Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Primaris Heresy. A chance for an Imperium wide conflict when Space marines rebel vs the primaris. Some primaris crusades turn to chaos and Guilliman goes on a two front civil war vs the traitor Primaris and loyalist Space marines. An event that effectively cracks the Imperium into a city state system. The Administratum comes crashing down and the aliens, mutants and heretic can pillage unhindered by the Imperial Guard. Death and destruction across the stars. War would call. Would you answer?

Seems redundant. We already have a fractured Imperium at war on every front.

Interesting idea, though I imagine that GW already plans to have some variation of corrupted Primaris for the Imperium to contend with. The galaxy is plenty broken already

I suspect it'll be awhile before we see chaos Primaris Marines. GW seems to be trying to use the tech in part to diffrentiate standard space marines from chaos

BrianDavion wrote:
I suspect it'll be awhile before we see chaos Primaris Marines. GW seems to be trying to use the tech in part to diffrentiate standard space marines from chaos

Just to clarify, by tech do you mean new wargear and vehicles available solely to the Primaris? I'm envisioning an eventual use of Primaris-sized models with appropriate stat lines bearing traditionally chaotic weaponry and flavor, without necessarily bringing along all of Guilliman's shiny new toys.

 Aetare wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I suspect it'll be awhile before we see chaos Primaris Marines. GW seems to be trying to use the tech in part to diffrentiate standard space marines from chaos

Just to clarify, by tech do you mean new wargear and vehicles available solely to the Primaris? I'm envisioning an eventual use of Primaris-sized models with appropriate stat lines bearing traditionally chaotic weaponry and flavor, without necessarily bringing along all of Guilliman's shiny new toys.

by tech I mean the creation of Primaris Marines at all. genetechnology to create them, conventional technology to arm and armor them...

BrianDavion wrote:

 Aetare wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I suspect it'll be awhile before we see chaos Primaris Marines. GW seems to be trying to use the tech in part to diffrentiate standard space marines from chaos

Just to clarify, by tech do you mean new wargear and vehicles available solely to the Primaris? I'm envisioning an eventual use of Primaris-sized models with appropriate stat lines bearing traditionally chaotic weaponry and flavor, without necessarily bringing along all of Guilliman's shiny new toys.

by tech I mean the creation of Primaris Marines at all. genetechnology to create them, conventional technology to arm and armor them...

The recent novel about Bile had lavish descriptive detail of Vat-Born and Gland Hounds. Had the feel of someone looking at models and describing them. Just as some of the early Stormcast books read like a Starter Set preview.

Perhaps He will be a part of a future Slaanesh themed release with Fulgrim etc. Would be a good "in" to the story to explain his "perfected Astartes" *Chaos Primaris equivalents*

I think more than anything else it's not out of the question that some new and unproven chapters of primaria could be tempted to chaos, irrespective of the technology used to create them. If it could happen to Horus, the emperor's favorite son, GW will find a way

 Eldarain wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Aetare wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I suspect it'll be awhile before we see chaos Primaris Marines. GW seems to be trying to use the tech in part to diffrentiate standard space marines from chaos

Just to clarify, by tech do you mean new wargear and vehicles available solely to the Primaris? I'm envisioning an eventual use of Primaris-sized models with appropriate stat lines bearing traditionally chaotic weaponry and flavor, without necessarily bringing along all of Guilliman's shiny new toys.

by tech I mean the creation of Primaris Marines at all. genetechnology to create them, conventional technology to arm and armor them...

The recent novel about Bile had lavish descriptive detail of Vat-Born and Gland Hounds. Had the feel of someone looking at models and describing them. Just as some of the early Stormcast books read like a Starter Set preview.

Perhaps He will be a part of a future Slaanesh themed release with Fulgrim etc. Would be a good "in" to the story to explain his "perfected Astartes" *Chaos Primaris equivalents*

that'd be my guess too. seems a waste not to use Fabius Bile not to give chaos their answer

I like the idea of loyalists rebelling against Primaris and Guilleman.

