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At first, I was excited by the Primaris, and thought that I might make a return to GW's fold by playing them--thus avoiding the problem which besets me now:

I love the look and the fluff for Deathwatch and Grey Knights a lot more than Primaris marines and even other old marines. However, is it GW's plan to move all marines into the new Primaris scale, and to phase out old ones? How weird would the transition look to have Grey Knights and Deathwatch fighting alongside and against "basic" marines who are an entire different scale?

I'm fairly confident that people will be playing regular Marines for a long while yet. Primaris are an addition, not yet a replacement, and regular Marines do bring a lot more flexibility to the table.

As soneone who saw both on the table, they looks horrible next to each other. They are like from different wargames and regular marines are uglier smaller version of the new one (who has exact same design, but have much more real proportions). It is better to not mix primaris and regular marines in one army, but then you opponent may bring them.

Overall they will replace current range with primaris, but not in the nearest years. They are not design to be in mix with current small ones, they are plain replacement.

I recall reading a GW statement, saying Primaris were an add on. I'd be astonished if regular marines disappeared, but in store, I'd also expect the new and shinies to be more prominent, until the next new shiny.

I field "oop" models on a regular basis, using the last codex rules available. I've never had an issue. I also never tournament play.

Buy the models you LIKE: you'll get most value out of them.

Yes. Regular Astartes are actually quite competitive still compared to their primaris bretheren. A tactical squad is much more flexible than intercessors and has more mobility options. Not to mention dedicated assault units. They also have much more options and variability compared to Primaris marines. As another poster said in their current form Primaris marines seem to be intended to compliment existing marine armies rather than outright replace them.

Well, Grey Knight don't even have any Primaris units, so you're safe for a while.

I hate to be the fear monger here, but I believe they will begin to phase out the old marine kits sooner than most people think. Speaking for myself, I'm about half way through a Dark Angels army, so I intend to stick with it until either I'm finished or Games Workshop call it a day. Were I in a position to start a brand new army, I'd go 100% primaris all the way. The only thing I won't consider under any circumstances is a mix & match of different scales. I've looked at the models next to each other & it just looks silly.

[edit]
Although, if you're going Deathwatch, then I'd say you're very safe, as their entire range is only about a year old, I think.

I too think Old Marines are going to be phased out soon and relegated to "legacy" status ala Index entries.

Even if kits get phased out sooner than people think, the rules will likely be around for a long time. I think the main question to ask: do you want new units and characters?

If you look at the marine forces/models/units now and you like them - go nuts. However, be warned there is a very good chance you will not ever see new models/units/characters based on the older style marines. That being said, you can always use Primaris stuff in the same force - so you're not really hindering yourself (i.e. if you get bored or get swayed over to Primaris it's not a big deal).

To expand on my previous post, I think the best thing to do right now (assuming you are starting a new army, not coming back after the idiocy of 7th) is to use Primaris Models as Counts-As True Scale Tacticals or w/e you want. 99% of opponents will find it awesome (since it's usually a downside), and so long as you don't need to do "tournaments" which you won't be using Standard Marines anyway it won't be a problem.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
I too think Old Marines are going to be phased out soon and relegated to "legacy" status ala Index entries.

They just brought out a Codex with them in? So at worst they will not get a new Codex before everyone else might get one.

Supporting two ranges of marines with new models is a horrible idea - wating for anything thats not a Marine to be produced is bad enough already. All the options are already made - there is no real need to make new Small Marine Models when we have most of the other factions still screaming for plastic models.

My advice is, if you like the models from the existing range, buy em before they get discontinued. If primaris marines are gonna replace normal space marines, they're just gonna take over the rules (well sort of, Intercessors will probably merge closer to a tactical squad) so at some point it will be acceptable to use normal marines as "oldschool primaris marines" just like those derpy marines from 2nd and 3rd edition are usable as normal marines, just smaller.

I'm certain they'll be phased out. GW's approach to their company in the past failed them with trademarks. Now everything is being marketed as very, very protected by law. Primaris Marine models are like the new updated kits and sizes that will invalidate all those old sellers and copycats from using their ForgeryWorld casts.

Models update their kits regularly already and if you think GW's goal here is to break away from the past then what the Primaris marine represents is the continuation of that approach. We'll likely be getting all new updated models with new names for just about everything as they replace the old with the new. Already we're starting to see more codex releases and more new models than ever before and their stocks are soaring with confidence from the investors.

 Bloviator wrote:
At first, I was excited by the Primaris, and thought that I might make a return to GW's fold by playing them--thus avoiding the problem which besets me now:

I love the look and the fluff for Deathwatch and Grey Knights a lot more than Primaris marines and even other old marines.

The Deatwatch now has access to most of the Primaris stuff, so you could do Primaris Deatwatch. Deatwatch arms and shoulder pads fit on the Primaris models just fine.

Hmm. Well, people who want a Holy Roman collection rather than Asgardian Angels can still buy Empire figures, who seem to get replenished when out of stock...

....Deathwatch are a good choice for a non-Primaris collection tbh. What with their recruitment being of long-standing existing Marines, many of whom won't have been optimised. In fact they don't even have Primaris as of yet

As safe as anything is. SMs and GKs have literally just received new codexes. I would assume they will be in play for some time.

