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Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

Tankbusta bomb could have been really nice if boyz still had their free bomb every 10 dudes. Trukk boyz would have loved it.


 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Kebabcito wrote:
We have thr worst stratagems of 9th codexes


We have -1 to hit and 5++ almost army wide for 4 cp. Hard to call it bad, really.
Carreen is also great.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For me, best starts are: forcefield boosta, -1 to hit and careen. Will very unlikely use much else cause of cp spent on extra traits, relics and an outside detach

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 07:22:52


 
   
Made in bg
Regular Dakkanaut




TedNugent wrote:
pepi55 wrote:
also, rate my killy kill list:

Spoiler:

+++ 500 - New Ork (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [28 PL, 3CP, 500pts] +++

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Orks 2021) [28 PL, 3CP, 500pts] ++
Rules: Ork Detachment Abilities, Waaagh!

+ Configuration [3CP] +

Battle Size [3CP]: 1. Combat Patrol (0-50 Total PL / 0-500 Points) [3CP]
. Categories: Configuration

Clan Kultur: Goffs
. Categories: Configuration
. Abilities: Goffs
Profiles:
. Goffs: Description:- Each time a model with this kultur makes a melee attack, an unmodified hit roll of 6 scores 1 additional hit.
- Each time a model with this kultur makes a melee attack, if this model's unit makes a charge move, or perfformed a Heroic Intervention this turn, add 1 to the Strength characteristic of that attack.

Detachment Command Cost
. Categories: Configuration

+ HQ [5 PL, 90pts] +

Warboss [5 PL, 90pts]: Big Choppa, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, Kombi-skorcha, Proper Killy, 2x Slugga, Stikkbombs, Warlord
. Categories: Character, Infantry, Warboss, HQ, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Warlord, Warlord - Goffs
. Rules: 'Ere We Go!
. Abilities: Dead Tough, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, Kombi-skorcha, Proper Killy, Warboss (Aura), Unit: Warboss, Weapon: Big Choppa, Headwoppa's Killchoppa, Shoota, Skorcha, Slugga, Stikkbomb
Profiles:
. Dead Tough: Description:This model has a 5+ invulnerable save.
. Headwoppa's Killchoppa: Description:Model equipped with beastchoppa, big choppa or 'uge choppa only. This Relic replaces a beastchoppa, big choppa or 'uge choppa and has the following profile.
. Kombi-skorcha: Description:Before selecting targets, select one or both of the profiles below to make attacks with. If you select both, then each time an attack is made with this weapon this phase, subtract 1 from the attack's hit roll.
. Proper Killy: Description:- Add 1 to your Warlord’s Attacks characteristic
- Each time this WARLORD makes a melee attack, improve the Armour Penetration characteristic of that attack by 1.
. Warboss (Aura): Description:While a friendly <CLAN> CORE or <CLAN> CHARACTER unit is within 6" of this model, each time a model in that unit makes a melee attack, add 1 to that attack's hit roll.
. Warboss: M:5"|WS:2+|BS:5+|S:6|T:6|W:6|A:5|Ld:8|Save:4+
. Big Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:+2|AP:-1|D:2|Abilities:-
. Headwoppa's Killchoppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:x2|AP:-3|D:2|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon, an unmodified wound roll of 6 inflicts 1 mortal wound on the target in addition to any normal damage.
. Shoota: Range:18"|Typeakka 3/2|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Skorcha: Range:12"|Type:Assault D6|S:5|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon profile, that attack automatically hits the target.
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast

+ Troops [5 PL, 90pts] +

Boyz [5 PL, 90pts]
. Categories: Boyz, Infantry, Faction: Orks, Faction: <Clan>, Troops
. Rules: 'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule
. Boss Nob [9pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. . Unit: Boss Nob, Weapon: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb
. 9x Ork Boy w/ Slugga & Choppa [81pts]: 9x Choppa, 9x Slugga, 9x Stikkbombs
. . Unit: Ork Boy, Weapon: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb
Profiles:
. Boss Nob: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:6+
. Ork Boy: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:4|T:5|W:1|A:2|Ld:6|Save:6+
. Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:User|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast

+ Elites [6 PL, 110pts] +

Nobz [6 PL, 110pts]: Trukk Boyz
. Categories: Elites, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Infantry, Nobz, Core, Specialist Mob, Faction: Trukk Boyz
. Rules: 'Ere We Go!, Mob Rule
. Abilities: Keepin' Order, Trukk Boyz
. Boss Nob [26pts]: Choppa, Power Klaw [8pts], Stikkbombs
. . Unit: Boss Nob (Nobz), Weapon: Choppa, Power Klaw, Stikkbomb
. Nob [21pts]: Big Choppa [3pts], Choppa, Stikkbombs
. . Unit: Nob, Weapon: Big Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbomb
. Nob [21pts]: Big Choppa [3pts], Choppa, Stikkbombs
. . Unit: Nob, Weapon: Big Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbomb
. Nob [21pts]: Big Choppa [3pts], Choppa, Stikkbombs
. . Unit: Nob, Weapon: Big Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbomb
. Nob [21pts]: Big Choppa [3pts], Choppa, Stikkbombs
. . Unit: Nob, Weapon: Big Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbomb
Profiles:
. Keepin' Order: Description:While a <CLAN> unit is within 3" of any friendly <CLAN> units with this ability, each time a model would flee that unit as a result of a failed Morale or Combat Attrition test, roll one D6: on a 6, that model does not flee.
. Trukk Boyz: Description:BOYZ, NOB or WARBOSS units only. The selected unit gains the TRUKK BOYZ keyword and the following ability:

Trukk Boyz: A TRUKK BOYZ unit can disembark from a TRUKK even if that TRUKK has made a Normal Move this phase. While any TRUKK BOYZ units are embarked upon a TRUKK, each time that TRUKK model makes a ranged attack, add 1 to that attack's hit roll.
. Boss Nob (Nobz): M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:4+
. Nob: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:5|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:4+
. Big Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:+2|AP:-1|D:2|Abilities:-
. Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:User|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.
. Power Klaw: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:x2|AP:-3|D:2|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon, subtract 1 from that attack's hit roll.
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast

