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And I'm leaning toward "not". I had hopes for 8th ed as an edition where the suits could come back; its gameplay was stale and although Tau has an expansive arsenal, there was really no reason to take anything other than riptides/stormsurges as the core of your army. In some ways 8th delivered- infantry is not only cheaper, but so is the fireblade and its buff does amazing things- not to mention the fact that you get free sergeants.

But the crisis suits... dear lord. Still hitting at a mediocre 4+, the markerlight nerf means they're going to hit unreliably most of the time. The biggest issue, though, is the cost. Where a suit used to cost 22 pts base, ending up at 52 points with 2 guns added, and 57 if you wanted a combat system like the EWO, their points cost is radically increased. A single suit with two missile pods and an Advanced Targeting System now costs ninety-eight points apiece, which, coupled with the fact that you're required to take a minimum of three means that it's a huge points sink no matter what, especially if you want some drones to increase their survivability.

Let's be fair, and consider the advantages:
3 wounds rather than 2, and toughness 5. Cheaper drones than before, which can automatically sponge up a wound. Fly, meaning they can get out of combat and fire as normal. Automatic deepstrikes (Manta Strike, as it's called now) that do not scatter, allowing for some serious mobility.

This feels... wholly insufficient to justify the massive points increase, IMHO. The additional wounds and toughness feels like a bare necessity given the amount of rends, wound multipliers etc that every faction now has access to. The drone buff is nice, but it's a very slight upgrade. Fly is probably the best buff it got next to manta strike, but again: the points.

Crisis suits seem to do nothing for me that a commander or a riptide wouldn't do better. Three suits are going to cost you close to 300 points, and unless you have a lot of markerlights, they're going to hit on a 4+. For 160 pts, you can get a commander with 4 fusion blasters, which can deliver an absolutely murderiffic barrage at any strategic point you could possibly need him to. For almost 300 pts of missile suits you'd get 12 shots, where only half of them are likely to hit and, given the average toughness of a transport being 7, only 3 are likely to wound. At most they're likely to do 2 wounds, which with a d3 multiplier evens out to 4 wounds in one round of shooting, which feels really underwhelming. A riptide, although armed with less guns, is at least bigger and more threatening/more likely to draw firepower.

So in short: suits seem overcosted as hell. If they cost half what they cost now, I'd consider them a decent choice, buuuut... well, if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
What do you think? Is there anything I missed, or are XV8s as bad as they seem?

From the few games I have played this edition with my Tau you are pretty much correct they are crap, commanders in a suit are amazing and can unleash some real firepower. I have benched my crisis suits for now and will hope they get better with a new codex.

I believe you are correct - they are quite bad. I think their only use is to strap 3 flamers on them and use them as shock troops. It's the cheapest and most effective option - and it doesn't even use what should be their best ability (manta strike). They should really have bs 3+ - then they would be worth considering. You could take a unit of 5 with 3 CIB each and use it as a multi purpose big damage dealer with bs 4+ though...the commander always wins out for less points.

I would mostly agree with your analysis, with the exception of the comment about "Riptides and Stormsurges as the core of the army". Riptides are hideously expensive now. I guess you could spam Stormsurges, but given their costs, what's "spam" here anyway?

I think one of the more interesting units now would be Stealth suits, rather than Crisis.

 Xenomancers wrote:
I believe you are correct - they are quite bad. I think their only use is to strap 3 flamers on them and use them as shock troops. It's the cheapest and most effective option - and it doesn't even use what should be their best ability (manta strike). They should really have bs 3+ - then they would be worth considering. You could take a unit of 5 with 3 CIB each and use it as a multi purpose big damage dealer with bs 4+ though...the commander always wins out for less points.

Agreed, they would be a semi-decent choice if they had a 3+ to hit, although even then the price cost would make me balk. Right now it seems to be all about commanders. Maybe I'll get a longstrike...

When playing maelstrom you kind of need them don't you? Just don't put any support systems on them

Triple flamer crisis suits are incredibly good. Put them around your commander(s), and people will get very frustrated very quickly. It is not fun to charge into 9d6 auto hits on overwatch.

pismakron wrote:
When playing maelstrom you kind of need them don't you? Just don't put any support systems on them

For me 2 small squads of Vespid and 3x 4 man houd squads make up less points than 1 crisis unit, and have enormous moves at 14" and 12" respectively before advances.
Add to that the the Vespid's guns are now assualt 2 str 5 ap -2, and hounds are ap -1 in combat you have some decent marine hunters.

I know I am weird for liking the Tau alien races but they got buffed nicely this edition. Vespid got a point reduction and gun gained a shot and hounds now are decent in combat (minus only str 3).

