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 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 pretre wrote:
I think you might be confusing missiles with rockets. Missiles have guidance. You can fire them out and then they use their propulsion and limited machine spirit to hit their target.

Gravity/wind turbulence coming over the hull would pull them into the hull before the guidance had a chance to adjust the trajectory.

Okay, I may not have been clear that I was referring to sci-fi when I put machine spirit in there, so I'll take my lumps and back out of the 'that space soldier's sci-fi ship is unrealistic' debate.

40K becoming too unrealistic is a worry that keeps me awake at night.

I demand strict historical and ballistic accuracy in my games of millennia-old demonic space soldier wizards who live in another dimension, fighting against Lovecraftian-Egyptian teleporting undead space robots.

Any hint that the designer has not conducted extensive research into the accurate weather patterns on extra-planar sorcerous battlegrounds before creating the Ordnance rules just ruins my suspension of disbelief.

I am off to play Infinity instead, where at least the manga-esque hyper-parkour stunts of reincarnated Achilles are grounded in a realistic extrapolation of nanotechnological progress.

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
40K becoming too unrealistic is a worry that keeps me awake at night.

I demand strict historical and ballistic accuracy in my games of millennia-old demonic space soldier wizards who live in another dimension, fighting against Lovecraftian-Egyptian teleporting undead space robots.

Any hint that the designer has not conducted extensive research into the accurate weather patterns on extra-planar sorcerous battlegrounds before creating the Ordnance rules just ruins my suspension of disbelief.

I am off to play Infinity instead, where at least the manga-esque hyper-parkour stunts of reincarnated Achilles are grounded in a realistic extrapolation of nanotechnological progress.

Have an exalt! I spit coffee all over my work computer when i read this.

 Frankenberry wrote:

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
40K becoming too unrealistic is a worry that keeps me awake at night.

I demand strict historical and ballistic accuracy in my games of millennia-old demonic space soldier wizards who live in another dimension, fighting against Lovecraftian-Egyptian teleporting undead space robots.

Any hint that the designer has not conducted extensive research into the accurate weather patterns on extra-planar sorcerous battlegrounds before creating the Ordnance rules just ruins my suspension of disbelief.

I am off to play Infinity instead, where at least the manga-esque hyper-parkour stunts of reincarnated Achilles are grounded in a realistic extrapolation of nanotechnological progress.

Have an exalt! I spit coffee all over my work computer when i read this.

lol, I was preparing to go grab a cup of coffee after reading the thread, saved my monitor this time.

 pretre wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 pretre wrote:
I think you might be confusing missiles with rockets. Missiles have guidance. You can fire them out and then they use their propulsion and limited machine spirit to hit their target.

Gravity/wind turbulence coming over the hull would pull them into the hull before the guidance had a chance to adjust the trajectory.

Okay, I may not have been clear that I was referring to sci-fi when I put machine spirit in there, so I'll take my lumps and back out of the 'that space soldier's sci-fi ship is unrealistic' debate.

Note how I did not mention that the Stormwolf would be completely unable to fly. It's not about that. If the Vindicator's siege shield covered the barrel of the demolisher cannon, would it be unfair to point out that there's no way the demolisher cannon could fire without hitting the siege shield? Having fantastical elements in the setting does not mean that all logic goes out the window. By your logic, a Chaos Space Marine could throw a grenade while standing atop a ship in space and hit The Emperor on Terra on the head with it, with absolutely no Warp assistance, because any attempts at realism are dumb due to the setting having anti-gravity technology and space elves. That's not how suspension of disbelief works.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 pretre wrote:
I think you might be confusing missiles with rockets. Missiles have guidance. You can fire them out and then they use their propulsion and limited machine spirit to hit their target.

Gravity/wind turbulence coming over the hull would pull them into the hull before the guidance had a chance to adjust the trajectory.

Okay, I may not have been clear that I was referring to sci-fi when I put machine spirit in there, so I'll take my lumps and back out of the 'that space soldier's sci-fi ship is unrealistic' debate.

Note how I did not mention that the Stormwolf would be completely unable to fly. It's not about that. If the Vindicator's siege shield covered the barrel of the demolisher cannon, would it be unfair to point out that there's no way the demolisher cannon could fire without hitting the siege shield? Having fantastical elements in the setting does not mean that all logic goes out the window. By your logic, a Chaos Space Marine could throw a grenade while standing atop a ship in space and hit The Emperor on Terra on the head with it, with absolutely no Warp assistance, because any attempts at realism are dumb due to the setting having anti-gravity technology and space elves. That's not how suspension of disbelief works.

Can we write this into the fluff officially?

