Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Artemia-Pattern-Hellhound

So while I've been waiting ages for the FLGS to get a regular Hellhound in stock, I've been poking around on Forgeworld. I found the above to be pretty neat looking (better nozzle than the regular pattern IMO), and gave the rules a check.

Basically, it's a Hellhound that trades 2d6 flat for 2d6 discard lowest. So I trade probably 7 for probably 6 hits, trade an absolute floor of 2 for 1, and an absolute ceiling of 12 for 6. I also seem to lose out on things from the Vehicle Equipment List, like track guards and pintle mounts.

For this, I save 20 points. This isn't huge, but it does seem significant enough for me to think about it - that's 20 points more upgrades elsewhere.

Thoughts?

Take a look at one very important thing: damage 2, vs. damage 1 for the standard Hellhound. Against multi-wound models where D2 is relevant you're out-damaging the standard Hellhound, with the obvious drawback of being weaker against single-wound models.

 Infantryman wrote:
This: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Artemia-Pattern-Hellhound

So while I've been waiting ages for the FLGS to get a regular Hellhound in stock, I've been poking around on Forgeworld. I found the above to be pretty neat looking (better nozzle than the regular pattern IMO), and gave the rules a check.

Basically, it's a Hellhound that trades 2d6 flat for 2d6 discard lowest. So I trade probably 7 for probably 6 hits, trade an absolute floor of 2 for 1, and an absolute ceiling of 12 for 6. I also seem to lose out on things from the Vehicle Equipment List, like track guards and pintle mounts.

For this, I save 20 points. This isn't huge, but it does seem significant enough for me to think about it - that's 20 points more upgrades elsewhere.

Thoughts?

Average hits for artemia is 4.5. Not that probably 6 hits(30% or so actually). And anything with 2 wounds is going to hate that. W3 models less so, 4W again goes "ugh" etc.

So.. the major differences between the Artemia pattern I've outlined below:

Artemia Pattern
-2d6 take the highest for shots (averaging 4.47 shots)
-2 damage per shot
-explodes for d6 mortal wounds on a 4+

Regular Hellhound
-straight 2d6 for shots (averaging 7 shots)
-1 damage per shot
-explodes for d3 mortal wounds on a 4+

My take:
The Artemia has a better average wound output against 2W or more models because it does 2 damage per shot and gets to pick the highest of 2 dice for damage. In addition, this also makes it an excellent candidate for the Catachan regimental bonus, as it would essentially make the roll for the number of shots 3d6 take the highest (because you would roll 2d6 and reroll the lower one since you weren't going to take it anyways). In addition, The nature of hellhounds is they want to get close, which makes the Artemia's explosion on a 4+ important because it does a d6 mortal wounds instead of a d3. There's nothing like driving your hellhound straight into enemy lines and daring him to destroy it and risk taking a d6 mortal wounds on every unit within a 6" radius. For EXTRA lulz, drive it up to a squad of expensive like terminators or something, shoot them and charge them with the tank. Per the rules his models MUST attack in melee, or if they're ranged anti-tank units they'll try to kill the hellhound in overwatch, and when they destroy the tank, you can use a command point reroll to reroll the explosion dice (either the 4+ to decide if it blows up, or the number of mortal wounds).

On average, one round of shooting from a Catachan Artemia pattern hellhound armed with a flamer and inferno cannon will see 3 terminators dead, and (with rerolls from command pt) about 2.5-3 mortal wounds dealt to every unit within 6 inches when the Artemia pattern dies in the melee. It will make its points back in 1 turn like that.

Both tanks are great IMO though, as they're excellent durable distractions your opponent has to deal with and don't want running amuck.

Also the artemia turret looks awesome! I used one on a normal chimera and I think it looks much better as a small form automated turret than the normal one.

Nothing much stopping you from just proxing it pug

it looks like a hellhound and probably smells like one to.

I would guess that the Artemia's point cost is a bit of a mistake, but it's not a huge one and there's no reason to think it will be updated soon.

It does hellhound things, with the slight switch from excelling most against single wound infantry to excelling against multi-wound models.

I think hellhounds are great, and being cheaper and just as good as a fireship, the Artemia rocks.

does this one explode on a 4+? if so it's probably better because it's cheaper for suicide mission.

 chrispy1991 wrote:
So.. the major differences between the Artemia pattern I've outlined below:

Artemia Pattern
-2d6 take the highest for shots (averaging 4.47 shots)
-2 damage per shot
-explodes for d6 mortal wounds on a 4+

Regular Hellhound
-straight 2d6 for shots (averaging 7 shots)
-1 damage per shot
-explodes for d3 mortal wounds on a 4+

My take:
The Artemia has a better average wound output against 2W or more models because it does 2 damage per shot and gets to pick the highest of 2 dice for damage. In addition, this also makes it an excellent candidate for the Catachan regimental bonus, as it would essentially make the roll for the number of shots 3d6 take the highest (because you would roll 2d6 and reroll the lower one since you weren't going to take it anyways). In addition, The nature of hellhounds is they want to get close, which makes the Artemia's explosion on a 4+ important because it does a d6 mortal wounds instead of a d3. There's nothing like driving your hellhound straight into enemy lines and daring him to destroy it and risk taking a d6 mortal wounds on every unit within a 6" radius. For EXTRA lulz, drive it up to a squad of expensive like terminators or something, shoot them and charge them with the tank. Per the rules his models MUST attack in melee, or if they're ranged anti-tank units they'll try to kill the hellhound in overwatch, and when they destroy the tank, you can use a command point reroll to reroll the explosion dice (either the 4+ to decide if it blows up, or the number of mortal wounds).

On average, one round of shooting from a Catachan Artemia pattern hellhound armed with a flamer and inferno cannon will see 3 terminators dead, and (with rerolls from command pt) about 2.5-3 mortal wounds dealt to every unit within 6 inches when the Artemia pattern dies in the melee. It will make its points back in 1 turn like that.

Both tanks are great IMO though, as they're excellent durable distractions your opponent has to deal with and don't want running amuck.

Looks like I missed details - that's what I get for thinking about this at 4:30 in the morning

Overall it sounds like it's a strong choice, so I will add it to the next Forge World order I do. I plan to run one or the other at 1.5k, so having both would be pretty nice anyways...when the FLGS can actually GET a regular one, anyways.

Thank you all for the analysis - it's always good to hear when FW has a sculpt that's both cool AND viable.

Even against 1w models the Artemia is still better... when the models has a feel no pain save. Basically, the models have to re-roll successful rolls.