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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






The first Inceptors with Assault Bolters were 75 points per model, too costly to fit within their big role. Chapter Approved will drop their cost again to 45 points per model. Is this finally cheap enough to compete with similar units?

The obvious comparison is a Space Marine bike. The base model is the same cost and provides the same Wounds, Toughness, and Attacks. While Inceptors move 4" slower, they gain Deep Strike and the crucial Fly keyword.

Each Inceptor spends nearly half its total cost on Assault Bolters, and much more on Plasma Exterminators. Is this too much risk for a 2 Wound model? Inceptors need protection and to skirmish at their 18" range.

Which chapter makes the best use of Inceptors? The -1 to hit Raven Guard may be most often useful, although the Imperial Fist's Bolter Drill stratagem is a big buff to Assault Bolters.

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Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




I think the answer is yes, but that they still aren't a no-brainer. It does depend a lot on your CTs.

Ravenguard are probably the army that is least likely to need inceptors, I think. They don't need deep strikers because they have SFTS. They don't really want 18" range stuff because it's not good at using their CT, which requires distance. They don't need plasma because RG assault hellblasters are already so fantastic - and a much better fit with their CTs. SFTS on aggressors gives far more firepower than deep striking in assault bolter guys.

I think you're right about imperial fists and assault bolters. These do work very nicely together, especially with deep strike. You get a unit that's really good at killing enemy infantry, especially if they are hiding in cover towards the back of the board. A good deep striking unit will add a lot of utility to an imperial fist army too. I think they'd be good for a lot of other chapters too.

The plasma guys are tricky because they are so expensive and, firing an average of 4 shots each, so likely to blow themselves up if overcharging. The obvious army to use them is probably ultramarines, thanks to their stratagem that lets you reroll 1s. Anyone else needs to either keep them near a captain somehow (and one with deep strike will cost you a lot) or just accept that they are a one-shot weapon.

Hellblasters exist and are very good, so a marine army doesn't really need another source of plasma. More dakka is always welcome though. So I think that overall the dakka inceptors are likely to appear in quite a lot of lists - and I might get some myself - but the plasma ones are harder to justify.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/26 09:17:38


 
   
Made in de
Death-Dealing Devastator





They are more viable now, but not a unit that can be taken anywhere. My biggest question is, why take even more anti-infantry for an army that struggles to field sufficient anti-tank?

I can see them work with more deep striking stuff like a Chapter Master.
   
Made in de
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot




Germany

Mandragola wrote:
SFTS on aggressors gives far more firepower than deep striking in assault bolter guys.


SFTS works before the game begins. If you dont have first turn, your SFTS unit can be wiped out before it can do anything. Deep striking allows the unit to do something because its done in your turn.

Anyway, 45 pts. for inceptors seem about right. Dont forget they can use plasma as well, which also got a point reduction, its now 59 per model. Which sounds even better than the 45 for the bolters.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/26 11:25:06


 
   
Made in ru
Waaagh! Ork Warboss






The bumblebees have been ok even before the point drop. Now they're really good. No reason to not use them in almost any marine army.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/27 08:09:54


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 koooaei wrote:
The bumblebees have been ok even before the point drop. Now they're really good. No reason to not use them in almost any marine army.


I found them pretty crappy for their points (ESPECIALLY the plasma variant). They put out too little damage and were not durable at all really. I would take a cheaper and harder hitting hellblaster squad any day of the week without a doubt. The one niche the inceptors had was anti-hoard, but that was very easy to find elsewhere in the Imperium range, space marine range and even just Primaris range. With a 45 point drop I can see the inceptors being worth something now, but I am not so certain they will be an auto take. They are still pretty squishy and compete with the now even cheaper aggressor for anti hoard. I will for sure though be trying them out. The plasma variant I think will still be bad because they fire so many shots that they will blow themselves up pretty easily if you overcharge and if you do not overcharge their firepower is not that great relative to their cost and durability. If I want plasma I will go back to the well for the hellblasters.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/27 08:50:03


 
   
Made in us
Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot





In primaris-only lists they'll definitely have a place harassing backline enemies.With Deep Strike they're really the only thing with any reach, and at 45pts cheap enough to be expendable.
   
Made in de
Death-Dealing Devastator





I'd still land in cover and bully weaker infantry units. They are not durable enough for prolonged engagements. Considering how Marines are undermanned as it is, losing more than necessary is not good.
   
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Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot




Germany

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
The bumblebees have been ok even before the point drop. Now they're really good. No reason to not use them in almost any marine army.