It's more or less accepted that Flamers are the way to go with Crisis - either in your lines to counter deep strikers/outflankers or in reserves, assisted by infiltrating Stealth Suits with Homing Beacons.

Cyclic Ion Blasters and Fusion Blasters aren't bad too, albeit the Commander do them better.

Plasma Rifle only really shine vs Plague Marines; against any other target, any of the above weapons will do better

pismakron wrote:
When playing maelstrom you kind of need them don't you? Just don't put any support systems on them

Why do I need them exactly?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Suks wrote:
Triple flamer crisis suits are incredibly good. Put them around your commander(s), and people will get very frustrated very quickly. It is not fun to charge into 9d6 auto hits on overwatch.

So that's um... 69x3 points minimum for a 207 pts total that's really good at not getting charged and basically nothing else? Like why the hell do I want to pay 207 pts for dealing with chaff infantry when I could buy almost 3 full squads of fire warriors for the same price? The moment somebody aims a lascannon or autocannon at them, you basically go bye-bye.

 SevenSeasOfRhye wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I believe you are correct - they are quite bad. I think their only use is to strap 3 flamers on them and use them as shock troops. It's the cheapest and most effective option - and it doesn't even use what should be their best ability (manta strike). They should really have bs 3+ - then they would be worth considering. You could take a unit of 5 with 3 CIB each and use it as a multi purpose big damage dealer with bs 4+ though...the commander always wins out for less points.

Agreed, they would be a semi-decent choice if they had a 3+ to hit, although even then the price cost would make me balk. Right now it seems to be all about commanders. Maybe I'll get a longstrike...

I would totally get Longstrike! Even by himself he is a the star of the index. Ad a few hammerheads for flavor - have some fun. You can always use your battlesuits as commanders anyways if your friends don't mind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SevenSeasOfRhye wrote:

pismakron wrote:
When playing maelstrom you kind of need them don't you? Just don't put any support systems on them

Why do I need them exactly?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Suks wrote:
Triple flamer crisis suits are incredibly good. Put them around your commander(s), and people will get very frustrated very quickly. It is not fun to charge into 9d6 auto hits on overwatch.

So that's um... 69x3 points minimum for a 207 pts total that's really good at not getting charged and basically nothing else? Like why the hell do I want to pay 207 pts for dealing with chaff infantry when I could buy almost 3 full squads of fire warriors for the same price? The moment somebody aims a lascannon or autocannon at them, you basically go bye-bye.

Well - you mean gun drones not fire warriors - but your point is well made.

Commanders vs Crisis has no list of pros and cons. Commanders are the superior choice to Crisis in every way... period.

There's only one exception, which is Flamer crisis, due to the irrelevance of BS. Don't deep strike them, start with them deployed, and then have fun with their 9-54 (average 30.5) auto-hitting S4 attacks (in a team of three) with a threat range of 16+d6". If possible, try to finish your move right up in an enemies face, so they can't get out of flamer range before charging you. Bring a handful of drones for extra firepower and survivability.

 SevenSeasOfRhye wrote:

pismakron wrote:
When playing maelstrom you kind of need them don't you? Just don't put any support systems on them

Why do I need them exactly?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Suks wrote:
Triple flamer crisis suits are incredibly good. Put them around your commander(s), and people will get very frustrated very quickly. It is not fun to charge into 9d6 auto hits on overwatch.

So that's um... 69x3 points minimum for a 207 pts total that's really good at not getting charged and basically nothing else? Like why the hell do I want to pay 207 pts for dealing with chaff infantry when I could buy almost 3 full squads of fire warriors for the same price? The moment somebody aims a lascannon or autocannon at them, you basically go bye-bye.

Fast units that can be placed where ever via deep strike grabbing objectives tends to be important.

they are not great. but they are still effectively mobile heavy weapons squads floating around shooting things.

dont expect them to delete units or make their points back. but instead make sure they have a specific job that needs doing and build em that way.

I have not played against Tau in 8th yet, but looking at their datasheet and upgrade options they look about Par for other units of their type. Cost wise they align almost on par with combat servitors, devastators, carnifexes. (Hard hitting but relatively squishy units), though their costs is more than the ones listed, it becomes better costed once their included deepstrike is tallied.

Can someone inform me as to why they think a point reduction is in order? Their up to 3 weapons of massed fire and deepstrike capability makes them (at least to me) very uneasy to be on the receiving end.

+1 Wounds when Weapons were given several damage is barely a buff...
Congrats you have +1 HP, oh by the way... Most weapons in the game now deal 2-4x more damage than before!

