the ones that aren't. X-Wing has the right rule for this: a die must be re-rolled if it is not perfectly flat on the table. That way there's no ambiguity at all about whether you keep a result, and no room for selective re-rolling..

Relevant if they were playing X-wing. Which they weren't.

@OP he's the butt for accepting the result then crying about it later on

 MarsNZ wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
You get the blame for accepting the cocked result in your favor. It's possible that the die was genuinely less cocked and pretty clearly a 6, but it's very easy for something like that to feel like you're more willing to accept results that are in your favor and re-roll the ones that aren't. X-Wing has the right rule for this: a die must be re-rolled if it is not perfectly flat on the table. That way there's no ambiguity at all about whether you keep a result, and no room for selective re-rolling..

Relevant if they were playing X-wing. Which they weren't.

@OP he's the butt for accepting the result then crying about it later on

But 40k should just copy everything X-Wing does! /sarcasm

I would also like to request that if Peregrine wants that rule to stand of "perfectly flat", he should fly to every game ever played with dice and place a leveling tool over each one to guarantee it's 100% flat every time, or reroll it!! That should solve all problems.

Hop to it, or realize that's ridiculous and will never work.
Bob's solution is far better.
Perfectly flat indeed...

The die balancing thing is a rather poor test, IMO, as it slows things down as people muck about trying to balance dice, and then re-roll it afterward.

That said, if you want to challenge the die, just call it cocked and request the re-roll right off the bat.

Or bring a dice tower and mandate that everybody use that!

Its always been resolved rather quickly.

We do the balancing die onky if the roll is being challenged.

Most often I will reroll a die even if it was a beneficial roll.

But we did have a certain player that would always ask for rerolls when the die wasnt favorable to him... For that player, i would make sure to roll flat surfaces or in a box just to avoid those situations.

 Peregrine wrote:
You get the blame for accepting the cocked result in your favor. It's possible that the die was genuinely less cocked and pretty clearly a 6, but it's very easy for something like that to feel like you're more willing to accept results that are in your favor and re-roll the ones that aren't. X-Wing has the right rule for this: a die must be re-rolled if it is not perfectly flat on the table. That way there's no ambiguity at all about whether you keep a result, and no room for selective re-rolling.

Your opponent gets the blame for ragequitting when they didn't get the result they wanted. Whatever the policy is on cocked dice your opponent accepted the 6 as a legitimate result, and that's the end of it. They don't get to go back and complain about it when it turns out to kill their model instead of leaving it at one wound.

This seems pretty fair. Follow-up question: should I have done anything different, after calling the die a 6?

About half the time, cocked results should be in your favor, so it's somewhat hard to fault accepting a particular die. The issue is calling or accepting dice inconsistently, or in a biased way. If you always re-roll unfavorable dice, and always call favorable dice, that's not really fair play.

And on the flip side, if you've accepted a die, then you've accepted a die. Try not to go backward in the game.

Finally, X-wing doesn't have terrain like 40k has terrain. It's a LOT easier to require "flat" dice when the tabletop isn't sculpted with ruins and rubble and so forth. Play X-wing on a textured tabletop, and maybe their issue of cocked dice needs to be revisited.

But really, having a common dice tray or dice tower is the cleanest solution.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I would also like to request that if Peregrine wants that rule to stand of "perfectly flat", he should fly to every game ever played with dice and place a leveling tool over each one to guarantee it's 100% flat every time, or reroll it!! That should solve all problems.

Hop to it, or realize that's ridiculous and will never work.
Bob's solution is far better.
Perfectly flat indeed...

For feth's sake, perfectly-level-flat is not what he meant and you know it. Plus, that would lead to some really awkward situations involving rolling dice and Peregrine appearing.

I've always played that if any player is unsure of the result of the dice roll because of the dice not being flat on the table (i.e. cocked enough to cause doubt), then it should be re-rolled. That being said, this requires some honest on the part of all involved as well as any player with doubts speaking up. If it is not considered cocked, the (most) obvious result of the dice is taken.

So if we take the Roll of 6 on this Sniper Weapon: If the OP didn't think it was cocked enough to warrant doubt and be able to comfortably say that it was a 6 (which is apparently what they did), then if the dice is cocked enough to cause doubt, the onus is on the other players to call it.

So in this scenario (assuming honesty and whatnot on the part of the OP), the other player is the only one at fault.

 Verviedi wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I would also like to request that if Peregrine wants that rule to stand of "perfectly flat", he should fly to every game ever played with dice and place a leveling tool over each one to guarantee it's 100% flat every time, or reroll it!! That should solve all problems.

Hop to it, or realize that's ridiculous and will never work.
Bob's solution is far better.
Perfectly flat indeed...

For feth's sake, perfectly-level-flat is not what he meant and you know it. Plus, that would lead to some really awkward situations involving rolling dice and Peregrine appearing.

Hey, he's the one who said "perfectly flat". I think it's stupid beyond belief, which is why I made such a dumbass comment.