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 Klowny wrote:
Also, Nightbringer has fly... so can fight flyers?

Close combat weapons:

Automaton claws - ?
Cracking Tendrils - Sypder
Feeder mandibles - Scarabs?
Massive Forelimbs - ?????????????????????????? (potentially a misprint of star-god fists? or maybe trancendant's CCW)

The claws most likely belong to Spyders. Mandibles are Scarabs, and have that always wound on 5+ rule, while Massive Forelimbs are the CCWs of the Triarch Stalker. For Crackling Tendrils, I have no idea; the TCtan has star-god fists like the Deceiver. Perhaps a name for some vehicles' assault option?

So tried to put together a 2k necron list, man it's tiny. It's hard to get a good balance of melee and shooting as tight as the points are now. I erred on the side of shooting things, because even our best melee units seem pretty second string compared to things like khorne berserkers and hordes of bugs. At 2k I couldn't even fit in any neat stuff in like C'Tan or a Monolith (which now cost as much as an imperial knight). The one Gimmick I did manage to squeeze in was the 20 man warrior blob backed up by a now very expensive ghost ark. It's over in the army list forum.

Massive Forelimbs might be fun the Triarch Stalker.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oops, didn't see the above response.

Personally I want to see the Stalkers info the most, now.
What does it give out?
If dreads are supposed to be better this edition, what can we expect from ours?

On another note, I am eager to see what the dynasty rules will be. They seemed to have split up characters by dynasty keywords, which will limit choices a bit. Hopefully they are all balanced.

Hmm. Really very few good options for killing tough enemy models. On the other hand, far fewer tough enemy models.

Monstrous creatures and tough characters are the really scary things this edition. Not being able to tackle MCs or characters will cripple us entirely. To that end, I think we're basically forced to take Doom Scythes or Doomsday Arks - nothing else even comes CLOSE to doing enough damage.

Thoughts:
-All named HQs have, so far, been very underwhelming compared to other factions'. Conclusion: don't bother.
-Support units too expensive, troops terrible VS vehicles but v efficient vs MEQ; MSU troops, 1 "blob" for hiding characters
-Need to be able to deal with hordes; not possible to deal with 120 Ork Boyz or 1 Wraightknight with same units - so don't try
-C'tan looking pretty solid due to mortal wound output
-There's no way you're ever taking any force org chart other than a battalion
-Reanimation protocols don't exist. Don't even think about them existing. You won't ever roll against a good player
-We really need the Tesseract Vault and Triarch Stalker rules; I suspect both are near mandatory looking at sample lists.
-Crypteks likely have no options; Eldritch Lance is Szeras' staff, Aeon thingy is Orikan, they have no points so don't get your hopes up.

Sample of what I'm thinking:
HQ
Overlord, Warscythe - 112
Illuminor Szeras - 143

Troops
5 Immortals, Tesla - 85
12 Warriors - 144
10 Warriors - 120

Elites
C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer - 230
C'tan Shard of the Deceiver - 225
15 Flayed Ones - 315

Heavy Support
Doomsday Ark - 203
Doomsday Ark - 203

Flyers
Doom Scythe - 220

2k exactly. Okay, so it can't deal with anything particularly well, everything is incredibly squishy and it's unfocused. On the other hand, I'm struggling to do better; I could use Heavy Destroyers in place of Doomsday Arks and the Doom Scythe which gives me more firepower, however it also makes the army even easier to kill and marine players laugh at us with devastators/centurions. The flayed ones are literally just there to blob against assault units. I dunno, it feels very weak and very underpowered. If the enemy brings out any model with 20+ wounds, you might as well pack up. Maybe I'll try again later, but as it stands, I'm feeling quite glum.

Anyone seen Orikan's stats/abilities, yet? I'm really looking forward to including Monolith+Orikan+maybe a deciever+ a unit of wraiths + maybe Lychguard for using the most out of Monolith's gate and protecting Deciever+Orikan + gak ton of troops. Maybe sprinkle some Crypteks if that's doable. That looks pretty fun on paper.

Eyjio wrote:
Hmm. Really very few good options for killing tough enemy models. On the other hand, far fewer tough enemy models.

Monstrous creatures and tough characters are the really scary things this edition. Not being able to tackle MCs or characters will cripple us entirely. To that end, I think we're basically forced to take Doom Scythes or Doomsday Arks - nothing else even comes CLOSE to doing enough damage.