I think the biggest problem with Tau at the moment is Markerlights being garbage. If we fix Markerlights it would be an instant improvement to things that are currently borderline unplayable such as Broadsides, Piranhas, Stealth Suits, Crisis Suits.

My suggestion to fix Markerlights https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/732795.page

Tylendal wrote:
Commanders vs Crisis has no list of pros and cons. Commanders are the superior choice to Crisis in every way... period.

There's only one exception, which is Flamer crisis, due to the irrelevance of BS. Don't deep strike them, start with them deployed, and then have fun with their 9-54 (average 30.5) auto-hitting S4 attacks (in a team of three) with a threat range of 16+d6". If possible, try to finish your move right up in an enemies face, so they can't get out of flamer range before charging you. Bring a handful of drones for extra firepower and survivability.

Not actually true. Commanders are superior when it comes to killing things/amount of damage put out per point, but Crisis do have one thing going for them that they beat Commanders at. Objective holding. Given that objectives are held by models now, not units, a 3 man unit will always be better than a single model unit at taking and holding an objective. "But once 2 of the Crisis Suits die the Commander is equal to them at objective holding." True, but whatever killed the 2 Crisis Suits would also have killed the Commander as he is equally as survivable as 2 Suits. Sure, you lost less points when the Commander died, but you also lost the objective entirely. Sure being better at holding objectives doesn't seem like much, and it doesn't justify their being overpriced, but given that all but one mission in matched play is decided by holding objectives, it certainly can't be discounted.

Not disagreeing that Commanders are better than Crisis or that Crisis are overpriced for what they bring to the table, but math hammering the average damage a unit does under ideal circumstances and determining wounds caused per point spent is not, and should never be, the sole factor in determining the viability and use of a unit.

 Talamare wrote:
+1 Wounds when Weapons were given several damage is barely a buff...
Congrats you have +1 HP, oh by the way... Most weapons in the game now deal 2-4x more damage than before!

I think the biggest problem with Tau at the moment is Markerlights being garbage. If we fix Markerlights it would be an instant improvement to things that are currently borderline unplayable such as Broadsides, Piranhas, Stealth Suits, Crisis Suits.

My suggestion to fix Markerlights https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/732795.page

Hardly most.

most multi damage weapons are limited to one or two in a unit, a dedicated anti something unit, and or are otherwise priced out accordingly.

the majority of weapons are anti infantry bolters with one damage each.

 Desubot wrote:

 SevenSeasOfRhye wrote:

pismakron wrote:
When playing maelstrom you kind of need them don't you? Just don't put any support systems on them

Why do I need them exactly?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Suks wrote:
Triple flamer crisis suits are incredibly good. Put them around your commander(s), and people will get very frustrated very quickly. It is not fun to charge into 9d6 auto hits on overwatch.

So that's um... 69x3 points minimum for a 207 pts total that's really good at not getting charged and basically nothing else? Like why the hell do I want to pay 207 pts for dealing with chaff infantry when I could buy almost 3 full squads of fire warriors for the same price? The moment somebody aims a lascannon or autocannon at them, you basically go bye-bye.

Fast units that can be placed where ever via deep strike grabbing objectives tends to be important.

they are not great. but they are still effectively mobile heavy weapons squads floating around shooting things.

dont expect them to delete units or make their points back. but instead make sure they have a specific job that needs doing and build em that way.

MEH. If I want something to infiltrate or deepstrike, I'd be WAY better off with a team of stealth suits (for a fraction of the cost) or a ghostkeel (deepstrikes AND he has 5 fusion blasters).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tsol wrote:
I have not played against Tau in 8th yet, but looking at their datasheet and upgrade options they look about Par for other units of their type. Cost wise they align almost on par with combat servitors, devastators, carnifexes. (Hard hitting but relatively squishy units), though their costs is more than the ones listed, it becomes better costed once their included deepstrike is tallied.

Can someone inform me as to why they think a point reduction is in order? Their up to 3 weapons of massed fire and deepstrike capability makes them (at least to me) very uneasy to be on the receiving end.

Because you pay nearly 300 pts for a unit that hits on an unreliable 4+, with guns you NEED to hit on at least a 3+. If markerlights weren't so damned nerfed it would be more viable, but as it is, you've got better options in terms of weaponry and survivability literally everywhere else. A riptide costs less, has decent firepower and a way better save and wound count. A stormsurge dishes out serious hurt at long range. Fusion commanders, missile broadsides and longstrike crush multi-wounders. Fire Warriors/Gun Drones provide a multitude of anti-chaff dakka. For points costs, as a Tau player, the crisis suit would have to have their costs halved for me to even consider using them, given that almost everything outperforms them for cost efficiency. The advantages are few, and the disadvantages many.
Up to 3 weapons... that would mean they cost like 110ish points apiece. Yikes. No, I wouldn't be uneasy- not when they hit on a 4+ and are as durable as wet tissue paper when any kind of dedicated firepower looks at them.