+ Heavy Support [7 PL, 120pts] +

Killa Kans [7 PL, 120pts]
. Categories: Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Vehicle, Heavy Support, Killa Kans, Gretchin, Walkerz
. Abilities: Explodes, Ramshackle, Scrag 'Em
. Killa Kan [40pts]: Grotzooka, Kan Klaw
. . Unit: Killa Kan, Weapon: Grotzooka, Kan Klaw
. Killa Kan [40pts]: Grotzooka, Kan Klaw
. . Unit: Killa Kan, Weapon: Grotzooka, Kan Klaw
. Killa Kan [40pts]: Grotzooka, Kan Klaw
. . Unit: Killa Kan, Weapon: Grotzooka, Kan Klaw
Profiles:
. Explodes: Description:If this model is reduced to 0 wounds, roll a D6 before removing it from the battlefield and before any embarked models disembark. On a 6 it explodes, and each unit within 3" suffers 1 mortal wound.
. Ramshackle: Description:Each time an attack is allocated to this model, unless that attack has a Strength characteristic of 8 or more, subtract 1 from the Damage characteristic of that attack (to a minimum of 1)
. Scrag 'Em: Description:While this unit contains 3 or more models, add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of models in this unit.
. Killa Kan: M:6"|WS:4+|BS:4+|S:5|T:5|W:5|A:3|Ld:6|Save:3+
. Grotzooka: Range:18"|Type:Heavy 2D3|S:6|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
. Kan Klaw: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:+3|AP:-3|D:3|Abilities:-

+ Dedicated Transport [5 PL, 90pts] +

Trukk [5 PL, 90pts]: Big Shoota, Fortress on Wheels [1 PL, 20pts]
. Categories: Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Orks, Transport, Trukk, Vehicle, Dedicated Transport
. Rules: 'Ere We Go!
. Abilities: Explodes, Fortress on Wheels, Open-Topped, Ramshackle, Transport: Trukk, Unit: Trukk [1] (6-10+ Wounds Remaining), Trukk [2] (3-5 Wounds Remaining), Trukk [3] (1-2 Wounds Remaining), Weapon: Big Shoota
Profiles:
. Explodes: Description:When this transport is destroyed, roll one D6 before any embarked models disembark and before removing it from play. On a 6, it explodes, and each unit within 6" suffers D3 moral wounds.
. Fortress on Wheels: Description:TRUKK or WAGON model only. This model has a 5+ invulnerable save.
. Open-Topped: Description:In your Shooting phase, units embarked within this transport can be selected to shoot with; measure distances and draw line of sight from any point on this transport when doing so. If this transport made a Normal Move, Advanced or Fell Back this turn, embarked units are considered to have done the same. While this transport is within Engagement Range of any enemy units, embarked units cannot shoot, excpet with Pistols.
. Ramshackle: Description:Each time an attack is allocated to this model, unless that attack has a Strength characteristic of 8 or more, subtract 1 from the Damage characteristic of that attack (to a minimum of 1)
. Trukk: Capacity:This model has a transport capacity of 12 FLASH GITZ or <CLAN> INFANTRY models. Each MEGA ARMOUR or JUMP PACK model takes up the space of 2 models.
. Trukk [1] (6-10+ Wounds Remaining): M:12"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:6|T:6|W:10|A:3|Ld:6|Save:4+
. Trukk [2] (3-5 Wounds Remaining): M:8"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:5|T:6|W:N/A|A3|Ld:6|Save:4+
. Trukk [3] (1-2 Wounds Remaining): M:6"|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:4|T:6|W:N/A|A:1|Ld:6|Save:4+
. Big Shoota: Range:36"|Typeakka 5/3|S:5|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-

++ Roster Rules ++


. Ork Detachment Abilities: - <CLAN> units (excluding GRETCHIN units) in ORKS Detachments gain the Clan Kulturs ability.
- Troops units (excluding GRETCHIN units) in ORKS Detachments gain the Objective Secured ability (this ability is described in the Warhammer 40,000 Core Book).

. Waaagh!: If your WARLORD is a WARBOSS, then once per battle, in your Command phase, you can call a Waaagh!. To do so, that WARBOSS must be on the battlefield or embarked on a TRANSPORT that is on the battlefield. If your WARLORD is a SPEEDBOSS, then once per battle, in your COmmand phase, you can instead call a Speedwaaagh!. To do so, that SPEEDBOSS must be on the battlefield. If your WARLORD is GHAZGHKULL THRAKA, you can instead call a Great Waaagh!.

To do so, GHAZGHKULL THRAKA must be on the battlefield or embarked on a TRANSPORT that is on the battlefield.

A Waaagh! and Speedwaagh! each have two stages. The first stage is active from when the Waaagh! or Speedwaaagh! is called, and lasts until the start of your next Command phase. When the first stage ends, the second stage starts, and lasts until the start of your subsequent Command phase. After this point, the Waaagh! or Speedwaaagh! is no longer active, and has no further effect. Calling a Great Waaagh! is treated as calling both a Waaagh! and a Speedwaagh! at the same time. Both are active from when the Great Waaagh! is called, and each stage starts and finishes as described above.

WAAAAGH!
Stage 1: Call Da Waaagh!
- ORKS CORE and ORKS CHARACTER units from your army are eligible to declare a charge even if they Advanced this turn.
- Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic or ORKS models from your army.

Stage 2: Get Stuck In!
- Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of ORKS models from your army.

SPEEDWAAAGH!
Stage 1: Da Big Race
- ORKS models from your army do not suffer the penalty incurred to their hit rolls for firing Assault weapons in the same turn their unit Advanced. Each time an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER model from your army shoots with a Dakka weapon, make 1 additional attack with that weapon.
- Each time a model in an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER unit from your army makes a ranged attack, improve the Armour Penetration charcateristic of that attack by 1.

Stage 2: Give 'Em Sum Dakka!
- Each time a model in an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER unit from your army makes a ranged attack, improve the Armour Penetration charcateristic of that attack by 1.

++ Selection Rules ++


. 'Ere We Go!: You can re-roll charge rolls made for units with this ability.

. Mob Rule: While this unit is within 6" of a friendly <CLAN> MOB unit that is not under half strength, this unit is never considered to be under half strength

Boyz will probably hold back objective while the trukk with nobz + warboss go get whatever the opponent is sitting on and the kanz will teleport either in response of an enemy teleport or on another objective I need. sounds good?

Brutal but Kunnin' is strictly better than proper killy, you get more attacks from it.

On average with killchoppa and 5 attacks you would score 2.86 unsaved wounds against MEQs, which means you get 2 extra attacks on average. It's even better if you take the attack squig since it does not specify the weapon you make the extra attacks with.