Thoughts:
-All named HQs have, so far, been very underwhelming compared to other factions'. Conclusion: don't bother.
-True, but all our good HQ's weren't the named ones. Our CCB looks very good, D/lord with the beefed up phylactery etc. We will have good HQ's, just not Zandrekh/Obryn. But they were only ever situationally good.
-Support units too expensive, troops terrible VS vehicles but v efficient vs MEQ; MSU troops, 1 "blob" for hiding characters
Its the same for every army, you need to focus the correct weaponry at the correct targets. Not many troops from any army are good against vehicles. We were always the best, due to guass, we still have gauss, but we have an ap modifier. Our basic guns hurt everything, just like every army, but our basic guns hurt everything better than every other army. Plus we want the opposite of MSU, 2x 10 man warrior squads definetly get 0 RP if being focused, a 20 man squad has a larger chance of getting it.
-Need to be able to deal with hordes; not possible to deal with 120 Ork Boyz or 1 Wraightknight with same units - so don't try
I've never really had a problem with hordes, even less now. Our basic gun gives a AP-1, horde armies will have t-shirt saves, being negated vs our rapid fire weapons. Since bigger squads of warriors is better by the looks of it, 40 rapid fire shots will decimate hordes. And thats one blob, of our basic troops, who have gotten cheaper this edition. And tesla is now assault 2, so now theres even more chances of getting those 6's.
-C'tan looking pretty solid due to mortal wound output
-There's no way you're ever taking any force org chart other than a battalion
-Reanimation protocols don't exist. Don't even think about them existing. You won't ever roll against a good player
Is it really that bad? So 1 squad of warriors gets focused down a turn, or 1 squad of immortals, means the others are at fighting strength for longer. It't not all doom and gloom
-We really need the Tesseract Vault and Triarch Stalker rules; I suspect both are near mandatory looking at sample lists.
-Crypteks likely have no options; Eldritch Lance is Szeras' staff, Aeon thingy is Orikan, they have no points so don't get your hopes up.
Probably not many choices no, but that doesnt really matter though considering what they do... They have an inherent chronometron 5++ against shooting (good for that big blob of 20 warriors you want around to continuously RP ) and a +1 to RP. And should be a cheap buff to a big squad of warriors.

Imagine if they were backed by a GA, feeding them more?

Sample of what I'm thinking:
HQ
Overlord, Warscythe - 112
Illuminor Szeras - 143

Troops
5 Immortals, Tesla - 85
12 Warriors - 144
10 Warriors - 120

Elites
C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer - 230
C'tan Shard of the Deceiver - 225
15 Flayed Ones - 315

Heavy Support
Doomsday Ark - 203
Doomsday Ark - 203

Flyers
Doom Scythe - 220

2k exactly. Okay, so it can't deal with anything particularly well, everything is incredibly squishy and it's unfocused. On the other hand, I'm struggling to do better; I could use Heavy Destroyers in place of Doomsday Arks and the Doom Scythe which gives me more firepower, however it also makes the army even easier to kill and marine players laugh at us with devastators/centurions. The flayed ones are literally just there to blob against assault units. I dunno, it feels very weak and very underpowered. If the enemy brings out any model with 20+ wounds, you might as well pack up. Maybe I'll try again later, but as it stands, I'm feeling quite glum.

I agree Doomsday Arks are going to come back to prominence.

But, imagine a Monolith deepstriking without scattering, and delivering a blob of 20 flayed ones right in the enemies face, who can charge that turn, and strike first?

Or a squad of 10 scytheguard, who can charge that wraithknight, hit first with 2 attacks @ S7, AP-4, D2 each. Each wound that wraithknight has is now falling back to his invlun of 5++, and remember once these things lose wounds they get significantly weaker.

Meanwhile the monolith is putting out alot of firepower, itself being capable of stripping a multitute of wounds of big stuff. Heavy 6 S8 AP-2 D3 damage.....

Plus we haven't seen what the pylons can do, nor any of the FW stuff. If whatever they changed the beam to is still as potent as it was, we will have the tools capable of killing the big stuff. What if aranthracites are good again, or Tomb Stalkers?

Our army has never had the same tools as other armies. Lets remember this. GW said they were ensuring every army had its playstyle represented. Ours always was very good close range firepower (check), on very resilient chassis (Our troop choices rock a 3+ save). Our CC was always slow but potent, its still very potent, but now its alot faster.

We cant have everything, we have some of the best shooting in the game, some of the most resilient models in the game, some of the best flyers in the game. Sure we dont have LoW, or the ability to customise units like other armies, but we don't need to, we've always got the job done. GW continuously say that lots of playtesting has gone in to ensure that the game is balanced (i have my doubts) but i do hold out hope that we are still quite viable.

There's also something promised in the pipeline of the developing narrative (all factions being promised some goodies). Empire have had their fair share. Silent king or Void dragon are interesting candidates for greatness to come. GW may have taken this into account when dishing out the power at this stage.

Ok here we go

I actually am liking the regular destroyers. No fire and move penalty and rerolls built in to a 2 shot, -3 AP weapon

Although it does specify units, for those players considering matched play, something to be aware of regarding Reanimation Protocols:

Wait, so we need to keep reinforcement points to reanimate at all? Am I reading that right?