Just to make it simple: for 156 points I can get a commander who hits on a 2+ with 4 fusion blasters. This negates a 3+ save and does terrible, terrible things to anything with multiple wounds. 3 suits with 2 blasters each would average 3 hits and 2 wounds in most cases- so for double the points you get half the damage. WHY would I take these things? Ever?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GI_Redshirt wrote:

Tylendal wrote:
Commanders vs Crisis has no list of pros and cons. Commanders are the superior choice to Crisis in every way... period.

There's only one exception, which is Flamer crisis, due to the irrelevance of BS. Don't deep strike them, start with them deployed, and then have fun with their 9-54 (average 30.5) auto-hitting S4 attacks (in a team of three) with a threat range of 16+d6". If possible, try to finish your move right up in an enemies face, so they can't get out of flamer range before charging you. Bring a handful of drones for extra firepower and survivability.

Not actually true. Commanders are superior when it comes to killing things/amount of damage put out per point, but Crisis do have one thing going for them that they beat Commanders at. Objective holding. Given that objectives are held by models now, not units, a 3 man unit will always be better than a single model unit at taking and holding an objective. "But once 2 of the Crisis Suits die the Commander is equal to them at objective holding." True, but whatever killed the 2 Crisis Suits would also have killed the Commander as he is equally as survivable as 2 Suits. Sure, you lost less points when the Commander died, but you also lost the objective entirely. Sure being better at holding objectives doesn't seem like much, and it doesn't justify their being overpriced, but given that all but one mission in matched play is decided by holding objectives, it certainly can't be discounted.

Not disagreeing that Commanders are better than Crisis or that Crisis are overpriced for what they bring to the table, but math hammering the average damage a unit does under ideal circumstances and determining wounds caused per point spent is not, and should never be, the sole factor in determining the viability and use of a unit.

Why wouldn't I take a six man squad of stealth suits instead then? 30 pts apiece with burst cannons= 180 pts, six models, can sneak anywhere on the battlefield.

Stealth suits seem like the better option currently. Flamer crisis suits are an option though, might make for a nice way to clear infantry and 69 points for 3 wounds, a 3+, and 3 flamers isn't the worst choice ever, particularly given they are decently mobile and can fall back and flame them again.

There are exactly two situations when Crisis Suits can do something that a Commander cannot (note: that is distinct from "do something that makes them worth bringing to the table):

1. Use Flamers with something approaching efficiency.

Flamers don't use BS, so you don't care about the crap BS of our elite shooting unit. With Homing Beacons, T'au have one of the few Deepstriking Flamer units that can hit on Turn 1. They're also not horribly just jumping around the battlefield.

They are generally outperformed by Drones and Fire Warriors, though, in terms of raw damage/pt, and much more limited in range, with their only true spotlight being Overwatch against players forced to charge within the flamer range.

Overall, Perhaps worth it as a single squad of Deepstriking unit-annihilation, as was seen in the recent West Coast tournament.

2. Bring mass Drones along in a Deepstrike.

If you're stupi-... moro-...foolis-... er, unique enough to bring 9 Crisis Suits in a single unit, you could bring up to 18 gun drones with it, arriving together and just over 9" away.

Not having to footslog Drones to the target might save you a turn of shooting, I suppose?




Again, both are unique to Crisis Suits, but that doesn't tell us if Crisis Suits are actually worth bringing. If you're hiring people to fly a plane, a lawyer may well bring skills most pilots wouldn't have, but that doesn't mean you want the lawyer anywhere near the cockpit.

Why wouldn't I take a six man squad of stealth suits instead then? 30 pts apiece with burst cannons= 180 pts, six models, can sneak anywhere on the battlefield.

Honestly, Stealth Suits would be the better option given how cheap they are, how survivable they are now, etc. But, Crisis Suits offer vastly more versatility than Stealth Suits do. A Crisis team is always going to have the same or better firepower compared to a Stealth team (granted for more points) and more importantly can specialize their weapons for a particular role my list needs filled. A Stealth team can only ever have BCs and up to 2 FBs. That's a very limited (though fairly useful) arsenal with a fairly short range of 18". Crisis Suits can specialize into any role I need them in. BCs, Flamers, and AFBs for anti-horde, PRs for anti-MEQ and TEQ, FBs for anti-armor, and MPs and CIBs for more general TAC situations. Depending on what my list is, I can arm my Crisis Suits however I need to plug gaps in my list, while Stealth Suits can only ever be anti-horde with limited anti-armor. And while Stealth Suit's infiltrate is very good, Crisis DSing could potentially be more useful (keeping your unit off the board until your opponent brings in their DSers or reveals what their plan is, allowing you to counter it with DSing.