Tellyporta counts as moved so those kans are hitting on 5's when they arrive. One Skorcha does as much damage as two Grotzookas and is an assault weapon that isn't affected by your normal move/teleport. Three Grotzookas at BS5 does 1.29 wounds on MEQs, one Skorcha does 1.15. So with two skorchas you could do about an extra wound versus three Grotzookas coming out of tellyporta.


Like everyone said, kanz dont get -1 after moving because that modifier applies to infantry exclusively. The big shoota arguments do sound solid though so I did change them to big shootas.

I got confused by the "does not specify the extra attacks" but then I realized that you were talking about Brutal but kunnin'. The attack squig is nice in that regard but I would have to give up the 5++ on the trukk which im not too sure about... I would like the trukkboiz to be able to do something at least once in a game before getting utterly destroyed but then again, the trukk is really there just to pseudo tellyport the nobz into the enemy lines so perhaps squighide tyres is better.
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




Tide of Muscle is situationally fantastic. It's one of those strats that you won't use every game but I'm really happy it's in the book..
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






 TedNugent wrote:
 koooaei wrote:


However, I must admit that the better our shooting gets, the less you need your mellee as it's quite mediocre and unreliable by today's standards.


To challenge the point for sake of argument, what about the Squigosaur and Beasthog riders? Snagga cavalry appears to have some serious hitting power.

By point of comparison.

A beasthog sits at 25 PPM and carries 5 S6 AP-2 2 D attacks
A nob with Big Choppa sits at 21 PPM and carries 3 S7 AP-1 2 D attacks

Nobs are doggak by comparison. To add insult to injury, Beasthog has twice the base movement speed, +1 W and +1 T with a 6++.

A Squigosaur with BBK and a Killchoppa is legitimately terrifying in combat. 5 base attacks that get a rerun at S12, and 3 additional attacks at S7 and damage 3. Alternately, you could build one with the Mantle and Proper Killy for 7 S8 AP-4 D2 attacks on the charge plus the 3 attacks from the squig jaws.

With Goffs, both of the above are capable of quite a lot in comparison to, say, Warbikers, which are anemic by comparison in combat. You can also get an extra attack on the Waaagh, plus exploding 6's, +1 to wound with Snakebites, +1 damage on squig attacks with beast relic that fits easily on a beast rig.

For reference, a squighog rider at base puts out about the following:
Spoiler:

1.43 unsaved wounds per model (substantially more than a PK nob) at 2 damage for 25 PPM
With Snakebites:
1.8 unsaved wounds
With Goffs:
1.43 with a 5/6 chance at exploding hit

A unit of 3 in aura range of the boss with snakebites:
2.27 * 3 = 6.8 wounds at 2 damage each for a mere 75 points alongside 145 points for the boss.


That said, I have heard they have big bases and are clunky to get around terrain, and only 10" movement speed means you'd have to maneuver them effectively to get them in combat.

Is it really time to dump combat when we have snagga options like these?


Well, yeah, we have some good mellee elements. But they require a separate detachment and take away from freebootas. Another concern is that our mellee can't deal with real mellee from other books as they get to fight first and we get severely crippled before we get to strike. But anyway, an outrider snakebite detach with white squig and 3*5 squighogs or with goff zag and 3*10 stormboyz or some boss, maybe snikrot and 3*10 kommandoez can be decent in a 2k game where you can still get all the shooting you want and use your mellee on a flank.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My problem with mellee is that I'm running freeboota buggies and will simply lack cp for an extra mellee detach. So, I'm sticking with trukkbiyz meganobz as a mediocre mellee element. At least they're fast and can perform actions when needed.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/03 09:23:53


 
   
Made in us
Squishy Squighound




Even though i am still green i am feeling this a lot.

Our melee is average, some one mentioned this, if we focus on shooting, we go into the game with the feeling of inherited disadvantag?

So it feels we are set to lose if we focus on one thing alone?

What i notice is we have a huge access to MW in melee, Relics/abilities/strats and their easy grabs. I am not familiar with other army's but Deffkilla Wartrike/scrapjets comes to mind. The more i play the more i tend to want to use it to max impact, like the old Burna bomber.

In shooting in general feels more like we have to bring schorchas or huge amount of shots or it ain't worth it, like Bikes/Dakkajet/squidbuggies/snazzwagon/schorchadreads/deffkopas.
But maybe i am wrong, i am still learning...

In my local, everyone is mostly shooting army's and i am like one the only one that try's melee, it becomes an uphill trying to play orcs when you can be tabled in 1 turn.

Also i think our infantry is mostly for tar-piting, expecting them to do damage is a bonus so i really like Kommandos in this codex
Anyway, i am just trying to make heads from tail how to build an army that is flexible to approach any threat reasonably but i am finding it challenging.

   
Made in gb
Tunneling Trygon






SemperMortis wrote:
Hot garbage:
Breaking Heads - 2CP This one is also a Former Ability, kill your own models instead of letting morale do it for you. Only time you would ever really use this is if you had a bad morale check and a big unit with 25+ models failed morale, even than a bit of luck with rolling and you would still break even with this.



Gonna jump on this as I think while it's still situational, this stratagem will be more useful than anyone has given it credit for.

It's used after rolling the morale test, which means unlike Insane Bravery you get at least 1 in 6 (possibly higher) opportunity to not spend any CP at all. The core stratagem must be used before finding out if you need to and can only be done once per game, making it a risk to use up front in times when you're likely to pass morale.

If you do fail the morale test then you will lose 1 Ork plus any that fail the combat attrition test. By using Breakin' Heads at this point there's a 1 in 3 chance of being no worse off aside from the CP cost. You always lose a minimum of 1 model anyway, while the stratagem can cost 1, 2, or 3 wounds.

Statistically average CA rolls mean the following:
6 models = 1+1 models lost
12 models = 1+2 models lost
18 models = 1+3 models lost
24 models = 1+4 models lost

So it takes a failed morale check on a unit size larger than 12 before you 'break even' with the worst-case D3 roll from Breakin' Heads. In the most common scenario, the main use for the stratagem will be as a hedge against bad attrition rolls and/or when those rolls can cause you to lose critical mass in a mob. Perhaps a few extra models will ensure winning an prolonged melee, or guarantee you hold a contested objective in the late game. Situational, sure. So why should I dedicate my limited Orky brainspace to remembering this rule exists?