The positioning of the weapons is pretty awful, but not because of the looks - because it limits them significantly via the game mechanics (LOS). They are NEVER going to be able to hit anything that's not at the same height that they are, and they can't even shoot much higher because they're limited to a 22.5 degree angle.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 pretre wrote:
I think you might be confusing missiles with rockets. Missiles have guidance. You can fire them out and then they use their propulsion and limited machine spirit to hit their target.

Gravity/wind turbulence coming over the hull would pull them into the hull before the guidance had a chance to adjust the trajectory.

Okay, I may not have been clear that I was referring to sci-fi when I put machine spirit in there, so I'll take my lumps and back out of the 'that space soldier's sci-fi ship is unrealistic' debate.

Note how I did not mention that the Stormwolf would be completely unable to fly. It's not about that. If the Vindicator's siege shield covered the barrel of the demolisher cannon, would it be unfair to point out that there's no way the demolisher cannon could fire without hitting the siege shield? Having fantastical elements in the setting does not mean that all logic goes out the window. By your logic, a Chaos Space Marine could throw a grenade while standing atop a ship in space and hit The Emperor on Terra on the head with it, with absolutely no Warp assistance, because any attempts at realism are dumb due to the setting having anti-gravity technology and space elves. That's not how suspension of disbelief works.

I dunno, was he ever in sports as a kid?

Maybe he could, but never did and now we are stuck where we are... should have thrown that grenade dude

I'm really hoping "Warriors of Fenris" refers to the rumored dual generic/special character kits I posted about in the OP.

I cannot imagine GW making a second SW kit seeings as how the first one covers the big three units (BC, GH, WG) already...

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
I'm really hoping "Warriors of Fenris" refers to the rumored dual generic/special character kits I posted about in the OP.

I cannot imagine GW making a second SW kit seeings as how the first one covers the big three units (BC, GH, WG) already...

It's actually "Ancient Warriors of Fenris"

Expect Dreadnoughts or something?..IMO

 Bulldogging wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
I'm really hoping "Warriors of Fenris" refers to the rumored dual generic/special character kits I posted about in the OP.

I cannot imagine GW making a second SW kit seeings as how the first one covers the big three units (BC, GH, WG) already...

It's actually "Ancient Warriors of Fenris"

Expect Dreadnoughts or something?..IMO

I would be ecstatic if there is a SW dreadnought kit that you can also make Bjorn with.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Bulldogging wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
I'm really hoping "Warriors of Fenris" refers to the rumored dual generic/special character kits I posted about in the OP.

I cannot imagine GW making a second SW kit seeings as how the first one covers the big three units (BC, GH, WG) already...

It's actually "Ancient Warriors of Fenris"

Expect Dreadnoughts or something?..IMO

I would be ecstatic if there is a SW dreadnought kit that you can also make Bjorn with.

Same, the Finecast Bjorn does not do him justice. I want one that gives me the same presence as the cover of Battle of The Fang.

 Bulldogging wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Bulldogging wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
I'm really hoping "Warriors of Fenris" refers to the rumored dual generic/special character kits I posted about in the OP.

I cannot imagine GW making a second SW kit seeings as how the first one covers the big three units (BC, GH, WG) already...

It's actually "Ancient Warriors of Fenris"

Expect Dreadnoughts or something?..IMO

I would be ecstatic if there is a SW dreadnought kit that you can also make Bjorn with.

Same, the Finecast Bjorn does not do him justice. I want one that gives me the same presence as the cover of Battle of The Fang.

Or taking out your opponent by chucking the pewter one and bouncing it off his head.

It'll probably just be Elite Wolf Guard, in the same way Blood Angels got Elite Veteran Assault Marines (Sang Guard) and Dark Angels got Elite Deathwing (Deathwing Knights). And then when everyone has their Elite elite unit, they'll do an Elite elite elite unit.

I love all this talk of aerodynamics. I mean it really is ridiculous that they make flyers that can't fly, it's not like they have anti-gravity technology......oh wait.....but still the missiles would totally hit the hull unless the space marines had some kind of suspensor tech that could be fitted to small things like skulls that could push off the hull after the missile was launched....oh thats right....so anyway really nice flyer i guess?

... or they could put the missile launchers in places that *don't* require such workarounds for no obvious gain?

 Anpu42 wrote:

 Bulldogging wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Bulldogging wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
I'm really hoping "Warriors of Fenris" refers to the rumored dual generic/special character kits I posted about in the OP.

I cannot imagine GW making a second SW kit seeings as how the first one covers the big three units (BC, GH, WG) already...

It's actually "Ancient Warriors of Fenris"

Expect Dreadnoughts or something?..IMO

I would be ecstatic if there is a SW dreadnought kit that you can also make Bjorn with.