While Stealth Suits generally speaking will be better options for battlesuit objective holding, Crisis Suits will offer you more flexibility in your list overall. As they should since they're more expensive, but even so, you are getting some things for those extra points that Stealth Suits can't offer you.

 GI_Redshirt wrote:

Why wouldn't I take a six man squad of stealth suits instead then? 30 pts apiece with burst cannons= 180 pts, six models, can sneak anywhere on the battlefield.

Honestly, Stealth Suits would be the better option given how cheap they are, how survivable they are now, etc. But, Crisis Suits offer vastly more versatility than Stealth Suits do. A Crisis team is always going to have the same or better firepower compared to a Stealth team (granted for more points) and more importantly can specialize their weapons for a particular role my list needs filled. A Stealth team can only ever have BCs and up to 2 FBs. That's a very limited (though fairly useful) arsenal with a fairly short range of 18". Crisis Suits can specialize into any role I need them in. BCs, Flamers, and AFBs for anti-horde, PRs for anti-MEQ and TEQ, FBs for anti-armor, and MPs and CIBs for more general TAC situations. Depending on what my list is, I can arm my Crisis Suits however I need to plug gaps in my list, while Stealth Suits can only ever be anti-horde with limited anti-armor. And while Stealth Suit's infiltrate is very good, Crisis DSing could potentially be more useful (keeping your unit off the board until your opponent brings in their DSers or reveals what their plan is, allowing you to counter it with DSing.

While Stealth Suits generally speaking will be better options for battlesuit objective holding, Crisis Suits will offer you more flexibility in your list overall. As they should since they're more expensive, but even so, you are getting some things for those extra points that Stealth Suits can't offer you.

The question was regarding the ability to be out on the field to seize objectives and such- which objectively the stealthies are better at for cost.

As for specialization... again, overcosted and unreliable. Whether it's the multi-wound capacity of a fusion blaster, the dakka of a burst cannon or the long range barrage of a missile pod, I can find better, more points effective sources of any of it all over the tau arsenal. I wouldn't call it the worst unit available to us, but it's basically useless. The cost is too high, the advantages too small, and the shooting unreliable. Useless.

Commanders are better in almost every way as others have already said. However, I will probably still run 2 units of 3x crisis suits. One unit with fusion blasters/flamers and another unit with plasma rifles/missile pods.

If you run shadowsun you can at least kauyon twice and bring those BS up to 3+ basically, then with market support (or command link drone) you have some decent crisis suits.

Crisis suits should probably be 5-10 points cheaper or come with BS3+. I always hated how they were veteran firewarriors, but still had relatively crappy aim.

 SevenSeasOfRhye wrote:

 GI_Redshirt wrote:

Why wouldn't I take a six man squad of stealth suits instead then? 30 pts apiece with burst cannons= 180 pts, six models, can sneak anywhere on the battlefield.

Honestly, Stealth Suits would be the better option given how cheap they are, how survivable they are now, etc. But, Crisis Suits offer vastly more versatility than Stealth Suits do. A Crisis team is always going to have the same or better firepower compared to a Stealth team (granted for more points) and more importantly can specialize their weapons for a particular role my list needs filled. A Stealth team can only ever have BCs and up to 2 FBs. That's a very limited (though fairly useful) arsenal with a fairly short range of 18". Crisis Suits can specialize into any role I need them in. BCs, Flamers, and AFBs for anti-horde, PRs for anti-MEQ and TEQ, FBs for anti-armor, and MPs and CIBs for more general TAC situations. Depending on what my list is, I can arm my Crisis Suits however I need to plug gaps in my list, while Stealth Suits can only ever be anti-horde with limited anti-armor. And while Stealth Suit's infiltrate is very good, Crisis DSing could potentially be more useful (keeping your unit off the board until your opponent brings in their DSers or reveals what their plan is, allowing you to counter it with DSing.

While Stealth Suits generally speaking will be better options for battlesuit objective holding, Crisis Suits will offer you more flexibility in your list overall. As they should since they're more expensive, but even so, you are getting some things for those extra points that Stealth Suits can't offer you.

The question was regarding the ability to be out on the field to seize objectives and such- which objectively the stealthies are better at for cost.

