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2020/01/17 19:21:03
Subject: 8th Ed. Grey Knight Tactica Discussion - Mathhammer (Data To be Revised)
Redemption wrote: The Tides are probably only for units with the Grey Knights Psyker keywords, I doubt units like a Stormraven will benefit.
Why would anyone assume this? Lore reasons?
RAW Shadows specifically states 'UNITS", just as it states "INFANTRY" for other Tides. When GW needs or wants to be specific they are. Shadows applies to all units in a battle forged Grey Knight only force.
2020/01/18 08:30:21
Subject: 8th Ed. Grey Knight Tactica Discussion - Mathhammer (Data To be Revised)
Redemption wrote: So there's a decent chance units like Stormravens or Land Raiders will not get the Masters of the Warp ability, if they make rules follow fluff.
That's only if Masters of the Warp isn't the buff gained through fielding a Grey Knight only force they previewed weeks ago. All indications are that it is, so it would apply to LRs/SRs/DKs ect.
Edit: Called it. Enjoy those -2 to hit SRs.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/18 16:57:31
2020/01/18 16:56:46
Subject: Re:8th Ed. Grey Knight Tactica Discussion - Mathhammer (Data To be Revised)
Stratagems
2CP - Masters of Combat 2. Dead Paladins attack back
1CP - Overwhelming Assault 1 CP Dreadknight gains +1 attack, rerolling wound and damage rolls of 1
2CP - Bring Down The Beast reroll wounds agasint a vehicle or monster during the shooting phase
1CP - Fight On The Move Interceptors can shoot or charge if they fell back
1/2CP - Redoubtable Defense Termintor units only. 1 CP for 5 models 2 for 10. Ranged attacks are -1 damage
1CP - Untainted Purifiers get 4+ invul
1CP Senses 1 CP Purges overwatch on 4s
Psyker spells
Dominus only for characters only, cant mix
Armored Resiliance - WC 6 Infantry are -1 to wound
Ethereal Manipulation - WC 7 Reroll hit rolls for ranged weapons at half distance
Edict - WC7 Shoot and then move during the psyker phase, that unit can not shoot advance or move that turn
Relics
Shard - Reroll results of psyker tests and add 1 to the result
Scrolls - Nemesis weapons gain exploding 6s (my GMDK has a relic)
Litanies
Faith - 6" bubble 5+ FnP for mortal wounds
Ward - Unit rerolls damage rolls for a random damage weapon
Guidance - Unit ignores hit and ballistic skill modifiers
Focus - Unit gains -1 AP to any nemesis or psy weapon
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Apparently there is also a relic that allows the Techmarine to double repair, but i'm not sure how useful that will be beyond babysitting a LR.
2020/01/18 17:09:36
Subject: Re:8th Ed. Grey Knight Tactica Discussion - Mathhammer (Data To be Revised)
MiguelFelstone wrote: Apparently there is also a relic that allows the Techmarine to double repair, but i'm not sure how useful that will be beyond babysitting a LR.
Dreadknights are vehicles, so if you can screen the techmarine he could babysit the baby carrier I guess
Ya but i was only planning on fielding 1 or 2 tops, we have a ton of great support characters now it's a hard call. Standalone i still think they one of our strongest units, but in terms of synergising with the new abilities i think i'd rather try out one of these new Chaplains.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/18 17:10:10
2020/01/19 02:21:33
Subject: Re:8th Ed. Grey Knight Tactica Discussion - Mathhammer (Data To be Revised)
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Aren't Chaplains colossal winners from the new rules? Litanies giving good buffs and a new list of good spells to choose from makes them go from sad melee-reroll bots to throwing out two relevant buffs per turn.
I played a casual game agasint White Scars today, he was my WL and MvP, but there are so many new combos it's hard to keep track of everything. I'm positive i could have been more effective with my Tides as well. Ironically i think the Chaplain is now a better ranged support character than an assault one seeing as GW seems to be steering us towards a mid-field ranged force.
2020/01/20 06:36:20
Subject: Re:8th Ed. Grey Knight Tactica Discussion - Mathhammer (Data To be Revised)
Do we have a baseline for theorycrafting for the new codex? I've seen maths supporting Falchion spam, Psycannons over Psilncers and vise versa, conflicting info all over the place
2020/01/24 01:08:28
Subject: Re:8th Ed. Grey Knight Tactica Discussion - Mathhammer (Data To be Revised)
MiguelFelstone wrote: Do we have a baseline for theorycrafting for the new codex? I've seen maths supporting Falchion spam, Psycannons over Psilncers and vise versa, conflicting info all over the place
Psycannons are better vs most things over t5 under most situations. Those are the things you need heavy weapons for for the most part. Storm bolters can handle the t4 targets.
This was exactly my thought.
FFridge & Greywolf - you guys rock
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AlmightyWalrus wrote: The definition of psy weapons has been updated in the book to include psybolt bolter weapons.
Why take Librarians over a Grand Master? Yes, one more deny and the psychic hood, but the Grand Master gives the reroll 1s aura and has a better stat line. What am I missing?
The new Librarian only relic that makes everyone within 6" more or less immune to pearls (once per turn +1 to any roll cast or deny i believe).
