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Made in gb
Ragin' Ork Dreadnought





Back in Ye Olde Tymes, Grenades were often needed to be able to do anything to walkers at all. That's why you could use a whole unit making single Krak Grenade rounds in combat.

With everything wounding on a 6 now though, grenades are worse than useless in the vast majority of cases. If you could use grenades in CC, still limited to one per unit, do you think it would be a bit better?

   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Upstate, New York

I think that would be reasonable. Make melta bombs a bit more worth it as well. They need the help.

Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 12.5K+ Slowly growing 2Kish
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Made in gb
Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought





Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!

What about allowing whole units to throw nades in cc but if the unit doesn't hit the target in cc the nade is counted as being fumbled and causes damage to the attacking unit? Would make for some interesting suicide units.

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Made in es
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought




Vigo. Spain.

I find grenades plenty of usefull both for overwatch or just normal shooting.

But I'll like for being able to thrown grenades in CC. But if you roll a 1, you explode for being a kamikaze. Or the model that was trying to use the grenade takes the hit, to not punish elite models so much.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Freaky Flayed One




Sentient Void

I would like to see these suicide lunge mines for anti-vehicle tech:


"Even with living metal I am checking for teeth in all the wrong places before dipping into one of those."
-Anrakyr the Traveler sizing up a unit of Daemonettes 
   
Made in nz
Regular Dakkanaut




Would not be against the idea of grenades in CC. Would actually make them somewhat have a purpose (If a very small niche purpose)
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I'd be fine with this for krak and meltabombs (and haywire grenades if they come back at some point), but lobbing frag grenades into a confused melee seems a bit wonky.

Rather than treating them like pistols, why not make meltabombs, krak, and similar melee weapons again? It would give your sargeants (and my fire dragons) a reason to have both a meltagun and a meltabomb.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




Makes sense to me, if you assume CC isn't just fisticuffs but actually represents very close quarters fighting then grenades and pistols make perfect sense
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Maryland, USA

Tokhuah wrote:I would like to see these suicide lunge mines for anti-vehicle tech:



I'd thought about that recently(ish). Tooling around in some fluff for my army I had references to pikes being used in rebellion, and thought it would be funny to have what are basically Rough Rider lances for infantry...

leopard wrote:Makes sense to me, if you assume CC isn't just fisticuffs but actually represents very close quarters fighting then grenades and pistols make perfect sense


So why on earth is my Sergeant using his ST for wounding instead of the ST of the Bolter he's carrying, then?

Out-of-the-loop from November 2010 - November 2017 so please excuse my ignorance!
pismakron wrote:

Another way would be to simply slide the landraider sideways like a big slowed hovercraft full of eels.
 necrontyrOG wrote:
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Made in us
Nasty Nob





Denver, Colorado

 Tokhuah wrote:
I would like to see these suicide lunge mines for anti-vehicle tech:



They're called tankhammers. And they're really bad.
 Filename 150px-Tank_Hammer.png [Disk] Download
 Description
 File size 56 Kbytes


"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.". Words to live by, especially for ork players waiting for a new codex.  
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





So why on earth is my Sergeant using his ST for wounding instead of the ST of the Bolter he's carrying, then?


Likely because its not all ranged combat and the physical strength of the combatants does matter up close, also a belter isn't suited for combat that close, its not nimble enough (i.e. unable to track targets at that range while also holding something for those who get too close)

We could do with an SMG type weapon, pistol range, counting as a pistol but higher rate of fire - give it a <TRACER> rule so the officer carrying it can point at a unit further out and fire at them, but not harm them - however if he hits then give his squad +1 to hit or something.
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob





Denver, Colorado

 Tokhuah wrote:
I would like to see these suicide lunge mines for anti-vehicle tech:



They're called tankhammers. And they're really bad. :(


[

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/01/03 21:37:19


"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.". Words to live by, especially for ork players waiting for a new codex.  
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain






 Infantryman wrote:
Tokhuah wrote:I would like to see these suicide lunge mines for anti-vehicle tech:



I'd thought about that recently(ish). Tooling around in some fluff for my army I had references to pikes being used in rebellion, and thought it would be funny to have what are basically Rough Rider lances for infantry...

leopard wrote:Makes sense to me, if you assume CC isn't just fisticuffs but actually represents very close quarters fighting then grenades and pistols make perfect sense


So why on earth is my Sergeant using his ST for wounding instead of the ST of the Bolter he's carrying, then?