As for specialization... again, overcosted and unreliable. Whether it's the multi-wound capacity of a fusion blaster, the dakka of a burst cannon or the long range barrage of a missile pod, I can find better, more points effective sources of any of it all over the tau arsenal. I wouldn't call it the worst unit available to us, but it's basically useless. The cost is too high, the advantages too small, and the shooting unreliable. Useless.

As I stated at the beginning and end of my post, Stealth Suits are clearly the better option right now. What I did was explain what Crisis Suits can offer you if you decide to take them. I did not say they're great, I did not say they're even good. Every other post in this thread has been about why you shouldn't take Crisis Suits, that didn't need to be said again. What I decided to do was explain what they can offer you if you do decide to take them. Cause they can offer things. Are these things potentially covered by other units, possibly better or more efficiently? Yes, but that doesn't mean Crisis Suits don't have their uses.

Are they overcosted? Absolutely. Do they not offer enough advantages to taking them? Debatable, they don't really offer enough but they offer some. Are they useless? Absolutely not. That is a powerful word right there, that I personally only save for units that deserve it. Sky Rays are useless. Razorsharks are useless. Sniper Drones are useless. Crisis Suits are not useless.

Just because something is not OP or the best unit in our codex does not mean they are completely useless, and its getting rather old seeing this line of thinking present in every Tau thread on this site.

I'm thinking of buying the Tau Start collecting box and am curious what I should be kitting them out with. Or maybe I should magnetize them. (I'm getting them more for Dark Heresy models than actual army, but I might ally them in as a force)

But people have been touting that all the battlesuits are garbage now. I've mentioned before that I have yet to play as or against Tau in 8th, but I don't see it. Yes, BS4+ is not great, but as a Guard, Nid and Admech player, that's par for me, so I am not concerned about that, and their cost seems reasonable (maybe not to the rest of your army, but by comparison to what I'm used to paying for other armies, they look normal to me).

3 suits 42 pts per model 126, gear I think would be good: Sheild Generators 24pts for a 4++ on this unit seems worthwhile to me. 150pts, plus Missle pods 24pts per model and Cyclic ion blaster for 18pts per model for a total of 276. A powerful anti heavy infantry or light vehical killer which can take a hit due to the 4++.

I also really like the idea of these donkey-caves, being kitted out with plasma rilfes, flamers and airburst cannons for 126 + gear 216 for a mostly dakka build with a smaller punch from the plasma. This may seem expensive, but when I see these weapons on these deep striking platforms with 3+ T5 3W, I see cheaper, faster better combat servitors which can deepstrike and how many diffrent weapons and support systems they can take makes me very keen on them.

Again, I have yet to fight or use them. But all I can say is, by comparison to Guard, Admech and Nids, these things looks point wise fine to me. But I freely admit, in and of the Tau codex, which I am not familair with, they may seem bad, but from an outsider looking in, they look great.

I don't think Crisis suits are as bad as many in this thread claim. Yes, they're expensive especially compared to last edition, but then a lot of stuff in the Tau codex last edition was undercosted. I think they are very versatile, and with the right buffs and builds they can do well against a variety of targets. They didn't get hit with nearly as big of a price hike as the poor Riptide. That thing is pretty much useless now (makes me glad I only ever got one of them).

@Tsol: Definitely magnetize them. It's super easy to do and will be well worth it since if you want different weapons later on you can just swap them out instead of having to buy more models.

One of the other unmentioned weaknesses/cons to a commander vs. a crisis suit team is that the same weapons that devastate a crisis suit team can cause even more problems with commander suits - 6 wounds is great, until he eats a hard 6 on a lascannon and you're out 160pts in an instant. Crisis suit team is, at least, a bit more survivable in that regard.

Still, I'd say something about a suit-based Tau force still feels 'off'. Missile pods are just a bit overcosted now, I feel. For their current points costs, I feel like seeing crisis suits at a BS3+ would be better - could keep MPs at their current points if that were the case.

The marker light changes are not great, compared to what Tau had previously; however, now you only really need one marker light hit. More provides substantial diminishing returns - trying to get the magic 5 is hardly worth the investment.

The day of the 2xMP suit seems dead for now - MPs cost too much, imo, though I'd try pairing them with a multi tracker rather than an ATS. Removes their need for marker light support and gives them near BS3+.

Personally think the 'Tau suits get BS4+' as base convention needs to end. But hey, maybe they'll fix markerlights.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I don't think Crisis suits are as bad as many in this thread claim. .

I tend to agree, though they need the 5 markerlight hits, but you're going to bring Pathfinders anyways, right?

Right now I think triple plasma Crisis is largely unfairly ignored. 225 points for 9 Plasma Rifles (18 shots at 12") seems dangerous and versatile, what with movement and range.