Firstly it inflicts wounds rather than dead models. So after failing a morale test on a multi-wound unit of Squighogs, Warbikes, or Meganobz you're looking at one guaranteed model gone, possibly plus others with some poor luck on CA rolls. Or you can take D3 wounds and have decent chance at not losing any models at all.

On top of this you'd almost definitely want to use Breakin' Heads when an important unit is facing modifiers to combat attrition tests:

With just a -1 modifier you're likely looking at:
6 models = 1+2 models lost
12 models = 1+4 models lost
18 models = 1+6 models lost
24 models = 1+8 models lost

Of course that's just for an average roll, it could well be much worse. I don't think there's anyone reading this who has never managed to roll a majority of 1's and 2's at a critical time.

In a worst-case scenario you can even be looking at -2 or -3 modifiers if nothing is around to grant Mob Rule. Several factions already have access to multiple modifiers on combat attrition tests, or can force nearby enemies to count as being below half unit strength when they're not. Drukhari can even score secondary VPs for each model that flees.

There will undoubtedly be more special rules to interact with enemy morale in future codexes & supplements. While I don't think Breakin' Heads is an auto-use option like some, it can definitely make a difference at the right moment.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 10:35:45


 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






SemperMortis wrote:
Has anyone else really paid attention to how crap our new stratagems are? I want to break them down into a few categories and I'll highlight them if they got worse between editions.

Competitive:
Ramming Speed - 2CP same as before. roll 3D6 for charge, inflict mortals on a 2+.

Extra Gubbinz - 1CP honestly one of the best ones we have. Lets you take extra relics.

Big Boss - 1CP same as Extra gubbinz except warlord traits for other characters. AWESOME.

Tellyporta - 2CP same as always. You can tellyporta any unit you want except Monsters and 20PR+

It's strange that this is one of your top picks to me. Honestly, deep strike now feels so dubious in so many situations given the nature of the micro-board you basically feel like you almost dont get anything out of it at all besides shittier charge rolls. The combo with ramming speed is there, but it is a 4CP combo...


Good:
Hit'em harder - 2CP Meganobz gain +1Dmg

Orkz is Never Beaten - 2CP NERF This now lets a character fight if they hadnt this turn, it used to allow the character to fight twice if it died after swinging.

Well, yeah. This was always going to do this after SM had the exact same strat changed.

Cloud of Smoke - 2CP If you are running big groups of speed freakz this is a must use strat. Gives -1 to hit for all speedfreak vehicles within 6' of a selected speed freak vehicle.
Good but it is worth noting that you can also choose to just build around this by including an army of warbikes, boomdakka snazzwagons, and flyers which are all good and all get -1 to hit native. Deffcoptas are really the only must-use unit for this strat and if you're running evil sunz for your freek list, theyre a great candidate for the jsj spell instead to get a big unit jumping out and jumping back behind Obscuring. Food for thought.

Situational:
Careen - 1/2CP If you blow up, move 6' towards your opponent before blowing up.

If by "Situational" you mean "Every time I roll for my vehicle to explode, ever" then yeah. It's free mortal wound-estate!

Get Stuck In Ladz - 1/2CP move 3' more in pile in/consolidate.

Tough As Squig Hide - 2CP On Beast snagga models you gain Full Transhuman.

Da Bigger Dey Iz - 2CP +2Dmg for warbosses engaged with Titanic units.

Tide Of Muscle - 1CP ignore negative modifiers to charge range.

Unstoppable Momentum - 1CP this will be used rarely. Lets you charge a 2nd time with a Nob on Smasha Squig if after his initial charge he kills enough enemies with his Mortal wounds to be out of engagement range.

Burn em All - 1CP situational at best, if the enemy clumps together it might be worth it. If you hit the enemy with a Skorcha missile rack you can inflict 1 MW on every unit within 3 of that targeted unit.

More Dakka - 2CP I was really tempted to bump this one DOWN to Hot garbage. Spend 2 CP to let a unit count as being in half range for dakka weapons. I don't see this being useful for 90% of the game, at best it might be used on an max size Alpha strike unit of Warbikers teamed with the SpeedWaaagh.


Former ability:
Gun Crazy Show Offs - 2CP Old Flashgitz ability...this is honestly better because it guarantees the second round of shooting, its expensive though.

2CP for a shoot twice is absolutely not too expensive on a unit as powerful as flash gits. I've only run my shooty list once, but this strat was absolutely INSANE basically throughout the game. I left my gits til last as I wanted to get them up to +2 to hit and once I got them there they absolutely deleted a pair of expensive squads for just a couple CP. This is miles better than the old ability which was so unreliable as to never be able to be planned around.

Cuttin Flames - 1CP This is the old Burna's CC ability.

Tank Busta Bomb - 1CP They took away our Tank Busta bombs and turned it into a strat that lets 1 model in a unit use a single attack in CC to do 2D3 mortal wounds if it hits. Its not terrible for 1CP but compared to what we used to do with Tank busta bombs (grenade strat and 10D3 Rokkitz) its kind of crap.
Werent old TBBs 1 in 10 models though? How did you get to 10d3 rokkit shots, ever? The way I see it this strat is great for adding threat to min size boyz squads, which are absolutely the new way to run basically any ork unit you're not planning on dumping strats into, and boyz 100% qualify.

Hot garbage:
Breaking Heads - 2CP This one is also a Former Ability, kill your own models instead of letting morale do it for you. Only time you would ever really use this is if you had a bad morale check and a big unit with 25+ models failed morale, even than a bit of luck with rolling and you would still break even with this.

Grot Shields - 2CP Similar to old grot shields except only works with 1 unit of grotz. Adding to that, its too expensive and the grots themselves are too expensive. I don't see Orkz fielding any infantry units big/expensive enough to justify the use of a 50-100pt sacrificial unit.

I mean I can only speak for myself but I made fantastic use out of it in my freebootas test run game. Included a couple 20-man units of grots in my list as objective holders/action doers and used GS to protect my Flash Gitz from enemy fire top of 1 and top of 2.

Lumbering Strides - 1CP Mork/gorkanaut and stompa Lets you use the old version of Ere we go. Complete and utter crap.

I mean it sucks that they took an ability away and gave it back but 1cp to reroll 1 die of a charge roll doesnt sound all that bad. Sometimes you roll a 6 and a 1 and you needed an 8 to get in.