Edit: I could see this getting a lot of play, i plan on testing it this weekend
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/01/24 01:10:45
2020/01/24 01:38:29
Subject: Re:8th Ed. Grey Knight Tactica Discussion - Mathhammer (Data To be Revised)
AlmightyWalrus wrote: But the +1 to cast and rerolls to cast relic works on a Grand Master as well, right?
EDIT: I know the two relics are two different relics, but isn't the +1 to cast and rerolls relic pretty much an auto-take?
We have two really strong psyker relics, one any character can wield that gives +1 cast and rerolls for himself, and the other is a Librarian only relic that gives you the once per turn +1 cast aura. On top of the stratagem, that's like +4
2020/01/24 02:42:55
Subject: Re:8th Ed. Grey Knight Tactica Discussion - Mathhammer (Data To be Revised)
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Isn't the Librarian one a +1 or -1 to one die for a unit within 6" per turn?
Yup.
Automatically Appended Next Post: FFridge & Greywolf, any way you guys could work with Quickjager on updating the deprecated parts of the OP? Or just create a new tactica repository for Grey Knights 1.9?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/24 03:28:00
2020/01/24 16:09:44
Subject: Re:8th Ed. Grey Knight Tactica Discussion - Mathhammer (Data To be Revised)
Elric Greywolf wrote: I just did a spreadsheet with a variety of options.
Basic no buffs (beyond a reroll aura), 4 psilencers vs 4 psycannons.
They are nearly identical. Volume of fire lets psilencers kill a single more Intercessor, and do a single more wound to vehicles due to Dd3.
Full rerolls, Convergence, Guidance Litany, Focus Litany, Beast strat
Psilencers start to shine. Equal number of GEQ and Intercessors killed. More wounds on T5 and on vehicles. 3.5 more wounds on Knight, with a total of 17.778 for psilencers vs 14.222 for psycannons.
Add on Psychic Onslaught, and the psilencer pulls even further ahead (because of the AP bonus), doing TWENTY THREE WOUNDS to Knights, compared to the psycannons’ 16.8.
There’s a weird issue where the guns are more points efficient on PAGK, due to decreased cost. However, if you’re already taking a unit of Pallies, it’s probably better to give them the heavies instead of buying a whole unit of Purgators or Purifiers. Also, Pallies can DS, the other two cost an extra CP to do so. And since we’re so CP hungry (many of ours cost 2CP), it might not be worth it....
On top of that, the Psilencer is cheaper. There's no reason to go Psycannon to be honest.
Draigo, two Chaplains, two Stratagems. How often are you going to have all these buffs rolling? Once or twice per game? On a single unit?
Realistically you're never going to deal TWENTY THREE WOUNDS.
2020/01/24 19:39:14
Subject: Re:8th Ed. Grey Knight Tactica Discussion - Mathhammer (Data To be Revised)
Elric Greywolf wrote: I just did a spreadsheet with a variety of options.
Basic no buffs (beyond a reroll aura), 4 psilencers vs 4 psycannons.
They are nearly identical. Volume of fire lets psilencers kill a single more Intercessor, and do a single more wound to vehicles due to Dd3.
Full rerolls, Convergence, Guidance Litany, Focus Litany, Beast strat
Psilencers start to shine. Equal number of GEQ and Intercessors killed. More wounds on T5 and on vehicles. 3.5 more wounds on Knight, with a total of 17.778 for psilencers vs 14.222 for psycannons.
Add on Psychic Onslaught, and the psilencer pulls even further ahead (because of the AP bonus), doing TWENTY THREE WOUNDS to Knights, compared to the psycannons’ 16.8.
There’s a weird issue where the guns are more points efficient on PAGK, due to decreased cost. However, if you’re already taking a unit of Pallies, it’s probably better to give them the heavies instead of buying a whole unit of Purgators or Purifiers. Also, Pallies can DS, the other two cost an extra CP to do so. And since we’re so CP hungry (many of ours cost 2CP), it might not be worth it....
On top of that, the Psilencer is cheaper. There's no reason to go Psycannon to be honest.
Draigo, two Chaplains, two Stratagems. How often are you going to have all these buffs rolling? Once or twice per game? On a single unit?
Realistically you're never going to deal TWENTY THREE WOUNDS.
Actually, I think it’s quite likely that this specific combo will occur frequently. Draigo will definitely be next to my Palabomb all the time—because why wouldn’t I be buffing my largest unit? My CP are for this combo, considering how deadly the investment becomes. The weak link is the two 3+ litanies. So I can realistically expect only one of them. But other than that, there’s no reason a competent player shouldn’t position his units to make this work.
/nod
Reddit also gave me the chance to gain some humility, you're right on all points, i don't know why i was arguing with the guy who "wrote the book".
2020/01/24 20:19:56
Subject: 8th Ed. Grey Knight Tactica Discussion - Mathhammer (Data To be Revised)
Xenomancers wrote: Psycannons are the clear superior option between psilencer and psycannon with the new tides.
#1 They are better than psilencers against things storm bolters are bad against.
#2 They average more damage vs almost everything.
There is a case to be made that a unit of psilencer purgations is good to have because it is better against some things. Psycannon is the way to go now though.
Ya i thought this as well, you'd think that would be the case but it's not, stupid 8th wounding table.
2020/01/28 16:53:43
Subject: Re:8th Ed. Grey Knight Tactica Discussion - Mathhammer (Data To be Revised)