It will never not be safe. They released the codex and they're still in there. We'll probably just see more diversity of units/gear for Primaris but your stock Astartes aren't going anywhere.

The weird thing is GW phased out some of the Empire collection but not others. I wanted to collect some Empire Knights only to find that they've been exorcised from the range along with bretonnians, which is weird considering every other mounted troops from every other faction remained untouched.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
The weird thing is GW phased out some of the Empire collection but not others. I wanted to collect some Empire Knights only to find that they've been exorcised from the range along with bretonnians, which is weird considering every other mounted troops from every other faction remained untouched.

The knights were way older than other Empire stuff.

They still kept the Saurus Knights (which are almost as old if I recall). Although now that I think about it the Knightly Orders was probably phased out because they looked too generic.

They also looked daft compared to the larger and more impressive Outriders/Pistoliers....

Well lets put it this way. You wont really ever go away, but your never going to get new models. Marines are much better then Primaras marines because of their flexibility. This edition is about Multiple Small Units over big killy things.

Thinking of playing Grey Knights? I love them. We just got a codex - here's the details on that.

Grey Knights just received a codex, and *technically* we get access to a couple units we didn't before - with the Grey Knights keyword - in the Stormtalon/Hawk, and Chaplain.

It seems like the whole point behind taking a chaplain is to get the charge reroll after deep strike, but that's not something i bank on in my armies anymore. People adapted, it is rarely fruitful in my opinion.

As for the other flyers - they could receive radius buffs from our grand masters, heroes, et al, but that's about the only difference with them being added to the codex. Nothing of note - no psychic pilots, or anything like that.

We did get a Nemsis Grand Master Dreadknight, which could be useful depending on its cost. But it's still a T6, 12W model. Depending on how you use it, it could make for an interesting Warlord. There are some solid traits, and since Draigo and others are forced to pick the garbage traits now, this option is slightly more attractive.

Other than that, we're largely unchanged except for a few price hikes for our units. Weirdly, despite being one of the lowest performing armies in the tournament circuits, we saw prices of units go UP. Our terminators cost more, most likely because they got objective secured.

The main draw really of the codex is the new stratagems, and the psychic powers. Our stratagems are very powerful. For instance - we can use 3 dice and pick the two highest when taking a psychic test, or denying a power, we can give a single unit +1strength and -AP on shooting attacks with boltgun weaponry or psi/psy weaponry. There's a big difference between a squad of Purgators shooting 24x Str4 Ap0 D3 damage shots, versus 24x Str5 Ap-1 D3 damage shots. The new psychic powers are basically lifted from 7th an updated. Astral Aim = Phase Form Geokinesis; Vortex of Doom = Vortex of Doom from Librarius(?), with some changes; and Sanctuary = +1 invuln (i forget if this was sanctic). All in all, not bad, we got some good stuff there. One really cool thing is if you have a detachment of pure GK you get a +1 to manifest AND deny of psychic powers for your entire detachment.

At the end of the day we did get a new codex which fills some holes and gives us an incentive to try and get command points. I don't see the core problems of the army being addressed with this release. I am concerned that we'll fall even further behind when other codices come out, for the already very powerful factions.

But in reality our army is really Codex: Storm Raven right now. Awesome models, cool fluff. Just, pick up a raven, and maybe a land raider.

How OP/undercosted are the new Marines, compared to old?
I haven't looked at them at all yet, but I expect GW to knock a point or two of to sell more of them.

 Skinnereal wrote:
How OP/undercosted are the new Marines, compared to old?
I haven't looked at them at all yet, but I expect GW to knock a point or two of to sell more of them.

Your base primaris troop is effectively marine statline, with 1 extra wound, 1 extra close combat attack, and a strength 4, ap-1, 1 damage boltgun. They cost 7 more than a base marine, and cannot take any wargear options.

 More Dakka wrote:
It will never not be safe. They released the codex and they're still in there. We'll probably just see more diversity of units/gear for Primaris but your stock Astartes aren't going anywhere.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/693254.page

GW has a knack for erasing things from existence.

Silly Arkaine, GW never erases things. They never existed. Now would you please follow this nice Inquisitor and his Chirurgeon? They would like a word with you...

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Silly Arkaine, GW never erases things. They never existed. Now would you please follow this nice Inquisitor and his Chirurgeon? They would like a word with you...

Rocks are NOT free. Please sit in the BLUE chair.

I think it will be safe for quite a while. I mean as far as I know you're still allowed to use even the old metal termies even though they've been OOP for ages. While I do think the Primaris will eventually replace the old marines, I do NOT think this is going to happen quickly. We're talking years before it happens imo.

 Bloviator wrote:
At first, I was excited by the Primaris, and thought that I might make a return to GW's fold by playing them--thus avoiding the problem which besets me now:

I love the look and the fluff for Deathwatch and Grey Knights a lot more than Primaris marines and even other old marines. However, is it GW's plan to move all marines into the new Primaris scale, and to phase out old ones? How weird would the transition look to have Grey Knights and Deathwatch fighting alongside and against "basic" marines who are an entire different scale?

GW as of now has stated that they have no plans to do this. And even if they do A) all the models will be valid forever and B) it won't happen for years.


Do what you want.