I found them pretty crappy for their points (ESPECIALLY the plasma variant). They put out too little damage and were not durable at all really. I would take a cheaper and harder hitting hellblaster squad any day of the week without a doubt. The one niche the inceptors had was anti-hoard, but that was very easy to find elsewhere in the Imperium range, space marine range and even just Primaris range. With a 45 point drop I can see the inceptors being worth something now, but I am not so certain they will be an auto take. They are still pretty squishy and compete with the now even cheaper aggressor for anti hoard. I will for sure though be trying them out. The plasma variant I think will still be bad because they fire so many shots that they will blow themselves up pretty easily if you overcharge and if you do not overcharge their firepower is not that great relative to their cost and durability. If I want plasma I will go back to the well for the hellblasters.


Hellblasters cant deepstrike. As for overcharging plasma they need a captain to reroll 1s, who can also take a JP.
   
Made in nl
Speedy Swiftclaw Biker




I can definitely see them having a use in my Space Wolves army. Drop them in to kill screening units so my dreads and Wulfen can march in to chop up the valuable stuff.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/27 10:07:01


 
   
Made in ch
Legendary Dogfighter





RNAS Rockall

As a guard player with 9 of them still on the sprue (not for long!):
They are only 5 points per average wound more than Heavy Bolter HWT - factoring in 'you can't shoot me until I say so' and Fly, these things could become the star players in the codex.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/27 10:18:34


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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




If they had a 2+ Armor save then they'd be worth it, but Marines are already strapped for models and if you're not fighting a horde army you'll be fighting one that can take out T4 or 5 3+ Save units with little difficulty.

Wish Marines had jump pack units that could take stormbolters.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




UK

They might work well with Blood Angels who are likely to be fielding other JP units. +1 to Wound in CC could be handy if you want to assault weak units to hide them in CC and further harass your opponent's shooting.

One of the big drawbacks of BAs is that combos like a Lemartes DC Bomb are vulnerable to bubble wrap. If your Inceptors strike on Turn 1, they can help to clear a landing zone for the DC to drop on Turn 2.

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Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




p5freak wrote:
Mandragola wrote:
SFTS on aggressors gives far more firepower than deep striking in assault bolter guys.


SFTS works before the game begins. If you dont have first turn, your SFTS unit can be wiped out before it can do anything. Deep striking allows the unit to do something because its done in your turn.

Only if, knowing that you're going second and with the freedom to set them up anywhere, you deploy your aggressors somewhere silly.

The best thing about SFTS is that you set them up after knowing who's going first, including after seize initiative rolls. Going first? Set them up to nuke something. Going second? Set them up as a second line defence, or as a buffer unit with an awesome auspex scan shot if anyone feels like deep striking near them.
   
Made in us
Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper




McCragge

I think we definitely see them now.

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

"For a second I forgot I was in Dakka Dakka, where things are only super garbage or totally OP... no middle ground.” 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Steelcity

 raverrn wrote:
In primaris-only lists they'll definitely have a place harassing backline enemies.With Deep Strike they're really the only thing with any reach, and at 45pts cheap enough to be expendable.


In a primaris-only list tho you don't have to worry about "competing" since you've already accepted the fact that your army won't be competitive! I think they could be okay with Dante yet I still feel that for BA I rather just take plasma vets.

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Made in us
Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper




McCragge

Primaris are really good. You just have to know how to use them.

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

"For a second I forgot I was in Dakka Dakka, where things are only super garbage or totally OP... no middle ground.” 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




 Primark G wrote:
Primaris are really good. You just have to know how to use them.


I have to disagree there. I've always beaten them badly with index BA. They have no firepower to speak of and multiple damage weapons like autocannons rip them to shreds. They need a LOT of work. There is no right way to play them when they threaten no one in any phase of the game.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/30 03:33:27


 
   
Made in us
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine





Huntsville, Texas

 Primark G wrote:
Primaris are really good. You just have to know how to use them.


...and pray your opponent doesn't have a lot of Plasma in their army (who doesn't nowadays), have Autocannons... Or anything at AP -2/-3 that can do more than one damage.

I really don't think they are that good overall. It's really just the Hellblasters who don't seem to be mediocre at best.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Yeah, an all Primaris army is kind of like a Deathwing army...Too few models, not enough firepower, not enough survivability.
   
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Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper




McCragge

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
 Primark G wrote:
Primaris are really good. You just have to know how to use them.


...and pray your opponent doesn't have a lot of Plasma in their army (who doesn't nowadays), have Autocannons... Or anything at AP -2/-3 that can do more than one damage.