Snagga Grapple - 2CP complete garbage, you will never use this. First off you have to use it at the START of your opponents movement phase, and on a 4+ it stops a unit from leaving combat. For 2CP it should have been automatic and even than it would have been questionable.

yep this is basically the worst stratagem ever made. Every single wrong thing that could have been done with it was done - has to be used at the beginning of the phase, has to do with fall back which basically never happens, limited to a single slice of the codex, 2cp AND 50% chance to just...do nothing.

Ground Shaker Shells - 1CP If you hit a unit with a lobba you can halve their movement next turn and -2 to advance and charge. so incredibly situational that it likely wont be used much at all.

only problem I have with it is its YET ANOTHER fething beast snaggaz only fething stratagem. But if I was including one of those dumb kill rigs, which I am not as I am not out here about to support GW's obnoxious tendency to write entire codexes to shove whatever new release wave they've just put out, I'd use it every turn most games.Unless my opponent has absolutely no units that want to move, at all, it seems highly worthwhile to use.

Force Field Boosta - 2CP Former Ability as well, Gain a 5++ for 1 turn on a 9' bubble and than it blows up and you can't use it ever again. If it was relic yes, if it didn't blow up and could be used multiple times per game and was 1Cp...yes, this? No.

If I was using a KFF unit I feel like I'd end up using this tbh. I'd need to be in a situation where including a KFF was just a 30-point bump on my list, as in, I'm including a Morkanaut or a Megamek with the ded shiny shoota, but then I can easily see with the firepower present in 9th ed this being a highly effective use of 2cp and 30pts.


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
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The problem is this..
There is zero incentive to taking large units of boys anymore.
Any groups of 11+ become a blast liability.
The only transports that can hold 12+ amounts of infantry is the battlewagon and huntarig which are both UN optimal as well.
The changes to morale severely dissuade large units..
Troops are almsot a tax this edition so I don’t. See people maxing out snaggaboys or boys either especially when people are using trukk boys as the default choice for troops.
And between the few morale loss mitigating units we have ghazkull (zero attrition modifiers), zagstrukk (half rounded down all loses from morale), etc plus mob rules. We will unlikely lose more then 2 models to morale and attrition when using a 6-7 leadership.

And if you do happen to take a large unit of 15 stormboys that is outside of mob rule and zagstrukk aura that takes a large amount of casualties… or you opponent stacks a bunch of attrition modifiers and you don’t have a character that prevents it.. you always have insane bravery to use which is better. At this point your large unit is already depleted and likely won’t take another round of huge losses without being wiped out to the point it’s not worth spending 2cp to save…

So considering orks current situation I doubt breakin heads will ever be used in any setting without some crazy niche case.
   
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I've not really sat down to make a list yet but I would really like to make green tide work. I don't think squads of 30 Boyz are viable anymore but smaller squads of 10-15 Boyz with a death dealing nob with big choppa/PK as goffs I think could be a go. I'm thinking of max troops spread evenly around the table and assisted by some good old fashioned threat saturation.
Some squighogs here, warbikers there and mega armoured nobz in wagons charging forward. Add in a sprinkle of ranged firepower in some smasha guns and lootas and I think a reasonably balanced list would have a decent chance.
   
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Regarding strats
Considering I personally think squigbuggies, scrapjets and shockjumps and warboss on bike/wartrike are the better buggies. Cloud of smoke is a phenomenal first round strat.

On the same note I don’t think Kff boosta is complete garbage. It’s bad don’t get me wrong just because the cost of the unit, the kff, the 2cp, and the stop working is so high for a 5++ that it’s only realy use is for a non Snagga list bunched up for first turn invul is the only real use for it. This strat should have been a zero cost or once a game 2cp strat that doesn’t explode. I’d likely never use it but then again all our warbosses and snagga units have an invul now.
Lumbering strides shoukd have been all walkers and meganobs. I mean a reroll is already 1cp this just lets orks have a bit better reliability on charge and would have helped walkers which I think still need help this edition.

I think most ork strats are very situational and I’m only planning on using 3 during my games… ramming speed, extra gubbins, big boss will be used on every list… cloud of smoke will be used in every list with several buggies… and careen will be used in the occasional situation where I roll a 6 to explode and there is an enemy within 6in…. Which isn’t as common as people try to make out.
   
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gungo wrote:
The problem is this..
There is zero incentive to taking large units of boys anymore.
Any groups of 11+ become a blast liability.
The only transports that can hold 12+ amounts of infantry is the battlewagon and huntarig which are both UN optimal as well.
The changes to morale severely dissuade large units..
Troops are almsot a tax this edition so I don’t. See people maxing out snaggaboys or boys either especially when people are using trukk boys as the default choice for troops.
And between the few morale loss mitigating units we have ghazkull (zero attrition modifiers), zagstrukk (half rounded down all loses from morale), etc plus mob rules. We will unlikely lose more then 2 models to morale and attrition when using a 6-7 leadership.

And if you do happen to take a large unit of 15 stormboys that is outside of mob rule and zagstrukk aura that takes a large amount of casualties… or you opponent stacks a bunch of attrition modifiers and you don’t have a character that prevents it.. you always have insane bravery to use which is better. At this point your large unit is already depleted and likely won’t take another round of huge losses without being wiped out to the point it’s not worth spending 2cp to save…

So considering orks current situation I doubt breakin heads will ever be used in any setting without some crazy niche case.


the main thing that bumping up your unit size does for you is make you more able to use strats and targeted powers/abilities which we have fairly few of tbh. i can see making a list purposefully to revolve around scoring Green Tide that uses a lot of 11 or 15-model Boyz, stormboyz, and kommandoz units in Blood Axes with I've got a plan ladz and I can see using large mobs of stormboyz with zagstruk but otherwise...yeah. Blast hurts. We dont really get anything from being 20x1 as opposed to 10x2, really at all. Overwatch for free is gone. 20+ attack bonus is gone. UGT+old Get Stuck In is gone. It's hard to see how Warpath alone warrants the massive massive downside of large mobs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 12:01:10


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
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Rogerio134134 wrote:
I've not really sat down to make a list yet but I would really like to make green tide work. I don't think squads of 30 Boyz are viable anymore but smaller squads of 10-15 Boyz with a death dealing nob with big choppa/PK as goffs I think could be a go. I'm thinking of max troops spread evenly around the table and assisted by some good old fashioned threat saturation.
Some squighogs here, warbikers there and mega armoured nobz in wagons charging forward. Add in a sprinkle of ranged firepower in some smasha guns and lootas and I think a reasonably balanced list would have a decent chance.