I think a melta lance would be super cool.

it would be simple to just let people use grenades against vehicles and monsters in CC.

as for any other situation though i dont think throwing grenades in what is supposed to be a swirling mess of blades and dudes is a good idea. knowing you are about to frag a bunch of your own guys.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in us
Skilled SDF-1 Pin-Point Barrier Jockey





Mississippi

 Tokhuah wrote:
I would like to see these suicide lunge mines for anti-vehicle tech:



Wouldn’t this essentially be the explosive-tipped lances from Rough Riders?

Frag grenades in melee combat with its “blast radius” seems like a bad idea. On the other hand, stuffing a krak grenade down a carnifexes mouth or lobbing it into a tank turret’s hatch seems very cinematic and 40K. Perhaps a comprimise that allows grenades (defensive and offensive) to be lobbed as part of a charge? (Defensive grenades being used by the defender as a part of overwatch?j

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




Just let the Krak Grenade and melta bomb have a melee profile but that profile can only be used against Vehicles Monsters, and only one per unit per fighting phase. Like what it was in previous editions. and it would be good.
It would also let Marines and CSM become better than now.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/05 06:11:06


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Krak and melta grenades should have had a melee profile and I honestly think it was just lazy to not have them in.

Feels like they took them away just to speed the game up and that's lame.

Proposed rule was give them the following melee profile:

Krak grenade - S6, -2 Sv, D3 dmg. Always hits on a 4+ and if used can only have 1 attack.
Melta bomb - S8, -4 Sv, 2D6 pick the highest dmg. Always hits on a 4+ and if used can only have 1 attack.

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Made in gb
Bounding Dark Angels Assault Marine






 BaconCatBug wrote:
Back in Ye Olde Tymes, Grenades were often needed to be able to do anything to walkers at all. That's why you could use a whole unit making single Krak Grenade rounds in combat.

Firstly, iirc the whole unit wasn't supposed to be able to use krak grenades, only one model per unit like it is now (it was FAQ'd I think). Second, it is no longer impossible to wound something; everyone can wound on 6's, and everyone can fall back from combat at any time without penalty, so if you're stuck fighting a walker, just fall back and let something else take over instead. Third, walkers sucked last edition anyway.

However, to the question at hand… I wouldn't mind krak grenades, melta bombs and similar having melee profiles that can only be used to make a single attack per unit, but I wouldn't make this a general grenade rule as throwing frag grenades in combat for example doesn't seem like a good idea.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/05 11:44:23


   
Made in ru
Horrific Howling Banshee




Moscow

Yeah, allow at least 1 grenade per fight phase against vehicles & monsters. It makes little sense in the fight phase against vehicles when units armed with loads of grenades, demolitions packs or melta bombs just hit with their base S.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/06 10:44:26


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Boy I sure miss the day when my marines could charge a wave serpent and krak grenade its rear armor...................

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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Maybe make using greanades a little more risky in melee?

A hit roll of a '1' causes damage to the user to represent it getting dropped or being too close to the blast
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol






I think most folk would prefer to grow a grenade before dashing to within arms reach, which the rules already allow.

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Made in se
Screamin' Stormboy




Sweden

 JohnnyHell wrote:
I think most folk would prefer to grow a grenade before dashing to within arms reach, which the rules already allow.


I would prefer melta bombs and krak grenades to have an additional melee option to attack, but only against keyword vehicle and possibly monsterus creatures.

Brutal, but kunning!  
   
 
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