 Tsol wrote:
I'm thinking of buying the Tau Start collecting box and am curious what I should be kitting them out with. Or maybe I should magnetize them. (I'm getting them more for Dark Heresy models than actual army, but I might ally them in as a force)

But people have been touting that all the battlesuits are garbage now. I've mentioned before that I have yet to play as or against Tau in 8th, but I don't see it. Yes, BS4+ is not great, but as a Guard, Nid and Admech player, that's par for me, so I am not concerned about that, and their cost seems reasonable (maybe not to the rest of your army, but by comparison to what I'm used to paying for other armies, they look normal to me).

3 suits 42 pts per model 126, gear I think would be good: Sheild Generators 24pts for a 4++ on this unit seems worthwhile to me. 150pts, plus Missle pods 24pts per model and Cyclic ion blaster for 18pts per model for a total of 276. A powerful anti heavy infantry or light vehical killer which can take a hit due to the 4++.

I also really like the idea of these donkey-caves, being kitted out with plasma rilfes, flamers and airburst cannons for 126 + gear 216 for a mostly dakka build with a smaller punch from the plasma. This may seem expensive, but when I see these weapons on these deep striking platforms with 3+ T5 3W, I see cheaper, faster better combat servitors which can deepstrike and how many diffrent weapons and support systems they can take makes me very keen on them.

Again, I have yet to fight or use them. But all I can say is, by comparison to Guard, Admech and Nids, these things looks point wise fine to me. But I freely admit, in and of the Tau codex, which I am not familair with, they may seem bad, but from an outsider looking in, they look great.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: anything the suits can do, other options from the tau arsenal can do better, for a lesser points cost. About 300 points for 12 4+ s7 shots? Spend that on a couple broadsides, or on a riptide with an ion accelerator. They still hit on a 4+, but they'll hit harder and survive better. At this point, investing in crisis suits is a waste if you consider what you get for your points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I don't think Crisis suits are as bad as many in this thread claim. Yes, they're expensive especially compared to last edition, but then a lot of stuff in the Tau codex last edition was undercosted. I think they are very versatile, and with the right buffs and builds they can do well against a variety of targets. They didn't get hit with nearly as big of a price hike as the poor Riptide. That thing is pretty much useless now (makes me glad I only ever got one of them).

@Tsol: Definitely magnetize them. It's super easy to do and will be well worth it since if you want different weapons later on you can just swap them out instead of having to buy more models.

Untrue. The riptide is up only by about a 100 pts, which given what it does now is nowhere near as bad as the XV8 price increase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

GhostRecon wrote:
One of the other unmentioned weaknesses/cons to a commander vs. a crisis suit team is that the same weapons that devastate a crisis suit team can cause even more problems with commander suits - 6 wounds is great, until he eats a hard 6 on a lascannon and you're out 160pts in an instant. Crisis suit team is, at least, a bit more survivable in that regard.

Still, I'd say something about a suit-based Tau force still feels 'off'. Missile pods are just a bit overcosted now, I feel. For their current points costs, I feel like seeing crisis suits at a BS3+ would be better - could keep MPs at their current points if that were the case.

The marker light changes are not great, compared to what Tau had previously; however, now you only really need one marker light hit. More provides substantial diminishing returns - trying to get the magic 5 is hardly worth the investment.

The day of the 2xMP suit seems dead for now - MPs cost too much, imo, though I'd try pairing them with a multi tracker rather than an ATS. Removes their need for marker light support and gives them near BS3+.

Personally think the 'Tau suits get BS4+' as base convention needs to end. But hey, maybe they'll fix markerlights.

Yeah, you don't really expect fusion commanders to survive for too long- the advantage is that they're going to wreck face before they die. Just yesterday I butchered a hellbrute and a heldrake on my first turn with 2 fusion commanders, something I could never have expected to have done with 2 crisis teams (especially since I wouldn't have been able to afford all the good stuff if I had).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 John Prins wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I don't think Crisis suits are as bad as many in this thread claim. .

I tend to agree, though they need the 5 markerlight hits, but you're going to bring Pathfinders anyways, right?

Right now I think triple plasma Crisis is largely unfairly ignored. 225 points for 9 Plasma Rifles (18 shots at 12") seems dangerous and versatile, what with movement and range.

Good vs space marines and basically nothing else? You want a list that could go up against anything. Missile pods are still more versatile- 2 pods and an ATS would give you 4 s7 shots at 36' range with -2 rend... which would be a good, versatile choice if it didn't cost you 98 pts a model.