The only green tide I see working is some combination of msu kommando/stormboy/trukk boy spam with lots of pks/big choppas and an evilsun warboss on bike using follow me lads warlord trait and rezdmeka armor.

During the Waagh you get move advance and charge. Your stormboys move 20in, your warboss on bike 25in move, and any unit that charges behind your warboss into units he’s able to get into engagement range will also get +1 to charge and they all attack first.

That’s a very strong first turn charge.
   
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gungo wrote:
Rogerio134134 wrote:
I've not really sat down to make a list yet but I would really like to make green tide work. I don't think squads of 30 Boyz are viable anymore but smaller squads of 10-15 Boyz with a death dealing nob with big choppa/PK as goffs I think could be a go. I'm thinking of max troops spread evenly around the table and assisted by some good old fashioned threat saturation.
Some squighogs here, warbikers there and mega armoured nobz in wagons charging forward. Add in a sprinkle of ranged firepower in some smasha guns and lootas and I think a reasonably balanced list would have a decent chance.

The only green tide I see working is some combination of msu kommando/stormboy/trukk boy spam with lots of pks/big choppas and an evilsun warboss on bike using follow me lads warlord trait and rezdmeka armor.

During the Waagh you get move advance and charge. Your stormboys move 20in, your warboss on bike 25in move, and any unit that charges behind your warboss into units he’s able to get into engagement range will also get +1 to charge and they all attack first.

That’s a very strong first turn charge.


This is true, and I'm honestly not convinced that second turn is as crippling for kommandos as some folks seem to think it is. It's a 10pt T5 3+ model in cover, that's hot as hell.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 the_scotsman wrote:
gungo wrote:
The problem is this..
There is zero incentive to taking large units of boys anymore.
Any groups of 11+ become a blast liability.
The only transports that can hold 12+ amounts of infantry is the battlewagon and huntarig which are both UN optimal as well.
The changes to morale severely dissuade large units..
Troops are almsot a tax this edition so I don’t. See people maxing out snaggaboys or boys either especially when people are using trukk boys as the default choice for troops.
And between the few morale loss mitigating units we have ghazkull (zero attrition modifiers), zagstrukk (half rounded down all loses from morale), etc plus mob rules. We will unlikely lose more then 2 models to morale and attrition when using a 6-7 leadership.

And if you do happen to take a large unit of 15 stormboys that is outside of mob rule and zagstrukk aura that takes a large amount of casualties… or you opponent stacks a bunch of attrition modifiers and you don’t have a character that prevents it.. you always have insane bravery to use which is better. At this point your large unit is already depleted and likely won’t take another round of huge losses without being wiped out to the point it’s not worth spending 2cp to save…

So considering orks current situation I doubt breakin heads will ever be used in any setting without some crazy niche case.


the main thing that bumping up your unit size does for you is make you more able to use strats and targeted powers/abilities which we have fairly few of tbh. i can see making a list purposefully to revolve around scoring Green Tide that uses a lot of 11 or 15-model Boyz, stormboyz, and kommandoz units in Blood Axes with I've got a plan ladz and I can see using large mobs of stormboyz with zagstruk but otherwise...yeah. Blast hurts. We dont really get anything from being 20x1 as opposed to 10x2, really at all. Overwatch for free is gone. 20+ attack bonus is gone. UGT+old Get Stuck In is gone. It's hard to see how Warpath alone warrants the massive massive downside of large mobs.
also one of the best parts of MSU is you are increasing the chance to benefit from mob rule!! We actually have better morale as an msu army!!! Plus you gain more nobs w pk/bc.
   
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we have vastly better morale as an msu army. After just one test game running a couple of large units, absolutely i am never again going for that - min mobs whenever I can get away with it.

I basically lost 5/10 stormboyz to morale and then only didnt lose 4-5 snagga boyz because of a lucky 1 on a morale roll, and all having 20 snaggaz did for me was cause me to not be able to fight with several of my boyz shoved in to the back.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in gb
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy




United Kingdom

I leaning towards taking alot of elite units over boys like kommandos and Nobz to fill that infantry roll

Nobz

with double choppas has 5 attacks for 18 points Vs 2 boys with a choppa 6 at 18 points

Strength 5 Vs strength 4 of the boy

4+ save Vs 6+ save of the boy

Less vulnerability to blast but more vulnerability to damage 2 weapons

More cost effective when using transports, i.e. 1trukk for 2 units of 5x Nobz

That last one is the real reason for me. Less points spent on transports means they are more points efficient when using trukks.

To take (180 points )20boyz costs 140 points in trukks
To take (180points) 10 nobz costs 70 points in trukks




SMASH  
   
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 the_scotsman wrote:
we have vastly better morale as an msu army. After just one test game running a couple of large units, absolutely i am never again going for that - min mobs whenever I can get away with it.

I basically lost 5/10 stormboyz to morale and then only didnt lose 4-5 snagga boyz because of a lucky 1 on a morale roll, and all having 20 snaggaz did for me was cause me to not be able to fight with several of my boyz shoved in to the back.


If your going over 10+ Or maxing out at 15 stormboys especially w multi squads I think zagstruk is needed he basically limits you to losing 2 stormboys most times to morale. Even then I still think 10 stormboys msu is better. It’s the pks that do the heavy lifting.

For the person asking why kommandos… 5 man squads are dirt cheap 50pt garaunteed 3+ sv screens w +1 wound in cover and for some reason 5pt pks making the ultimate pk spam… To bad they are limited to 3x datasheets because I would fill a whole army of them.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/08/03 14:32:53


 
   
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 kingbbobb wrote:
I leaning towards taking alot of elite units over boys like kommandos and Nobz to fill that infantry roll

Nobz [etc...]



Nobz are a fantastic unit and I don't see many reason for not investing in the Big Choppas every time since S7 (or S8 if Goff) are really sweet for veichles hunting and D2 helps with the omnipresent Space Marines. It sucks that it's still AP-1 but they probably were too busy inventing 4 different "totally-not-a-power-klaw" profiles to update it.

They can really get down to business and I agree with you on them being one of the best "core" infantries at our disposal.