Yeah I think that's a really nice foil to the jarring noblebright of the Primaris Marines. Make it like the Men of Iron thing. Big E was dead certain to make his Marines from humans, so they knew what it was like to be human. Primaris Marines have no concept of what it was like to be human. No connection to the people they're fighting and dying for, other than what they're told/indoctrinated to believe.

Based on that, and the precedents in the 40k universe for trying to use technology to better your situation (Men of Iron, 21st Founding), it should be inevitable that the Primaris Marines are going to rebel.

Whether they will or not I don't know. They definitely should though. It's definitely feeling a bit too noblebright at the moment.

Yeah it would make sense for some Frankenstein-esque treason against their creators... only exception would be those marines who were part of a chapter before and were merely upgraded to primaris

I hope we do see something in the Primaris Marines that comes back to bit the Imperium. Everything has a catch, and if it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.

Sure, have Primaris Marines being champions of the Imperium, but to think that they would ONLY do that is silly. Have some fall to Chaos or rebel against the Imperium. Maybe some gene-seeds don't take well to the Primaris Process and cause new mutations. Perhaps the vat-born Primaris suffer psychological damage due to not knowing what it is like to be human in any way.

SOMETHING.

I certainly expect something to go wrong - it's the Jurassic Park effect of having test tube soldiers that can't be good

Well, GW have basically said 'yeah these guys + mutation ARE NOT going to go well'. On that stream of thought, its kinda inevitable that nu-marines go wrong.

They need to do something. The toughest part of 40K lore is the continued "oh Chaos is at the gates!" nonsense, which is never followed through with.

There's a comical irony in the "never before has it been this bad! It's so bad...we're flooding the galaxy with new super weapons we pulled out of our ass!". That's not...a convincing story. It's like a bad 80's cartoon where the bad guys are just freakin' hopeless despite how much they twirl their fantastic moustache or what evil plans they concoct in their volcano-lairs.

There has never, EVER been a genuine feeling (outside of some novels and the continued "no really, Chaos is soooo dangerous dude!" spit lines) that the "good guys"(?), the Imperium of Man has ever really been on the ropes. The army lists don't reflect this at all, etc. It's a fluff that is sadly disconnected with the actual game.

I was really hoping when GW moved the story line that it wouldn't be a light facade over new model releases for Space Marines. I was hoping the army lists etc. would reflect the Imperium and Eldar etc. having their asses kicked. That, simply put, doesn't sell models.

Their friends, brothers and even some of their command would already be getting the treatment. I doubt there would be enough chapters who would be willing to rebel against the idea of getting themselves upgraded, and the few that do would be just another warband.

This idea had some weight before we knew that current marines could be upgraded.

 Rippy wrote:
Their friends, brothers and even some of their command would already be getting the treatment. I doubt there would be enough chapters who would be willing to rebel against the idea of getting themselves upgraded, and the few that do would be just another warband.

This idea had some weight before we knew that current marines could be upgraded.

we also don't know HOW Primaris Marines are created. let's wait for launch and the DG/Primaris Marine, mini dexes in the starter set before we draw too many conclusions.

people need to chill out, wait and see, too many people screaming "it's new I hate it!"

we'll eventually see flaws in Primaris Marines, when GW decides they need to expand the line so great "vampire wolf Primaris PSace wolf blood angel monstrocities!"

BrianDavion wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
Their friends, brothers and even some of their command would already be getting the treatment. I doubt there would be enough chapters who would be willing to rebel against the idea of getting themselves upgraded, and the few that do would be just another warband.

This idea had some weight before we knew that current marines could be upgraded.

we also don't know HOW Primaris Marines are created. let's wait for launch and the DG/Primaris Marine, mini dexes in the starter set before we draw too many conclusions.

people need to chill out, wait and see, too many people screaming "it's new I hate it!"

we'll eventually see flaws in Primaris Marines, when GW decides they need to expand the line so great "vampire wolf Primaris PSace wolf blood angel monstrocities!"

The Primaris Marines made from Guilliman's founding by Cawl are either grown from embryos or are upgraded Space Marines (which have a chance of dying during the process). However the Chapters will be able to recruit Primaris Marines similar to how Space Marines are normally created.

Also, part of the reason why they're better is because Cawl used some organs that are native to the Custodes augmentations which he copied for space marines. IIRC it's 3 that are co/opted.

do we KNOW the new ones are tube grown?