I really don't think they are that good overall. It's really just the Hellblasters who don't seem to be mediocre at best.


Mathammer at its finest.

There’s lots of multi wound units that are popular and see a lot of play.

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

"For a second I forgot I was in Dakka Dakka, where things are only super garbage or totally OP... no middle ground.” 
   
Made in us
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





Like what, exactly? Terminators have largely fallen out of use in the advent of Screenhammer. Obliterators would count for this discussion as a 3 wound model but if Primaris Marines could rely on having a -2 to hit (or having a -1 to hit and getting to shoot twice) all the time they'd be a lot better, too.
   
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McCragge

Everything would benefit from -2 to hit. Ogryns?

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

"For a second I forgot I was in Dakka Dakka, where things are only super garbage or totally OP... no middle ground.” 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




Intercessors are a bit more reasonable now at 91pts - decent in a lot of ways, and sfts on one unit makes it a pain to shift from a flank/building/objective. I quite like them now they're a bit cheaper.

Inceptors are great. 135pts, always in cover so T5/ 2+ with great potential as horde-sweepers and roadbumps. Really suit RG tactics, funnily enough, as they can manage range so well, and -1 makes them a pain to put down.

Hellblasters are a straight up great unit.

Aggressors are niche, but they are superb in that niche!

Powerfist Captain and LT are not to be sniffed at in CC.

Then liberally season with Dreads, and you have a good army. Not OP, not meta-bending: just good. I like em, they're a fun army to play, and they _feel_ like marines.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/01 15:07:04


 
   
Made in de
Death-Dealing Devastator





grouchoben wrote:
Intercessors are a bit more reasonable now at 91pts - decent in a lot of ways, and sfts on one unit makes it a pain to shift from a flank/bilding/objective. I quite like them now they're a bit cheaper.

Inceptors are great. 135pts, always in cover so T5/ 2+ with great potential as horde-sweepers and roadbumps. Really suit RG tactics, funnily enough, as they can manage range so well, and -1 makes them a pain to put down.

Hellblasters are a stright up great unit.

Aggressors are niche, but they are superb in that niche!

Powerfist Captain and LT are not to be sniffed at in CC.

Then liberally season with Dreads, and you have a good army. Not OP, not meta-beding: just good. I like em, they're a fun army to play, and they _feel_ like marines.


QFT.
   
Made in us
Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper




McCragge

Heck yeah that is what I am talking about!

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

"For a second I forgot I was in Dakka Dakka, where things are only super garbage or totally OP... no middle ground.” 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Hanford, California, also known as the Eye of Terror

grouchoben wrote:
Intercessors are a bit more reasonable now at 91pts - decent in a lot of ways, and sfts on one unit makes it a pain to shift from a flank/bilding/objective. I quite like them now they're a bit cheaper.

Inceptors are great. 135pts, always in cover so T5/ 2+ with great potential as horde-sweepers and roadbumps. Really suit RG tactics, funnily enough, as they can manage range so well, and -1 makes them a pain to put down.

Hellblasters are a stright up great unit.

Aggressors are niche, but they are superb in that niche!

Powerfist Captain and LT are not to be sniffed at in CC.

Then liberally season with Dreads, and you have a good army. Not OP, not meta-beding: just good. I like em, they're a fun army to play, and they _feel_ like marines.


I have found Repulsors to be quite obscene in the Dakka configuration, they take a lot of hits and dish out an outrageous amount of shots. Combine that with Predator and Whirlwind suppport and you will bury your opponent in shots!

As for Inceptors, I really want to try them now and mix them with Reivers. I think having both come out at the same time will really work well with target priorities and let you tie up enemy support units, plus Inceptors can fly over whatever the Reivers have assaulted.

I think one of the gems of the Inceptors rules is Fly. You can assault in, cause a mortal wound or 2, get a few attacks in, then bounce off, disengage, and shoot something else entirely. If you get tied up in their screen, just disengage out of the screen and fly into their lines.

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The Eternity Gate

Problem I have with Inceptors is that even with the cost reduction I'm always left wondering why I wouldn't just bring terminators which do much the same job and have considerably more survivability.

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Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Repulsors are terrible tanks for their insane cost. The lack of 2+ armor makes them so squishy.
   
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Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper




McCragge

I use Tigirius to make it T9 and -1 to hit.

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

"For a second I forgot I was in Dakka Dakka, where things are only super garbage or totally OP... no middle ground.” 
   
 
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