On a side note, what's everyone's opinion on Mega-Dreads? Auto-included Ramming Speed with 16 Wounds and a proper "dreadnought" melee damage output (Deff Dreads D3 feels quite lacking with the current creep, especially against DUTY ETERNAL cousins, despite their 7 attacks). They do look like a lovely DISTRACTION CARNIFEX when paired with other veichles (maybe filled with the Nobz discussed above)
   
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Stormin' Stompa






Zompa wrote:
 kingbbobb wrote:
I leaning towards taking alot of elite units over boys like kommandos and Nobz to fill that infantry roll

Nobz [etc...]



Nobz are a fantastic unit and I don't see many reason for not investing in the Big Choppas every time since S7 (or S8 if Goff) are really sweet for veichles hunting and D2 helps with the omnipresent Space Marines. It sucks that it's still AP-1 but they probably were too busy inventing 4 different "totally-not-a-power-klaw" profiles to update it.

They can really get down to business and I agree with you on them being one of the best "core" infantries at our disposal.


On a side note, what's everyone's opinion on Mega-Dreads? Auto-included Ramming Speed with 16 Wounds and a proper "dreadnought" melee damage output (Deff Dreads D3 feels quite lacking with the current creep, especially against DUTY ETERNAL cousins, despite their 7 attacks). They do look like a lovely DISTRACTION CARNIFEX when paired with other veichles (maybe filled with the Nobz discussed above)


I feel like Mega-Dreads have taken the old role the Gorkanaut took as a deep strike backfield menace now that they're LoW's. New ramshackle helps them a fair bit and they do the big beefy damage we're missing out on in CC now that D4 Killa Klaw warboss no longer exists, he's basically one of the few guys we have besides Ghazzy that can reliably take down guys like DG terminators/deathshroud.
   
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I feel anything fw is going to see massive changes it’s not outside the realm to see squiggoths see massive point drops and only carry snaggas.. and get the increased bite damage from new squigs and become the best fw unit… problem is we don’t know yet.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 13:36:15


 
   
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Nebraska, USA

why on earth would they do that?
they have NEVER done that in the past far as im aware and while it would make "sense" for squiggoths to only transport snaggas they wouldnt bother with such a massive shift unless they released a new model.

Gargsquig is supposedly already OOP and the regular squig is likely not too far off from it.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
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Grimskul wrote:

I feel like Mega-Dreads have taken the old role the Gorkanaut took as a deep strike backfield menace now that they're LoW's. New ramshackle helps them a fair bit and they do the big beefy damage we're missing out on in CC now that D4 Killa Klaw warboss no longer exists, he's basically one of the few guys we have besides Ghazzy that can reliably take down guys like DG terminators/deathshroud.


Yeah. Spending 2CP for their Tellyporta feels kinda steep but at the same time we're saving the Ramming Speed Cost so it evens out even if you reserve two of them.
I was mostly pondering about footslogging a couple of them in my Vanguard Detachment side-by-side with my MANZ and Nobz Trucks. With 16W and popping a force field they should be able to tank a lot of firepower that would otherwise go to the Trukks.
And if they shoot the Trukks they can remove heavy targets while Nobz go for the infantry (assuming they didn't remove 4 trukks and all the guys inside in one volley)

   
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 Vineheart01 wrote:
why on earth would they do that?
they have NEVER done that in the past far as im aware and while it would make "sense" for squiggoths to only transport snaggas they wouldnt bother with such a massive shift unless they released a new model.

Gargsquig is supposedly already OOP and the regular squig is likely not too far off from it.


Because instead of fw teams redoing the rules it’s now under Gw rules team.. and this recent codex saw every unit under Gw rules team meaningfully changed in someway. Also as you said making squiggoths more like the current snaggas makes sense. And ultimately we don’t know.
   
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Been Around the Block




 xttz wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Hot garbage:
Breaking Heads - 2CP This one is also a Former Ability, kill your own models instead of letting morale do it for you. Only time you would ever really use this is if you had a bad morale check and a big unit with 25+ models failed morale, even than a bit of luck with rolling and you would still break even with this.



Gonna jump on this as I think while it's still situational, this stratagem will be more useful than anyone has given it credit for...


Given it costs 2CP it shouldn't have so many downsides but I think Boyz are the wrong target - we have a bunch of multi wound model units that don't have great leadership, and there are several armies that can affect that dramatically. DG terminators that kill a single model can drop leadership by 4 for example, meaning you're looking at a 3+ failed morale on Mega nobz (who can use the strat on themselves). Squighog boys and bikers, being 3 wounds, are similarly really good targets for it. Even the buggies if you're running them in 3s.

It's still too expensive though, it should be 1CP.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






gungo wrote:
Why choose which Waagh take both :p barring any major faq changes, warboss on bike nerfs, or better stuff in the campaign book I’m likely going to play something like this.

Spoiler:
Supreme command-goff 6cp leftover
Ghaz-proper killy

Battalion-goff
Beastboss on squig- Brutal but kunnin, headwompa, big boss, +relic
Makari

Beastsnagga x10- on Killrig
Beastsnagga x10- on Killrig
Gretchin (orrible gitz)-obj secured

3x squigriders +bombsquig
3x squigriders +bombsquig

Killrig-frazzle, spirit of gork
Killrig-roar of gork, squiggly curse

Outrider-deathskulls
Warboss on bike- killaklaw- big boss- warlord trait:Ard as nails

5x kommandos-obj secured (nob w/klaw)
5x kommandos-obj secured (nob w/klaw)

1x scrapjet
1x scrapjet
1x squigbuggy-kustom job nitro squig
1x shockjump
1x shockjump


Yeah, I have been toying with similar lists as well. The only real downside to Thrakka is getting one less unit of trukkboyz, but if you don't care for that to begin with... why not?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
SemperMortis wrote:
Has anyone else really paid attention to how crap our new stratagems are? I want to break them down into a few categories and I'll highlight them if they got worse between editions.


Without going in detail, that's pretty much how it is for all 9th edition codices. Stratagems no longer shape the army, which is a good thing IMO.

Of course, orks had some of the best stratagems in the game, so losing so many of them hurts, but that's how it was going to be from the start. My main gripe with them is that some are unnecessarily limited to beast snaggas and that some cool ones like da kleverest boss and the grot bumper didn't make it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 14:26:18


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We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
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 Jidmah wrote:
gungo wrote:
Why choose which Waagh take both :p barring any major faq changes, warboss on bike nerfs, or better stuff in the campaign book I’m likely going to play something like this.