Well, I guess my Necrons will actually just sit on a shelf then. That actually kills their flavour entirely.

The graph doesn't consider that you need to pay for your weapons separately. Heavy destroyers for instance cost 43+32 for a total of 75 points each.

Really nice to see this stuff in its entirely and in English. Destroyers have 3 wounds and Wraiths have 4 wounds. Overall it looks okay.

Deathmarks seem interesting. They aren't giving up their next shooting phase and you are getting an average of a hit per model if you can put them within 12. I'm also not sure if I am reading their weapon correctly but it says a mortal wound on a 6 PLUS any additional damage. Does that mean that they still need to roll a regular save for the wound inflicted? If yes, that seems pretty great. If not, their damage output seems questionable.

I highly doubt RP will need reinforcement points as it does not add to the squad size. I might be wrong, but my logic sais it won't. Btw, did anyone also notice how none of the characters have RP? Only the troops etc. If necron lords/OL's/Named characters etc die, they remain dead for sure.


EDIT: And something fun I thought of. Some of the vehicles (like the Ghost Ark, the Monolith and the Anni Barge) have the <Dynasty> key word. That's pretty important because it means crypteks can give those vehicles a 5++, which can be really helpful on such large pieces like the Monolith.

EDIT 2: Nope, my bad. It sais infantry.

Destroyers are looking pretty good, actually. They are fast, have a nice weapon, lots of wounds and still have their rerolls.
43 points a model isn't too bad.

Do the points values include basic wargear? Its not very clear.


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Eyjio wrote:
Wait, so we need to keep reinforcement points to reanimate at all? Am I reading that right?

Well, I guess my Necrons will actually just sit on a shelf then. That actually kills their flavour entirely.

No, it shouldn't. You aren't adding soldiers to the army, you are just bringing them back.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Destroyers are looking pretty good, actually. They are fast, have a nice weapon, lots of wounds and still have their rerolls.
43 points a model isn't too bad.

Do the points values include basic wargear? Its not very clear.

No, the points say excluding wargear. Destroyers are 63 per model, 75 for heavy destroyers. It's better to take 9 Praetorians than 5 Destroyers. The points are incredibly high and, as I showed earlier, you're not really gaining much for that cost.

You don't have as much range, damage or as many shots with praetorians though. Destroyers are better against heavier targets, and it will be easier to kite with them.
Not to mention that you won't be able to buff Praets as much, as they don't have the <dynasty> key word.

I must be losing my mind because I can't parse what the difference is between an ordinary Cryptek's 'Technomancer' ability and Szeras' 'Master Technomancer' ability.

 MoonlightSonata wrote:
I must be losing my mind because I can't parse what the difference is between an ordinary Cryptek's 'Technomancer' ability and Szeras' 'Master Technomancer' ability.

Technomancer is dynasty specific, Master Technomancer isn't.
Say you have Imotekh in your army, who's part of the Sautekh dynasty. He can buff Sautekh flayed ones, so you'd naturally want Sautekh flayed ones in your army to get the most mileage out of him.

You have a cryptek who's not part of the Sautekh dynasty. He cannot use Technomancer on those flayed ones, but if that cryptek was Seras, then he could due to the master technomancer rule.
It would also seem that technomancer does not work on Praetorians, as they do not have a <dynasty> specified.

Tomb blades. OMG.

3+/5++, 4 tesla shots per turn, or 4 gauss when in rapid fire. Ignoring cover.

Monolith doing D6 mortal wounds on a 4+ to charging units when half health and above. Awesome. I think this will be the star of most armies now. It is jam packed, has offensive and defensive capabilities, plus ways of getting around our limited movement. So happy, its the reason I started with crons! Such a cool vehicle.

Can't see why anyone would take a trancendant c'tan over the nightbinger/deceiver. Both are cheaper, and do more.

Tesseract Vault, 28W!!! It is expensive, and really, 2/3 c'tan powers are duds, the mortal wounds one is cool. But its tesla spheres can pump out the jam. So kinda underwhelming overall. Ill try it out, hopefully the powers are actually better in game than on paper.

Flayed ones are the same - 20 strong blob running out of an eternity gate, getting the charge. Delishious.

Illuminor Szerath! His mechanical augmentation can really make warriors scarier. 2+ to hit.

Ghost arks. So capacity is still 10. and only for warriors and characters. Boo. I cant remember if it applies to matched play or just the other two, (I'm 90% sure it does) but you dont have to take a full unit if you don't want, you just have to pay the points for a full unit regardless. So take a 9 man warrior unit chuck Szerath in there, floating gunship. It also allow's for RP rolls to be made at the end of the movement phase, so doubling up RP rolls it seems, as RP is made at the start of the turn. 20 man blob with a cryptek, 5++ and 4+ RP, backed up by a GA with another 9 warriors, the flayer array, and Szerath in there augmenting them all. Then you can do disembark and embark shenanigans if one squad drops really low >6 characters for instance, regen them back up and let the other 9 in the GA do the work.