Same, the Finecast Bjorn does not do him justice. I want one that gives me the same presence as the cover of Battle of The Fang.

Or taking out your opponent by chucking the pewter one and bouncing it off his head.

Nearly happened to me once. No word of a lie.

If you read the WD article snippet we've seen the transport version doesn't start firing it's weapons until it's A: Stationary and B: Has already unloaded it's troops.
So really we should be talking about how stupid that is rather than perceived design flaws in the ship.

 plastictrees wrote:
If you read the WD article snippet we've seen the transport version doesn't start firing it's weapons until it's A: Stationary and B: Has already unloaded it's troops.
So really we should be talking about how stupid that is rather than perceived design flaws in the ship.

It also mentions that it's "safer than teleporting" for Wolf Guard terminators and that it should get them in to close combat just as well.

Well, that's technically true. You might be blown up but you've reduced the chance of harrowing warp entities pulling your soul out through your nose to zero.

The lack of aerodynamics doesn't bother me... it's a futuristic plane, who the hell knows how it flies.

It's more the fact that it just doesn't look like a particularly agile craft (which is what I would expect from a gunship) that doesn't work for me.


Well, that and the missile sponsons directly in front of those massive jet intakes. I can't see that ending well.

 plastictrees wrote:
Well, that's technically true. You might be blown up but you've reduced the chance of harrowing warp entities pulling your soul out through your nose to zero.

It's interesting that they would even mention teleporting in what otherwise looks like a tactical briefing on the transport, given that Space Wolf terminators currently can't teleport.

Because they don't like to, and the author is most likely making reference to that, but still. I would much prefer an assault transport to getting my soul yanked Egyptian-style.

The termies in the Stormclaw box had Deep Strike, so we might see it on the full codex versions too.

 insaniak wrote:
The lack of aerodynamics doesn't bother me... it's a futuristic plane, who the hell knows how it flies.

It's more the fact that it just doesn't look like a particularly agile craft (which is what I would expect from a gunship) that doesn't work for me.

Blocky works well enough for a troop carrier, but yeah not so much for a gunship. Gunships are sleek, low profile attack craft that evade or outpace fire. Transports are blocky for capacity and armoured to protect the contents.

Landing craft can very much look like:

 warboss wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Whats slowed is that Gazzy the iconic image of a warboss can't have a stompa in his detachment. Makes no sense. If they go this route with all books it means Abby can never have a LOW in his detachment....Excuse me what!? Those are the types that would have titans in their vanguard. Yet hillariously enough, in one detachment, exiled folks like Fabulous Bill can have their own LOW...

You can take the stompa in the second detachment if my reading of the new force org rules is correct. You can take as many detachments as you want as long as the points fit and the minimum requirements are met. If you don't have 4 troops and 2 hq's in your ork force, I'd say that you're not the typical player. This is frankly mostly a non-issue. Also, you of course have the completely bat-poop crazy unbound rules if you don't meet those minimum requirements as well.

Yea except in lower point games where you can't afford to have to CAD.

Oh then there is the fact that Gaz can never be your warlord

Seriously, it would have been better to put these guys in a new slot like Titans of Lore of some such cinematic crap then to have them compete with the type of units they should be leading in droves.

It looks like a piece of a ship that broke off during atmospheric entry.

That said, it'll probably be av14, immune to melta, can change the missile launchers to twin linked battle cannons for five points and has an optional bomb-bay that drops Lone Wolves with dual hammers and stormshields.

 Alpharius wrote:
I like it!

But I'm not starting Space Wolves!

Alpha Legion has infiltrated everyone!

This picture is spot on:

Slap some jet engines on that, and you've essentially got the Stormthingoe.

Which, given the general WWII-ish aesthetic in 40K vehicles, is perfect for a landing craft.

I just kind-of wish that they had left the Stormthingoe as a transport and added the Talon for gunship support.

 Frankenberry wrote:
It looks like a piece of a ship that broke off during atmospheric entry.

That said, it'll probably be av14, immune to melta, can change the missile launchers to twin linked battle cannons for five points and has an optional bomb-bay that drops Lone Wolves with dual hammers and stormshields.

They've already posted the rules dude. Next time read the thread before you make a fool of yourself.

Firstly, in the current codex it makes a point that Blood Claws like to borrow thunderhawks and go zipping through the fjords, so even in the most recent fluff with "no teleporting" the wolves have no problem flying.

Second, I like the transport option. It reminds me a little of a 50s muscle car, with a hood scoop and a power charger. Perhaps the last of the V8 interceptors? My wolves have a new cruiser now and the DA can just sit back with their Mazda equivalents and wish the Sisters liked them instead.