Spoiler:
Supreme command-goff 6cp leftover
Ghaz-proper killy

Battalion-goff
Beastboss on squig- Brutal but kunnin, headwompa, big boss, +relic
Makari

Beastsnagga x10- on Killrig
Beastsnagga x10- on Killrig
Gretchin (orrible gitz)-obj secured

3x squigriders +bombsquig
3x squigriders +bombsquig

Killrig-frazzle, spirit of gork
Killrig-roar of gork, squiggly curse

Outrider-deathskulls
Warboss on bike- killaklaw- big boss- warlord trait:Ard as nails

5x kommandos-obj secured (nob w/klaw)
5x kommandos-obj secured (nob w/klaw)

1x scrapjet
1x scrapjet
1x squigbuggy-kustom job nitro squig
1x shockjump
1x shockjump


Yeah, I have been toying with similar lists as well. The only real downside to Thrakka is getting one less unit of trukkboyz, but if you don't care for that to begin with... why not?


Here’s my thought on trukk boys…
It makes a tax unit that doesn’t do enough damage and isn’t durable enough on its own playable..
But it requires me spending 70 more points on a trukk that’s essentially just a deployment option with little to no offense just to add some mobility and speed to my 100pt boy tax unit…now I’m spending 170pts just to get 9 boys and 1pk nob without any klan buffs into assault range which I could do for cheaper with stormboys or kommandos that maintain thier own buffs and klan kultures… now I’m not saying trukk boys are bad but it simple makes a tax unit usable and unless you’re going for a greentide type spam list with 3x kommandos, 3x stormboys, 2x-3x trukk boys with multiple warbossses on squig/bike…. They will only provide a place for your opponent to put thier anti infantry weapons.

The downside to thrakka in that list is he’s easy to handle.. you play keep away from him and kill everything else that’s a threat. (Killrigs, buggies, warboss on bike, squig boss, and squig riders). He essentially prevents your opponent from killing your warlord and leaves a nice little bubble for your opponent to avoid or for your opponent to feed chaff units into but he’s slow enough to not be a major threat to winning the mission. If your opponent falls into the trap of throwing enough antitank firearms into him they usually won’t have enough firearms left over to throw into the toughness 6 buggies and squigboys/toughness 8 Killrigs/toughness 7 warbosses w damage reductions. Few armies have the firepower to handle that many high toughness high value targets with additions like ramshackle, ard as nails and thick hide.. with 5/6++ invuls and army wide 6+++ fnp… if they can do that and handle thrakka you got problems regardless… throw in a smoke screen strat to start the game on your buggies and you are living pretty.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 14:45:03


 
   
Made in gb
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United Kingdom

gungo wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
why on earth would they do that?
they have NEVER done that in the past far as im aware and while it would make "sense" for squiggoths to only transport snaggas they wouldnt bother with such a massive shift unless they released a new model.

Gargsquig is supposedly already OOP and the regular squig is likely not too far off from it.


Because instead of fw teams redoing the rules it’s now under Gw rules team.. and this recent codex saw every unit under Gw rules team meaningfully changed in someway. Also as you said making squiggoths more like the current snaggas makes sense. And ultimately we don’t know.


I was wondering that as well. Will they pick up the beast snagga keyword and or squig keyword.

My instinct is no. They don't seem to transfer intermediate keyword s from codex to forgeworld very often.

The old codex nobz on warbikes had the nobz keyword. But the new forgeworld nobz on warbikes didn't.

The kustom stompa doesn't have the stompa keyword preventing it from using stratagems/abilities the normal stompa can.

For the most part I suspect very little in the codex will work on forgeworld models. And that's the way they want it.

SMASH  
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






gungo wrote:
The problem is this..
There is zero incentive to taking large units of boys anymore.
Any groups of 11+ become a blast liability.
The only transports that can hold 12+ amounts of infantry is the battlewagon and huntarig which are both UN optimal as well.
The changes to morale severely dissuade large units..
Troops are almsot a tax this edition so I don’t. See people maxing out snaggaboys or boys either especially when people are using trukk boys as the default choice for troops.
And between the few morale loss mitigating units we have ghazkull (zero attrition modifiers), zagstrukk (half rounded down all loses from morale), etc plus mob rules. We will unlikely lose more then 2 models to morale and attrition when using a 6-7 leadership.

And if you do happen to take a large unit of 15 stormboys that is outside of mob rule and zagstrukk aura that takes a large amount of casualties… or you opponent stacks a bunch of attrition modifiers and you don’t have a character that prevents it.. you always have insane bravery to use which is better. At this point your large unit is already depleted and likely won’t take another round of huge losses without being wiped out to the point it’s not worth spending 2cp to save…

So considering orks current situation I doubt breakin heads will ever be used in any setting without some crazy niche case.


I don't think any of those are a big problem. All of our units are ld 6 or 7 now, so just few casualties to units like warbikers, MANz, koptas or squig riders can easily cause to lose additional expensive multi-wound models. When facing enemies with LD reduction you could even be losing whole buggies to morale. For example DG have a stratagem that give a unit -4 to ld when a terminator kills one of their members, this could easily make you fail your test.
For these situations, breakin' heads is actually very, very good and almost a no-brainer to use. Sadly, it still requires a warboss or unit of nobz to be nearby, so the times when you are actually allowed to use the stratagem when you need it is a way bigger problem than how mediocre it is for single-wound units.

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pepi55 wrote:
How much of a waste would a squad of skorcha nobz with pyro specialist mob in a trukk be?

Im wondering about a squad of 5 nobz + 5 burna boiz in a trukk racing around the battlefield harassing units.

270pts for a relatively fragile unit wreaking havoc
or 290pts for a slightly more durable variant doesnt sound bad?

The pyros can still fire while in the trukk and CC right? or was that only for the trukk weapons?



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Im specifically more interested in making the 5 skorcha nobz work since I have one such squad and it'd be a shame if they were to gather dust on the shelf for an entire edition


Math shows Skorcha is exactly double the damage output of a burna.

So for 55 points you'd be able to get 4 burnas plus a spannas versus 56 points for two nobz with Skorchas. You'd be better off taking only one unit and maxing out the benefit from pyromaniacs.

Skorchas provide some benefit as far as concentration of firepower in a transport, but burnas get spannas that have big Shootas and can also repair the transport.

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