The fabricator claw array is a bit ambiguous. It states that a vehicle can only be repaired once per game, yet most vehicles have living metal, which regains 1 wound per turn. I suppose living metal isnt considered 'repairing'? or else the claw array is useless?

2W praets and lychguard are good, more survivable now, as saves wont be negated anywhere near as much. I feel praets are the go for non monolith armies, as the speed is necessary, yet having a squad of scythe guard come out that eternity gate and charge. Yummo.

But the worst thing - Destroyer Lord. Hard nerf to his PE, now it only affects his to hits, and he is more suited to sitting back with this HD's and letting them reroll 1's to wound instead of the beatstick he used to be. Cant give him a 2+, but he does regen D3 with phlactery, which is worse overall. Sad face.

If wraiths have an armour save of 4+ wouldn't that mean that Grav weapons don't get any bonuses against them?

EDIT: Ignore me, it just says 3+ save (unless it makes a distinction between armour and invulnerable save)

Question on Reanimation Protocols and Technomancer...
How any model that has been removed from the board be within 3 inches of the Cryptek to benefit from the Technomancer rule?
I mean... if it has been removed, it isn't on the board?

Refers to the unit... Nevermind!

ok... so... can the overlord cause a unit of immortals to tripple-hit on 5+ (with tesla carbines)?
"add 1 to the to hit rolls"

bort123 wrote:
ok... so... can the overlord cause a unit of immortals to tripple-hit on 5+?
"add 1 to the to hit rolls"

With Tesla? Yep.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 MoonlightSonata wrote:
I must be losing my mind because I can't parse what the difference is between an ordinary Cryptek's 'Technomancer' ability and Szeras' 'Master Technomancer' ability.

Technomancer is dynasty specific, Master Technomancer isn't.
Say you have Imotekh in your army, who's part of the Sautekh dynasty. He can buff Sautekh flayed ones, so you'd naturally want Sautekh flayed ones in your army to get the most mileage out of him.

You have a cryptek who's not part of the Sautekh dynasty. He cannot use Technomancer on those flayed ones, but if that cryptek was Seras, then he could due to the master technomancer rule.
It would also seem that technomancer does not work on Praetorians, as they do not have a <dynasty> specified.

Got it, thanks. I've been used to Necrons being undifferentiated for 12 years so all these keyword shenanigans will take a bit of getting used to.

Also, why the hell is Trazyn listed as being Nihilakh? I thought his tomb world was Solemnace?

Thank you MoonlightSonata for the Necron pics. I am very hopeful for Necrons in 8th. We seem to work the same even if somethings have changed.

Kind of annoyed about match play though if we have to set aside points to activate RP. Be better off bring 2 units of warriors, immortals, flayed-ones, tomb blades etc then relying on RP if we pay to bring them back...

 Klowny wrote:
Tomb blades. OMG.

3+/5++, 4 tesla shots per turn, or 4 gauss when in rapid fire. Ignoring cover.

They're also 43 points base cost because they need to pay for both guns, or 34 with particle caster. You also can't take nebuloscope and shadowloom; if you take shieldvanes+shadowloom+tesla, they're 54 points per model. They're pretty bad honestly.

Odrankt wrote:
Thank you MoonlightSonata for the Necron pics. I am very hopeful for Necrons in 8th. We seem to work the same even if somethings have changed.

Kind of annoyed about match play though if we have to set aside points to activate RP. Be better off bring 2 units of warriors, immortals, flayed-ones, tomb blades etc then relying on RP if we pay to bring them back...

The more I ruminate on it the more I don't think the match play thing applies to us because it specifically mentions creating new units. We can't bring units back once they're wiped out and we have no capacity to create new units from scratch.

Eyjio wrote:
Wait, so we need to keep reinforcement points to reanimate at all? Am I reading that right?

Well, I guess my Necrons will actually just sit on a shelf then. That actually kills their flavour entirely.

I can say that adding models back to a unit is free in AoS. Setting up a new unit costs points. This says Units... not models. This is a non-issue.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MoonlightSonata wrote:

Odrankt wrote:
Thank you MoonlightSonata for the Necron pics. I am very hopeful for Necrons in 8th. We seem to work the same even if somethings have changed.

Kind of annoyed about match play though if we have to set aside points to activate RP. Be better off bring 2 units of warriors, immortals, flayed-ones, tomb blades etc then relying on RP if we pay to bring them back...

The more I ruminate on it the more I don't think the match play thing applies to us because it specifically mentions creating new units. We can't bring units back once they're wiped out and we have no capacity to create new units from scratch.

Yep... Units, not models.

Cool, I really would be angry if we couldn't at least do the one thing we're famous for.