 SevenSeasOfRhye wrote:

 Tsol wrote:
I'm thinking of buying the Tau Start collecting box and am curious what I should be kitting them out with. Or maybe I should magnetize them. (I'm getting them more for Dark Heresy models than actual army, but I might ally them in as a force)

But people have been touting that all the battlesuits are garbage now. I've mentioned before that I have yet to play as or against Tau in 8th, but I don't see it. Yes, BS4+ is not great, but as a Guard, Nid and Admech player, that's par for me, so I am not concerned about that, and their cost seems reasonable (maybe not to the rest of your army, but by comparison to what I'm used to paying for other armies, they look normal to me).

3 suits 42 pts per model 126, gear I think would be good: Sheild Generators 24pts for a 4++ on this unit seems worthwhile to me. 150pts, plus Missle pods 24pts per model and Cyclic ion blaster for 18pts per model for a total of 276. A powerful anti heavy infantry or light vehical killer which can take a hit due to the 4++.

I also really like the idea of these donkey-caves, being kitted out with plasma rilfes, flamers and airburst cannons for 126 + gear 216 for a mostly dakka build with a smaller punch from the plasma. This may seem expensive, but when I see these weapons on these deep striking platforms with 3+ T5 3W, I see cheaper, faster better combat servitors which can deepstrike and how many diffrent weapons and support systems they can take makes me very keen on them.

Again, I have yet to fight or use them. But all I can say is, by comparison to Guard, Admech and Nids, these things looks point wise fine to me. But I freely admit, in and of the Tau codex, which I am not familair with, they may seem bad, but from an outsider looking in, they look great.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: anything the suits can do, other options from the tau arsenal can do better, for a lesser points cost. About 300 points for 12 4+ s7 shots? Spend that on a couple broadsides, or on a riptide with an ion accelerator. They still hit on a 4+, but they'll hit harder and survive better. At this point, investing in crisis suits is a waste if you consider what you get for your points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I don't think Crisis suits are as bad as many in this thread claim. Yes, they're expensive especially compared to last edition, but then a lot of stuff in the Tau codex last edition was undercosted. I think they are very versatile, and with the right buffs and builds they can do well against a variety of targets. They didn't get hit with nearly as big of a price hike as the poor Riptide. That thing is pretty much useless now (makes me glad I only ever got one of them).

@Tsol: Definitely magnetize them. It's super easy to do and will be well worth it since if you want different weapons later on you can just swap them out instead of having to buy more models.

Untrue. The riptide is up only by about a 100 pts, which given what it does now is nowhere near as bad as the XV8 price increase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

GhostRecon wrote:
One of the other unmentioned weaknesses/cons to a commander vs. a crisis suit team is that the same weapons that devastate a crisis suit team can cause even more problems with commander suits - 6 wounds is great, until he eats a hard 6 on a lascannon and you're out 160pts in an instant. Crisis suit team is, at least, a bit more survivable in that regard.

Still, I'd say something about a suit-based Tau force still feels 'off'. Missile pods are just a bit overcosted now, I feel. For their current points costs, I feel like seeing crisis suits at a BS3+ would be better - could keep MPs at their current points if that were the case.

The marker light changes are not great, compared to what Tau had previously; however, now you only really need one marker light hit. More provides substantial diminishing returns - trying to get the magic 5 is hardly worth the investment.

The day of the 2xMP suit seems dead for now - MPs cost too much, imo, though I'd try pairing them with a multi tracker rather than an ATS. Removes their need for marker light support and gives them near BS3+.

Personally think the 'Tau suits get BS4+' as base convention needs to end. But hey, maybe they'll fix markerlights.

Yeah, you don't really expect fusion commanders to survive for too long- the advantage is that they're going to wreck face before they die. Just yesterday I butchered a hellbrute and a heldrake on my first turn with 2 fusion commanders, something I could never have expected to have done with 2 crisis teams (especially since I wouldn't have been able to afford all the good stuff if I had).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 John Prins wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I don't think Crisis suits are as bad as many in this thread claim. .

I tend to agree, though they need the 5 markerlight hits, but you're going to bring Pathfinders anyways, right?

Right now I think triple plasma Crisis is largely unfairly ignored. 225 points for 9 Plasma Rifles (18 shots at 12") seems dangerous and versatile, what with movement and range.

Good vs space marines and basically nothing else? You want a list that could go up against anything. Missile pods are still more versatile- 2 pods and an ATS would give you 4 s7 shots at 36' range with -2 rend... which would be a good, versatile choice if it didn't cost you 98 pts a model.

MPs are overcosted at present other weapon options are more efficient on suits. https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/733068.page

For Crisis Team-specific weapons, Plasma Rifles, particularly in rapid fire, along with Burst Cannons are generally more points efficient as the chart I linked can show.