BrianDavion wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
Their friends, brothers and even some of their command would already be getting the treatment. I doubt there would be enough chapters who would be willing to rebel against the idea of getting themselves upgraded, and the few that do would be just another warband.

This idea had some weight before we knew that current marines could be upgraded.

we also don't know HOW Primaris Marines are created. let's wait for launch and the DG/Primaris Marine, mini dexes in the starter set before we draw too many conclusions.

people need to chill out, wait and see, too many people screaming "it's new I hate it!"

we'll eventually see flaws in Primaris Marines, when GW decides they need to expand the line so great "vampire wolf Primaris PSace wolf blood angel monstrocities!"

Were you implying I was saying "it's new I hate it?", because I wasn't at all. I was disagreeing with the widespread rebellion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
do we KNOW the new ones are tube grown?

They have said they can be vat grown, recruited the old way with geneseed implantment, or upgraded from old marines.

no Rippy, but plenty of other people seem to be adopting a "it's new and I hate it" mentality. you're pretty open minded about 8th

BrianDavion wrote:
no Rippy, but plenty of other people seem to be adopting a "it's new and I hate it" mentality. you're pretty open minded about 8th

Yeah, just wanted to make sure that I hadn't given you that impression!

If gw writes in rebellion wonder what deus ex machine they pull out to keep humans alive. Logically such divisive action should result in external threats simply wise iom that already is hanging by fingernails

The Divine Emperor, so beloved, so flawed, so wrong.

His Astartes, The Angels of Death, set to reclaim the galaxy for humanity. Wrought from The Emperors own design and machinations. Turned.

They failed.

Now. We are told that a returned son is creating warriors, superior, to the Astartes.

Superior to the Emperors own vision.

A failed vision.

A flawed vision.

The Emperor failed.

How are we to trust that Gulliman will succeed where the greatest being ever to have lived made such mistakes as to see the galaxy burn.

Trust not in these 'supermen'.

 Mr. Burning wrote:
The Divine Emperor, so beloved, so flawed, so wrong.

His Astartes, The Angels of Death, set to reclaim the galaxy for humanity. Wrought from The Emperors own design and machinations. Turned.

They failed.

Now. We are told that a returned son is creating warriors, superior, to the Astartes.

Superior to the Emperors own vision.

A failed vision.

A flawed vision.

The Emperor failed.

How are we to trust that Gulliman will succeed where the greatest being ever to have lived made such mistakes as to see the galaxy burn.

Trust not in these 'supermen'.

This sounds dangerously like Traitor talk. Please report to your local Commissar for re-education. Hail the Emperor.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:
The Divine Emperor, so beloved, so flawed, so wrong.

His Astartes, The Angels of Death, set to reclaim the galaxy for humanity. Wrought from The Emperors own design and machinations. Turned.

They failed.

Now. We are told that a returned son is creating warriors, superior, to the Astartes.

Superior to the Emperors own vision.

A failed vision.

A flawed vision.

The Emperor failed.

How are we to trust that Gulliman will succeed where the greatest being ever to have lived made such mistakes as to see the galaxy burn.

Trust not in these 'supermen'.

This sounds dangerously like Traitor talk. Please report to your local Commissar for re-education. Hail the Emperor.

How can you trust a god whose angels have to be replaced?

Curiously enough:


This comes from Lady Atia.

Lord Kragan wrote:
Curiously enough:

Spoiler:

- It seems like Rowboote isn't really a fan of the Primaris Marines - he calls them even "Cawl's blasphemous hordes".

This comes from Lady Atia.

He realises that existing Astartes can't cut it and sees no other option than to pervert his fathers work?

Will Primaris become the new Thunder Warriors? Or be prime targets for chaos? What role does a living weapon serve when its purpose is fulfilled?

Lord Kragan wrote:
Curiously enough:

Spoiler:

- It seems like Rowboote isn't really a fan of the Primaris Marines - he calls them even "Cawl's blasphemous hordes".

This comes from Lady Atia.

I find that term kinda doubtful given Gulliman using the term "Blasphemous" seems out of character for him